What are the “hypotheticals” to which you you refer? I talk about unknowns. I’ve actually lost track of your argument. Are you saying we shouldn’t have fired Bobby? Are you saying “my” AD (I think he’s actually UofL’s AD) should not have paid him according to the contract signed by CBP and TJ? I remember your brilliant response was to harass Bobby into walking away with a smaller payout. Is that the argument? If so, that just isn’t decent behavior and something that I don’t think TJ would have ever done in that situation. You also are dealing in half equations. You never consider the impact on the program, financially and otherwise, to a continuing with Bobby. It’s not just a short term dollar calculation. Another season or two like 2018 could take a decade or more to recover from. What would that do to the next Adidas deal? Attendance? Number of TV appearances? Recruiting? Vince NQ had to act. TJ would havevdone the same thing.
Wasn't the popular narrative that U of L football coaches?...
- Thread starter zipp
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No, TJ knew the value of $14 million and how to recover from a mistake. This guy has no clue what a financial hole he's digging esp. when he can blame a situation on someone else.
He's living up/down to his credentials...
So you think TJ would have done something slimy like harass a guy so much he would take a lot less than the contract called for? I don’t know Jurich, but nothing in his conduct over 20 years leads me to believe he would do something like that. He saw what was happening with CSK and cut him loose. I think he would have done the same with Bobby to protect the program. The cost might have been softened a bit by the fact that we wouldn’t be paying TJ to go away, and the Pitino issue might have been resolved with less financial peril to the university. I just don’t see how TJ manages a different outcome.
This thread started as a discussion of U of L assistants easily getting football jobs elsewhere. As so often happens, you simply tried to derail it with your unfounded, hypothetical arguments...
How many times did Jurich pay many millions of dollars to get himself out of a problem? I wouldn't spend all day looking for that example...
I was pretty well on topic. Looks like you were the one pivoted early in the morning on Wednesday. Try again.
You didn’t respond. Your solution to the CBP problem seems to be the the AD should have harassed Bobby and made his life utterly miserable until he quit. If I’m wrong, please correct me. If I’m right, that has to be the dumbest idea ever. The answer to your question is that TJ never faced a problem like this, which is partially of his own making. As I’ve stated, I don’t think TJ was the type of man to conduct himself in the way you suggest, and I don’t think he was the type of AD to allow a marquee program to simply collapse. He would have had to swallow hard and pay Bobby off, the same way Vince NQ did. Whether he might have negotiated a different payout schedule is something we can’t answer, but he would have had to pay the full 14 mill. Vince NQ did what was necessary, and I don’t see what a TJ would have done differently.
Oh, I responded in a way that didn't involve characterizations of people with words like "slimy". Not that two wrongs make a right, but your point is ironic considering that the current regime was perfectly intent on characterizing Jurich as a sex predator in order to negotiate a better position WRT his buyout.
And my concept applied to "Vince" and not Jurich. My belief is that Jurich could have negotiated a far less painful exit for both Pitino and Petrino when needed because of the relationship he had with his coaches. That's only logical, and they no such relationship with "Vince". One more miscalculation on the part of clowns in their impulsiveness...
If you were a late comer, not my problem. Show up on time and stay on topic and don't accuse me of diverging. As far as debate, I'll obviously go in any direction a clown apologist wants to...
Chuck Smrt says hello. And are you really trying to lay the blame on Petrino's $14 million buyout on Tyra?
TJ: “Look Bobby, I gave your first chance to be a head coach. I forgave all your dalliances with other programs. I pulled you off the garbage heap and let you come back with all your baggage. You owe me. Just resign, and we can work out something in the 5-6 million dollar range for your exit”
CBP: “No”
TJ:”What about the relationship we have built up over the years”? Maybe, like 7-8 million. “
CBP: “A deal is a deal. 14 million”.
TJ: “Gee Bobby, this will make me look real bad. I extended you. Give me a break, OK, buddy? How about 10 million?”
CBP: “Nope. 14 million. Period.”
TJ: “”12 million?”
CBP: “14. Period. That was the deal we agreed to.”
TJ: “OK Bobby. This isn’t going to look good for us” What happened to the relationship we had?”
CBP:”We’ll always gave Paris”.
U of L spent a modest amount on the NCAA investigation, nothing close to Petrino's buyout.
IIRC, he's the guy who wrote the check. The same way he's the guy who took down banners. Evidently, the guy's not responsible for anything he does...
I’m not accusing you of diverging. You did diverge plain and simple. Not that I can blame you. Your first opinion in this thread was especially bad.
That’s what would have happened, like it or not. You can face reality or continue to live in a dream world, where somehow Tom Jurich does what he cannot realistically do, and what no one else can do either. Bobby had NO REASON to cut some deal not to his advantage, TJ did not know how to do Jedi mind tricks.
Jurich had a relationship with these coaches, and "Vince" does not. "Vince" doesn't know how to deal with high profile coaches--he's never done that in his life. I'll wager he's also never had to deal with a multimillion dollar employee.
"Vince" is limited as an AD, and we knew that coming in. We HOPED for something more, but we're getting what we bargained for. He was and is simply a clown show 'yes' man with results to back that up...
For the record, it took you five pages to finally address the topic. Nice work...
There’s some truth in what you are saying about TJ having a relationship with the coaches. One can also argue that closer relationship helped clouded his judgment in dealing with Pitino, just like it clouded his judgment dealing with Krags.
No basis to believe that somehow that magical “relationship” would cause Bobby to leave millions on the table. Why? Gratitude? Are you kidding? What planet are you living on, Zipp? Vince NQ is limited, I agree. The BoT was in a rush to get rid of TJ, and grabbed a guy with a name. In this case, however, he was handcuffed, just as TJ would have been, by circumstance and a contract. Vince NQ did just what TJ would have done - there were really no good options.
You've made almost 20 posts in this thread since straying off topic. If you don't like the topic, don't post...
Again, the evidence doesn't support the "handcuffed" Jurich theory. In his 20 years on the job, he's never been handcuffed before, financially or otherwise. Jurich consistently made good decisions and navigated rough waters. He wouldn't have casually paid $14 million to get himself out of situation when he had other options.
Not to mention, I don't believe the spiral down with Petrino was unrelated to "Vince" being here. It's a problem that magnified...
You strayed off topic which is fine because your first topic was laughable. I’m fine that you strayed off topic.
He never paid out 14 mill before because he never put himself in that position before. I assume from your arguments that you endorse “harass until he quits” and “make him miserable in his job” strategy to get Bobby to leave for less. I also assume that you think TJ would have employed such a tactic. Do you think that Tom Jurich is that type of man? I know if no evidence to support that. Tom Jurich was a coaches AD because he didn’t play those kind of games. I know of no example of his not honoring a coaches contract. As regards Vince NQ having a hand in the downward spiral of the football program, that is just silly. Bobby Petrino was in charge of the program and was entirely responsible for the product on and off the field. If CBP stopped coaching because he didn’t like the AD, that’s his lack of professionalism and personal honor, not Vince NQ’s.
The problem that sacking Jurich created for the clown show is they had to manage suddenly without him. He didn't back himself into any corners, nor did he back U of L into any as long as he was AD. All bets were off with an AD replacement of any caliber, much less a guy with Tyra's credentials. Those were huge shoes to fill, and "Vince" is showing that, for example, by paying $14 million to bail himself out of a situation.
That was what I would have advised "Vince" to do, and he's qualified to perform headhunting; he's done it multiple times already. He could have, but I never said Jurich would have had to do that. I think the situations for Petrino AND Pitino would have been managed with far less consequences by Jurich.
However, that couldn't have been done quickly and by anyone other than Jurich. The clown show couldn't allow that because Jurich was their primary target, and they saw opportunity for themselves. They just underestimated the difficulty and the results.
I didn't say "Vince" caused the downward spiral. Like so many important things U of L related, his primary problem is he can't stop or influence anything. He just supervises the demise for $75,000 per month. Wonderful...
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Then don't bring up the topic.
Or simply post in other threads with topics you like. Don't whine then forget why you're whining...
Just how was Jurich to accomplish this miracle? You seem to think that he would simply wave his hand and turn water to wine, or in Bobby’s case, an arrogant a-hole into a humble, grateful human being. TJ was not magical. He was smart, driven and had a clear vision. But he was not a magician. You seem to trust that if it had been Jurich, then somehow, everything would have worked out. I’ve pretty much laid out the “negotiation” above, and there is really is no way around it. Neither Vince NQ nor TJ had any leverage in negotiations. None. If you can tell me exactly what TJ would have done differently, please share. Would TJ have magically “influenced” the football team last year?
You are wasting your time BTC. Petrino could do a interview stating the obvious - that in no circumstances regardless of who the AD is would he be leaving money on the table that he was contractually owed - and it wouldn’t make any difference to “zipp”.
If you enjoy argument for it's own sake (I do) then Zipp can be fun.
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The reality is any coach that knows he is done won't negotiate his buy out. You are living in Jurich fantasy land if you truly believe that. The one's that agreed to smaller buyouts did it on their own because they had character, the guy at Oregon State and Richt. Richt could have put the screws to Miami but didn't. There is no way Bobby was accepting anything less and you know it...he definitely isn't cut that way.
The only option you have is to harass Petrino until he gives up and walks.
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Whatever relationship Jurich had with the coaches goes out the window when we are talking about millions of dollars. If it did come down to Jurich firing Petrino whatever past "friendship" they had goes out the window when one friend is trying to fire the other without paying him the 14 mil he is owed. I'm still not sure that Petrino and Jurich were really that great of friends. They didn't speak for years after Petrino jumped ship and Jurich blamed Petrino for the mess left behind (some truth to it) and had Petrino been able to ride a motorcycle properly or Strong not jumped ship we would not be talking aobut Jurich and Petrino's relationship. Petrino coming back was a business decision plain and simple. The fans wanted him back originally and Petrino had no better options than us at the time.
You said that Jurich never backed himself into a corner but he did so with Petrino's contract. If he hadn't been fired it would him instead of Tyra firing Petrino. If he chose to keep him much longer Jurich would have been facing the wrath of the fans. Had he chose to wait so that he and Petrino could get in a multi-year pissing match while the fans and players suffered Jurich wouldn't have had much support left by the time it was over.
Again, find me examples over 20 years where Jurich dug himself multimillion dollar holes he couldn't climb out of. There aren't any.
What makes a difference to 'zipp' is when you guys can find facts to support your arguments. And not just offer opinions and hypotheticals. U of L has a long history and has generated plenty of data. It doesn't change the analytics when you can't find data to support your position...
Your premise is wrong. Ask Petrino if he thinks he can still coach and cares about his image, reputation, and legacy. That's the biggest part of what "done" means...
You negotiate and present Petrino with options and consequences. "Vince" had no relationship with him and simply couldn't wait to clear the decks.
Impulsiveness comes at a cost, often a huge cost...
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