A slappy scorekeeper. Proving again that I'm on the right side of this debate.
"Elite program", my a$$...
The rest of the country is sending a message...
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"Elite program", my a$$...
Everyone here should know by now that zipp is always right, even when he's wrong. Just ask him. He'll tell you.
It isn't about being right or wrong on this issue. If what Zipp alludes makes you think, his job is done anyway. Does anyone actually believe what he said has zero merit?
Nope. He has a point and he always makes me think which is good since I'm getting older and need the mental exercise.
My only point regarding the UofL-UofK basketball game is despite the obvious less and less interest in the game itself by the nation, I still enjoy the game, and I would also like to hear him at least admit that the game of college basketball itself is in decline regarding its popularity so while he has a point, it goes much deeper than just UofL's overall athletic department successes versus the one trick pony up I64.
Cue, I recognize the backdrop of a sport that's also in decline. But I don't understand how that significantly changes the debate. A decline in TV ratings for a game would have to be gauged against overall ratings.
The latest evidence, however, is the game being moved to a weeknite. We don't know yet that it won't be on ESPN2 or ESPNU. The popularity of college basketball doesn't really bear on that news unless more CBB is being similarly affected.
Interest in the game has apparently waned. Whatever it is that's causing a decline in interest is not that important. Whether it's national or something related to these two teams, it doesn't appear we have any power to change it. We simply have to acknowledge it...
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Anything more useless than an LPT fan's critique of 'zipp'? Nothing I know of.
"Elite program", my a$$...
Zipp - your unwillingness to accept defeat is quite admirable. Anyways, here is the requested link:
http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/20...-espns-36th-season-is-its-second-most-viewed/
The UL vs UK rivalry is good for the fans that count; those in and around the Commonwealth. The argument about the 350+ million people in the USA do not pay much attention to any college basketball game until March Madness, and the in-state rivalries are for those fans in their respective states.
Football is a little different for an Auburn/Alabama, or a Michigan/MSU rival game, but most in-state rival games like Iowa vs ISU, Purdue vs IU, Clemson vs SC, UGA vs GT and so many of the others are entertaining and popular for the fans of primarily those schools.
Anyone outside of ND thinking they have a National following is delusional.
Football is a little different for an Auburn/Alabama, or a Michigan/MSU rival game, but most in-state rival games like Iowa vs ISU, Purdue vs IU, Clemson vs SC, UGA vs GT and so many of the others are entertaining and popular for the fans of primarily those schools.
Anyone outside of ND thinking they have a National following is delusional.
There is no "defeat" at issue, only more analysis...
The central issue is how much of that volume is inside or outside of the Commonwealth. Based on the largest markets for the entire season--Louisville 5.9 (1st), Greensboro 3.0 (2nd), Raleigh-Durham 2.7 (3rd), and Charlotte 1.8 (9th)--it looks like most of the national interest in the LPT game is in fact local. Louisville has twice the following of college basketball as the next-highest market. But you don't need the game on ESPN to broadcast it to Kentuckians.
It also looks like the same could be true of North Carolina. Their individual market numbers are relatively high for the season but a lot lower than Louisville's. But there are twice as many people in the Tar Heel state, and the national numbers for their big rivalry game aren't much higher than Louisville's. Can Tobacco Road expect ESPN to justify hyping those two games nationally?
Again, it's a fact that the game is moving to a December weeknite, and we don't know yet how much promotion it will receive or whether it's even on ESPN (and not "2" or "U"). While I'm interested in perpetuating it, I didn't create the narrative around this news although I appreciate those who wanna credit me with it...
To me it is a simple decline of interest in the game of college basketball.
My personal opinion is the main culprit for the decline is the lack of integrity within the game which is displayed every time a soon to be professional basketball player is allowed to disguise himself as a "student-athlete" for 1 semester of college. It's a slap in the face to higher learning and everyone knows it. The only people willing to look the other way are the people who benefit from it. As long as there is a NBA rule in place and the NCAA accepts it without countering with a plan to restore academic integrity, then the decline in interest will continue IMO.
Sure people will tune in for the NCAA tourney mainly because that's about the only time they get to see actual student-athletes playing for more than just an audition for the NBA. True college basketball fans just don't care much about professional basketball.
My personal opinion is the main culprit for the decline is the lack of integrity within the game which is displayed every time a soon to be professional basketball player is allowed to disguise himself as a "student-athlete" for 1 semester of college. It's a slap in the face to higher learning and everyone knows it. The only people willing to look the other way are the people who benefit from it. As long as there is a NBA rule in place and the NCAA accepts it without countering with a plan to restore academic integrity, then the decline in interest will continue IMO.
Sure people will tune in for the NCAA tourney mainly because that's about the only time they get to see actual student-athletes playing for more than just an audition for the NBA. True college basketball fans just don't care much about professional basketball.
I think it's simply that there are more choices than ever. People have to decide how to split up their leisure time and there are way more options now than there have ever been. I have a finite number of hours in a week in which to watch TV. I choose to watch a lot of sports because I love them, but there is so much good content on TV now, and such easy access to all that content, that sports has more competition than it has ever had. If you go back just 15 years, you had a handful of networks making good TV series. Now there are tons. HBO, AMC, TNT, TBS, Showtime, etc etc. And with streaming available for all of these, it just makes it too easy to look at sports and say meh. Especially regular season college basketball. It's meaningless.
I agree with some of that premise. It's worth noting.
I guess older farts (like me) who ache for the good ole days to return when the game was all about the name of the front of the jersey instead of the name of the back are a dying breed. We'll all soon be dead and buried and the game will continue to spiral in the direction it's currently going and it'll become the normal for this and the next generation, who in turn will find something wrong with the next shift in the game and end up complaining about it like us older farts complain today. It's just the vicious cycle of life I guess.
The more things change, the more they really do stay the same.
Your points are also very valid. College basketball can be pretty ugly to watch nowadays. Ironically, often watching teams who don't necessarily have the best players offers the best chance to see excellent team basketball. There is a cohesion with teams with upperclassmen who have played together and don't have one eye on the NBA that you just don't see with a lot of major conference teams.
Not necessary when just cancelling one game will get that job done.
You are certified crazy. I refuse to argue with you Zipp. You win.Not necessary when just cancelling one game will get that job done.
Not necessary when just cancelling one game will get that job done.
I really think you are losing it. Why in the world would any TV network cancel something that is in the top 3 of its genre? Data has been provided that proves that the game has statistical strength, including a multitude of viewers outside of the Louisville and Lexington DMAs. From a TV perspective, there are about 1000 different games that merit being removed before the UofL vs UK game.
Probably 2 million of the three who watch the game are in the state of KY. That's of limited value to a national TV network and why ESPN is relegating the product once again. To reiterate, I didn't create the issue or start the narrative--I just subscribe to and am continuing it.
Let ESPN find us a replacement. Start a 2/4-game series with a west coast team like Oregon, and one that's made for TV. Play a marquee opponent at a neutral site. Or schedule another home game to pay for an arena that's struggling financially.
I haven't "lost" anything except the mindset that LPT has to be on the schedule. No they don't, and we don't get much from playing them in ANY sport anymore. If I've failed at anything, perhaps it took me a little longer than it should have to realize that...
Oregon? C'mon zipp, you can do better than that. I'm largely on your side here, but that's a reach and you know it.
I don't follow west coast basketball, as weak as it is. Simply picked the one-seed from this past year's tourney. You know firsthand how risky it is going with the west coast legends (UCLA)--I'm open to suggestions.
And there's no program west of the Rockies that's gonna move the needle here like yours...
The last time Louisville and Ohio State played it garnered less than half the rating and viewership than the UofL v UK game 3 weeks later. So even if you were right in your 2/3 viewers are kentuckian that ESPN doesn't care about,you could strip all those people out and still had higher viewership than the UofL vs Ohio State game
I don't see how beating UNC has anything to do with the UK/UL series.
If that's your reasoning for cancelling a series than you might as well cancel every other game that nobody watches. That would mean you would have to cancel every single pre conference game. How many people do you think are tuning in to watch UL play Samford, Hartford, North Florida, ST Francis, Saint Louis, Grand Canyon, Eastern Michigan , Kennesaw State, Western Kentucky, Missouri - Kansas City and Utah Valley? UL played Michigan State last year, might as well cancel that one too as I'm sure it didn't catch the interest of 3 million viewers either.
Heck, how many conference games can you say brought over 3 million viewers? Looks like you have to cancel the whole season based on your views.
Wouldn't you rather watch your team play a top 25 team instead of Kennesaw State? Why does it matter what Network it's on or how many people care? It's your team.
Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't UL make a lot of money when they play UK? I thought both schools made quite the profit on those games.
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Cmon Zipp. Through all of your spins, why don't you just admit that you don't think the Cards can ever beat the Cats, you given up hope in beating them and somehow you feel "embarrassed" by the fact and you want to take your ball and go home. Even if it were true, I would never concede anything to the kitties, which is what you are doing by advocating dropping the game. And if you are advocating dropping all games against the cats, then you are acting like the little brother that you so seemingly say we're not. How's that for hypocrisy?
It's hard to argue your point. I have mad respect for zipp as a poster but in this case, it sure seems like he just wants to take his ball and go home instead of competing.
I really don't care if UofK wins the next 100 basketball games in a row, I will always pull for the Cards and I'm not ashamed or afraid to admit it.
I got an idea.. Let's drop Kennesaw State and play home and home every year with the kitties. That has to be a step up in RPI and gives us a shot at them every year at home. Cmon Zipp, what do you say?
I could get very much behind UofL scheduling their very own East versus West series among teams from UCLA, Stanford, Cal, Utah, maybe BYU or Nevada (who could use the publicity) in lieu of the UK game. Include UNLV. I'd far rather watch UK exist on their island of SEC twerps - and watch them be forced to schedule IU home and away to generate interest.
We are an outsized image for them, especially in an era where we own them so ridiculously much in football. They are way too needy for revenge and they are already religious about this sport. It becomes positively Apocalyptic in their eyes. I absolutely love the idea of leaving them at the gate of heaven, lol. It is a murderous and totally destructive potential result. It would be cruel as hell, lol.
We are an outsized image for them, especially in an era where we own them so ridiculously much in football. They are way too needy for revenge and they are already religious about this sport. It becomes positively Apocalyptic in their eyes. I absolutely love the idea of leaving them at the gate of heaven, lol. It is a murderous and totally destructive potential result. It would be cruel as hell, lol.
All of those weak-sister home games are simple revenue producers. We make better than $2 million per home game, so to the chagrin of many U of L fans, most of those December games aren't going anywhere. And our beautiful arena needs all the money it can generate.
If that's the discussion, the LPT game means one lost home game every other year. So playing LPT in basketball COSTS U of L more than a million per year. Don't think numbers of that magnitude are lost on a guy like Jurich unless he sees significant benefit.
And he sure ain't feeling it in the results of the game itself.
"Elite program", my a$$...
It's not entirely about the viewership in made-for-TV games. Not if there's a financial guarantee from the network.
Why play the game otherwise? Just schedule another Montana Tech at home and pocket another $2+ million. That's the cost each time we play LPT at their place...
All I can do is keep repeating what I have been saying...
I'm good with cancelling all competitions, all games with LPT in all sports. This isn't a basketball issue only, although the news about the basketball game has put it in this arena for the time being.
Quite simply, we get no benefit playing LPT anymore in any sport worthy of debate. If you wanna debate volleyball or swimming & diving, I'm not your guy. But certainly what I'm saying about the "major" sports--football, men's and women's basketball, and baseball--is true. Take it game by game and sport by sport, and have that debate with me if you want. I'm ready.
The days are past where we needed them on our schedule to improve our level of competition and our facilities. At this point, THEY get more from the games than we do. Again, take it game by game and sport by sport.
So, "taking my ball" is only accurate to the extent that I wanna put in on another school's field/court like Auburn in football or Vanderbilt in baseball...
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Playing Montana tech is not the answer. We have been criticized and penalized for having weak nonconference schedules in the past even when when we were playing in the strongest basketball conference at the time, the Big East. Again dropping UK does hurt us in the aspect of what college basketball thinks they represent, one of the top 2 programs (used to be UK and UCLA, now UK and Duke). Since we already play Duke, anybody else is a drop off. Oregon really?
Why do you include baseball? Because we're winning against them now? Baseball is a non revenue sport until we start charging admission to ALL the games. Why not lacrosse, soccer, tennis. Fact is we are probably only dominating them in football and we are only one Krapthorpe away from being on the other side of things.
Huh? If you got paid for this, I would assume your rate was based on number of different arguments presented.
So your original thesis was that ESPN was moving the game because no one cares about it so it shouldn't be played. When it was proven that the game does draw big TV numbers and that it is possible to draw a good number on a weeknight, you then switch to the theory that viewership doesn't matter? If you believe that, I guess you will have to admit that you just contradicted your original thesis.
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