UK would be lucky to finish top 6 in ACC

[JohnKBA]

Come on man, don't be like that. Yeah, I hate it. Guess I will just lean on that 23-15 overall record between us.

Look, there is no doubt that UK would be in the hunt for an ACC crown or two; but, to continue to go down that line of thinking with regard to SEC middle of the pack teams is crazy. It's UK and no one else for years until UF arrived, left and came back to some success. I would love for UK to be in the ACC. Would be an insane basketball conference.

Man, I am agreeing with you guys - the SEC is camel piss. I hate the SEC because we get boring basketball games and we get drilled in football. We'd be a much better ACC fit across the board.

And yeah, you got me on the 23-15 record. I have my doubts that we can get it back to .500 in my lifetime. It could easily go the other way. Cheers man.

 

[kyjeff1]

Gotcha, we didn't have any Kentucky fans on this board during the Gillispie era...

LMAO, no, I didn't even want to get on the internet at all during those two years. Those were some really dark days there.

 

[kyjeff1]

You are right. When our team isn't having big success we know when to keep our mouth shut. It doesn't mean we don't have any basketball knowledge.

You are correct, but as far as you go, I've formed my current opinion by reading your other posts.

 

[kyjeff1]

Unfortunately for your argument, it isn't the transitive property. Clemson actually is undefeated versus SEC teams. SEC basketball OOC record IS horrid when compared to other power 5 conferences. It isn't like the transitive property where if Wake is better than Carolina because Wake beat U of L who beat Duke who beat Carolina. That is the transitive property and that isn't what happened. Clemson is undefeated against middle of the pack SEC teams that UK fans championed as being on par with middle of the pack ACC teams. Unfortunately, Wake isn't middle of the pack and neither is Clemson.

So we're comparing games that occurred in November/December, to games being played now? Okay.
Also, the Clemson win over South Carolina has an asterisk, South Carolina didn't have Thornwell, they are a totally different team with Thornwell.
However, Clemson won those games (South Carolina, UGA and Bama) , and if they played again, I think Clemson would probably win 2 of them, but one of those wins (Georgia) would be very close. I think those teams are all pretty evenly matched.
Where the SEC falls short is upper tier type teams. The ACC has 5 each year, the SEC usually only has 1 or 2.

 

[SchmidtyNole]

You are correct, but as far as you go, I've formed my current opinion by reading your other posts.

What have I said? That Kentucky wouldn't win with its C game consistently in the ACC, that Wake is better than Georgia, Tennessee, Vandy and South Carolina and that the ACC is much better than the SEC. Pretty much the same thing most everybody else on this board has said other than the two UK fans.

 

[SchmidtyNole]

Based on what? Your opinion? The numbers don't agree with you.

RPI Rankings:

South Carolina #28
Vanderbilt #48
Georgia #50
Tennessee #80

Wake Forest #40

And you were saying the numbers don't agree with me? Maybe you have a point with South Carolina in RPI numbers. But certainly not with the other three.

 

[kyjeff1]

RPI Rankings:

South Carolina #28
Vanderbilt #48
Georgia #50
Tennessee #80

Wake Forest #40

And you were saying the numbers don't agree with me? Maybe you have a point with South Carolina in RPI numbers. But certainly not with the other three.

You do realize that those numbers fluctuate daily right? Do you understand how those work? UT certainly dropped, but you are trying to act like there's a huge difference between 40, 48 and 50, there's not and those numbers can flip flop in a hurry.
So I'm not sure where you were going with that, you basically proved my point.
Thanks.

 

[94tarheel]

So we're comparing games that occurred in November/December, to games being played now? Okay.
Also, the Clemson win over South Carolina has an asterisk, South Carolina didn't have Thornwell, they are a totally different team with Thornwell.
However, Clemson won those games (South Carolina, UGA and Bama) , and if they played again, I think Clemson would probably win 2 of them, but one of those wins (Georgia) would be very close. I think those teams are all pretty evenly matched.
Where the SEC falls short is upper tier type teams. The ACC has 5 each year, the SEC usually only has 1 or 2.

Really, like you guys are not crowing about your only top 25 rank OOC victory? I believe it was played in December as well. As you say...okay. Man, forget all the caveats and crap, are you implying the chickens are a one man team? Isn't injuries apart of the game? If we go that route, put an asterisk next to the UNC victory since Theo Pinson was out. He was a starter and one of our better perimeter defenders and we still lost by 3 against a full strength UK team full of talent. And yes, Clemson won those games and anything regarding how it would turn out if this happened or this player was available; all speculation with no amount of fact to support a future outcome. Yes, the SEC falls way short of upper tier teams. Basically it is you guys and no one else. UF, LSU, Ark are either above average to average. It has been a while since any teams not names UK have stepped up to elite level for any length of time and stayed there for any amount of time.

 

[Cal4Pres.]

UGA would beat Wake. Regardless of all the numbers. I think the style they play and how they play would stops Wake's O. Neutral court UGA 6 out 10 all day IMO. It's almost pointless arguing though subjectively, anything can happen when the ball rolls out, hell a team like IUPUI could have its day haha.

 

[94tarheel]

You do realize that those numbers fluctuate daily right? Do you understand how those work? UT certainly dropped, but you are trying to act like there's a huge difference between 40, 48 and 50, there's not and those numbers can flip flop in a hurry.
So I'm not sure where you were going with that, you basically proved my point.
Thanks.

Dude stop. There is a difference. Wake has a better chance of increasing that number since a large portion of the ACC is an asset W and not a bad lose where in the SEC, unless you get a W against UK, where is the benefit and certainly a lose to anyone not named UK or UF (at this moment) is a bad loss.

 

[94tarheel]

UGA would beat Wake. Regardless of all the numbers. I think the style they play and how they play would stops Wake's O. Neutral court UGA 6 out 10 all day IMO. It's almost pointless arguing though subjectively, anything can happen when the ball rolls out, hell a team like IUPUI could have its day haha.

 

[JohnKBA]

Nothing matters until next week. Nothing. There isn't a sport in the world where the regular season matters less than NCAA basketball. Nobody watches anything all year, then the entire country watches the tourney. There's a reason for that. Clemson v USC in December is nothing. Kentucky v Louisville in December is nothing. Nobody outside those markets cares. The NHL gets better ratings.

 

[kyjeff1]

Really, like you guys are not crowing about your only top 25 rank OOC victory? I believe it was played in December as well. As you say...okay. Man, forget all the caveats and crap, are you implying the chickens are a one man team? Isn't injuries apart of the game? If we go that route, put an asterisk next to the UNC victory since Theo Pinson was out. He was a starter and one of our better perimeter defenders and we still lost by 3 against a full strength UK team full of talent. And yes, Clemson won those games and anything regarding how it would turn out if this happened or this player was available; all speculation with no amount of fact to support a future outcome. Yes, the SEC falls way short of upper tier teams. Basically it is you guys and no one else. UF, LSU, Ark are either above average to average. It has been a while since any teams not names UK have stepped up to elite level for any length of time and stayed there for any amount of time.

Actually yes, South Carolina is a one man team, without Thornwell they are very average. I'm not kidding.
Also, putting Florida in the same group with LSU and Arkansas is just wrong, they certainly are an upper tier team (not upper tier program) and, minus a couple of years, have proven that they deserve to be mentioned as an upper tier team.
If we are going to count Virginia, Louisville and whatever other team is having a great year, not named Duke or UNC**, than we would certainly count Florida among that group.
I have to believe you would throw Notre Dame and/or FSU in there this year.
That's a lot of stout teams, but it also just means more losses for each team, while they're not bad losses, they're still losses and appear to actually be hurting the top teams in that league. The ACC might miss out on a 1 seed this year.

 

[kyjeff1]

Dude stop. There is a difference. Wake has a better chance of increasing that number since a large portion of the ACC is an asset W and not a bad lose where in the SEC, unless you get a W against UK, where is the benefit and certainly a lose to anyone not named UK or UF (at this moment) is a bad loss.

Those rankings are close enough, at this moment, to say that all of those teams are very close in terms of talent and results, yeah, Wake's numbers can go up, but they can also go down.
They are at 40 AFTER the win over UL on their home court.
Now, they play @ Va Tech on Saturday, VT is not exactly a numbers bumping program right now and if Wake loses that game, which they will, their ranking is going to drop.
You can sit here and kick and scream and argue that their is some huge difference between those 4 teams, but there isn't and you look like a fool for saying otherwise.

 

[kyjeff1]

UGA would beat Wake. Regardless of all the numbers. I think the style they play and how they play would stops Wake's O. Neutral court UGA 6 out 10 all day IMO. It's almost pointless arguing though subjectively, anything can happen when the ball rolls out, hell a team like IUPUI could have its day haha.

I would actually like to see that game with a healthy Maten, I think he's still out with a strained knee.
I love watching John Collins though too, that kid can score.

 

[SchmidtyNole]

Nothing matters until next week. Nothing. There isn't a sport in the world where the regular season matters less than NCAA basketball. Nobody watches anything all year, then the entire country watches the tourney. There's a reason for that. Clemson v USC in December is nothing. Kentucky v Louisville in December is nothing. Nobody outside those markets cares. The NHL gets better ratings.

BS. The regular season matters in College Basketball. It's just that there isn't as much hanging on each individual game like there is in College Football. But to say it doesn't matter is ridiculous because if you don't win enough regular season games you don't make the tournament or you don't get a very good seed. I think people especially tune in during February when the Bubble Teams are trying to make it in and the Locks are trying to improve their seeding.

 

[SchmidtyNole]

Those rankings are close enough, at this moment, to say that all of those teams are very close in terms of talent and results, yeah, Wake's numbers can go up, but they can also go down.
They are at 40 AFTER the win over UL on their home court.
Now, they play @ Va Tech on Saturday, VT is not exactly a numbers bumping program right now and if Wake loses that game, which they will, their ranking is going to drop.
You can sit here and kick and scream and argue that their is some huge difference between those 4 teams, but there isn't and you look like a fool for saying otherwise.

Lol!! VT is a Top 40 RPI team (#32 to be exact) and Wake plays them on the road. Wake will get a pretty good bump if they beat VT on the road. And if Wake loses it isn't a bad loss. Do you check the numbers before you post?

 

[Morgantown Card]

 

[94tarheel]

I understand the need to defend the SEC, no one wants to be associated with such piss poor performances in a sport. The only benefit is UK's ability to play descent teams OOC and win those games. UF being lumped in with LSU is one thing but UF and Ark are extremely similar. Both have climb that NCAA mountain and both have fallen off and have not been able to maintain any semblance of their past limited glory. Again, above average to average programs. The saving grace for UF is the back to back titles.

 

[kyjeff1]

Lol!! VT is a Top 40 RPI team (#32 to be exact) and Wake plays them on the road. Wake will get a pretty good bump if they beat VT on the road. And if Wake loses it isn't a bad loss. Do you check the numbers before you post?

You really don't get it. You should just stop hitting that red "Post Reply" button. Stick to the pigskin man.

 

[kyjeff1]

I understand the need to defend the SEC, no one wants to be associated with such piss poor performances in a sport. The only benefit is UK's ability to play descent teams OOC and win those games. UF being lumped in with LSU is one thing but UF and Ark are extremely similar. Both have climb that NCAA mountain and both have fallen off and have not been able to maintain any semblance of their past limited glory. Again, above average to average programs. The saving grace for UF is the back to back titles.

Yeah, Florida hasn't been to any recent final fours or anything.
So hey, what is Georgia Tech's rating? Where do they fit in?
Again, comparing Arkansas and Florida is something you say when you are ill informed. Arkansas had a few good years in the mid 90's, haven't been anything since then, Florida has sustained success from 2000, when they were in the title game, through this year. They were in the FF in 2014, you know, when the SEC filled half of the FF field.
Also, for being such a crap league, the SEC isn't very far behind the ACC in national titles. The addition of UL and Syracuse added 4 titles to your tally, but, none of them occurred when those teams were part of the ACC, so in reality, the ACC has 1 or 2 more titles. Shouldn't it be more than that?

 

[shadow force]

So we're comparing games that occurred in November/December, to games being played now? Okay.

I guess you think Uk's win over UNC shouldn't count then or at the very least shouldn't mean much right?
Edit Plus they had a key player out.

 

[earsky]

You really don't get it.

What doesn't he get?Please elaborate.

 

[earsky]

Virginia Tech,with an rpi of 34 and a 15-1 record at home,isn't a bad loss for anyone(at their place).

 

[94tarheel]

Yeah, Florida hasn't been to any recent final fours or anything.
So hey, what is Georgia Tech's rating? Where do they fit in?
Again, comparing Arkansas and Florida is something you say when you are ill informed. Arkansas had a few good years in the mid 90's, haven't been anything since then, Florida has sustained success from 2000, when they were in the title game, through this year. They were in the FF in 2014, you know, when the SEC filled half of the FF field.
Also, for being such a crap league, the SEC isn't very far behind the ACC in national titles. The addition of UL and Syracuse added 4 titles to your tally, but, none of them occurred when those teams were part of the ACC, so in reality, the ACC has 1 or 2 more titles. Shouldn't it be more than that?

13 (ACC) to 11 (SEC). Four teams (UNC, Duke, Maryland and NC State) vs three teams (UK, UF and Ark). Thank God for UK, huh. So basically UF= NC State, Ark = Maryland. That was quite an accomplishment for the SEC in 2014 sorta like last season when the ACC dominated the tournament. You know, 6 teams in the sweet sixteen, 4 teams in the elite eight, 2 teams in the Final Four and 1 playing for the championship. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that one of the best teams, U of L, sat out the tourney and the committee did overloaded some regions with ACC teams so that it wouldn't be an all ACC Final Four. You guys do realize that an all ACC Final Four will occur in the near future. But to get back to your point; yes, that was quite an accomplishment for the SEC to be half of the Final Four.

 

[kyjeff1]

Virginia Tech,with an rpi of 34 and a 15-1 record at home,isn't a bad loss for anyone(at their place).

It will still drop Wake's ranking, if they lose, even if it's one or two places it'll tighten those teams up because Vandy plays Florida on Saturday, what do you think is going to happen to their ranking if they win that game?
THAT'S what he doesn't get.

 

[kyjeff1]

13 (ACC) to 11 (SEC). Four teams (UNC, Duke, Maryland and NC State) vs three teams (UK, UF and Ark). Thank God for UK, huh. So basically UF= NC State, Ark = Maryland. That was quite an accomplishment for the SEC in 2014 sorta like last season when the ACC dominated the tournament. You know, 6 teams in the sweet sixteen, 4 teams in the elite eight, 2 teams in the Final Four and 1 playing for the championship. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that one of the best teams, U of L, sat out the tourney and the committee did overloaded some regions with ACC teams so that it wouldn't be an all ACC Final Four. You guys do realize that an all ACC Final Four will occur in the near future. But to get back to your point; yes, that was quite an accomplishment for the SEC to be half of the Final Four.

Exactly, but the narrative here is that the SEC sucks as a conference, well, than why does the SEC have ONLY 2 fewer titles than the ACC? Why does the SEC have more titles that the BIG10, BIG12 and BIG EAST?
Don't tell me most of UK's titles occurred back in the day when parity was low, that just means it was easier for EVERYONE to win. It's much tougher now.
So, the ACC is a basketball conference and the SEC is a football first conference, in my opinion, the SEC is pretty freaking good in the NCAAT considering 90% of the schools in the conference put very little into the sport.

 

[SchmidtyNole]

It will still drop Wake's ranking, if they lose, even if it's one or two places it'll tighten those teams up because Vandy plays Florida on Saturday, what do you think is going to happen to their ranking if they win that game?
THAT'S what he doesn't get.

You twisted my words. I acknowledged that Wake would drop somewhat. I said they wouldn't drop the way you would when you take a bad loss. But again like you said they would only drop a couple of slots. If it's a bad loss then you might drop 10-12 spots. As for Vandy, I think it will be a moot point because I don't see Vandy beating Florida again on Saturday.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

Throw a bunch of middling teams up in the air who knows which one would land on top.

Not sure why anybody is talking about Vandy. Thread headline is not "Nerds won't even make the NIT if they don't heat up in the SEC tourney" but knock yourselves out.

 

[Cue Card]

Exactly, but the narrative here is that the SEC sucks as a conference,

I don't think the SEC sucks from team 1 to team 4. I think the SEC sucks from team 5 thru team 14.

The top 4 teams are decent basketball teams in the SEC. Of those top 4, only 1 really has a chance to make a run towards the final 4 IMO and that's UofK.

The ACC has 4 or more who could make a final 4 run.

JMO

 

[SchmidtyNole]

I don't think the SEC sucks from team 1 to team 4. I think the SEC sucks from team 5 thru team 14.

The top 4 teams are decent basketball teams in the SEC. Of those top 4, only 1 really has a chance to make a run towards the final 4 IMO and that's UofK.

The ACC has 4 or more who could make a final 4 run.

JMO

Your point is going to be reflected in the number of NCAAT bids. The SEC will get 4 or 5 bids while the ACC should get 9 or 10. The difference in the ACC is there are more opportunities to lose if you are off your game.

This is a pretty good link to compare the conferences.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebas.../breakdown/2016/ACC/atlantic-coast-conference

The ACC is the number 1 RPI conference in the country while the SEC is #5.

The ACC is 18-17 in Non-Conference games vs the RPI Top 50 while the SEC is 10-34 in Non-Conference games vs the RPI Top 50.

The ACC is 43-26 in Non-Conference games vs the RPI Top 100 while the SEC is 28-45 in Non-Conference games vs the RPI Top 100.

What those records tell me is there is more strength from 5 through 15 in the ACC than there is 5 through 14 in the SEC. The Top 4 in the ACC and SEC are fairly comparable. But in the ACC there are more legit opportunities to lose to teams in the middle to bottom of the conference than there are in the SEC.

 

[kyjeff1]

You twisted my words. I acknowledged that Wake would drop somewhat. I said they wouldn't drop the way you would when you take a bad loss. But again like you said they would only drop a couple of slots. If it's a bad loss then you might drop 10-12 spots. As for Vandy, I think it will be a moot point because I don't see Vandy beating Florida again on Saturday.

You don't think Vanderbilt will beat Florida tomorrow? I'll take that bet all day long.

 

[94tarheel]

Exactly, but the narrative here is that the SEC sucks as a conference, well, than why does the SEC have ONLY 2 fewer titles than the ACC? Why does the SEC have more titles that the BIG10, BIG12 and BIG EAST?
Don't tell me most of UK's titles occurred back in the day when parity was low, that just means it was easier for EVERYONE to win. It's much tougher now.
So, the ACC is a basketball conference and the SEC is a football first conference, in my opinion, the SEC is pretty freaking good in the NCAAT considering 90% of the schools in the conference put very little into the sport.

It's all good. You have to hang your hat on something. UK, UF and Ark winning NC championships means the SEC is superior in basketball. Just like Bama winning the national championship in football equates to UK being superior in football. Talk about the transitive property of sports.

 

[kyjeff1]

I don't think the SEC sucks from team 1 to team 4. I think the SEC sucks from team 5 thru team 14.

The top 4 teams are decent basketball teams in the SEC. Of those top 4, only 1 really has a chance to make a run towards the final 4 IMO and that's UofK.

The ACC has 4 or more who could make a final 4 run.

JMO

I can agree with that, but I think Florida, with the right path, has the goods to get to a FF as well.

 

[kyjeff1]

It's all good. You have to hang your hat on something. UK, UF and Ark winning NC championships means the SEC is superior in basketball. Just like Bama winning the national championship in football equates to UK being superior in football. Talk about the transitive property of sports.

LOL, what?

 

[SchmidtyNole]

You don't think Vanderbilt will beat Florida tomorrow? I'll take that bet all day long.

No I don't. But we'll see.

 

[shadow force]

So we're comparing games that occurred in November/December, to games being played now? Okay.
Also, the Clemson win over South Carolina has an asterisk, South Carolina didn't have Thornwell, they are a totally different team with Thornwell.

I guess you think Uk's win over UNC shouldn't count then or at the very least shouldn't mean much right?
Plus UNC also had a key player out.

I see you don't want to tackle this, kyjeff, as you ignored the response from the other poster as well as mine. In your own words Uk's win over UNC shouldn't count or mean much at all because it was played in December, right? At the very least Uk's win "has an asterisk" as UNC was missing a key player, right? I can understand you trying to ignore your own words here because it severely lessens Uk's best win of the season and you don't want to look like hypocrite by applying your "rules" to other team's wins but not to your own.

 

[94tarheel]

What those records tell me is there is more strength from 5 through 15 in the ACC than there is 5 through 14 in the SEC. The Top 4 in the ACC and SEC are fairly comparable. But in the ACC there are more legit opportunities to lose to teams in the middle to bottom of the conference than there are in the SEC.

Sorry, have to disagree with you on that. The top 4 of the ACC is comparable to UK and that is it. UF, USC and Vandy are not even comparable to the Noles this season. No way those three are comparable to U of L, Duke, UVa, UNC, ND and FSU.

 

[SchmidtyNole]

Sorry, have to disagree with you on that. The top 4 of the ACC is comparable to UK and that is it. UF, USC and Vandy are not even comparable to the Noles this season. No way those three are comparable to U of L, Duke, UVa, UNC, ND and FSU.

I actually agree with you especially considering that two of the better SEC teams are Florida and South Carolina and Florida lost to us while South Carolina lost to Clemson on their home floor. Also, we beat a team that a couple of the better teams in the SEC lost to. We beat Minnesota (best team in the Big 10) while South Carolina and Arkansas lost to Minnesota. And we aren't even close to the best team in the ACC. This is not a reflection of UK. UK is legit. I wish UK were in the ACC. But I thought I would throw kyjeff1 a bone on the conference argument. Lol!

 

[Cue Card]

I can agree with that, but I think Florida, with the right path, has the goods to get to a FF as well.

Yet you think Vanderbilt will beat Florida again. LOL. OK. Lets be brutally honest here. UofK is the only real threat to make a run to the final 4 out of the SEC, and that's based on the talent alone. Monk and Fox are one of the the better back court duos in the country, and we all know strong guard play is essential to a strong post season run. UofL has that. Several teams have that all over the country.