Name Another NCAA Basketball Coach That Has Done Less With More Than Calipari

[Cue Card]

I said success not recruiting strategy, conference affiliation

He said success too along with results which in this instance means the same thing. You can have Calipari and his 'success'. We'll stick with the more traditional conventional college basketball program that is more than just a flash in the pan try out for the next level. Enjoy it. Learning new names every year will help keep your mind young.

 

[ukcatfaninsc]

BE your coach is known for rolling out the ball instead of actually coaching. Whatever they've learned was at the HS level.

GO CARDS - BEAT EVERYBODY!!! God Bless America!!!

Actually, he's not. If you have ever watched a UK practice, you know he does much more than just "roll the balls out".

 

[ukcatfaninsc]

He said success too along with results which in this instance means the same thing. You can have Calipari and his 'success'. We'll stick with the more traditional conventional college basketball program that is more than just a flash in the pan try out for the next level. Enjoy it. Learning new names every year will help keep your mind young.

it's two different approaches with the overall goal the same. All consistent top 10 programs have their systems in place. UK's has resulted in 4 Final Fours and a national Championship over the last 7 years. It's very difficult to argue with those results. Should there be more titles because of the talent? Maybe. But remember that all of those 5 stars were/are also very young. Cal's philosophy is to get the most talented players and try to win. Pitino's is to get 3-4 stars and coach them up to play their best when they're upper classmen, a philosophy which he had said he was planning on using before he left UK for the NBA. The results have been great success for both programs. it's not really fair or logical to say one is "better" than the other (the philosophy that is).

After seven years, I admit I do get a little frustrated learning new names every year and miss the days when good players would stay for 3 or 4 years. But that's the world and place we're in right now. Again, hard to argue with the results.

 

[Bill Derington]

I never stated how many titles Lite should have, except more than one. Nothing "disingenuous" about that--those are facts, difficult as they may be for an LPT fan to accept.

Class-to-class variation is probably a legit factor. But are you sure your problems last year were related to weakness of the 2015 class? Why didn't Lite land Ben Simmons or Diamond Stone instead of Labissiere? Those guys were all in the same class. If you're having issues with some of your five-star kids, whose fault is that? Could be Lite's a little better coach and a worse recruiter or evaluator of recruits.

But arguing that he doesn't have talent or doesn't try to rely on talent is, as you say, disingenuous.

"Elite program", my a$$...

Your chart of 5 stars didn't differentiate between years or players. All I'm saying is you can't simply use that as a good example of Calipari underachieving.
I do think certain years Cal's type of recruiting will lead to down years. Some years you just aren't going to get the best players, or players aren't going to be as good as previous years top talent. Some years it's going to be great. Overall at least to this point it's been successful.

I do wish the kids stayed longer, I don't think all of them or even most of them are ready for the pro's mentally.
I think that would improve basketball play at college, and the pro level. Unfortunately the Pro GM's aren't going to do that, and the longer a kid stays in college the more weaknesses scouts can pick out.

 

[ukcatfaninsc]

Depends on the coach. Is this a trick question? How does an entire vacated season stack up for ya in Lexington? Baron? Point Shaving Scandal? Try looking up ' Kentucky Wildcats Point Shaving Scandal - 1951. Oddly enough, UofK won the National Championships in 1948, 1949 and 1951. Weird stuff I know. Ya got to take the bad along with the good. Just own it.

No problem owning it. UK has had major violations in the past. no denying it. Now, own up to proving strippers and hookers for underage recruits to try and gain an unfair advantage.

 

[Cue Card]

No problem owning it. UK has had major violations in the past. no denying it. Now, own up to proving strippers and hookers for underage recruits to try and gain an unfair advantage.

I don't own that. I never (i'm assuming you meant) 'provided' strippers or hookers to anyone. I'll only own that a rogue former player of the team I support tried to act like big man of campus with that approach and all it did was run recruits off, and turned him into a Uber driver. Huge advantage for the Cardinals? LOL. OK.

 

[ukcatfaninsc]

I don't own that. I never (i'm assuming you meant) 'provided' strippers or hookers to anyone. I'll only own that a rogue former player of the team I support tried to act like big man of campus with that approach and all it did was run recruits off, and turned him into a Uber driver. Huge advantage for the Cardinals? LOL. OK.

You said "Just own it". Your words. So since I wasn't alive in the late 40's and 50's that means I don't have to own it then right? And I said, "try to gain an unfair advantage". Didn't say it worked.

 

[Cue Card]

You said "Just own it". Your words. So since I wasn't alive in the late 40's and 50's that means I don't have to own it then right? And I said, "try to gain an unfair advantage". Didn't say it worked.

Cool. So how many National Championships does your beloved UofK Wildcats have then? Can't say 8. You don't own all of them.

 

[ukcatfaninsc]

Cool. So how many National Championships does your beloved UofK Wildcats have then? Can't say 8. You don't own all of them.

Okay. Then by that same logic, you'd have to give up the 2013 title. Fair?

 

[Cue Card]

Okay. Then by that same logic, you'd have to give up the 2013 title. Fair?

How so? The program hasn't been put on any type of probation by the NCAA that I'm aware of. We are playing basketball this year, so I'm guessing the NCAA didn't BAN the team for any season like the 1952-53 UofK Wildcats were banned from playing. You know, it's called the DEATH penalty? UofK OWNS that distinction even if you as a fair weathered fan refuse to. On top of that, in spite of cheating and getting caught, the banners in 48, 49, and 51 are still hanging even though 2 of the main players on those teams were banned from ever playing the game again. Strange stuff but true.

Answer the question. Since you don't OWN anything UofK did before you were alive. How many titles does UK have? I'm guessing 3 at the most.

 

[ThroughBlue]

He said success too along with results which in this instance means the same thing. You can have Calipari and his 'success'. We'll stick with the more traditional conventional college basketball program that is more than just a flash in the pan try out for the next level. Enjoy it. Learning new names every year will help keep your mind young.

Three seniors this year that allgife valuable playing time. Last year we lost one freshman and sophomore to the draft. One senior and one junior transferred.

It would be one thing if Pitino didn't try to recruit the same kids but he does

 

[ukcatfaninsc]

How so? The program hasn't been put on any type of probation by the NCAA that I'm aware of. We are playing basketball this year, so I'm guessing the NCAA didn't BAN the team for any season like the 1952-53 UofK Wildcats were banned from playing. You know, it's called the DEATH penalty? UofK OWNS that distinction even if you as a fair weathered fan refuse to. On top of that, in spite of cheating and getting caught, the banners in 48, 49, and 51 are still hanging even though 2 of the main players on those teams were banned from ever playing the game again. Strange stuff but true.

Answer the question. Since you don't OWN anything UofK did before you were alive. How many titles does UK have? I'm guessing 3 at the most.

You were the one that started the "owning it" conversation. No, the NCAA has not yet ruled, but you did choose not to play in the post season last year and there is evidence that important players form the title team participated in the above mentioned activities.

I said I DID own UK's violations in the late 40's and early 50's. You chose not to own UL's because you didn't provide strippers or hookers. By that reasoning, since I, nor anyone else currently associated with the UK program, was not involved with UK in the late 40's and early 50's, we don't have to own it and can enjoy all 8 of our championships. Am I missing something?

 

[Cue Card]

Three seniors this year that allgife valuable playing time. Last year we lost one freshman and sophomore to the draft. One senior and one junior transferred.

It would be one thing if Pitino didn't try to recruit the same kids but he does

Does he 'really' recruit them or just give them the pass over type attempt? Pitino is the ego maniac who has to be center stage. He wouldn't do well with a DeMarcus Cousins type on the roster. When he gets that type, they usually end up transferring out.

I'll agree with Calipari on one thing he said because it is true. It takes a certain type of player to play at UofK. It takes the Alpha male type, and to Calipari's credit, most of the time he gets those Alpha Males to play together. He is a very good player manager and he's getting better at actually coaching during games too.

 

[Cue Card]

You were the one that started the "owning it" conversation. No, the NCAA has not yet ruled, but you did choose not to play in the post season last year and there is evidence that important players form the title team participated in the above mentioned activities.

I said I DID own UK's violations in the late 40's and early 50's. You chose not to own UL's because you didn't provide strippers or hookers. By that reasoning, since I, nor anyone else currently associated with the UK program, was not involved with UK in the late 40's and early 50's, we don't have to own it and can enjoy all 8 of our championships. Am I missing something?

I didn't choose anything. Don't you yet get it? Own your fandom. Own the good and bad AS A FAN but understand that you personally are NOT UofK. You are NOT the program. You are not a player (apologies if you are a current or former player). You do NOT make decisions like who plays, who doesn't, who gets to coach, who doesn't, who is offered a free ride, who doesn't. You're just a FAN. Nothing more. Please stop with the I chose this or that. I'm me. I am not UofL. I am not Rick Pitino. I am not Tom Jurich. I have no type of say in any type of decisions surrounding the program. I'm just a fan who OWNS THAT no matter what.

 

[ukcatfaninsc]

I didn't choose anything. Don't you yet get it? Own your fandom. Own the good and bad AS A FAN but understand that you personally are NOT UofK. You are NOT the program. You are not a player (apologies if you are a current or former player). You do NOT make decisions like who plays, who doesn't, who gets to coach, who doesn't, who is offered a free ride, who doesn't. You're just a FAN. Nothing more. Please stop with the I chose this or that. I'm me. I am not UofL. I am not Rick Pitino. I am not Tom Jurich. I have no type of say in any type of decisions surrounding the program. I'm just a fan who OWNS THAT no matter what.

But you said you didn't own it because you weren't involved in the activities. In the original exchange that started all of this, you said, "just own it". When I said I would own it, you said you didn't have to own UL's misdeeds. I'm just trying to understand the logic of why you expect me, as a fan, to own UK's past, but you don't have to own UL's.

 

[ukcatfaninsc]

Anyway, I'm sure we both wish our programs hadn't made some of the choices they've made in the past but we both clearly still love and support them. I think we've hijacked this topic enough. If you'd like to discuss it more, I would welcome that. Shoot me a PM.

 

[ukcatfaninsc]

Cal is loyal to kids and parents. He could have easily beat Wisconsin and gone on to crush duke in 2014. But he choose to go with Harrison twins. If he inserts Booker and Ulis in that game he wins. He knows it and has said as much. Criticize away but he had the balls to give those harrison kids a chance. Love or hate him he cared about those kids.

Should he gave more champuonships? Absolutely. But he isn't a bad coach. Pitino should hAve also beat Arizona in 1997. UK could easily have 11 championships. But the ride was good.

Love my Cats and Cal but this is a weak argument. The biggest criticism I have about Cal is that he seems to coach and run the program with recruiting as the primary focus. IE, playing the Harrisons over Ulis and Booker, giving Skal so many chances, platooning instead of going with the best 5 getting the most minutes, etc. But, it is still hard to argue against the results. And for those that say he's done it because of high seeds as a result of the SEC being weak, one of those FF's was at an 8 seed and one as a 4.

 

[Cue Card]

But you said you didn't own it because you weren't involved in the activities. In the original exchange that started all of this, you said, "just own it". When I said I would own it, you said you didn't have to own UL's misdeeds. I'm just trying to understand the logic of why you expect me, as a fan, to own UK's past, but you don't have to own UL's.

Dude you just want to argue to be arguing. It was fun for a bit but now you're just getting annoying. I'm done with you. Time to put you on ignore which means it's time for you to run along and create yet another new moniker. what a sad life you must live.

 

[ukcatfaninsc]

Dude you just want to argue to be arguing. It was fun for a bit but now you're just getting annoying. I'm done with you. Time to put you on ignore which means it's time for you to run along and create yet another new moniker. what a sad life you must live.

Oh well. I was enjoying the discussion. As I said, happy to let it go and move on. I live a pretty good life for what it's worth.

 

[feelthebeirne]

Just stunning the talent he has collected for the last 15 years and has one championship to show for it. He should thank the heavens each night that Anthony Davis played on a team he was called the coach of at UK. He'd be ringless without him.

This UK team has a very small chance to make noise in the NCAA Tournament. They are athletic, but not physical. Cal's best teams have been his most physical teams. This team is weak and does not defend well. A second Sweet Sixteen flameout in as many years plus this loss will leave the blue people grumbling all offseason.

And this question will be asked again next year, and the year after and so on( it's the same old rhetoric ! Come up with something new and I will applaud you for it iI
even giggle a little bit.

 

[BringBackRoyal]

That's not what this thread was about. it's not about what schools would trade accomplishments with UK since Calipari has been there, it's about how 1 National Title and 1 NIT appearance in 7 years while having 4-6 NBA draft picks on your team every season is underachieving, or not.

That's nice, but I was responding to a specific comment in his post.

 

[BringBackRoyal]

He has done nothing more than Pitino has at UL (who has manymany less five stars and a jauggernaut conference to play in )since he has been at UK. He's a clown

Really? He has more Final Fours at UK than Pitino does at UL -- in less than half the time.

 

[zipp]

Really? He has more Final Fours at UK than Pitino does at UL...

And thirty more blue-chippers.

"Elite program", my a$$...

 

[zipp]

And this question will be asked again next year, and the year after and so on( it's the same old rhetoric ! Come up with something new and I will applaud you for it iI
even giggle a little bit.

It will get even louder the longer Pitino Lite goes. And it will get deafening when another marquee coach gets another championship.

"Elite program", my a$$...

 

[Creo]

It will get even louder the longer Pitino Lite goes. And it will get deafening when another marquee coach gets another championship.

"Elite program", my a$$...

When they crash and burn in the Sweet 16 this year BBN will lose the inkling of sanity that still remains. I wonder if the Tubby championship will still widely be considered basically Pitino's once doing so means Pitino would be responsible for more than Cal won in the same timeframe at UK? Going to go out on a sturdy limb and guess that will then become 100% Tubby's doing.

 

[JohnKBA]

When they crash and burn in the Sweet 16 this year BBN will lose the inkling of sanity that still remains. I wonder if the Tubby championship will still widely be considered basically Pitino's once doing so means Pitino would be responsible for more than Cal won in the same timeframe at UK? Going to go out on a sturdy limb and guess that will then become 100% Tubby's doing.

Except Rick blew a certain title with a team FAR superior to that he left Tubby in 1998. Yeah, Rick had $50 million reasons to leave, but the fact that he was leaving a team that was going to be led by the likes of Jeff Sheppard, Scott Padgett, and Allen Edwards certainly factored into that decision.

CRP didn't win titles on at least 3 occasions with teams inferior to the 97-98 iteration of Kentucky. Hell, you guys smoked us that year.

I'm of the opinion that Calipari should have 1 more title at UK based on the talent he has brought in. CRP should have had 2 more during his UK tenure.

 

[JohnKBA]

And thirty more blue-chippers.

"Elite program", my a$$...

Ah - so CRP = mediocre recruiter/good coach.

Cal = good recruiter/mediocre coach. Sounds like a wash to me, so 4/1 >>> 2/1, especially when you factor in 8-2/2-0. Nice work there.

 

[shadow force]

I'm of the opinion that Calipari should have 1 more title at UK based on the talent he has brought in. CRP should have had 2 more during his UK tenure.

I'm curious which one team do you think should've won the NC but didn't under Calipari. With the talent on the John Wall and later with the Karl Towns team he should've won the NC. He couldn't even make the Final Four with John Wall, Cousins, Bledsoe, and Patterson on one team. That's 2 more where Cal should have won a title but didn't.

 

[JohnKBA]

I think one of the 2 should have won. The best team wins about half the time, and the 2010 Wall team wasn't even the overall #1 seed.

Basically saying that with 2010 and 2015, he should have won 50% of them despite the fact that he had the best team only once.

And before you guys chime in about the Wall team being the best despite the seeding, I have made the claim many times that 2009 UNC was the best, and been harshly rebuked and reminded that U of L was the best team that year because they had the #1 overall seed.

 

[Bill Derington]

They should have won in 2015, Cal blew that one.
2010 UK could've won, but the one weakness they had bit them in the ass against WVU. 3 point shooting, they were streaky all year. Now, UK needed Jody Meeks that year in the worst way.

 

[zipp]

Except Rick blew a certain title with a team FAR superior to that he left Tubby in 1998. Yeah, Rick had $50 million reasons to leave, but the fact that he was leaving a team that was going to be led by the likes of Jeff Sheppard, Scott Padgett, and Allen Edwards certainly factored into that decision.

CRP didn't win titles on at least 3 occasions with teams inferior to the 97-98 iteration of Kentucky. Hell, you guys smoked us that year...

Thanks for reminding us--another mistake LPT made... Running off Tubby.



"Elite program", my a$$...

 

[zipp]

Ah - so CRP = mediocre recruiter/good coach.

Cal = good recruiter/mediocre coach. Sounds like a wash to me, so 4/1 >>> 2/1, especially when you factor in 8-2/2-0. Nice work there.

Hey, I never said Pitino Lite wasn't a good recruiter...maybe the best ever, assuming he's doing it without cheating. These discussions usually break down coaching as between recruiting and bench coaching, among other things. In the most general sense applying to all forms of coaching, it doesn't include recruiting. (For example, there's no recruiting in high school...)

I understand and accept that logic while recognizing that Lite is paid to win championships without cheating but by whatever other means possible, such as recruiting. That said, you can't make a reasonable argument that a coach with the talent advantage below is doing a great job on the bench.

 

[BringBackRoyal]

And thirty more blue-chippers.

So what? The claim was that Calipari had not accomplished any more at UK than Pitino at UL. That is objectively false. How exactly Calipari got to his four Final Fours in less than half the time than Pitino has gotten to three is irrelevant to that claim.

 

[Creo]

So what? The claim was that Calipari had not accomplished any more at UK than Pitino at UL. That is objectively false. How exactly Calipari got to his four Final Fours in less than half the time than Pitino has gotten to three is irrelevant to that claim.

Well, he hasn't. They both have one NCAA championship. And, as Zipp's charts show, no one in all of college basketball has done less with more than Cal. Overwhelmingly more.

 

[zipp]

So what? The claim was that Calipari had not accomplished any more at UK than Pitino at UL. That is objectively false...

If we're referencing the topic of the thread, you're wrong. It's name a coach who "has done less with more..."

The "more" reference is to talent, which Creo clearly states in the OP. That's why the talent comparison I linked is highly relevant and undeserving of a "so what?" reply--understanding of course that the reply comes from a slappy.

"Elite program", my a$$...

 

[BringBackRoyal]

Well, he hasn't.

Reaching four Final Fours in less than half the time that someone else reaches three Final Fours is accomplishing more. Hope that helps.

 

[BringBackRoyal]

If we're referencing the topic of the thread, you're wrong. It's name a coach who "has done less with more..."

Well, "we're" not, so you're wasting your breath. I was responding to a specific comment within the thread. I've already addressed the OP in earlier posts.

understanding of course that the reply comes from a slappy.

I'm guessing this is your nickname for UK fans, so I'll have to repeat yet again that I'm not a UK fan. See my original post where I refer to Calipari as "pure sleaze." The only teams I dislike more than UK are Kansas, Oklahoma, Duke, and Ohio State. I'm just providing commentary as an impartial observer (or, if anything, as an observer partial to UL in any UK vs. UL contest).

 

[bigloucards]

uk is looking like a good JUCO program to where the players are going to be gone within a year or two. Scal just riding the one and done talent! UK=1&DoneU

 

[JohnKBA]

uk is looking like a good JUCO program to where the players are going to be gone within a year or two. Scal just riding the one and done talent! UK=1&DoneU

What an astute observation.

 

[UK082371]

Really? The guy in 7 years has a NC. A 38-1 to his 4th final 4. Has won more then any other coach while at UK. Has created A culture and A brand thats considered one of the best in all sports. Owe and not one NCAA violation during his stay.

Its hard to win it all. But as long as your in the conversation every year your winning. And dont forget that every year is basically a new team with raw young men. If you can't see just what he has accomplished, then you have an agenda and know nothing about coll bball.