Name Another NCAA Basketball Coach That Has Done Less With More Than Calipari

[Mayoman]

Really? The guy in 7 years has a NC. A 38-1 to his 4th final 4. Has won more then any other coach while at UK. Has created A culture and A brand thats considered one of the best in all sports. Owe and not one NCAA violation during his stay.

Its hard to win it all. But as long as your in the conversation every year your winning. And dont forget that every year is basically a new team with raw young men. If you can't see just what he has accomplished, then you have an agenda and know nothing about coll bball.

John Wooden and Denny Crum laugh at you too.

Getting to the FF 4 is easier than winning it all. Cal has gotten there....but gets out coached when he gets there, hence only 1 ship.....with all those blue chippers....and that is the point that you are unable to deny. Deal with it.

Wooden won...and in succession year after year.....but he was a great coach. And Crum had a great run in the 80's....and did it with far less blue chippers than Cal or Wooden. Cal...not so much.

 

[ACCCard]

27 first round NBA draft picks numerous NBA all stars one title for Cal at UK and for life and one for Pitino at UL to go with one at UK that is the bottom line. All the rest is spin. UK fans have ONE goal every year and they have fallen short all years but one. They know it and they feel it

 

[ThroughBlue]

27 first round NBA draft picks numerous NBA all stars one title for Cal at UK and for life and one for Pitino at UL to go with one at UK that is the bottom line. All the rest is spin. UK fans have ONE goal every year and they have fallen short all years but one. They know it and they feel it

What is your goal for your basketball team every year?

 

[GFANBB]

Pitino has one in 16 years at UL

 

[zipp]

What is your goal for your basketball team every year?

We all wanna win a championship, but only one or two teams have the way paved.

"Elite program", my a$$...

 

[zipp]

Really? The guy in 7 years has a NC. A 38-1 to his 4th final 4. Has won more then any other coach while at UK. Has created A culture and A brand thats considered one of the best in all sports. Owe and not one NCAA violation during his stay.

Its hard to win it all. But as long as your in the conversation every year your winning. And dont forget that every year is basically a new team with raw young men. If you can't see just what he has accomplished, then you have an agenda and know nothing about coll bball.

All of that rhetoric is just a fluffy way of saying that you're lowering the bar when you can't win it all. No one's saying you have to win it every year. But one championship in what will be eight years is not satisfactory even for the average LPT fan. And I don't blame them for feeling that way when you've had nearly forty 5-star kids blow thru your "system".

Speaking of which, you get no credit for every year starting with a "new team with raw young men". That's using the system that you have chosen to compete with as a crutch. Get a new system.

"Elite program", my a$$...

 

[zipp]

Well, "we're" not, so you're wasting your breath. I was responding to a specific comment within the thread. I've already addressed the OP in earlier posts.

I'm guessing this is your nickname for UK fans, so I'll have to repeat yet again that I'm not a UK fan. See my original post where I refer to Calipari as "pure sleaze." The only teams I dislike more than UK are Kansas, Oklahoma, Duke, and Ohio State. I'm just providing commentary as an impartial observer (or, if anything, as an observer partial to UL in any UK vs. UL contest).

I don't know or care who you are. If you're as smart as a slappy, it's a pointless distinction anyway.

And the number of five-star kids on the LPT roster is precisely on topic. Your comment thereafter was OFF topic. There was no specific comparison by the OP with Pitino, just your attempt to take it in that direction.

Even though you're not a slapd!ck.

"Elite program", my a$$...

 

[Mike'sMarbles]

I can't think of a Calipari team that has done more with less.

I know UK fans are going to jump in with "what about the #4 seed and #8 seed that made it to the Final Four?"

But to me, those teams are even more of an indictment of Calipari. The talent that he gets is so much greater than everyone else. Based on talent he should have a #1 seed every year, barring massive injuries.

Instead, he drops games in the SEC regular season to unranked SEC teams he has no business losing to. It's not the talent, so it must be something else. What could it be? Coaching. Less with more.

Wall and Cousins didn't make the Final Four. It's a disgrace. But Cal ran into a great coach, Bob Huggins. A much better coach than Calipari with a LOT less talent. Huggins is an example of a coach, like Pitino, who does more with less. Cal does less with more, period.

A sidebar on Pitino: Look at some of the teams this guy has won with at UofL. He won what many call the greatest regular season conference ever in the Big East. He took teams led by TWill and Earl Clark to the Elite 8. The only guy I can think of that made a good living in the NBA under Pitino was Garcia. And yet, Pitino wins with these guys. I can't think of a Pitino team that didn't get further than it should based solely on talent.

I might even forget all of the above about Cal if it weren't for the UK 2013 team. I know they lost Noel late in the year, but that's my point: Calipari can't win when he has a real disadvantage in talent. That was a real opportunity for Cal to show he could win more with less. Instead of clawing its way into the NCAA Tournament, his team laid an egg in the NIT. Does anyone think any team in that NIT had more talent than UK, even without Noel?

Less with more. They should put it on his tombstone.

 

[GFANBB]

It's hard winning primary playing freshman. That's why every coach use it as an excuse when their team isn't playing well. So you have to give Cal credit for winning the way he does.

 

[BPGhost]

It's hard winning primary playing freshman. That's why every coach use it as an excuse when their team isn't playing well. So you have to give Cal credit for winning the way he does.

False.

The only credit that Sweaty Cal has earned is being able to sell the idea of spending their mandatory time at uk to a multiple number of the best high school players in the country each year. Lesser credit can be given for getting those kids to agree to only 15 shots a game when they would have gotten 20 at another program.

Given that level of talent annually, there are 75 coaches right now that could have had equal or greater success than he's had.

 

[zipp]

It's hard winning primary playing freshman. That's why every coach use it as an excuse when their team isn't playing well. So you have to give Cal credit for winning the way he does.

I'll accept that excuse when a team and coach HAPPEN to end up with freshmen and inexperienced players.

But THAT is Pitino Lite's system. He's playing mostly freshmen and sophomores by design. He doesn't get that excuse.

"Elite program", my a$$...

 

[Bluuu]

I'll accept that excuse when a team and coach HAPPEN to end up with freshmen and inexperienced players.

But THAT is Pitino Lite's system. He's playing mostly freshmen and sophomores by design. He doesn't get that excuse.

"Elite program", my a$$...

8-2 vs UL he should be 10-0

 

[rockycard]

8-2 vs UL he should be 10-0

0-1 this year, but live in the past fella.

Enjoy watching your team against that SEC schedule, that has to suck balls watching that crap. Cal collects the best talent every year, his coaching evens everything out.

 

[earsky]

Cal collects the best talent every year, his coaching evens everything out.

And that...is the point of the thread.

 

[shadow force]

8-2 vs UL he should be 10-0

73-70

 

[JohnKBA]

False.

The only credit that Sweaty Cal has earned is being able to sell the idea of spending their mandatory time at uk to a multiple number of the best high school players in the country each year. Lesser credit can be given for getting those kids to agree to only 15 shots a game when they would have gotten 20 at another program.

Given that level of talent annually, there are 75 coaches right now that could have had equal or greater success than he's had.

Link?

 

[Big Cat fan]

No. Peyton Siva and Russ Smith could not have had the careers they did at UK. Watching those two, to me, epitomized what college basketball should be. Also would not want to play in the SEC. UofL has had tremendous conference success in two of the toughest basketball conferences in the nation. Given that, with Pitino's emphasis on multiyear players, I prefer UofL's results.

Wow even your fanbase has to laugh at this one.

 

[Senore2006]

Wow even your fanbase has to laugh at this one.

For your sake, I hope you're kidding, lol.

Whatever assumptions form the basis of UK fan opinions, hosting a privately-cheffed party at Coal House for the full 7 months of a college career for privileged ballplayers of incredible and extremely obvious talent should result in various and numerous championships.

Already boosted by ESPN's unfortunate cabal of SEC events, that network has done yeoman's work in pimping out the "freshman phenomenon", the "closer look" at Cal and his team at home, relaxing, at work and practice (which plays to an audience of precisely only UK fans, lol, who somehow believe the entire nation wants to be them.) and has tried unsuccessfully to pimp a conference which is at least partially responsible for their losing 600K subscribers a month. This pathetically-bent approach managed to downplay incredible seasons had last season by legit senior All Americans such as Valentine, Hield and Brogden. It's like there is an entire "other world" out there of animals all chomping at the bit to play Cal and UK and to experience his late game coaching failures on such a regular basis.

No one is watching UK play anyone within the SEC at home owing to such time-honored home cooking referreeing and not even the locals watch them play away, lol. The SEC is famous for sending dozens and sometimes hundreds to watch UK when they come to town. LMAO

 

[Big Cat fan]

For your sake, I hope you're kidding, lol.

Whatever assumptions form the basis of UK fan opinions, hosting a privately-cheffed party at Coal House for the full 7 months of a college career for privileged ballplayers of incredible and extremely obvious talent should result in various and numerous championships.

Already boosted by ESPN's unfortunate cabal of SEC events, that network has done yeoman's work in pimping out the "freshman phenomenon", the "closer look" at Cal and his team at home, relaxing, at work and practice (which plays to an audience of precisely only UK fans, lol, who somehow believe the entire nation wants to be them.) and has tried unsuccessfully to pimp a conference which is at least partially responsible for their losing 600K subscribers a month. This pathetically-bent approach managed to downplay incredible seasons had last season by legit senior All Americans such as Valentine, Hield and Brogden. It's like there is an entire "other world" out there of animals all chomping at the bit to play Cal and UK and to experience his late game coaching failures on such a regular basis.

No one is watching UK play anyone within the SEC at home owing to such time-honored home cooking referreeing and not even the locals watch them play away, lol. The SEC is famous for sending dozens and sometimes hundreds to watch UK when they come to town. LMAO

You guys wouldn't do good if you got everyones best shot. That is what we deal with.

So your telling me if Fox went to Ul you wouldn't want him because he'll stay for a year?

I'm glad you guys don't get one n done talent. You'd be a top 5 program.

 

[zipp]

You guys wouldn't do good if you got everyones best shot. That is what we deal with.

So your telling me if Fox went to Ul you wouldn't want him because he'll stay for a year?

I'm glad you guys don't get one n done talent. You'd be a top 5 program.

Everything is relative... With the LPT schedule, a "best shot" from most of your opponents is playing a team like U of L in a rebuilding year.

The average OAD-caliber kid isn't willing to work hard enough to play for Pitino. Fox could have been an exception. He did end up turning down U of L for a fast and easy track to the NBA.

And I'm not someone who dismisses what Pitino Lite does to keep his players pulling together in the same direction. No way Pitino could manage a team of OAD kids IMO. You're more a manager and psychologist and less of an X and O guy. And you motivate kids for a short run goal that they can achieve in six months or less, to get out of your program as soon as possible.

"Elite program", my a$$...

 

[feelthebeirne]

Just stunning the talent he has collected for the last 15 years and has one championship to show for it. He should thank the heavens each night that Anthony Davis played on a team he was called the coach of at UK. He'd be ringless without him.

This UK team has a very small chance to make noise in the NCAA Tournament. They are athletic, but not physical. Cal's best teams have been his most physical teams. This team is weak and does not defend well. A second Sweet Sixteen flameout in as many years plus this loss will leave the blue people grumbling all offseason.

Guy Lewis, Dale Brown

 

[earsky]

So your telling me if Fox went to Ul you wouldn't want him because he'll stay for a year?

I'm glad you guys don't get one n done talent. You'd be a top 5 program.

Fox would be a good fit here.That's why CP recruited him.The same can't be said for all oads.That's why he doesn't go after all of them,they don't all fit what he's doing here.
Top5? Numbers are subjective on this.We're happy where we are,top 5 or top10.

 

[ThroughBlue]

Can Lorenzo Romar get some run in this thread?

 

[BlueWorldOrder74]

For your sake, I hope you're kidding, lol.

Whatever assumptions form the basis of UK fan opinions, hosting a privately-cheffed party at Coal House for the full 7 months of a college career for privileged ballplayers of incredible and extremely obvious talent should result in various and numerous championships.

Already boosted by ESPN's unfortunate cabal of SEC events, that network has done yeoman's work in pimping out the "freshman phenomenon", the "closer look" at Cal and his team at home, relaxing, at work and practice (which plays to an audience of precisely only UK fans, lol, who somehow believe the entire nation wants to be them.) and has tried unsuccessfully to pimp a conference which is at least partially responsible for their losing 600K subscribers a month. This pathetically-bent approach managed to downplay incredible seasons had last season by legit senior All Americans such as Valentine, Hield and Brogden. It's like there is an entire "other world" out there of animals all chomping at the bit to play Cal and UK and to experience his late game coaching failures on such a regular basis.

No one is watching UK play anyone within the SEC at home owing to such time-honored home cooking referreeing and not even the locals watch them play away, lol. The SEC is famous for sending dozens and sometimes hundreds to watch UK when they come to town. LMAO

Me no understand big words you write.

What I do know is, I don't care much about SEC money, ESPN, blah, blah, blah. All I care about is watching fun basketball, being in the mix and conversation come March, and beating UL 3 out of 4 times. Well, I would say every time to be honest, but even I understand that it's not possible. So, I'm OK with 75% or so.

Different team year in and out, no problem. One and dones. Cool. 4 year guys, good with me. It's a game, it's fun, and it's my passion. BASKETBALL!!!

Your arguments about conferences that suck, no one watching SEC regular season games, it must be boring watching Kentucky play Jan-Feb - I just don't care.

Keep telling me why I should be embarrassed to be a UK fan, and why UL is the better program. I don't mind. I'll keep watching my team play, win, and hopefully beat your team in March....again.

Not trying to flame or bash. It's just how I feel. I support your right to say whatever you want and love your team. Hell, I pulled for you guys v Indiana. And I'll do it again a few more times when you play UNC and Duke. Go Cards!!!!

 

[JohnKBA]

Your arguments about conferences that suck, no one watching SEC regular season games, it must be boring watching Kentucky play Jan-Feb - I just don't care.

The truth is, NOBODY gives a damn about any of these college basketball games right now. All anyone is talking about on national radio and TV is NFL football and Clemson/Bama. After the NFL season ends, the focus will turn to the NFL draft and spring training. Duke/UNC gets some national run because ESPN crams it down our throats.

The only time NCAA basketball is relevant on a national scene is during the tourney. So yeah, nobody is watching Vandy @ Mississippi State on a Tuesday except Vandy and MSU fans - but the same can be said of pretty much any college basketball matchup this time of year. It's a niche sport, period.

 

[zipp]

Guy Lewis, Dale Brown

Can Lorenzo Romar get some run in this thread?

This who's who list of coaches simply underscores the point made by the OP.

"Elite program", my a$$...

 

[BPGhost]

You guys wouldn't do good if you got everyones best shot. That is what we deal with.

For someone who referenced about our fan base laughing at UofL's methods and success vs the yuts - You're freaking kidding right? You mean getting the "best shot" from the likes of LSU, auburn, the Mississippis, etc?

That must be grueling - lol.

 

[Atrain7732]

The mental gymnastics employed In order to justify UL's standing while also denigrating UK's is astounding. I have watched it change significantly just within Cal's tenure. Certain fans have created bar graphs and pie charts in an effort to find that illustrious silver lining.

When Cal first came to U.K. Prevailing UL sentiment was that even tho he could recruit, no one has ever won with Freshmen largely leading the way. Well, needless to say that sentiment didn't last long.

Alas, a new sentiment was formed from the ether. Let's denigrate UK under the argument that Cal is such an amazing recruiter and they get such amazing talent that they really should win it all every year. If they don't, then it is a failure. This is actually a pretty smart method bc it has nothing to do with UL and their record against U.K. Or their accomplishments relative to U.K. And I think we can all agree UL fans want to avoid that like the plague. Not gonna win any argument related to that.

So out come the pie charts and the bar graphs espousing how much talent UK has had and comparing it to only one goal--a championship. No mention of the actual data behind the numbers.

That the downside to Current day recruiting is that kids don't stick around but for a season. Many elite players consistently get outplayed by 2-3 star upperclassmen. But there is that elite of the elite which has been the genesis of U.K.s enormous success. And the tourney is LARGELY based on experience as well. Even considering that tho UK has excelled. They were a HAIR FROM A PERFECT SEASON. Terribly disappointing to lose that year. But in no ones wildest imagination is that season a failure. Same with Walls team. Bad shooting night but still an amazing season. If anything those teams reaffirm the experience narrative.

Just interesting to see that UL fans actually expect U.K. to win it all every year. I guess us UK fans should be appreciative. I will do the bar graph guys a favor and not spend an inordinate amount of my time creating a bar graph of Pitinos total number of 4-5 stars for his career, UK included, relative to his championships. Bc given that he has only won 2 in his lifetime I am guessing it is not so stellar either. He had to have what is considered one of the best teams of all time to win at UK with what 6-7 pros on that team.

But, Pitino is a helluva coach. Bonafide HOF'er. So I don't need to create an entire false argument to denigrate him or UL's illustrious history. I just acknowledge it. Maybe it would just be easier for everyone to do that. Just sayin.

 

[BPGhost]

The mental gymnastics employed In order to justify UL's standing while also denigrating UK's is astounding. I have watched it change significantly just within Cal's tenure. Certain fans have created bar graphs and pie charts in an effort to find that illustrious silver lining.

When Cal first came to U.K. Prevailing UL sentiment was that even tho he could recruit, no one has ever won with Freshmen largely leading the way. Well, needless to say that sentiment didn't last long.

Alas, a new sentiment was formed from the ether. Let's denigrate UK under the argument that Cal is such an amazing recruiter and they get such amazing talent that they really should win it all every year. If they don't, then it is a failure. This is actually a pretty smart method bc it has nothing to do with UL and their record against U.K. Or their accomplishments relative to U.K. And I think we can all agree UL fans want to avoid that like the plague. Not gonna win any argument related to that.

So out come the pie charts and the bar graphs espousing how much talent UK has had and comparing it to only one goal--a championship. No mention of the actual data behind the numbers.

That the downside to Current day recruiting is that kids don't stick around but for a season. Many elite players consistently get outplayed by 2-3 star upperclassmen. But there is that elite of the elite which has been the genesis of U.K.s enormous success. And the tourney is LARGELY based on experience as well. Even considering that tho UK has excelled. They were a HAIR FROM A PERFECT SEASON. Terribly disappointing to lose that year. But in no ones wildest imagination is that season a failure. Same with Walls team. Bad shooting night but still an amazing season. If anything those teams reaffirm the experience narrative.

Just interesting to see that UL fans actually expect U.K. to win it all every year. I guess us UK fans should be appreciative. I will do the bar graph guys a favor and not spend an inordinate amount of my time creating a bar graph of Pitinos total number of 4-5 stars for his career, UK included, relative to his championships. Bc given that he has only won 2 in his lifetime I am guessing it is not so stellar either. He had to have what is considered one of the best teams of all time to win at UK with what 6-7 pros on that team.

But, Pitino is a helluva coach. Bonafide HOF'er. So I don't need to create an entire false argument to denigrate him or UL's illustrious history. I just acknowledge it. Maybe it would just be easier for everyone to do that. Just sayin.

Never has anyone typed so much, to say so little.

 

[Atrain7732]

Never has anyone typed so much, to say so little.

Nice comeback brotha. If u would like to refute any single point I made, have at it. I would like to hear it TBH. Of course, the fact that it is all true hurts your argument a little. But have at it nonetheless.

Or just make a typical message board I don't have an answer retort. Whatever floats your buoy.

 

[BPGhost]

Nice comeback brotha. If u would like to refute any single point I made, have at it. I would like to hear it TBH. Of course, the fact that it is all true hurts your argument a little. But have at it nonetheless.

Or just make a typical message board I don't have an answer retort. Whatever floats your buoy.

Lol - you only attempted to make one point - that Sweaty Cal is a better coach than he's given credit for - you just decided to spread that out over 1500 words.

Spoiler alert - he's not.

 

[zipp]

Nice comeback brotha. If u would like to refute any single point I made, have at it...

I'll be happy to...

...Certain fans have created bar graphs and pie charts in an effort to find that illustrious silver lining.

...Let's denigrate UK under the argument that Cal is such an amazing recruiter and they get such amazing talent that they really should win it all every year. If they don't, then it is a failure. This is actually a pretty smart method bc it has nothing to do with UL and their record against U.K. Or their accomplishments relative to U.K. And I think we can all agree UL fans want to avoid that like the plague. Not gonna win any argument related to that.

...That the downside to Current day recruiting is that kids don't stick around but for a season. Many elite players consistently get outplayed by 2-3 star upperclassmen. But there is that elite of the elite which has been the genesis of U.K.s enormous success. And the tourney is LARGELY based on experience as well. Even considering that tho UK has excelled. They were a HAIR FROM A PERFECT SEASON. Terribly disappointing to lose that year. But in no ones wildest imagination is that season a failure. Same with Walls team. Bad shooting night but still an amazing season. If anything those teams reaffirm the experience narrative.

Just interesting to see that UL fans actually expect U.K. to win it all every year. I guess us UK fans should be appreciative. I will do the bar graph guys a favor and not spend an inordinate amount of my time creating a bar graph of Pitinos total number of 4-5 stars for his career, UK included, relative to his championships. Bc given that he has only won 2 in his lifetime I am guessing it is not so stellar either. He had to have what is considered one of the best teams of all time to win at UK with what 6-7 pros on that team...

As a "certain fan", my experience is that people who dismiss facts are people who don't like what the facts say. Compounded by the reality that it's kinda hard to argue with facts, although slapd!cks certainly do try!

No one here to my knowledge has said that Pitino Lite should win it all every year. Most including many LPT fans have agreed that he should have more than one title. And when you consider that title team had Davis, it's easy to reason that he won't win another one without another transcendental player. A lot of really good players (2010 or 2015) on one team won't do it for Lite.

The next paragraph of bull$hit above is largely your effort to lower the bar. When championships can't be won, it's good to focus on goals short of a championship. The only thing you're not mentioning is conference championships, which would be a bad joke in your case.

And Pitino never had the number of blue-chippers on his LPT teams that Lite has had. The best he did was Mercer, Turner, Delk, and Walker on one team (McDonald's AAs); but it took him four years to assemble that team, and he did in fact win a championship as he should have. Lite often brings in that many five-star kids in a single year.

But I'm sorry, those are facts. And you already said you didn't wanna see or hear any facts.

"Elite program", my a$$...

 

[Cue Card]

Prevailing UL sentiment was that even tho he could recruit, no one has ever won with Freshmen largely leading the way. Well, needless to say that sentiment didn't last long.

It wasn't a UofL sentiment. It was a national sentiment, and what you numb nuts want to ignore is you had TWO amazingly talented freshmen and players who returned due to the NBA lockout that led to UofK's championship. It wasn't Calipari. It was Anthony Davis and Michael Kidd-Gilchrist who made the biggest difference. It was Doran Lamb, and Terrance Jones who came back instead of jumping to the NBA. It was the SENIOR leadership of Darius Miller who kept the youngsters in check. Keep telling yourself Calipari won it with just freshmen if you want, but that's just rewriting history to support your narrative.

 

[Senore2006]

The truth is, NOBODY gives a damn about any of these college basketball games right now. All anyone is talking about on national radio and TV is NFL football and Clemson/Bama. After the NFL season ends, the focus will turn to the NFL draft and spring training. Duke/UNC gets some national run because ESPN crams it down our throats.

The only time NCAA basketball is relevant on a national scene is during the tourney. So yeah, nobody is watching Vandy @ Mississippi State on a Tuesday except Vandy and MSU fans - but the same can be said of pretty much any college basketball matchup this time of year. It's a niche sport, period.

That's not even close to true. For one thing, you watch your own teams' games religiously to take note of improvements and tendencies. And you pay attention to the others, some more than others.I personally think both basketball and football are in the way of baseball, lol. Just the same, it's an exciting sport if you are into it, for more reasons than you can count - at least on the half full cup side of a fan.

UK is UK. They can do whatever they like. I've lost substantial interest in them and it began under Calipari. You can only not hurl so many times.

 

[JohnKBA]

Right Senore, fans of programs are watching their own games - no disagreement there.

On a national level, CBB is off the radar until March.

 

[Atrain7732]

I'll be happy to...

As a "certain fan", my experience is that people who dismiss facts are people who don't like what the facts say. Compounded by the reality that it's kinda hard to argue with facts, although slapd!cks certainly do try!

No one here to my knowledge has said that Pitino Lite should win it all every year. Most including many LPT fans have agreed that he should have more than one title. And when you consider that title team had Davis, it's easy to reason that he won't win another one without another transcendental player. A lot of really good players (2010 or 2015) on one team won't do it for Lite.

The next paragraph of bull$hit above is largely your effort to lower the bar. When championships can't be won, it's good to focus on goals short of a championship. The only thing you're not mentioning is conference championships, which would be a bad joke in your case.

And Pitino never had the number of blue-chippers on his LPT teams that Lite has had. The best he did was Mercer, Turner, Delk, and Walker on one team (McDonald's AAs); but it took him four years to assemble that team, and he did in fact win a championship as he should have. Lite often brings in that many five-star kids in a single year.

But I'm sorry, those are facts. And you already said you didn't wanna see or hear any facts.

"Elite program", my a$$...

So, by explaining the actual FACTS behind your bar graphs & pie charts (I assume there is a power point presentation in the works as well) I am the one actually attempting to downplay or dismiss the facts? Well, we will just have to agree to disagree there.

I simply attempted to apply CONTEXT to your pie charts & graphs. You know, actually explain your desperate attempt to denigrate anything and everything UK related. Sorry that you are not open to being intellectually honest regarding all of your hard work. But, everything that I said was also true. Having a ton of 5-Stars is great. It is not the same as it used to be b/c of the one-and-done rule. That is fact. Cal/UK has had BY FAR the most 5-Star players leave early. FACT.

That is the current landscape of college basketball recruiting and Cal was at the forefront of that before Duke/Kansas/etc joined the fray. So, it is not dismissing the facts to actually attempt to shed light/explain them. You are the one attempting to obscure the essential context. Anyone can create a generic bar graph and make it appear to fit an argument. The real truth is behind the numbers at the heart of the premise.

You can try and make an argument that Cal/UK has under performed with the amount of talent accumulated, but it is not an argument held in any regard by established any basketball writers, coaches, or talking heads. I am sure you can find a bleacher report article to back you up, but we all know what that is.

FTR, I NEVER dismissed the assertion that UK should have another title. I actually agree that they should. I admitted that a couple of seasons ago, you know, when UK was with 1.5 games of pulling off a PERFECT SEASON, that they laid an egg in the second half against an overwhelmingly experienced and talented Wisconsin team. That loss hurt. UK SHOULD have won it all that year. Wall's team had problems with outside shooting all year and it was their Achilles heel. That loss hurt, but was not completely unexpected. I do think Duke would've beaten UK in the finals.

Also FTR, I admitted that Pitino is a bonafide HOF'er. I think he is on a very short list of the greatest coaches of all time. I also recognize UL's great and illustrious history. I don't need to show you a bar graph to prove that. It is widely accepted as being true.

I just find it funny when other fans/rivals/etc do all of these back flips in an attempt to justify a preconceived argument. You clearly decided you wanted ammo against UK/Cal and then went about creating an argument/stealing one. You would be better served to just acknowledge what is mainstream common thought--Cal & UK have had an amazing run since his arrival, only matched by maybe one/two other teams. Anything else makes you look desperate IMO.

And sorry, but to assert that Final Fours are no longer indicative of a successful season means that everyone of UL's seasons. save for 3, have been utter and complete failures.

Quit trying to change the argument as you go along. It doesn't suit you.

Or maybe it does. Your online persona/post history is completely filled with UK/Cal/Mitch Barnhart.

So, in that case, proceed.

 

[Atrain7732]

It wasn't a UofL sentiment. It was a national sentiment, and what you numb nuts want to ignore is you had TWO amazingly talented freshmen and players who returned due to the NBA lockout that led to UofK's championship. It wasn't Calipari. It was Anthony Davis and Michael Kidd-Gilchrist who made the biggest difference. It was Doran Lamb, and Terrance Jones who came back instead of jumping to the NBA. It was the SENIOR leadership of Darius Miller who kept the youngsters in check. Keep telling yourself Calipari won it with just freshmen if you want, but that's just rewriting history to support your narrative.

Well, I can only speak for my own "numb nuts" and no one else's. But, it was widely held sentiment by UL fans & SOME national media that a freshmen-laden team could not win a championship. I never said that it had to be a starting five of all freshmen. But, to say that the championship team was not freshmen laden is not being honest. The 2 best players, as you acknowledge, were Davis & MKG. Add Teague really coming on at the end of the year, and you have the definition of a freshmen oriented team.

Did Miller's experience and clutch shooting help. Of course. Did having Lamb/Jones back help. Of course. But it is semantics to say that UK team did not break the prevailing thought by some that Freshmen oriented teams could not win it all.

And I simply used the argument to highlight the shifting nature of UL fan's assertions. And it is just the nature of fandom to do these things. But, it was worth mentioning i thought. UK fan's create disingenuous arguments as much, or more, than other fans. It is nothing unique. But, I find it disingenuous no matter who is doing it.

 

[Cue Card]

Well, I can only speak for my own "numb nuts" and no one else's. But, it was widely held sentiment by UL fans & SOME national media that a freshmen-laden team could not win a championship. I never said that it had to be a starting five of all freshmen. But, to say that the championship team was not freshmen laden is not being honest. The 2 best players, as you acknowledge, were Davis & MKG. Add Teague really coming on at the end of the year, and you have the definition of a freshmen oriented team.

Did Miller's experience and clutch shooting help. Of course. Did having Lamb/Jones back help. Of course. But it is semantics to say that UK team did not break the prevailing thought by some that Freshmen oriented teams could not win it all.

And I simply used the argument to highlight the shifting nature of UL fan's assertions. And it is just the nature of fandom to do these things. But, it was worth mentioning i thought. UK fan's create disingenuous arguments as much, or more, than other fans. It is nothing unique. But, I find it disingenuous no matter who is doing it.

Then you should find yourself as disingenuous as anyone who posts here. That much is clear.

 

[Atrain7732]

Then you should find yourself as disingenuous as anyone who posts here. That much is clear.

Well I never said that I was above you, or anyone else, on this board. So, in that respect I guess you are right. We are all disingenuous when we want to be I suppose.

But, you still made a semantic argument. It certainly was UL fan thought that Cal couldn't win it all with a freshman oriented team. Many posts on this and other UL/rival sites proclaimed as much. Then, they did win.

And the argument shifted yet again. This time to one that conveniently did not compare the 2 schools head to head or overall record wise. This argument analyzed the one area where UK/UL differed most--elite recruiting prowess. It also went so far as to proclaim failure if UK/Cal didn't win it all with any multiple five-star recruiting class. That was my point. You picked a semantic straw man point from that argument in order to try and refute it.

I will mosey on back to the nether regions. Happened to be on here last night watching the football game. Just wanted to have some friendly banter. I do congratulate the Cards on the victory against UK this year, was a great game. You guys deserved one as well. For my money, I truly hope the two teams do not meet in the tourney. Too much intensity between both sides. But, I could def see the Cards making a post-season run this year.

 

[Cue Card]

But, you still made a semantic argument. It certainly was UL fan thought that Cal couldn't win it all with a freshman oriented team. Many posts on this and other UL/rival sites proclaimed as much. Then, they did win.

That team had two sophomores who wouldn't have been there had it not been for the NBA lockout and it's possible Miller would have left too. It's all speculation, but IMO the stars had to align just right (NBA lockout) for Calipari to have enough talent AND experience to get his inept coaching skills over the top to win the national championship.

He had one or the other several times in his past but never was able to get over the hump. It took a once in a lifetime talent (Anthony Davis), and another really good player (MKG) to go along with an improving point guard (Teague), and 3 very important AND experienced players (Miller, Jones, and Lamb) to win it all. It also didn't hurt that all 6 stayed healthy all year. All 6 made the NBA too. It is what it is.