This team has 8 contributors.
Cunningham
Fore
Sutton
Nwora
Williams
Enoch
McMahon
Perry
Losing most would mean 5-6 moving on after the season. Who are the 5-6 moving on?
Fore, Cunningham.... the other 3-4 are?
Big Picture for this Season
- Thread starter davecmc
- Start date
This team has 8 contributors.
Cunningham
Fore
Sutton
Nwora
Williams
Enoch
McMahon
Perry
Losing most would mean 5-6 moving on after the season. Who are the 5-6 moving on?
Fore, Cunningham.... the other 3-4 are?
Please let it be Perry.
Please let it be Perry.
Please let it be Perry.
Please let it be Perry.
Please let it be Perry.
I liked what I saw from Perry today, hope he keeps improving. It's gonna be him and David Johnson at the point next year (maybe occasional minutes there from McMahon) or else Mack will have to get another grad transfer.
And I don't think anyone else is ready to go pro.
Other than hit two outside shots - the same shots he’s missed the last 12 games - he didn’t do anything better / different than he’s been doing. Bad handle - bad turnover(s) and questionable decisions. If he’s the point next year - UofL is in deep trouble.
I don't disagree that Perry's ball handling is an issue and that the point guard position has to be an issue for next year, which is why I bring up the grad transfer possibility. But Perry only had one turnover today, and he played some solid defense, plus he did hit those shots. I think he can be a real contributor.
Perry's problem is he has no mental toughness. He makes a bad play and then mopes around about it. He reminds me of Russ Smith with his reckless play. It's just when Russ made a bad play, he made up for it by hustling and making a good play.
I've said this for awhile now... In addition to the three seniors, we're losing Nwora and Enoch with 99% certainty. I also think we will lose either Williams or King. It's not a sure thing that Sutton will return, but I think it's likely...
Who are the 3 SRs that contribute? I thought they only had 2.
Surely you aren't trying to claim Agau's 1.9 PPG and 6 MPG count as some sort of consequential contribution. The guy has been a DNP-CD 4 of last 5, and the one game he played he got 4 minutes. He's averaging under 2 MPG in ACC play.
King is not one of the contributors either. He's averaged 7 MPG in ACC play, and 3 MPG over the last 5.
There are 8 guys in the rotation. We know 2 are gone. That is all we know. I have not seen any quotes from any other players stating this is it for them. I am aware it is highly possible more do not return than the 2 SR - but it's all speculation right now. It seems like a bit of a stretch to say the majority are going to leave, but I admit I am speculating now too.
No, I'm not calling Agau, Fore, or King "contributors". But I'm also not labeling the Top 8 by playing time with that.
The major contributors on this team IMO are Cunningham, Nwora, Enoch, Sutton, and Williams. I'd put Fore, Perry, McMahon, and King down as logging minutes but hardly indispensable. Again IMO, we're losing 3 of the first group (of 5) for sure, and 50-50 on Williams. If I want to roll Sutton's odds in there, it's a high probability (90+%) that we lose 4 of those 5. That's why I say "most" will be gone.
Not saying you're in this group, but hometown fans consistently lowball the odds of losing players early to the pros. You'll actually hear people argue that Nwora will return which is crazy. Or Enoch who is now four years out of high school. Those two are history along with Cunningham who is extremely valuable to this team.
And I'm similarly pessimistic on the immediate contributions of the incoming freshmen despite Mack's coaching abilities. I like the quality of these guys, but they're not ranked high enough to be immediately successful based on talent alone. That's what OAD kids do, which these guys are NOT...
The major contributors on this team IMO are Cunningham, Nwora, Enoch, Sutton, and Williams. I'd put Fore, Perry, McMahon, and King down as logging minutes but hardly indispensable. Again IMO, we're losing 3 of the first group (of 5) for sure, and 50-50 on Williams. If I want to roll Sutton's odds in there, it's a high probability (90+%) that we lose 4 of those 5. That's why I say "most" will be gone.
Not saying you're in this group, but hometown fans consistently lowball the odds of losing players early to the pros. You'll actually hear people argue that Nwora will return which is crazy. Or Enoch who is now four years out of high school. Those two are history along with Cunningham who is extremely valuable to this team.
And I'm similarly pessimistic on the immediate contributions of the incoming freshmen despite Mack's coaching abilities. I like the quality of these guys, but they're not ranked high enough to be immediately successful based on talent alone. That's what OAD kids do, which these guys are NOT...
King is simply not in the same zip code as Fore, McMahon, or Perry. Being a consistent part of the rotation qualifies as a key contributor. But if you want to restrict this to heavy lifters that's fine too, because back end rotation players are certainly easier to replace.
I'm fully aware the college player today has one foot out the door upon arrival. I had to tell YOU Deng Adel was turning pro last year when you were counting him as a returning player for Mack LOL!
The new rule allowing players to return to school if/when they go undrafted could have some impact on guys returning. We just don't know 100% sure what their life goals are. Unless you have had conversations with them or their family. If you have, well, then you are an insider.
I'm fully aware the college player today has one foot out the door upon arrival. I had to tell YOU Deng Adel was turning pro last year when you were counting him as a returning player for Mack LOL!
The new rule allowing players to return to school if/when they go undrafted could have some impact on guys returning. We just don't know 100% sure what their life goals are. Unless you have had conversations with them or their family. If you have, well, then you are an insider.
Who knows which will stay or go. But let’s say your correct and we lose three of the four. Well as long as we hang on to just one of the big guys we should be ok. Not NC ok but building ok. Mack will then have a base of quality players for year 3. And if he can duplicate the in coming recruiting class next year all should be good. But you very well could be correct on who we lose; who can argue that point.
The returning scorer for this year's team was VJ King, and there were zero blue chip prospects signed on. Given the result we've seen from Mack with that circumstance, I'm going to refrain from worrying about next year's team.
Agree. If he can spell both guard spots,it helps our legs late into these games.
We aren’t losing 3-4 of our current starters. That will not happen. Obviously CC and Fore will be gone but I would bet that the rest stay. Nwora and Enoch may test the waters but we will not lose all 3 of Nwora, Enoch and Williams. At this point, I seriously doubt we lose even one.
Of the underclassmen, I think Nwora is the one that will go pro. I don't follow draft boards or anything but the scouts really like his shooting ability , rebounding and size, though he needs to work on other aspects like ball handling. He also needs to find what position to fill in the pros if he does leave.
Think Enoch and Williams will test the waters and yes, I think Nwora is all but gone.
Maybe, you’ll pay full price for basketball lowers so you don’t have to worry that the actual ticket holders will tap those (narrow) shoulders and tell you to leave.
Are you willing to bet leaving the board for good?
Nwora has clearly created quite an NBA profile. He's got unlimited range and a lot of talent. There is no doubt he at the very least tests the waters. I would be pleasantly surprised if he returned.
Zipp you make a valid point about Enoch's age potentially being a factor in his exit - I recall an interview he gave where he spoke to being very interested in his studies. I'm not going to pretend to make a prediction on him or anybody else really.
Most the players get their evaluation, and then decide based on the feedback. The new rule of allowing players to return after declaring if they don't get drafted is an interesting wrinkle.
I also understand there could be a rotation player transfer out.
We shall see.
Zipp you make a valid point about Enoch's age potentially being a factor in his exit - I recall an interview he gave where he spoke to being very interested in his studies. I'm not going to pretend to make a prediction on him or anybody else really.
Most the players get their evaluation, and then decide based on the feedback. The new rule of allowing players to return after declaring if they don't get drafted is an interesting wrinkle.
I also understand there could be a rotation player transfer out.
We shall see.
People around the program think the opposite. He will likely test the waters but he’s not on any draft boards right now, and most seem to think he’ll be back next year. Obviously that can change but year 2 under Mack would do wonders for him.
Getting an NBA shot ain't the overriding factor. It's about whether they think they can improve their income potential staying in college. If that's not probable, they leave. And a guy that's 22-years old in Enoch's case is pretty much max-ed out...
These last minute meltdowns made me curious so I went back to Xavier’s 2018 tournament game against FSU. Xavier had a 12 point lead with 10 minutes to go and couldn’t secure the win. Maybe we shouldn’t be so hasty to lay the blame entirely on players with no talent.
He's young and missed a year of development (no offense to DP, that was an impossible situation for him and not his fault).
Curious I wonder if Spalding and Adel thought it was a wasted year? What’s ironic is that we have two big men that don’t have any post up moves.
Good point. Handling pressure isn't just about talent. Sure if you have a three great ball handlers, it helps. But it's mostly about spacing, communication, and decision making. Those elements of team play are coached, not recruited.
Mack needs to raise that part of his game, and the sooner the better. The caliber of teams he's playing now will eat his lunch...
I recall the sentiment that these bets are not in the best interests of the website ownership since they result in people leaving, which I understand. So the bet needs to be for a finite but meaningful period of time, like six months.
So, Nwora leaves and so do you until next Fall. Otherwise I do. I'm down for that. The only qualifier I want is that he stays healthy...
I seem to recall - just several short posts ago - you spouting some nonsense about you betting a “mortgage” that both Nwora and Enoch would be leaving. My bet therefore includes both leaving the program and would be for a permanent departure from the board for the loser - not some ridiculous six months. Additionally in the real big boy world of betting - there are no “qualifiers” based on things like injury.
Surprise surprise that he changed his mind on who he guaranteed was leaving when you laid down the stakes...lol
Lol - I'm sure you were as shocked as I was. In truth, I completely expected it - it's what he does and, who he is.
I'd rather you not have to hope the guy gets injured on your side of that bet, which has nothing to do fundamentally with the guy's opinion of his pro basketball potential.
And I clearly said a mortgage per guy. Multiplying probabilities reduces overall probability, reducing my odds. If you wanna bet 3 months for me, 6 months for you, and combine those players, I'm good with that.
Let me know...
I didn't change anything. I just clarified the terms. It's his decision. You notice he didn't wanna bet mortgages AKA serious "stakes"...
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