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Senior Night attendance magic number: 17,084...

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I used to have season tix but stopped when RP/TJ was here and we were doing well.
I didnt stop because of ho's, date rapes or stripped titles.
I stopped because the damn prices got too high including the "donation".
Its cheaper for me to buy tix thru Ticketmaster for the games I want to see.
 
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kentuckyshame said:
Call me a glutton for punishment, but what is your reasoning for the attendance drop?
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Well, I can tell you what it wasn't...
  • Dissatisfaction with U of L basketball dating back to 2017 and prior. No one who has stopped going to games says that. And the folks in that era are long gone.
  • The national trend. 1% average annual decline is the national trend. The "hockey stick" down 20% is NOT the national trend.
So, I'll kick it back over to you. What else has changed?
 
CardVille said:
I used to have season tix but stopped when RP/TJ was here and we were doing well.
I didnt stop because of ho's, date rapes or stripped titles.
I stopped because the damn prices got too high including the "donation"...
Click to expand...
Everyone had their cost threshold and when that reality kicked in. It didn't occur for thousands of fans at one time.

I stopped regularly paying for season tickets when we moved to Bailout Arena for many of the reasons you cite. That was in 2010. I wasn't waiting seven years for thousands of other people to join me. What happened seven years later was an EVENT, not a PROCESS. Those are two different things...
 
Knucklehank1 said:
Just as I expected...another deflection. Coach Pitino must be so proud. The Ole Miss attendance has dropped post-NCAA troubles. Just like they have at Baylor, Syracuse, USC. Seems that NCAA infractions have a negative impact on attendance. Or perhaps all these fanbases are just mad at their ADs.
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None of those examples compare in magnitude to ours. You're just calling them examples to support your argument. We're unique...
 
zipp said:
None of those examples compare in magnitude to ours. You're just calling them examples to support your argument. We're unique...
Click to expand...

No, they are fair examples. Attendance dropped post-scandal and hasn’t recovered at any of them. The big difference is that we had the sanctions and then had another scandal dropped on top of that. Unfortunately there isn’t a lot of empirical evidence for a multiple year, multiple scandal program. Regardless it’s clear that having NCAA sanctions negatively effects attendance.
 
zipp said:
Well, I can tell you what it wasn't...
  • Dissatisfaction with U of L basketball dating back to 2017 and prior. No one who has stopped going to games says that. And the folks in that era are long gone.
  • The national trend. 1% average annual decline is the national trend. The "hockey stick" down 20% is NOT the national trend.
So, I'll kick it back over to you. What else has changed?
Click to expand...

Too easy, please give your specific reason for the attendance drop. It’s easy for someone to cut down on other people’s theories, especially when you don’t state your own.
 
Knucklehank1 said:
No, they are fair examples. Attendance dropped post-scandal and hasn’t recovered at any of them. The big difference is that we had the sanctions and then had another scandal dropped on top of that. Unfortunately there isn’t a lot of empirical evidence for a multiple year, multiple scandal program. Regardless it’s clear that having NCAA sanctions negatively effects attendance.
Click to expand...
I am going to weigh in on that. If the fear of sanctions negatively affects attendance wouldn’t the athletic/marketing department be sensitive to that and lower prices or provide incentive packages instead of increasing ticket prices?
 
Knucklehank1 said:
No, they are fair examples. Attendance dropped post-scandal and hasn’t recovered at any of them. The big difference is that we had the sanctions and then had another scandal dropped on top of that. Unfortunately there isn’t a lot of empirical evidence for a multiple year, multiple scandal program. Regardless it’s clear that having NCAA sanctions negatively effects attendance.
Click to expand...
In order for your examples to support your explanation, all of these plots--except for "NCAA Basketball"--should look similar. And they do not...

Select-Program-Attendance-Comparsion.jpg
 
kentuckyshame said:
Too easy, please give your specific reason for the attendance drop. It’s easy for someone to cut down on other people’s theories, especially when you don’t state your own.
Click to expand...
I've dismissed the two popular ones. The remaining event-related possibilities are...
  • People are unhappy with the basketball coach and/or this specific team.
  • People are unhappy with something else that occurred at the same time.
Just as I don't hear people say they're staying from basketball now because of the old regime, very few people admit they don't like Chris Mack--and that's irrespective of recent losses. So it must something else.

And the only other event that occurred in 2017 was the clown takeover. By the way, even if people don't like Mack, that still falls at the feet of clowns. Nor does it appear based on recent attendance numbers that people think the real clowns are gone, i.e, Gruesome, Postel at al. There must be the ongoing perception of clown behavior.

And your theory?...
 
nccardfan said:
I am going to weigh in on that. If the fear of sanctions negatively affects attendance wouldn’t the athletic/marketing department be sensitive to that and lower prices or provide incentive packages instead of increasing ticket prices?
Click to expand...

Ticket prices have been lowered and incentive plans have been utilized.

Once people leave it’s tough to get them back, especially at those prices. A lot of these folks have been going to games for years. Then they stay home and realize that watching the game from home isn’t so bad. So it’s tough to pull them back.
 
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Knucklehank1 said:
Ticket prices have been lowered and incentive plans have been utilized.

Once people leave it’s tough to get them back, especially at those prices. A lot of these folks have been going to games for years. Then they stay home and realize that watching the game from home isn’t so bad. So it’s tough to pull them back.
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That’s not exactly true. Two years ago I bought a mini plan 6 games for reasonable price. This year they offered a mini ACC plan but it was almost double what I paid for 2 years ago, hence I decided to go to the games I wanted through Stubhub or TM. As I said last year and the year before I could get lower arena tickets near student section for about $25-30. Now that only gets me upper deck behind the goals.
 
Knucklehank1 said:
Keep in mind we have two scandals to wade through.
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Then your examples don’t support your arguments. Otherwise, show me where they do.
Knucklehank1 said:
...Once people leave it’s tough to get them back, especially at those prices. A lot of these folks have been going to games for years. Then they stay home and realize that watching the game from home isn’t so bad. So it’s tough to pull them back.
Click to expand...
I don’t necessarily disagree with that. It’s something that your clowns overlooked when they started acting capriciously. And it’s something your AD has consistently overlooked as he has executed on his plans.

In both cases, we’ve been oblivious to the consequences...
 
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zipp said:
I've dismissed the two popular ones. The remaining event-related possibilities are...
  • People are unhappy with the basketball coach and/or this specific team.
  • People are unhappy with something else that occurred at the same time.
Just as I don't hear people say they're staying from basketball now because of the old regime, very few people admit they don't like Chris Mack--and that's irrespective of recent losses. So it must something else.

And the only other event that occurred in 2017 was the clown takeover. By the way, even if people don't like Mack, that still falls at the feet of clowns. Nor does it appear based on recent attendance numbers that people think the real clowns are gone, i.e, Gruesome, Postel at al. There must be the ongoing perception of clown behavior.

And your theory?...
Click to expand...

Ha, just because YOU have dismissed them definitely does not make them any less possible as to reasons why the attendance has fallen.
I’ve listed my reasons in multiple posts in this thread, not going to type them out again.
Either way, I’ve already dismissed your theory that it’s due to whoever is all apart of the “clown show” that you speak of. I’ve talked to many former season ticket holders and not one has said they cancelled tickets due to our ad/president/board of trustees etc.
 
kentuckyshame said:
Ha, just because YOU have dismissed them definitely does not make them any less possible as to reasons why the attendance has fallen.
I’ve listed my reasons in multiple posts in this thread, not going to type them out again.
Either way, I’ve already dismissed your theory that it’s due to whoever is all apart of the “clown show” that you speak of. I’ve talked to many former season ticket holders and not one has said they cancelled tickets due to our ad/president/board of trustees etc.
Click to expand...
Then why have they said they no longer attend games?...
 
Number of reasons, a few said kids playing sports. A few said they were upset over the scandals and once they got rid of them they just never got them back, no particular reason why. Some said donations were too high, and lastly, the ones who sat up top said they didn’t enjoy the view. Most of the people still go, just not to every game.
 
kentuckyshame said:
Ha, just because YOU have dismissed them definitely does not make them any less possible as to reasons why the attendance has fallen.
I’ve listed my reasons in multiple posts in this thread, not going to type them out again.
Either way, I’ve already dismissed your theory that it’s due to whoever is all apart of the “clown show” that you speak of. I’ve talked to many former season ticket holders and not one has said they cancelled tickets due to our ad/president/board of trustees etc.
Click to expand...

Exactly. The next time I meet someone who got rid of season tickets because of the administration will be the first time.
 
nccardfan said:
That’s not exactly true. Two years ago I bought a mini plan 6 games for reasonable price. This year they offered a mini ACC plan but it was almost double what I paid for 2 years ago, hence I decided to go to the games I wanted through Stubhub or TM. As I said last year and the year before I could get lower arena tickets near student section for about $25-30. Now that only gets me upper deck behind the goals.
Click to expand...

I don’t know about the mini-season tix packages. I do know that some full season upper deck sections have been lowered. I also know that I get to attend a special event if my tix are used every game.
 
zipp said:
Then your examples don’t support your arguments. Otherwise, show me where they do.

I don’t necessarily disagree with that. It’s something that your clowns overlooked when they started acting capriciously. And it’s something your AD has consistently overlooked as he has executed on his plans.

In both cases, we’ve been oblivious to the consequences...
Click to expand...

Look at your graph and then highlight where the scandal is for each program listed. The line goes down following that. Now envision another scandal. It’s not surprising that the line gets further depressed for the infamous two scandal program.
 
2017. The most distressing and embarrasjng time for me as a fan in my 50 years of following UofL bball.

2015 powell scandal breaks
2016 leadership at the time leads me to feel that its bad.... but they have dealt with it and it will be ok
2017 find out we will be the ONLY school in history to vacate a title. Oh, and vacate that other final 4 also. Then, while we're still hopelessly appealing.....pay for play comes out. With arguably NO recourse we lose TJ, CRP, and throw in pres. Ramsey on top amidst scandal just for fun. Great times.

So yeah, the program took a big hit and was at a low in 2017. And i suspect until the next NCAA shoe drops and passes, and then the program does something big to regain excitement, many of those fans, especially the casual ones, might be slow to return.

And i have no long term idea if VT will turn out to be a great AD or not. Jury is still out. But i do know he was not responsible for the big negative hit that happened in 2017.
 
kentuckyshame said:
Number of reasons, a few said kids playing sports. A few said they were upset over the scandals and once they got rid of them they just never got them back, no particular reason why. Some said donations were too high, and lastly, the ones who sat up top said they didn’t enjoy the view. Most of the people still go, just not to every game.
Click to expand...
Then as I told knuckles, your clowns must have underestimated the damage they could cause by acting without thinking...
 
ULdoug said:
2017. The most distressing and embarrasjng time for me as a fan in my 50 years of following UofL bball.

2015 powell scandal breaks
2016 leadership at the time leads me to feel that its bad.... but they have dealt with it and it will be ok
2017 find out we will be the ONLY school in history to vacate a title. Oh, and vacate that other final 4 also. Then, while we're still hopelessly appealing.....pay for play comes out. With arguably NO recourse we lose TJ, CRP, and throw in pres. Ramsey on top amidst scandal just for fun. Great times.

So yeah, the program took a big hit and was at a low in 2017. And i suspect until the next NCAA shoe drops and passes, and then the program does something big to regain excitement, many of those fans, especially the casual ones, might be slow to return.

And i have no long term idea if VT will turn out to be a great AD or not. Jury is still out. But i do know he was not responsible for the big negative hit that happened in 2017.
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So doug, granted you're only one guy, but what did you do to pull back on your financial support of U of L during the period 2015-2017 when you were increasingly distressed and embarrassed?

And if it was anything significant, why haven't you reinstated that support? These are the questions that should be asked, and they should be asked by people at U of L...
 
Knucklehank1 said:
Look at your graph and then highlight where the scandal is for each program listed. The line goes down following that. Now envision another scandal. It’s not surprising that the line gets further depressed for the infamous two scandal program.
Click to expand...
I've already done that, and there is no consistency except that they all go down in general. Like the NCAA BASKETBALL line. There's no 'eureka' in that observation.

Some YOY numbers INCREASE by 10% +/- during the time frames shown. There's a lotta noise in some of your data sets.

It's about precise timing, the trend before, and magnitude. U of L is unique...
 
zipp said:
I've already done that, and there is no consistency except that they all go down in general. Like the NCAA BASKETBALL line. There's no 'eureka' in that observation.

Some YOY numbers INCREASE by 10% +/- during the time frames shown. There's a lotta noise in some of your data sets.

It's about precise timing, the trend before, and magnitude. U of L is unique...
Click to expand...

I agree we are unique. Two scandals in that short of a timeframe seems unprecedented.
 
zipp said:
Then our data should stand out. You said they're like everyone else's...
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I said that all the schools had attendance drops after sanctions. The data bears that out. Unfortunately it’s tough to find other schools that have multiple scandals.
 
Knucklehank1 said:
I said that all the schools had attendance drops after sanctions. The data bears that out. Unfortunately it’s tough to find other schools that have multiple scandals.
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Then you don't have data to base a proper comparison. Figures... :rolleyes:

Why didn't you acknowledge that before wasting everyone's time? All of the NCAA simply has attendance declines...
 
zipp said:
Then you don't have data to base a proper comparison. Figures... :rolleyes:

Why didn't you acknowledge that before wasting everyone's time? All of the NCAA simply has attendance declines...
Click to expand...

The data is there. Schools that face NCAA sanctions experience attendance drops and at a minimum it takes several years to recoup any of that. And in our scandal peer group, no school has reached pre-scandal attendance figures.
 
Knucklehank1 said:
The data is there. Schools that face NCAA sanctions experience attendance drops and at a minimum it takes several years to recoup any of that. And in our scandal peer group, no school has reached pre-scandal attendance figures.
Click to expand...
Most schools WITHOUT NCAA scandals have had attendance declines. Your fundamental premise is flawed...
 
zipp said:
Most schools WITHOUT NCAA scandals have had attendance declines. Your fundamental premise is flawed...
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It appears that ALL schools with scandals face attendance declines. The data isn’t as strong in predicting what happens with multiple scandals in a short time frame. I hate that the actions of a few have made us the first test case.
 
Knucklehank1 said:
It appears that ALL schools with scandals face attendance declines. The data isn’t as strong in predicting what happens with multiple scandals in a short time frame. I hate that the actions of a few have made us the first test case.
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Then you need to find data sets for schools with "multiple scandals," in your parlance, or you have no comparable data. About what I expected, but good luck...
 
zipp said:
Then you need to find data sets for schools with "multiple scandals," in your parlance, or you have no comparable data. About what I expected, but good luck...
Click to expand...

The comparable data is that a scandal reduces attendance. Then it’s a safe leap to think another scandal would cause further deterioration.

“..,But, but the clown show...the AD....the president”. Blah blah blah. I do admire your tenacity though. It must be tough lifting peddling your garbage on this board.
 
Knucklehank1 said:
The comparable data is that a scandal reduces attendance. Then it’s a safe leap to think another scandal would cause further deterioration.

“..,But, but the clown show...the AD....the president”. Blah blah blah. I do admire your tenacity though. It must be tough lifting peddling your garbage on this board.
Click to expand...
Did UK suffer any drops in attendance during their scandals or did they increase?
 
nccardfan said:
Did UK suffer any drops in attendance during their scandals or did they increase?
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In general it’s tough to compare that time frame because not every game was available on TV. However their attendance dropped despite the fact they couldn’t play on TV at all. They recovered after a couple of years.
 
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