ADVERTISEMENT

Wasn't the popular narrative that U of L football coaches?...

Your side if the debate relies entirely on fantasy. IF Jurich was still AD he would have
1. Fired Bobby
2. Negotiated a settlement significantly lower than the contractually agreed buyout.
3. Vince NQ unnecessarily paid Bobby’s buyout.

Number 1 we agree on (I think). Jurich had acted swiftly and forcefully to protect marquee programs before. He likely would have again. Vince NQ did what TJ would have done, because it was necessary.
Number 2 is where we disagree. I tried to give you a little help above, when you seemed to suggest TJ’s money raising skill would save the day. In this scenario He would come up with that huge chunk of cash from some unknown deep pocket donor (if only T. Boone Pickens had gone to UofL) and pay Bobby off without raiding the HC fund or other “piggy banks”. That would be a long shot, but at least you might make something of an argument. Instead, you shot that thought down and went right back to the Jedi mind trick theory. They had a “relationship”. Bobby also had a relationship with his agent, who gets paid to protect his client’s interests under that contract. He also gets a percentage of that settlement. There is no evidence whatsoever, your ridiculous assertions notwithstanding, that TJ would fail to honor the contact HE SIGNED or that Bobby would take less than he was owed. No history of that for either guy.
The historical evidence you call “facts” are also facts on my side of the argument, which is frankly becoming tiresomely one-sided in my favor.
Item 3. Is another disagreement. If TJ couldn’t raise that kind of coin that fast, I doubt Vince NQ could have. Where was Bobby’s buyout coming from? TJ would have gone to that rainy day fund because it was raining. He would have done the same thing Vince NQ did, because there was no other choice. You have offered no alternate path to that money for either man.
Clearly you forgot the Jedi mind trick Part II of the equation where Jurich - as he was known for during his tenure - would make things so uncomfortable for petrino and his staff of family members, that Bobby would simply resign and leave all the money on the table because Tom was such a meanie. :rolleyes:
 
The first thing I remember Jurich doing was firing Coach Crum. Tom had the luxury of terminating a long term, and beloved coach under a contract in line with other contracts at the time. A contract put in place by Tom’s predecessor. That was about 20 years ago. I don’t recall any talk at the time of renegotiating Coach Crum’s severance because Jurich was a contract wizard, or to save money for a cash strapped athletic department.

Tyra on the other hand has had to fire a lot of duds that were not performing. A couple were even an embarrassment to the university despite the winning is all that matters mentality Tom brought here.

No, the first thing Jurich did was fire Cooper. That was after the 1997 football season. Crum "retired" in 2001.
 
  • Like
Reactions: gocds
Clearly you forgot the Jedi mind trick Part II of the equation where Jurich - as he was known for during his tenure - would make things so uncomfortable for petrino and his staff of family members, that Bobby would simply resign and leave all the money on the table because Tom was such a meanie. :rolleyes:
That's YOUR hypothetical.

Jurich didn't pay $14 million to get outta any problem or situation. That's my fact...
 
That's YOUR hypothetical.

Jurich didn't pay $14 million to get outta any problem or situation. That's my fact...
He paid 10.8M to Crum plus the extra 7M on top.

Next you’ll be saying that TJ didn’t pay 14M to a football coach...
 
That's YOUR hypothetical.

Jurich didn't pay $14 million to get outta any problem or situation. That's my fact...
He didn’t pay because he wasn’t in that situation before. Here’s MY facts-
  1. he never violated a contract.
  2. Bobby had a contract
  3. You have not even tried to explain how he negotiates that down significantly.
Your hypothetical is that he would have SOMEHOW had a different result from Vince NQ because, because.....well that’s where you sort of vanish.
 
I think that Tyra has fired all of two of Jurich's coaches - Kellie Young (lacrosse) and Petrino. Do you really think either of them should have been allowed to ground their programs further "into the dirt"?

Lacrosse had a winning record and NCAA appearances under its previous coach, then promptly had a losing record last year under the "successful businessman's" new hire. Yes, I know the off-the-field issues were not ideal, but in terms of wins and losses, she wasn't running that program "into the dirt," or better yet, FieldTurf.

JP
 
  • Like
Reactions: zipp
Lacrosse had a winning record and NCAA appearances under its previous coach, then promptly had a losing record last year under the "successful businessman's" new hire. Yes, I know the off-the-field issues were not ideal, but in terms of wins and losses, she wasn't running that program "into the dirt," or better yet, FieldTurf.

JP
McDonnel?
 
He didn’t pay because he wasn’t in that situation before. Here’s MY facts-
  1. he never violated a contract.
  2. Bobby had a contract
  3. You have not even tried to explain how he negotiates that down significantly.
Your hypothetical is that he would have SOMEHOW had a different result from Vince NQ because, because.....well that’s where you sort of vanish.
In two decades, Jurich never faced a comparable situation? I'm estimating he oversaw $1.5-2.0 billion of revenue in that time frame. Your assertion is ridiculous.

And if you wanna stick by the "exact same" narrative... What precisely did "Vince" do in a prior life to prove he could handle the AD's job? Same analysis...
 
In two decades, Jurich never faced a comparable situation? I'm estimating he oversaw $1.5-2.0 billion of revenue in that time frame. Your assertion is ridiculous.

And if you wanna stick by the "exact same" narrative... What precisely did "Vince" do in a prior life to prove he could handle the AD's job? Same analysis...
I noticed you didn’t cite a case in which he was contractually obligated to pay 14 mill and didn’t pay it. You didn’t cite a case where he violated said contract. Instead, you retreat into the “he handled lots of money, so he must have done something like this before” argument. Talk about hypotheticals...
The argument is not about Vince NQ’s credentials. We both know he had none, other than his last name. That diversion doesn’t change the FACTS shaping the decision that had to be made about Bobby. He did what Jurich would have done. He had no choice, and neither would Tom Jurich.
 
I noticed you didn’t cite a case in which he was contractually obligated to pay 14 mill and didn’t pay it. You didn’t cite a case where he violated said contract. Instead, you retreat into the “he handled lots of money, so he must have done something like this before” argument. Talk about hypotheticals...
The argument is not about Vince NQ’s credentials. We both know he had none, other than his last name. That diversion doesn’t change the FACTS shaping the decision that had to be made about Bobby. He did what Jurich would have done. He had no choice, and neither would Tom Jurich.
In addition to basing your position in hypotheticals, I noticed you're trying to narrow or move the goalposts...
 
In addition to basing your position in hypotheticals, I noticed you're trying to narrow or move the goalposts...
WHAT???
Fact - Jurich always honored contracts
Fact- Bobby had a contract
Fact- you have not produced any possible reason for Bobby to take less than the contracted payout.

These are facts. You may call them “hypotheticals” all you want. But they are not hypotheticals. They are facts. Period.
Unfortunately, the argument turns on a hypothetical scenario- your assertion that TJ, if he had still been AD, would have gotten us out from under the Bobby payout. I say he wouldn’t because he couldn’t. Your counter is pure fantasy - that through Jedi mind tricks, or his magical “relationship” with Bobby, or some other slight of hand, Jurich would have made the whole thing go away.

I don’t know what you refer to about narrowing or moving goalposts. Just more boiler plate from your limited arsenal of arguments, I suppose.
 
WHAT???
Fact - Jurich always honored contracts
Fact- Bobby had a contract
Fact- you have not produced any possible reason for Bobby to take less than the contracted payout.

These are facts. You may call them “hypotheticals” all you want. But they are not hypotheticals. They are facts. Period.
Unfortunately, the argument turns on a hypothetical scenario- your assertion that TJ, if he had still been AD, would have gotten us out from under the Bobby payout. I say he wouldn’t because he couldn’t. Your counter is pure fantasy - that through Jedi mind tricks, or his magical “relationship” with Bobby, or some other slight of hand, Jurich would have made the whole thing go away.

I don’t know what you refer to about narrowing or moving goalposts. Just more boiler plate from your limited arsenal of arguments, I suppose.
Facts
Jurich managed hundreds of millions over two decades.
Jurich never paid $14 million without offsets to get out of ANY situation.
"Vince" is spending that and millions more from bank accounts.

Opinion (goalposts)
Any effort to DISCONNECT those dots disconnects them for "Vince"...
 
Facts
Jurich managed hundreds of millions over two decades.
Jurich never paid $14 million without offsets to get out of ANY situation.
"Vince" is spending that and millions more from bank accounts.

Opinion (goalposts)
Any effort to DISCONNECT those dots disconnects them for "Vince"...
Wrong. Just wrong.

How much money Jurich managed is irrelevant to this argument. This was a specific situation that he would have faced, and that Vince NQ did face.

Again, this was a specific, unique situation. Vague generalization does not work as argument. He never violated a contract and Bobby HAD a contract. What exit strategy was there? What “offset”? You never say.

Vince NQ is spending that and millions more. True enough. So would Jurich.

Since I won this argument about 40 posts ago, I will leave you now.
 
Lacrosse had a winning record and NCAA appearances under its previous coach, then promptly had a losing record last year under the "successful businessman's" new hire. Yes, I know the off-the-field issues were not ideal, but in terms of wins and losses, she wasn't running that program "into the dirt," or better yet, FieldTurf.
JP

15 players left the lacrosse program in the final 8 months that that the previous lacrosse coach was around. About half the team. The “off-the field issues” were taking a real toll on the program, and the young women who come to play at the University of Louisville deserve to be treated much better. Now, with virtually the entire team being Freshmen and Sophomores, the future looks promising without any off-the-field issues.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BPGhost
15 players left the lacrosse program in the final 8 months that that the previous lacrosse coach was around. About half the team. The “off-the field issues” were taking a real toll on the program, and the young women who come to play at the University of Louisville deserve to be treated much better. Now, with virtually the entire team being Freshmen and Sophomores, the future looks promising without any off-the-field issues.

We'll see how it goes, but it wasn't a promising start to the season yesterday. Granted, Northwestern is a top-10 team, but it's one we were competitive with not too long ago.

JP
 
My guess is the new lacrosse hire will demonstrate again how much "Vince" knows about hiring a lacrosse coach. That or simply dumb luck...
 
Would you like me to post--again--ULAA finances pre- and post- "Vince"? (No you wouldn't...)
The argument was about Bobby’s payout. They both would have done it, because there was no way out. It has nothing to do with overall finances. Now who’s moving the goalposts?
 
The argument was about Bobby’s payout. They both would have done it, because there was no way out...
"Would" is a hypothetical.

But you're also right, it's not just about spending. The reason the financials under Jurich were worlds better was because JURICH MADE MONEY. For any major expenditure, he raised money to cover it. "Vince" can't raise anything.
...It has nothing to do with overall finances. Now who’s moving the goalposts?
Hopefully, I explained how it does. Nothing about different goalposts--the only GPs that matter relate to money...
 
Facts
Jurich managed hundreds of millions over two decades.
Jurich never paid $14 million without offsets to get out of ANY situation.
"Vince" is spending that and millions more from bank accounts.

Opinion (goalposts)
Any effort to DISCONNECT those dots disconnects them for "Vince"...

10 pages of posts and you still haven’t produced examples of TJ using his superior relational skills to negotiate down a coaches’ buyout. How many more pages of posts until you produce that info?
 
10 pages of posts and you still haven’t produced examples of TJ using his superior relational skills to negotiate down a coaches’ buyout. How many more pages of posts until you produce that info?
I covered this with the other apologist. Is it your turn now?...
 
I covered this with the other apologist. Is it your turn now?...

All I’ve seen are the slight of hand tricks you are employing to deflect from your original assertion. This is a simple request. Provide examples of TJ using his superior relational skills to negotiate down a buyout.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BPGhost and Art79
I covered this with the other apologist. Is it your turn now?...
If you are referring to me, I am certainly not an apologist, as I have made clear several times in this thread and others that I do not think Vince NQ was qualified for the job he was hired for and will at some point be replaced by a qualified person picked by Dr Bendapudi.
No, you did not cover this. Not once.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BPGhost
All I’ve seen are the slight of hand tricks you are employing to deflect from your original assertion. This is a simple request. Provide examples of TJ using his superior relational skills to negotiate down a buyout.
On that issue, provide specific examples of "Vince" doing anything related to athletics administration in his prior life. Your approach cuts both ways.

U of L athletics under Jurich never took a step back financially. "Vince" allegedly had transferable skills (although we're still waiting for the results now). If you need precise examples to convince you, so do I...
 
If you are referring to me, I am certainly not an apologist, as I have made clear several times in this thread and others that I do not think Vince NQ was qualified for the job he was hired for and will at some point be replaced by a qualified person picked by Dr Bendapudi. No, you did not cover this. Not once.
I beg to differ. And it appears I'm going to repeat the task with a second apologist...
 
On that issue, provide specific examples of "Vince" doing anything related to athletics administration in his prior life. Your approach cuts both ways.

U of L athletics under Jurich never took a step back financially. "Vince" allegedly had transferable skills (although we're still waiting for the results now). If you need precise examples to convince you, so do I...
Still avoiding the question, I see...
 
On that issue, provide specific examples of "Vince" doing anything related to athletics administration in his prior life. Your approach cuts both ways.

U of L athletics under Jurich never took a step back financially. "Vince" allegedly had transferable skills (although we're still waiting for the results now). If you need precise examples to convince you, so do I...

Stick to your point and support it. Your deflections in this thread are not becoming of you. You made the assertion that TJ would have used superior relational skills to negotiate down the buyout. I’m just waiting for you to provide past examples since you seem so confident in your position. If you’d like to start a separate thread for your non-sequitor then feel free.
 
...You made the assertion that TJ would have used superior relational skills to negotiate down the buyout. I’m just waiting for you to provide past examples...
I don't need a hypothetical, I was simply asked. The FACT is that Jurich never bit into a $14 million apple in two decades without the money to buy it. There are no examples where he hadn't raised the money or couldn't.

Your clowns took him out of that job and replaced him with an AD imposter, evidently without transferable skills. He's at least without the specific experience that you're arguing that Jurich is/was without. That's talking outta both sides of your mouth.

And since it all distills down to money, let me know if you need to see those numbers as well, pre- and post-"Vince"....
 
I believe Tom Jurich was the best AD not only here at UofL but in all of college sports. And he was wrongly fired and his bank account is $8 million bucks fatter because of it. However to assert that he could have gotten away with “reducing” the $14 million payout to CBP is pure folly. WTH he wrote and presented that contract to Bobby Petrino and that’s when the mistake took place. I believe it happened because he was overly focused on the potential of Bobby leaving for another job and THAT buyout someone else would have to pay UofL. What Tom didn’t realize is that nobody else wanted CBP at any cost. I think Tom got slickerred into the $14 million buyout by an agent that saw an opportunity to get Bobby richer (and himself) because Tom was distracted. Also the evidence points to this. AD Tyra is doing a good job.

GO CARDS - BEAT EVERYBODY!!! God Bless America!!!
 
  • Like
Reactions: teamcanada
I don't need a hypothetical, I was simply asked. The FACT is that Jurich never bit into a $14 million apple in two decades without the money to buy it. There are no examples where he hadn't raised the money or couldn't.

Your clowns took him out of that job and replaced him with an AD imposter, evidently without transferable skills. He's at least without the specific experience that you're arguing that Jurich is/was without. That's talking outta both sides of your mouth.

And since it all distills down to money, let me know if you need to see those numbers as well, pre- and post-"Vince"....
Still not a single shred of evidence that TJ could have gotten Bobby to leave for less. You never address the contract. You don’t give a single example of Jurich ever violating a contract. You don’t give a single example of Jurich ever renegotiating a buyout down. If it is a FACT that Jurich never bit into a 14 mill apple without the money to buy it, then where was he to get this money? We both know where. The same place Vince NQ got it.
 
Last edited:
I don't need a hypothetical, I was simply asked. The FACT is that Jurich never bit into a $14 million apple in two decades without the money to buy it. There are no examples where he hadn't raised the money or couldn't.

Your clowns took him out of that job and replaced him with an AD imposter, evidently without transferable skills. He's at least without the specific experience that you're arguing that Jurich is/was without. That's talking outta both sides of your mouth.

And since it all distills down to money, let me know if you need to see those numbers as well, pre- and post-"Vince"....

Deflections and pivots. For his next play, “Zipp” will try a behind the back pass.
 
Argument from Ignorance

ad ignorantiam

(also known as: appeal to ignorance)

Description: The assumption of a conclusion or fact based primarily on lack of evidence to the contrary. Usually best described by, “absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.”


LINK

And in case anyone needs other references...

LINK

LINK

LINK
 
Argument from Ignorance

ad ignorantiam

(also known as: appeal to ignorance)

Description: The assumption of a conclusion or fact based primarily on lack of evidence to the contrary. Usually best described by, “absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.”


LINK

And in case anyone needs other references...

LINK

LINK

LINK
So let me get this straight. The “numbers” guy who goes on and on about facts, who posts graphs and dancing goal posts, THAT guy is telling us he doesn’t NEED facts to support his positions. You are describing your argument perfectly. Since Jurich didn’t pay out 14 million before, he wouldn’t have again. A new low.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BPGhost
So let me get this straight. The “numbers” guy who goes on and on about facts, who posts graphs and dancing goal posts, THAT guy is telling us he doesn’t NEED facts to support his positions. You are describing your argument perfectly. Since Jurich didn’t pay out 14 million before, he wouldn’t have again. A new low.
Nothing new about it. One thing that can be said for “zipp” - he’s consistent.
 
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT