I have no hypothesis, just facts. AND I have comparative evidence to blow up your approach to the argument...
Wasn't the popular narrative that U of L football coaches?...
- Thread starter zipp
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It may just seem like circles to a clown show apologist. Are you telling me that Jurich never faced $14 million decisions? How many examples do you want?
All of your stuff is hypothetical. A simple "Vince" is as good as Jurich narrative-- in defense of a guy who can't raise money and keeps driving the bank accounts lower.
THAT's the guy you're making excuses for with hypotheticals...
The first thing I remember Jurich doing was firing Coach Crum. Tom had the luxury of terminating a long term, and beloved coach under a contract in line with other contracts at the time. A contract put in place by Tom’s predecessor. That was about 20 years ago. I don’t recall any talk at the time of renegotiating Coach Crum’s severance because Jurich was a contract wizard, or to save money for a cash strapped athletic department.
Tyra on the other hand has had to fire a lot of duds that were not performing. A couple were even an embarrassment to the university despite the winning is all that matters mentality Tom brought here.
Tyra on the other hand has had to fire a lot of duds that were not performing. A couple were even an embarrassment to the university despite the winning is all that matters mentality Tom brought here.
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Jurich gave him a job worth 7M to raise money and he raised less than a million. Doesn’t sound like a really wise hire by Jurich. Also, I guess you haven’t read the audit report done on the foundation about the other several million Crum got. Maybe get up to speed before you continue to pop off.
Jurich did nothing for Crum. He made a terrible mistake making the situation with Crum as public as possible. It was first Shoemaker who saved the day by negotiating the terms of Crum's retirement, and then second Denny himself who helped soothe things over by insisting he was retiring of his own accord.
LOL... Talk about revisionism. Jurich was widely regarded for his ability to search out coaches, but we had a "lot of duds" that a greenhorn AD knew how to replace.
Some of you guys can talk yourselves into anything...
Oh, I read the audit results which still haven't turned up anything prosecutable. Just a lotta fluff about procedures. If anyone stole millions from a public institution, there'd be criminal trials. Instead, nada.
What you cited was a JOURNALISM reference to the audit, not the audit itself. That's another step removed.
And as I said, Jurich gave a Louisville legend $2 million and job. Not $14 million like your guy just did to a coach in disgrace.
But all of that's more testament to "Vince" than anyone else...
Crum stayed years beyond when he should have left, and he almost ground the program he built back into the dirt. If he had any sense and dignity at the time, he would have suggested his own "retirement".
Almost twenty years later, people forget most of the truth...
The NCAA mens basketball tournament banners (1980 and 1986) remaining in our rafters were put there under Coach Crum. As for a football championship, we may remain on a collision course, but it ain't happened yet. Despite Toms's hires and rehires of football coaches.
It appears that it is you that have forgotten the truth. Jurich did not "give" Denny $2 million, rather it was Shoemaker who saved the day by negotiating Denny's retirement agreement. Jurich was playing hardball and things were about to get real ugly before Shoemaker stepped in at the last minute to resolve the situation. At least you should be able to get that part straight, no matter how much you want to continue the nonsense about Petrino accepting a lesser buyout from Jurich than he was owed, which is your own hypothetical in a thread that you yourself hijacked from your own original position.
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I think that Tyra has fired all of two of Jurich's coaches - Kellie Young (lacrosse) and Petrino. Do you really think either of them should have been allowed to ground their programs further "into the dirt"?
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I am not an apologist for anyone. There is just no evidence that Jurich would have been able to do anything different from what Vince NQ did in this case. As regards examples, just give me one where TJ had to buy out a 14 million dollar contract, and somehow talked his way out of that contract to a significantly lower payout. That’s a little different from the vague “14 million dollar decisions”. As regards hypotheticals, there are none, nor are there “excuses”. Jurich honored contracts. Can you name a single example of a time he did not? Can you name a single time he negotiated the termination of a contract at a lower escape cost? Was that contract with someone who had no reason to take less money? Your whole argument is absurd. You argue that someone would have done something they contractually could not do, and ethically would not do based on his own history. This is not an apology for Vince NQ or anyone in the current administration. It is simply my insistence on living in the real world. I invite you to join me.
LOL... Jurich went from Ron Cooper to BCS bowl games and the ACC. But he couldn't win a national championship.
Let's see how fast "Vince" nails one...
I don't remember any of that, but I'll be more than happy to read an independent reference.
What I do know is that Crum received $2 million from athletics and a new job. I'm not even sure the 'new job' part was Jurich's responsibility; that sounded like it would have been Shoemaker's business.
$2 mil is what Jurich shelled out, and that's pocket money to "Vince"...
"Vince" getting rid of "dud" coaches was a clown narrative I didn't make. Ask the clown.
No question, however, "Vince" has had to replace 6-7 coaches already--I'm losing count...
That by definition is a "Vince" hypothetical.
Same thing I told the other guy... If you can't accept the guy's track record and results as evidence, show me what "Vince" did specifically--NOT transferable skills--to deserve the AD job. Otherwise, that's a double standard.
I'll simply repeat the facts...
- Jurich never paid $14 million for any purpose without greater return.
- "Vince" can't raise money and is draining bank accounts.
- Jurich was not in the job and didn't pay Petrino's buyout.
- "Vince" was.
No. Your hypothetical is that TJ would have done something he never did - break a contract. My hypothetical is that Vince NQ had no choice because there was A WRITTEN CONTRACT which bound the university and Bobby and that Jurich would have been similarly bound.
We know what Vince NQ did. I would be willing to listen to any argument or evidence which explains HOW Jurich gets Bobby to accept significantly less to go away. You never touch this. You use TJ’s history of never paying 14 mill without greater return (I don’t know that this is true, but I suspect it is). But ignore his history of honoring contracts. How does TJ get Bobby to accept significantly less?
As regards whether Vince NQ “deserves” the AD job, that’s a different subject. He would not have been my choice. I think he is doing the best he can, but he is not well-equipped for this. I still believe when Grissom goes, Dr Bendapudi will find a way for Vince NQ to make a graceful exit. She does have connections at KU, who has an excellent AD. Maybe they go for someone in that athletic department. Just a theory.
And you - in typical “zipp” fashion - deflected with some silly BS that has nothing at all to do with the point that was made, about nothing being “prosecutable”.
I've already covered this ground... They had a relationship in much the same manner that Jurich did with Pitino. It's widely accepted that the clowns mishandled Pitino's exit, for the most part, because Jurich wasn't at the controls. Same with Petrino.
And in hindsight, that relationship was correlated with on-the-field results. Did "Vince" cause Petrino to fail? Not directly, but his presence was correlated with that outcome. The football program--like all of the programs--was put in the hands of "Vince". Thus far, we've had dismal results on and off the field...
No, that was me blowing up your evidence again. Bring better evidence next time...
I never said a thing about conduct outlined in the audit as unlawful or prosecutable - I said that the results showed Denny Crum was paid 7M from 2010-2017 - which was over and above the 10.8M he got as a result of his dismissal.
And given your losing record in court, your idea of “better evidence” is meaningless.
With zero correct assessments or even accurate reporting of history, this post is laughable on its face.
Props for consistency at least “zipp”.
you have NOT covered that ground. They had a “relationship”? Are you serious? I’ve covered that ground too. Way, way above I recreated a likely conversation between Jurich and Bobby. It was tongue in cheek, but more or less the way things had to go. This goes beyond hypothetical into fantasy. Why would Bobby give up money he was contractually owed? Lay it out for me, please. I’m just an Oklahoma Aggie and I may not follow your highly sophisticated arguments. Perhaps there is some subtle point I am missing. Exactly HOW was TJ to rip off CBP?
More stalking. Creepy.
You tried to use the audit as evidence, and I debunked the quality of that evidence. Alleged criminal activity with nothing prosecuted. As I said, bring better evidence.
"Jurich and Petrino had a relationship." Nothing hypothetical about that.
"Fanboy had the AD job, and Jurich didn't." Still nothing hypothetical.
"Fanboy sold the ranch." Can't find a hypothetical anywhere.
The rest of this argument is grounded in YOUR hypotheticals. Call it what you want...
You seem a bit thick. Let’s try this one more time. Jurich would have been able to magically get Bobby to come down significantly off what he was contractually owed. How? HYPOTHETICALLY, he had some magic technique which would do the trick. You never say what that is. There is no basis in Jurich’s past behavior to believe he had ever done this before. Your whole point is based on vapor......on thin air.....on, well, Zipp.
My argument's based on 20 years of history. Jurich never paid significant sums of money without raising it or without immediately offsetting sources of funds.
"Vince" keeps raiding the Hickman Camp Fund and other U of L bank accounts because he's having problems in that regard. "Thick" is not being able to relate that. Or just simply...
In that 20 years of history, did Jurich ever fail to honor a contract? The picture is cute, but it’s not argument. It is, rather, avoidance of argument. I don’t blame you, what you have been doing so far is weak. Is your new argument that somehow Jurich would have raised the money to pay off Bobby? This is a new angle. Up until now, it was his magical “relationship” that would do it. Now if I understand he would raise the money first. Of course, this is yet another, new hypothetical. The advantage of this one is that it requires no facts in support (not that you have done that with your other theories). You simply assume that if Jurich was able to raise money in the past that it would always be there in the future. He may well have raised it over time. But this is not a trivial amount. He would have had little time, for the season unwound with surprising speed. Also, he would have had to move fast to secure a replacement coach. In order to pull that off how does he NOT borrow from the H-C fund? UofL is not Texas. It doesn’t have an army of super-donors ready to write a check of that size. What’s he going to do- sell naming rights to the parking lots?My argument's based on 20 years of history. Jurich never paid significant sums of money without raising it or without immediately offsetting sources of funds.
"Vince" keeps raiding the Hickman Camp Fund and other U of L bank accounts because he's having problems in that regard. "Thick" is not being able to relate that. Or just simply...
“I tailgated in the Kroger Fire Bobby Petrino lot last week”.
Not only that, but if he didn’t borrow from Hickman-Camp, and somehow got the dough, it would have severely limited the department in other areas of potential growth, because that source of funds would be a dry well going forward, at least for a while.
The simple reality is that though TJ was a great AD and Vince NQ is a placeholder (I think and hope) he would not have handled the Petrino case differently from Vince NQ. This is because he COULD not have handled it differently; and that was no one’s fault but his own.
If you ever think that you’ll get a straight answer out of this specimen - you’re pissing up a rope.
The audit is evidence that the foundation paid Crum 7M from 2010 to 2017 - which was my only point. You and you alone are the one raising the specter of illegality.More stalking. Creepy.
You tried to use the audit as evidence, and I debunked the quality of that evidence. Alleged criminal activity with nothing prosecuted. As I said, bring better evidence.
Stating that something isn’t evidence simply because you don’t like it’s quality is a childish intellectual fail. It’s no wonder you keep getting spanked in court.
Nice try... Turning facts into hypotheticals.
Jurich wouldn't have had to generate money. Fortunately, HISTORY SHOWS that he did raise money. YOUR hypothetical--in the face of history--is that he wouldn't have raised that money going forward.
And it's similarly factual that "Vince" doesn't raise money. He just spends it.
I understand how, in the absence of facts, you would resort to hypotheticals--which makes me glad to be on my side of this debate...
Guy who introduces himself to "specimens" (word of the day).
Chicken $hit stalker to an extreme. And with flimsy evidence--naturally...
Your side if the debate relies entirely on fantasy. IF Jurich was still AD he would have
1. Fired Bobby
2. Negotiated a settlement significantly lower than the contractually agreed buyout.
3. Vince NQ unnecessarily paid Bobby’s buyout.
Number 1 we agree on (I think). Jurich had acted swiftly and forcefully to protect marquee programs before. He likely would have again. Vince NQ did what TJ would have done, because it was necessary.
Number 2 is where we disagree. I tried to give you a little help above, when you seemed to suggest TJ’s money raising skill would save the day. In this scenario He would come up with that huge chunk of cash from some unknown deep pocket donor (if only T. Boone Pickens had gone to UofL) and pay Bobby off without raiding the HC fund or other “piggy banks”. That would be a long shot, but at least you might make something of an argument. Instead, you shot that thought down and went right back to the Jedi mind trick theory. They had a “relationship”. Bobby also had a relationship with his agent, who gets paid to protect his client’s interests under that contract. He also gets a percentage of that settlement. There is no evidence whatsoever, your ridiculous assertions notwithstanding, that TJ would fail to honor the contact HE SIGNED or that Bobby would take less than he was owed. No history of that for either guy.
The historical evidence you call “facts” are also facts on my side of the argument, which is frankly becoming tiresomely one-sided in my favor.
Item 3. Is another disagreement. If TJ couldn’t raise that kind of coin that fast, I doubt Vince NQ could have. Where was Bobby’s buyout coming from? TJ would have gone to that rainy day fund because it was raining. He would have done the same thing Vince NQ did, because there was no other choice. You have offered no alternate path to that money for either man.
Are we not comparing a 7 game home with the coming 6 game home schedule? The money was in the till before the disaster happened last year. We are counting on the enthusiasm for the new coach to keep season ticket sales up. That may not happen but it is possible that single game sales this year could be better if the team produces "much" better. BTW Zipp, I like to read your thoughts. Do not have to agree to enjoy them.
In case you don't understand your own reasoning, you're creating hypotheticals AND you're trying to create them for my side of the debate as well. THAT'S YOU, NOT ME.
I'm presenting facts without hypotheticals. Granted, they don't help your side of the debate.
It all distills down to: Jurich raised money, "Vince" spends money.
Now if you can try real hard... Let's stop talking about Jurich.
I'll let the guy whom I was addressing decide if/how he wants to take the bet. So far, the crickets are chirping for him.
Glad you like some of my posts, and I'd be a little concerned if anyone agreed with all of them...
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