Senior Night attendance magic number: 17,084...

[zipp]

...That's the number that puts our average attendance this year above last year. And it stems the massive decline that started in 2017. (See chart below.) Since we're averaging 17,189 for the conference games this season, all we need to do is hit that average for our final conference game.

But we need a number for the Virginia Tech game above 18,317 to average more for the conference portion of the schedule year over year.

There's a slight bias in favor of attendance this year--one extra conference game and one less non-conference game. In comparison to the above YTD average for conference games (17,189), the average for non-conference games was 15,881. That was slightly less than last year's average of 15,901.

LAST YEAR

Overall (18 games) 16,601

Conference (9) 17,301
Non-conference (9) 15,901​

THIS YEAR TO DATE

Overall (17) 16,573

Conference (9) 17,189
Non-conference (8) 15,881​

 

[rockycard]

This is college basketball in general, not just a Louisville issue.

I can only speak for myself, but I don’t go to random games anymore like I used to, 100% because of the arena location. Ring road was a bitch, but it was more convenient for me.

 

[nccardfan]

As I have said before, in the past few years I could get a ticket in the lower arena near the student section for about $25. Now the only thing I get is an opportunity to sit upper deck behind the goals for not less than $30. I refuse to sit up there. Oh and those tickets I used to get are now offered on Stubhub for over $100. Not going to pay that for VT or even a horrible UNC.

 

[CardVille]

Attendance nationally has decreased since 2016. And ticket prices have increased. Not surprised.

 

[kentuckyshame]

The allure of a new arena has worn off, sitting upper deck at The Yum is terrible. The sight lines of FH upper deck were great, should’ve been designed the same way but they just had to put it downtown, just a stupid decision.

 

[PHCARD]

The allure of a new arena has worn off, sitting upper deck at The Yum is terrible. The sight lines of FH upper deck were great, should’ve been designed the same way but they just had to put it downtown, just a stupid decision.

Downtown business and the City of Louisville depended on that arena. It was survival. Milk that cash cow. Cash cow used to be UofL.

 

[CARDWIZ]

The design of the arena is horrible for the entire upper deck. The cost to sit in the lower bowl has exploded beyond what my fandom is willing to support. My family used to have season tickets at FH and the YUM, but we grew tired of looking at a $6,000 invoice before we even put gas in the car, paid to park, or bought a $10 beer. The fanbase willing to attend is going to continue to dwindle due to the fact the explosion in cost has broken an untold amount of family traditions supporting the program and going to every game. The cost of participating has created a generational gap on those that feel obligated to go to every game or pony up the cash to get in. At this rate our average attendance will be 13,000 or less in ten years.

 

[gocds]

The design of the arena is horrible for the entire upper deck. The cost to sit in the lower bowl has exploded beyond what my fandom is willing to support. My family used to have season tickets at FH and the YUM, but we grew tired of looking at a $6,000 invoice before we even put gas in the car, paid to park, or bought a $10 beer. The fanbase willing to attend is going to continue to dwindle due to the fact the explosion in cost has broken an untold amount of family traditions supporting the program and going to every game. The cost of participating has created a generational gap on those that feel obligated to go to every game or pony up the cash to get in. At this rate our average attendance will be 13,000 or less in ten years.

There is no doubt that college sports has priced itself right out of the market. And you are just but one example of that. I have loads of friends that feel exactly the same way. I don’t envy AD Tyra or UofL going forward in this climate. Perhaps the “tax” laws have a bit of something to do with this downturn, but there are other factors that come into play. WTH corupt arena used to seat upwards of 24,000 and now it’s 20,500. That’s a real decline. And “Kroger Field” used to have a guaranteed 67K seats and now it’s barely 61K. Just another example of a loss of revenue due to excessive charges. Cardinal Stadium has, I fear, over built itself by about 5K seats.

GO CARDS - BEAT EVERYBODY!!! God Bless America!!!

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chriss...luable-college-basketball-teams/#2ed00e993225

Does this link matter? These type of conversations always get a little over my head.

 

[CARDWIZ]

The link matters if you change the subject.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

The link matters if you change the subject.

Fair enough just trying to find context.

Seems the attendance has dropped from consistently 3rd to 6th though I don't follow it closely.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

National Avg:

2017-4,633
2018-4,607
2019-4,593

UofL
2017-20,846
2018-16,883
2019-16,601

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

2019-6th
2018-6th
2017-3rd

 

[zipp]

This is college basketball in general, not just a Louisville issue...

Attendance nationally has decreased since 2016. And ticket prices have increased. Not surprised.

The red part of the line in the above chart is not "general" or a "national" trend. That is uniquely us...

 

[zipp]

...Does this link matter? These type of conversations always get a little over my head.

Speaking of what matters... Funny when I post financials, I get asked why/how does money matter? I guess it only matters when you want it to...

 

[zipp]

The design of the arena is horrible for the entire upper deck. The cost to sit in the lower bowl has exploded beyond what my fandom is willing to support. My family used to have season tickets at FH and the YUM, but we grew tired of looking at a $6,000 invoice before we even put gas in the car, paid to park, or bought a $10 beer. The fanbase willing to attend is going to continue to dwindle due to the fact the explosion in cost has broken an untold amount of family traditions supporting the program and going to every game. The cost of participating has created a generational gap on those that feel obligated to go to every game or pony up the cash to get in. At this rate our average attendance will be 13,000 or less in ten years.

This is pretty good testimony of what I think many fans would tell you in their own way.

The issue U of L faces is that the last few years, these fans have been kicked to the curb en masse. Thousands of them. And there was no one waiting in the wings to replace them. Clowns were oblivious to that fact.

And it's not just basketball... I've started looking at mid-fiscal year (2020) financials. We're about five million or 18% behind last year in football revenue. Fans and money haven't walked away from U of L, they've been running...

 

[PHCARD]

This is pretty good testimony of what I think many fans would tell you in their own way.

The issue U of L faces is that the last few years, these fans have been kicked to the curb en masse. Thousands of them. And there was no one waiting in the wings to replace them. Clowns were oblivious to that fact.

And it's not just basketball... I've started looking at mid-fiscal year (2020) financials. We're about five million or 18% behind last year in football revenue. Fans and money haven't walked away from U of L, they've been running...

But Zipp, you are failing to mention the downward trend in FB & MBB started while TJ was still in charge. It DID, brother and you know it. TJ either failed to see it or ignored it.

Every time I look at that North End addition, I ask this. Why Tom, why?

 

[kentuckyshame]

We’ve gone over the declining attendance multiple times, and it always comes down to a few different reasons

1) watching a game from the upper deck of the yum just isn’t worth the price of a season ticket

2) people don’t seem to like going downtown

3) the scandals that happened under Pitino. This is probably the main reason for the attendance issues, as the drop in attendance started just after the powell/bowen scandals.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

Speaking of what matters... Funny when I post financials, I get asked why/how does money matter? I guess it only matters when you want it to...

I'm only trying to get to the end game. I didn't say the link mattered I asked if it mattered. So I'll ask you, does that link matter?

I asked you two years ago what the end result worst case scenario fear was for the UofL Athletic programs in relation to the off topic threads you were creating. And I respect where you're coming from. You said your fear was UofL Athletics would turn into Wake Forest. And again, I get it that's fine. Fair enough. Who wants to be THOSE guys?

I should have asked a few follow-up questions. What is the timeframe for that nosedive? When's it gonna happen? Or, how long will it take for us determine we're "somewhat" in the clear from that happening? Is this something that was supposed to already happen? Is this something that's going to happen in the very near future? Or is this something that could happen 3-5 years down the road? 5-10 years? 20 years? More?

What's the end game? Still fearing turning into Wake Forest? Or are there other things to consider as well?

 

[nccardfan]

I'm only trying to get to the end game. I didn't say the link mattered I asked if it mattered. So I'll ask you, does that link matter?

I asked you two years ago what the end result worst case scenario fear was for the UofL Athletic programs in relation to the off topic threads you were creating. And I respect where you're coming from. You said your fear was UofL Athletics would turn into Wake Forest. And again, I get it that's fine. Fair enough. Who wants to be THOSE guys?

I should have asked a few follow-up questions. What is the timeframe for that nosedive? When's it gonna happen? Or, how long will it take for us determine we're "somewhat" in the clear from that happening? Is this something that was supposed to already happen? Is this something that's going to happen in the very near future? Or is this something that could happen 3-5 years down the road? 5-10 years? 20 years? More?

What's the end game? Still fearing turning into Wake Forest? Or are there other things to consider as well?

I just don’t understand why these type of threads get so much leverage when the real story is WBB won big, BB scuffled but swept Valparaiso and Monday is our biggest basketball game to date.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

I just don’t understand why these type of threads get so much leverage when the real story is WBB won big, BB scuffled but swept Valparaiso and Monday is our biggest basketball game to date.

I believe the topics you list have a ton of value, and I will post in the threads you create discussing these items! Yes! As Zipp has said himself, it applies to me as well... "I can cover a lot of ground!"

So far, this thread has been cordial, friendly conversation. I think as long as it stays that way, thread should stay open. Unless, you feel this is a redundant thread and breaking board rules. Do you see it that way? It's okay if you do, just curious, as your opinion matters. Perhaps it is. Is this thread spam material?

 

[NorthCard]

...That's the number that puts our average attendance this year above last year. And it stems the massive decline that started in 2017. (See chart below.) Since we're averaging 17,189 for the conference games this season, all we need to do is hit that average for our final conference game.

But we need a number for the Virginia Tech game above 18,317 to average more for the conference portion of the schedule year over year.

There's a slight bias in favor of attendance this year--one extra conference game and one less non-conference game. In comparison to the above YTD average for conference games (17,189), the average for non-conference games was 15,881. That was slightly less than last year's average of 15,901.

LAST YEAR

Overall (18 games) 16,601

Conference (9) 17,301
Non-conference (9) 15,901​

THIS YEAR TO DATE

Overall (17) 16,573

Conference (9) 17,189
Non-conference (8) 15,881​

I guess I don’t understand the point of this post. Are you still hurt that Pitino is not at Louisville?

 

[KerryRhodes]

I guess I don’t understand the point of this post. Are you still butt hurt that Pitino is not at Louisville?

 

[nccardfan]

I believe the topics you list have a ton of value, and I will post in the threads you create discussing these items! Yes! As Zipp has said himself, it applies to me as well... "I can cover a lot of ground!"

So far, this thread has been cordial, friendly conversation. I think as long as it stays that way, thread should stay open. Unless, you feel this is a redundant thread and breaking board rules. Do you see it that way? It's okay if you do, just curious, as your opinion matters. Perhaps it is. Is this thread spam material?

These types of threads do have a Groundhog Day sense of feel. They may start out with a bit of interesting tidbit (bait is what I call it). Pretty soon we are rehashing TJ, Dr Ramsey and the whole damn country.. I know I don’t have to read it just like no one has to read my dribble... Just wonder if we will ever be allowed to move on. It’s like my Mom’s dementia. She would literally ask me the same question over and over. However in this case, I know it’s not the first time it’s been said.

 

[Cardiac Red]

I guess I don’t understand the point of this post. Are you still butt hurt that Pitino is not at Louisville?

I've got this one... Yes he is !

 

[Cardiac Red]

I'm only trying to get to the end game. I didn't say the link mattered I asked if it mattered. So I'll ask you, does that link matter?

I asked you two years ago what the end result worst case scenario fear was for the UofL Athletic programs in relation to the off topic threads you were creating. And I respect where you're coming from. You said your fear was UofL Athletics would turn into Wake Forest. And again, I get it that's fine. Fair enough. Who wants to be THOSE guys?

I should have asked a few follow-up questions. What is the timeframe for that nosedive? When's it gonna happen? Or, how long will it take for us determine we're "somewhat" in the clear from that happening? Is this something that was supposed to already happen? Is this something that's going to happen in the very near future? Or is this something that could happen 3-5 years down the road? 5-10 years? 20 years? More?

What's the end game? Still fearing turning into Wake Forest? Or are there other things to consider as well?

He don't have a clue..

 

[Cardiac Red]

...That's the number that puts our average attendance this year above last year. And it stems the massive decline that started in 2017. (See chart below.) Since we're averaging 17,189 for the conference games this season, all we need to do is hit that average for our final conference game.

But we need a number for the Virginia Tech game above 18,317 to average more for the conference portion of the schedule year over year.

There's a slight bias in favor of attendance this year--one extra conference game and one less non-conference game. In comparison to the above YTD average for conference games (17,189), the average for non-conference games was 15,881. That was slightly less than last year's average of 15,901.

LAST YEAR

Overall (18 games) 16,601

Conference (9) 17,301
Non-conference (9) 15,901​

THIS YEAR TO DATE

Overall (17) 16,573

Conference (9) 17,189
Non-conference (8) 15,881​

For this year are you using announced attendance or actual attendance.?

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

These types of threads do have a Groundhog Day sense of feel. They may start out with a bit of interesting tidbit (bait is what I call it). Pretty soon we are rehashing TJ, Dr Ramsey and the whole damn country.. I know I don’t have to read it just like no one has to read my dribble... Just wonder if we will ever be allowed to move on. It’s like my Mom’s dementia. She would literally ask me the same question over and over. However in this case, I know it’s not the first time it’s been said.

Yeah... I don't disagree!

 

[zipp]

But Zipp, you are failing to mention the downward trend in FB & MBB started while TJ was still in charge. It DID, brother and you know it. TJ either failed to see it or ignored it.

Every time I look at that North End addition, I ask this. Why Tom, why?

The chart above goes back more than thirty years for basketball. Are you saying there's no difference between the black and red parts of that graph?

Reported attendance in football has steadily increased. I can quote you those attendance figures if you want.

What has stated declining precipitously in football is operating revenue. And I can cite you those figures as well.

Let me know what you want to see...

 

[zipp]

We’ve gone over the declining attendance multiple times, and it always comes down to a few different reasons

1) watching a game from the upper deck of the yum just isn’t worth the price of a season ticket

2) people don’t seem to like going downtown

3) the scandals that happened under Pitino. This is probably the main reason for the attendance issues, as the drop in attendance started just after the powell/bowen scandals.

The ho scandal broke in 2015. It may be hard to see, but the last data point on the black portion of the line in the chart was in 2017. Two years later. I can quote you that average if you want.

What happened immediately before the attendance implosion was the clown takeover. And three years later, I guess people are staying away as long as clowns remain in charge. That's the only logical conclusion...

 

[zipp]

...So far, this thread has been cordial, friendly conversation...

I'm only trying to get to the end game. I didn't say the link mattered I asked if it mattered. So I'll ask you, does that link matter?

I asked you two years ago what the end result worst case scenario fear was for the UofL Athletic programs in relation to the off topic threads you were creating. And I respect where you're coming from. You said your fear was UofL Athletics would turn into Wake Forest. And again, I get it that's fine. Fair enough. Who wants to be THOSE guys?

I should have asked a few follow-up questions. What is the timeframe for that nosedive? When's it gonna happen? Or, how long will it take for us determine we're "somewhat" in the clear from that happening? Is this something that was supposed to already happen? Is this something that's going to happen in the very near future? Or is this something that could happen 3-5 years down the road? 5-10 years? 20 years? More?

What's the end game? Still fearing turning into Wake Forest? Or are there other things to consider as well?

You don't become Wake Forest overnite. It happens as other programs pass you by that you used to outgun.

Our revenues haven't increased in three years. Our net position (wealth), which had been on a moonshot, is $30 million worse than 2017. Nationally, the top programs grow year-over-year. Our growth has stopped--at best. That's how you morph into Wake.

If the timing matters a lot, I'll do some more analysis and get back to you. Let me know...

 

[zipp]

I guess I don’t understand the point of this post. Are you still butt hurt that Pitino is not at Louisville?

I don't care about the past except as a reference point for performance. If Mack and "Vince" run circles around their predecessors, I'm good with that. Of course, that's not happening, so the past is still relevant.

Any journey starts with the first step. The first step back for us financially is stopping the decline. If you've attended a game in the last few years, you understand the issue of men's basketball attendance...

 

[zipp]

For this year are you using announced attendance or actual attendance.?

Where are you getting actual attendance data?...

 

[kentuckyshame]

The ho scandal broke in 2015. It may be hard to see, but the last data point on the black portion of the line in the chart was in 2017. Two years later. I can quote you that average if you want.

What happened immediately before the attendance implosion was the clown takeover. And three years later, I guess people are staying away as long as clowns remain in charge. That's the only logical conclusion...

The title was stripped in 2017, the same year of the Bowen/fbi case, also the same year our attendance took a dip. Honestly, and I’m not messing with you, I really don’t think fans care as much as you about who is in charge.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

If the timing matters a lot, I'll do some more analysis and get back to you.

Yeah, let me know how long it's going to take for the UofL Athletic Program to get morphed by Wake Forest. As a starting point timeframe, please use two years ago since that is when you initiated the flooding of your concerns of such demise.

Also, in addition please clarify which sports are in trouble here.

Just trying to get the entire picture thanks!

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

The title was stripped in 2017, the same year of the Bowen/fbi case, also the same year our attendance took a dip. Honestly, and I’m not messing with you, I really don’t think fans care as much as you about who is in charge.

I think another key date is Feb 2016 - when UofL chose to self impose a post season ban. At that point, it was determined, or at least confirmed internally, there was some agreement some awful things happened and some kind of action was warranted. Some fans disagreed with this action. Maybe ticket holders are lost with that decision. Maybe ticket holders are lost due to the confirmation after internal investigation a penalty was warranted. Hard to say. Maybe a combination of both happening. Either way, what's the root cause?

So an observer has to be honest about the timelines. At that juncture, season ticket holders that were waiting for some evidence or proof of wrongdoing that were maybe holding out for action got their first taste of it. Then as you mention, Bowen. I think it's possible that situation just broke some people.

Long story short, pretending these off court scandals haven't had an impact on the type of topics being introduced is pretty much a ridiculous POV that a very slim minority would try to prop up. Not attacking anyone personally here.

Of course, there are also many more reasons to consider decrease in attendance. It's possible those fans "lost" are back watching again, just choosing a cheaper path - their couch.

 

[kentuckyshame]

I think another key date is Feb 2016 - when UofL chose to self impose a post season ban. At that point, it was determined, or at least confirmed internally, there was some agreement some awful things happened and some kind of action was warranted. Some fans disagreed with this action. Maybe ticket holders are lost with that decision. Maybe ticket holders are lost due to the confirmation after internal investigation a penalty was warranted. Hard to say. Maybe a combination of both happening. Either way, what's the root cause?

So an observer has to be honest about the timelines. At that juncture, season ticket holders that were waiting for some evidence or proof of wrongdoing that were maybe holding out for action got their first taste of it. Then as you mention, Bowen. I think it's possible that situation just broke some people.

Long story short, pretending these off court scandals haven't had an impact on the type of topics being introduced is pretty much a ridiculous POV that a very slim minority would try to prop up. Not attacking anyone personally here.

Of course, there are also many more reasons to consider decrease in attendance. It's possible those fans "lost" are back watching again, just choosing a cheaper path - their couch.

It’s really hard to argue with anything you just said, and regarding the timing of Bowen, broke is the perfect term here as it was just so much negativity for the b-ball program in such a short time. I think many fans will come back, but like you said, the fans that decided to pass on season tickets surely saw the financial savings. Just a perfect storm.

 

[zipp]

The title was stripped in 2017, the same year of the Bowen/fbi case, also the same year our attendance took a dip. Honestly, and I’m not messing with you, I really don’t think fans care as much as you about who is in charge.

Well, there's five thousand or so people who used to attend basketball games a short while ago who care about something.

And it defies logic that they're staying away because of Pitino and Jurich and Bowen and a few hos. Not when they're all gone, and the people we have running things now are vast improvements. That's unless the U of L fanbase is plagued by a disproportionate share of idiots...

 

[zipp]

I think another key date is Feb 2016 - when UofL chose to self impose a post season ban. At that point, it was determined, or at least confirmed internally, there was some agreement some awful things happened and some kind of action was warranted. Some fans disagreed with this action. Maybe ticket holders are lost with that decision. Maybe ticket holders are lost due to the confirmation after internal investigation a penalty was warranted. Hard to say. Maybe a combination of both happening. Either way, what's the root cause?

So an observer has to be honest about the timelines. At that juncture, season ticket holders that were waiting for some evidence or proof of wrongdoing that were maybe holding out for action got their first taste of it. Then as you mention, Bowen. I think it's possible that situation just broke some people.

Long story short, pretending these off court scandals haven't had an impact on the type of topics being introduced is pretty much a ridiculous POV that a very slim minority would try to prop up. Not attacking anyone personally here.

Of course, there are also many more reasons to consider decrease in attendance. It's possible those fans "lost" are back watching again, just choosing a cheaper path - their couch.

What's ridiculous is that you're right and three years later, people are still staying away from games. And for a team that is gunning for an ACC title with hopes for a deep postseason run.

THAT's what doesn't make any sense. And I'm not saying you're the only one with that POV or wanting to somehow rationalize that outcome. You and those who agree with you are simply unwilling to seriously consider the more obvious explanation...

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

What's ridiculous is that you're right and three years later, people are still staying away from games. And for a team that is gunning for an ACC title with hopes for a deep postseason run.

THAT's what doesn't make any sense. And I'm not saying you're the only one with that POV or wanting to somehow rationalize that outcome. You and those who agree with you are simply unwilling to seriously consider the more obvious explanation...

Man I'm open minded and I believe I did state there are a multitude of reasons explaining drops in attendance, not just any convenient reason that serves anyone's agenda/preference. You know I'm not a sunshine pumper dude I'm just calling it how I see it from the nosebleed seats.

In all seriousness, and man I mean it... the UofL brass should conduct an extensive reach-out to all ticket holders that are no longer...and craft a questionnaire to attempt to identify how to bring them back, why it is they left, etc. Maybe they have done this. I do not know. Getting those who hit the road to put their feelings in print is the only way anybody is REALLY gonna know. I don't pretend to know. I'm just taking a look @ the checkpoints in time in regards to history of hookers, NCAA self banning, and FBI Wire taps and I'm maybe wrong, but I just think these things are a turn off for the average family of 4. I'm sure there are many other factors, like $10 beers, parking, the damn economy in general... big screen TVs with my lady bringing me cookies and rubbing my feet during time-outs... can't do that in Section _____....oh wait that's just TMI my bad.

I do know the program fell from 3rd to 6th nationally. Since they appear to be holding at 6th I'm personally.... not that concerned. I'm really not. They are still what, roughly 3x greater than the average? If this was a drop from 3rd to 15th to 25th to 42nd etc, etc, etc... I'd be concerned I guess. But that ain't what's happening.

If they fell from 3rd to 6th in the NL East MLB Standings then yeah, that's gonna be a problem for everybody that's part of that.