UNC

[TarHeelNation11]

I'm not questioning whether the bogus classes occurred or whether it was arranged for athletes to take them. My only question was the alleged reading and writing level of some of the students involved in the curriculum. You hear about such cases, but it's hard for the average person (me anyways) to imagine those cases where a barely literate person graduates from high school, much less stays eligible in college. I've never personally been around one of those cases. Too drunk or too lazy to get up and go to class, yes. But not truly too ignorant to read or write, at least on a high school level. I believe it exists, just never been around it.

The "can't read or write" thing comes from a former UNC employee -- and athletics-hater crusader -- named Mary Willingham who was one of the key sources for the guy who's covered this story for the past six years (Dan Kane at the Raleigh News & Observer).

One little problem.........Willingham, after it came out that she was Kane's source, was proved to have not only plagiarized her master's thesis, but also proved to have incorrectly conducted her "research" analysis to quantify the aptitude levels of UNC athletes. I.E. she doesn't know how to administer and grade an aptitude test (which is shocking, since she's like....you know....supposed to TEACH), and straight made stuff up to "prove" that some UNC athletes couldn't read or write. The lazy media ran with it because it was an eyeball-catching headline. Again, let me be clear: the "third grade level reading and writing" thing was and is a complete falsity.

That's my one foray into this thread. I don't care if y'all believe me or not, but them's the facts. Oh, and to whoever above said he sees Louisville as being akin to NC State........criminy, y'all don't want that. I love Louisville and its programs and pulled like hell for y'all to get the ACC invite. You don't want to be like NC State or their fans. They're as psycho as Kentucky, they just don't win as much.

Go Heels and Go Cards. Peace.

 

[nccardfan]

Wish I had a AFAM program during my days at UK to bring up my GPA. I was on academic probation my first 2 semesters...and this was after legitimately being in the National Honor Society in high school. Let's just say it's hard to keep up with class, when you don't attend many of them...and that wasn't an "arrangement", it was because of far too many hangover days.

Haha. I nearly flunked out my first semester at WKU. Started out with 21 hours, thought I was going to be a chemistry major.. Ended up with 13 hours and a 2.2 gpa that semester. Got exposed to something called frat parties...

 

[Steelers2012]

Haha. I nearly flunked out my first semester at WKU. Started out with 21 hours, thought I was going to be a chemistry major.. Ended up with 13 hours and a 2.2 gpa that semester. Got exposed to something called frat parties...

TBH, I graduated with a lower GPA than that. Which was pretty impressive actually, considering the low number of classes I attended and the high amount of weed I smoked, beer I drank, and poker I played. Truthfully, I was pleased to get my 4 year degree in 5-1/2 years.

 

[nccardfan]

I'm not going to incriminate myself further but we used to play 3 handed rummy and the two losers did shots of whiskey. For several years after, just the smell of bourbon would gagged me. I don't mind it as much now

 

[zipp]

As a Kentucky fan who holds far more hate for the schools in North Carolina than I do for any school inside our state's borders, I would be livid if I were a Louisville supporter. Your president punished you for something I would consider much less than what North Carolina just skated for...

Yeah, well the more enlightened U of L fans don't walk around with an LPT mindset. We don't hate everyone else who's any good in basketball, and we don't look for conspiracy theories why we're always the school that gets punished.

In this case, it's very possible that it's OUR PREZ who made the mistake. And UNC has no responsibility for that. I won't get one minute of satisfaction seeing UNC punished because our guy was stupid. That's LPT territory right there.

"Elite program", my a$$...

 

[valley St. Card]

Hey Steelers. Before I comment on this whole fiasco. Didn't Pitino take a Lie Detector a few months back. It might have been idle chatter at the watering hole. But..........

 

[Steelers2012]

Hey Steelers. Before I comment on this whole fiasco. Didn't Pitino take a Lie Detector a few months back. It might have been idle chatter at the watering hole. But..........

The only mention of a lie detector test I remember is Dick Vitale claiming that Pitino had taken and passed one.

Dick VitaleVerified account
@DickieV
5 Feb., 2016
For all those screaming that Rick Pitino knew about the sex parties-a FACT -a source told me that Pitino took a LIE DETECTOR test & passed!

 

[Cue Card]

The only mention of a lie detector test I remember is Dick Vitale claiming that Pitino had taken and passed one.

Dick VitaleVerified account
@DickieV
5 Feb., 2016
For all those screaming that Rick Pitino knew about the sex parties-a FACT -a source told me that Pitino took a LIE DETECTOR test & passed!

Wonder if John Calipari ever took a lie detector test regarding UMass and Memphis State? Probably not.

 

[OmegaCard]

So we've been seeing this slow release in the media of how UNC is about to get off. Few articles every so often about the situation. How UNC is technically right? Zipp all fired up on their behalf.

 

[OmegaCard]

It's not fair, but that's just how it is...

 

[zipp]

"Fair" is in one person's eyes, and "fair" may be fantasy-land.

It's why you don't assume that playing by the rules or by what you THINK is right may have no relevance.

If you don't learn by example, you can still learn by experience. It just costs you more--like a chance at a national championship...

 

[OmegaCard]

"Fair" is in one person's eyes, and "fair" may be fantasy-land.

It's why you don't assume that playing by the rules or by what you THINK is right may have no relevance.

If you don't learn by example, you can still learn by experience. It just costs you more--like a chance at a national championship...

My experience says never play against a stacked deck.

 

[*Bleedingblue*]

Wow...you get ALL of that angst out of the post below? That's a LOT of assumption read into a pretty benign retort, that you apparently perceived as a full scale attack. It was a silly post for a UK fan to make on your rival's board (or any non-UK board for that matter) given your coaches history with leaving programs before NCAA issues under his watch come to light. Nobody called him a name; nobody cursed him. ONE poster simply pointed out the hypocrisy in his post; nothing more, nothing less.

Yet somehow John Calipari had no clue "what was taking place" at UMass or at Memphis State. Am I right????

Makes one wonder if he's still clueless in Lexington. What say you?

Your wrong Steelers, he was right. I was actually sticking up for UL and any other program right now that is being investigated by the NCAA. I have no clue why someone comes to your all's board and says he thinks nothing should come from any investigation on any other program and I am attacked for saying that? That doesn't make any sense especially from you guys. Or your just ready to pounce because you see the "blue" in my handle?
I guess you guys want some type of punishment?

Around 10 years ago Georgia got hammered for setting up a basketball class for an easy A. UNC does the same thing and they get off free?
They have a player who is driving around in rent a cars paid for by somebody else and he isn't the only player doing so.
If I was you guys I would have as many people on my side as I could.

 

[OmegaCard]

Your wrong Steelers, he was right. I was actually sticking up for UL and any other program right now that is being investigated by the NCAA. I have no clue why someone comes to your all's board and says he thinks nothing should come from any investigation on any other program and I am attacked for saying that? That doesn't make any sense especially from you guys. Or your just ready to pounce because you see the "blue" in my handle?
I guess you guys want some type of punishment?

Around 10 years ago Georgia got hammered for setting up a basketball class for an easy A. UNC does the same thing and they get off free?
They have a player who is driving around in rent a cars paid for by somebody else and he isn't the only player doing so.
If I was you guys I would have as many people on my side as I could.

Yeah, the collective" we deserve to get punished and they don't"...pretty disturbing. Great catch on Georgia. All of the sports media seemed to ignore the similarities.

 

[Steelers2012]

Your wrong Steelers, he was right. I was actually sticking up for UL and any other program right now that is being investigated by the NCAA. I have no clue why someone comes to your all's board and says he thinks nothing should come from any investigation on any other program and I am attacked for saying that? That doesn't make any sense especially from you guys. Or your just ready to pounce because you see the "blue" in my handle?
I guess you guys want some type of punishment?

Around 10 years ago Georgia got hammered for setting up a basketball class for an easy A. UNC does the same thing and they get off free?
They have a player who is driving around in rent a cars paid for by somebody else and he isn't the only player doing so.
If I was you guys I would have as many people on my side as I could.

Once again, the ONLY part of your words that got pounced on was "Roy Williams left KU on probation when he left for UNC, you know good and well he knew what was taking place". The irony of those words coming from a John Calipari fan, was simply too much for one poster to pass on. If that phrase wasn't used by a UK poster, I don't think anyone would have paid much attention. And again, that phrase elicited a pretty simple retort; nothing IMO That rises even close to the level of "being attacked". Something pretty silly was said, given the source, and something was said in return. You're making far too much of one retort.

 

[zipp]

I'm never good with any fan of any program giving any other program ish about cheating, rules, or anything else off the court. In large part, because you don't know what's right or wrong about your own program.

Unless it's someone dishing it to LPT and probably the SEC. That's fair game anytime and anyplace.

"Elite program", my a$$...

 

[Jkwo]

Yet somehow John Calipari had no clue "what was taking place" at UMass or at Memphis State. Am I right????

Makes one wonder if he's still clueless in Lexington. What say you?

If you explain why Cal would hook Camby up with an agent as a junior in college (meaning there is zero benefit for Cal - he doesn't get a kid out of it - yet it would be an unfathomably massive risk) then you'll be the first. Regardless of how ethical you think a person is, it's just a stupid thing to do.

Much like UK fans who believe that Rick orchestrated the Katina parties. Rival fans can say what they want about the other coach and morals, but the Camby thing and the Powell thing would only be orchestrated by a coach if that coach was a full blown idiot, and only a fool believes that Rick and Cal are stupid.


As for the Rose thing, I understand that a rival fan would want to assume that Cal orchestrated it (at least there's a benefit for him, unlike the Camby case).
But if the National Collegiate Athletics Association believes it's in the business of monitoring fake tests taken as a high schooler, then why the hell are they suddenly so powerless over players faking college tests? They're the ones who wrote the loopholes UNC is pursuing into their own 5 trillion page rulebook.

Even the most ardent Cal hater should be able to understand that the NCAA is kicking justice square in the nuts by letting 2 decades of fake college courses for dozens of players go untouched at UNC while Memphis got a title game season vacated over one SAT score.

 

[zipp]

UNC absolutely rocks. I'm so damn glad that most of this appears to be over for their revenue programs.

And I think this will play out well for U of L although I don't subscribe to having self imposed. But what's done is done. In the process, we has taken a big step on behalf of the NCAA. With the UNC saga as a backdrop, I can easily see U of L being COMMENDED by the NCAA for having conducted a quick and thorough investigation and taking appropriate action.

Hate it on both counts for the slapd!cks, the vast majority of whom wanted much more.

"Elite program", my a$$...

 

[L1c4tillidie]

UNC absolutely rocks. I'm so damn glad that most of this appears to be over for their revenue programs.

And I think this will play out well for U of L although I don't subscribe to having self imposed. But what's done is done. In the process, we has taken a big step on behalf of the NCAA. With the UNC saga as a backdrop, I can easily see U of L being COMMENDED by the NCAA for having conducted a quick and thorough investigation and taking appropriate action.

Hate it on both counts for the slapd!cks, the vast majority of whom wanted much more.

"Elite program", my a$$...

Agreed. It looks like the admin may have gone too far with the ban but otherwise we are in a good position. At the end of the day there just wasn't much there.

 

[NENCHeel]

"Around 10 years ago Georgia got hammered for setting up a basketball class for an easy A. UNC does the same thing and they get off free?"

This claim proves one of two things...you are either completely ignorant of the two situations or a painfully incompetent liar.

The UGa course was designed and taught by a member of the UGa Basketball Coaching Staff with University approval.. There is nothing comparable to what happened at UNC. There is not a single report of any of the eight separate investigations that found a single instance of a Staff member teaching or even suggesting course content.

As for the rest of your crap about "free cars" let us know when you find a dropped FedEx package ....you should be a recognized expert in that area.

 

[ClockCalamity]

Wonder if John Calipari ever took a lie detector test regarding UMass and Memphis State? Probably not.

Probably because polygraphs are not considered reliable and, in most jurisdictions, not even permissible as evidence in court. Though called lie detectors, the reality is that a polygraph machine does not have any capacity for detecting the truth or falsity of a statement. Rather, it measures a person's biological processes to determine if they are experiencing a physiological event, such as an increase in blood pressure or heart rate. These conditions are considered to be indicators that someone may be lying, as the increased stress of telling a falsehood creates a subtle, but measurable change in one's vital readings.

 

[Cue Card]

Probably because polygraphs are not considered reliable and, in most jurisdictions, not even permissible as evidence in court. Though called lie detectors, the reality is that a polygraph machine does not have any capacity for detecting the truth or falsity of a statement. Rather, it measures a person's biological processes to determine if they are experiencing a physiological event, such as an increase in blood pressure or heart rate. These conditions are considered to be indicators that someone may be lying, as the increased stress of telling a falsehood creates a subtle, but measurable change in one's vital readings.

Whatever helps you sleep at night is fine by me. All I know is Pitino volunteered and passed the polygraph test. People who work for our Government in some areas have to routinely take and pass a polygraph test in order to maintain their security clearances. If this test was so unreliable then one would think that the Government would stop making it a requirement to maintain high level security clearances. Calipari (to my knowledge) has never volunteered to take a polygraph test with the intent to provide at least SOME measure of proof that he actually didn't know what was going on at Umass AND Memphis. I really wonder why not? We keep hearing how innocent he is. This is at least one way he could try to provide proof, permissible or not.

 

[OmegaCard]

Yeah, UNC didn't rigg the basketball program, they rigged all the degrees. Brilliant play. .

 

[OneEarWonder]

Probably because polygraphs are not considered reliable and, in most jurisdictions, not even permissible as evidence in court. Though called lie detectors, the reality is that a polygraph machine does not have any capacity for detecting the truth or falsity of a statement. Rather, it measures a person's biological processes to determine if they are experiencing a physiological event, such as an increase in blood pressure or heart rate. These conditions are considered to be indicators that someone may be lying, as the increased stress of telling a falsehood creates a subtle, but measurable change in one's vital readings.

Whatever helps you sleep at night is fine by me. All I know is Pitino volunteered and passed the polygraph test. People who work for our Government in some areas have to routinely take and pass a polygraph test in order to maintain their security clearances. If this test was so unreliable then one would think that the Government would stop making it a requirement to maintain high level security clearances. Calipari (to my knowledge) has never volunteered to take a polygraph test with the intent to provide at least SOME measure of proof that he actually didn't know what was going on at Umass AND Memphis. I really wonder why not? We keep hearing how innocent he is. This is at least one way he could try to provide proof, permissible or not.

Cue, Clock is right when it comes to polygraph. They are detect physiological changes, not truth or falsehoods. There are various ways to "Beat" one, though some are more successful than other. They are not used in courts, but will sometimes be used by individuals to assert their innocence or truthfulness and may be required in civil matters. As far as security clearance goes, there are various levels - some include a ploy, some do not. Even when required, there are multiple types of polygraph tests. When used, it is but one method, not the only method, in a comprehensive screening process.

As far a CRP taking a test... we don't know if he did or not. We have 1 person tweeting that another person told them... it has never been confirmed (or denied), so we don't know, but, so what... IT DOES NOT MATTER. The university chose their punishment. CRP, by rule, is responsible for what happens. So, he is innocent until proven otherwise but still responsible.

As far as Cal, why even bother? He was cleared by NCAA, his (former) programs were punished. None of that has any bearing here.

 

[earsky]

So, he is innocent until proven otherwise but still responsible.

As far as Cal, why even bother? He was cleared by NCAA, his (former) programs were punished. None of that has any bearing here.

So,is Cal responsible as well?

 

[Cue Card]

Cue, Clock is right when it comes to polygraph

Never said he/she was wrong. I only suggested that it isn't a worthless test. No I can't confirm Pitino took the test, and you can't confirm he didn't. We have a talking head making the claim that he has a source who said he took the polygraph test and passed it. I in kind was just wondering if Calipari had ever done anything remotely close to that. Has he? I can't confirm he hasn't. Nobody can confirm he has. Not even a talking head with a source because there is no talking head and no source. Not for Calipari.

Maybe that means Pitino is better liked than Calipari by his peers or maybe the talking head was telling the truth? IDK.

 

[NENCHeel]

Yeah, UNC didn't rigg the basketball program, they rigged all the degrees. Brilliant play. .

Yeah..it was tricky with Law, Medicine, Dental but what the heck are Professional Licenses anyway?

 

[zipp]

It's kinda humorous when LPT fans--even our own fans--try talking academic smack with UNC fans. Stop it, guys. You're embarrassing yourselves...

 

[ULarder]

It's kinda humorous when LPT fans--even our own fans--try talking academic smack with UNC fans. Stop it, guys. You're embarrassing yourselves...

A UL basketball fan with an inferiority complex toward UNC basketball is pretty humorous too, wouldn’t you agree? Although, really it’s more embarrassing than humorous. UL basketball was already one of the “big boys” in college basketball long before joining the ACC, and nothing has changed because of its ACC membership (except UL helped make the ACC a better sports conference). I have no need for, or interest in, pandering to UNC fans for acceptance.

 

[zipp]

A UL basketball fan with an inferiority complex toward UNC basketball is pretty humorous too, wouldn’t you agree? Although, really it’s more embarrassing than humorous. UL basketball was already one of the “big boys” in college basketball long before joining the ACC, and nothing has changed because of its ACC membership (except UL helped make the ACC a better sports conference). I have no need for, or interest in, pandering to UNC fans for acceptance.

Who's doing that in this thread? Which U of L fans??

 

[Senore2006]

Exactly Cue Card! That's the precedent being set here.

We may have jumped the gun with last year's self-imposed sanctions. If we have any non-athletes attending McGee parties, it's not an improper benefit and there very likely could have been others in attendance. Like you and me for instance

Y'all remember when Ol Roy came stumblebumming in with that Ancient History PhD chick and her students? They made Katrina's bunnies look like mannequins.

If we share the sh-t

You must acquit

 

[zipp]

...If we share the sh-t

You must acquit

 

[Senore2006]

Bwahahahaha!!

 

[kyjeff1]

"Around 10 years ago Georgia got hammered for setting up a basketball class for an easy A. UNC does the same thing and they get off free?"

This claim proves one of two things...you are either completely ignorant of the two situations or a painfully incompetent liar.

The UGa course was designed and taught by a member of the UGa Basketball Coaching Staff with University approval.. There is nothing comparable to what happened at UNC. There is not a single report of any of the eight separate investigations that found a single instance of a Staff member teaching or even suggesting course content.

As for the rest of your crap about "free cars" let us know when you find a dropped FedEx package ....you should be a recognized expert in that area.

So you're saying grades were never changed for the sole purpose of keeping a UNC basketball player eligible?

 

[zipp]

LPT fans, why not go and try to hammer UNC in your OWN space and take your garbage away from here? U of L fans will take UNC and whatever warts it has (not many) over slapd!cks any day and for any reason. You're just stinking up our home with your presence.

Now run along if that's the only reason you're here.

"Elite program", my a$$...

 

[NENCHeel]

So you're saying grades were never changed for the sole purpose of keeping a UNC basketball player eligible?

You can read it here if you want...from the Wainstein Report the NCAA verified as accurate in their investigation. This report has appeared all over Hades and back including the News and Observe in Raleigh which wrote this:

"It was well-known on campus that Crowder was a lax grader and gave high grades without regard for content, Wainstein said, emphasizing that she never gave a grade unless a student submitted a paper and did not change grades that were already given."

This my last post on this tread. Zipp and I will take on Quantum Mechanics and the Honda Drivers that love them next week.

 

[kyjeff1]

You can read it here if you want...from the Wainstein Report the NCAA verified as accurate in their investigation. This report has appeared all over Hades and back including the News and Observe in Raleigh which wrote this:

"It was well-known on campus that Crowder was a lax grader and gave high grades without regard for content, Wainstein said, emphasizing that she never gave a grade unless a student submitted a paper and did not change grades that were already given."

This my last post on this tread. Zipp and I will take on Quantum Mechanics and the Honda Drivers that love them next week.

I phrased my question incorrectly.
There are email conversations that talk about giving a kid a B because that's what he needed to pass and stay eligible.
Sorry, you can try to defend this for as long as you like but those classes were designed to keep players eligible and it happened for an extremely long period of time. At the very least "The Carolina Way" has taken a huge hit.

 

[zipp]

...At the very least "The Carolina Way" has taken a huge hit.

And rest assured we know that LPT fans will never forget.

"Elite program", my a$$...

 

[NENCHeel]

Yeah well they'll never get past some aspects of higher education. Like being able to realize the difference between a MBB player and a WBB player.

 

[uncfan in ky]

I phrased my question incorrectly.
There are email conversations that talk about giving a kid a B because that's what he needed to pass and stay eligible.
Sorry, you can try to defend this for as long as you like but those classes were designed to keep players eligible and it happened for an extremely long period of time. At the very least "The Carolina Way" has taken a huge hit.

When you say "a kid" in which sport are you referring to? I know some WBB players had grades changed but no proof of MBB.
Care to show the email?