The MYTH that UK is "closer" to U of L after last year's game

[Global Havok]

I'm ignoring nothing. If other successful coaches have those same issues, then your issue (Joker's attrition) is a crutch or an excuse. Stupes is operating with nothing less than other successful coaches have.


I'm not sure who the 3rd coach is--Auburn's??--but you never made the point because you either disregarded it or overlooked it. And if Pappaw had high attrition, why wasn't that commonly heard to help explain Joker's alleged lack of performance?


20th rated recruiting classes don't get you a national championship, or Texas would have won one this year. More to the story besides alleged attrition and recruiting class rankings. Those can be used as excuses to cover for poor coaching.


Unlike basketball, one great player in football doesn't make a huge difference. If that was the case, U of L would have challenged for a championship when Bridgewater and Parker were teaming up. There's more explaining the results you're citing than a good player or roster attrition.


Stupes hasn't been in the job long enough. The one common thing I do see is typical LPT in-game coaching.

LPT Football: Consistency sucks...

Most successful coaches don't inherit the roster mess Stoops did. But, that's obviously something you're not going to agree with. Good thing like most coaches he'll be given more than two years to prove his worth.

The three coaches are Brooks, Joker, and Stoops. And, being that two of the articles I used for my numbers on attrition were written during Joker's time at UK, I'd say it was used as a reason for Joker's lack of performance.

And, you are correct, top 20 classes don't lead to titles. This is also the case with Auburn. They had the top 20 classes, but they also had two top 10 classes in the four years leading up to their championship. As has every champion since 2002.

Bridgewater and Parker were a hell of a tandem, but even together they didn't have the impact of Newton. See his impact at the NFL level for the pathetic Panthers organization.

Finally, Stoops is going on his third year at UK. He's had significant attrition, really any attrition at all, his first season. Joker experienced that attrition on an annual basis during his three years. There seems to be some reason for that. If only I could put my finger on it...

 

[Bill Derington]

When it's a player of Cam Newton's level it does.
Bridgewater was great, but he wasn't on the level of Cam Newton.
Of course auburn had attrition, the difference is the overall level of recruit Auburn was getting compared to UK. You keep saying 20th rated class, that's one year, if that's even right. You put years of those level of classes together with red shirt juniors and seniors and then you have a championship team.....with a qb like Newton who could single handedly win a game.

I expect to see Stoops teams make the next step win he has a team with his recruits that are red shirt juniors or higher. Anything before that to me is a bonus.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

That would mean that according to the scoreboard, and nothing else, that the gap has indeed closed.

The scoreboard of the polls is not close. A snapshot in time one game view is not the way to evaluate programs. The extreme example would be to say Louisville has surpassed Notre Dame because we just beat them.

When I reference final scores of games - I'm talking about quantity of games over time, and what's been sustained. My point here is UK hasn't even had a beer yet but a lot of their fans are pi$$ drunk.

Starting to get my point yet?

 

[Bill Derington]

Ipartied, I'll agree some of the fans get a little carried away with their expectations for the season. But no one that I've seen here has predicted anything outlandish.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

Ipartied, I'll agree some of the fans get a little carried away with their expectations for the season. But no one that I've seen here has predicted anything outlandish.

Bill I don't disagree. I'm making generalizations to explain the kickback that you have received in about the last 8 pages of this thread, or whatever it is.

Everybody is undefeated in July.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

High level? FSU played sloppy the first half and dialed it in the second, scoring 5 td's. That's one team playing high level football.

Bill you've held on to your "vision" of that game firmly.

Louisville produced nearly 500 yards of total offense. Parker had over 200 yards receiving, that's a high level of production for a WR at any level. Dyer had a monster game too. The Louisville defense created turnovers.

There were big plays made all over the field by a lot of guys.

The UK/UofL game was a miserable performance on a lot of levels. The QB play was putrid by both starters and the game was a sub par product.

 

[Pervis_Griffith]

I've read and heard many times from UofL fans how close you guys were to knocking off FSU. And you were. But, that game is almost a mirror of the UK/UofL game. UofL was up by a decent amount against FSU, partiality because Winston threw three INTs resulting in 14 UofL points. Only FSU had more quality depth, UofL's top guys got gassed, and FSU came back to win by 11. Now, certainly having Winston helped in that comeback, but those games are pretty similar.

Pretty weak bro. I didn't realize that when Kyle Bolin was called into action against UK, that he was a returning Heisman trophy winner off the defending national champions. Comparing these two games and saying "its the same" is just beyond ridiculous.

 

[Mike'sMarbles]

When UofL plays UK in football, it's kind of like when Kentucky plays the worst teams in the SEC in basketball. Sure you know the other team is going to get fired up but at the end of the day UK is probably not going to play its most inspired brand of basketball and they'll still win.

 

[Global Havok]

Pretty weak bro. I didn't realize that when Kyle Bolin was called into action against UK, that he was a returning Heisman trophy winner off the defending national champions. Comparing these two games and saying "its the same" is just beyond ridiculous.

No, it's not. Every team has varying levels of talent and experience. UofL fans can point to KB being inexperienced, and UK fans can do the same for much of their roster.

 

[Bill Derington]

Bill you've held on to your "vision" of that game firmly.

Louisville produced nearly 500 yards of total offense. Parker had over 200 yards receiving, that's a high level of production for a WR at any level. Dyer had a monster game too. The Louisville defense created turnovers.

There were big plays made all over the field by a lot of guys.

The UK/UofL game was a miserable performance on a lot of levels. The QB play was putrid by both starters and the game was a sub par product.

You're right

 

[Bill Derington]

When UofL plays UK in football, it's kind of like when Kentucky plays the worst teams in the SEC in basketball. Sure you know the other team is going to get fired up but at the end of the day UK is probably not going to play its most inspired brand of basketball and they'll still win.

I'm gonna say you're just a little off on that. Catsillustrated doesn't have multiple threads on ole miss or auburn basketball teams during the off season.
It's a rivalry, it's fun for the fans and the teams want to win the game desperately.

 

[Mike'sMarbles]

I can't buy into the idea that UofL players put the same emphasis or more on the UK game as they did Florida State, Clemson, Notre Dame, and even Miami last year.

 

[Mike'sMarbles]

I think that's why UK gets an occasional win in the SEC against teams like South Carolina. It's not like SC thought they were playing Clemson.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

FSU fans say the same things about the UofL game that UofL fans say about the UK game.

Not trying to flame you at all, but you seem to think you have the pulse of FSU fan - but in reality you merely have the pulse of UK fan.


FSU was playing a ranked opponent. The game was played on a day and a time slot all to itself, the entire country was watching. They had an open date prior to the game they had nearly two weeks to prepare. They were the defending champs, and had the H Trophy winner under center. They were undefeated. They had a lot on the line they ran into a buzz saw but made the plays they needed to make. They were in the midst of defending their title, we were the last "obstacles" in their way of a perfect season.

Many in the media looked @ the game as a potential upset. They were on watch.

UofL fans weren't thrilled after the UK game, they were angrily relieved they didn't lose to a team that is a perennial bottom feeder. Many of the fans were unhappy because the team played very poorly.

If we had been playing a quality opponent, the vibe would have been much different. But, we weren't.

The vibe surrounding these two games had little to no similarities. One had hype, the other didn't.

Fans of top teams are pumped to beat ranked teams, especially on the road... are you kidding me guy? They live for that stuff.

Louisville fans were meh after the UK/UofL game, FSU fans were pumped after the FSU/UofL game.

 

[Bill Derington]

I'd say they felt relieved, just like Louisville did.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

I'd say they felt relieved, just like Louisville did.

Maybe, I won't dismiss that. I don't take wins for granted, but I personally didn't feel all that relieved last year. I was relieved the year before when we won in Commonwealth.

Last year, I was disappointed to see Reggie struggle so bad and see our offense get stoned in the first half by a below average defense.

There's jubilant, ecstatic relief, and there's annoyed relief.

 

[zipp]

Most successful coaches don't inherit the roster mess Stoops did...

Your story's changing... You acknowledged that Joker inherited Pappaw's attrition problem. Granted, neither Joker nor Stupes have been "successful".

...The three coaches are Brooks, Joker, and Stoops. And, being that two of the articles I used for my numbers on attrition were written during Joker's time at UK, I'd say it was used as a reason for Joker's lack of performance...

Hold on... I thought the LPT story was that Joker's attrition has caused Stupes' problems? Which is it?

...And, you are correct, top 20 classes don't lead to titles. This is also the case with Auburn. They had the top 20 classes, but they also had two top 10 classes in the four years leading up to their championship...

But how did classes no better than that overcome all of Auburn's roster attrition issues? I thought Stupes has been recruiting well enough despite Joker's roster attrition to avoid six-game losing streaks? If roster attrition hampers one school, it should hamper all schools, barring consecutive Top Five recruiting classes.

...Bridgewater and Parker were a hell of a tandem, but even together they didn't have the impact of Newton. See his impact at the NFL level for the pathetic Panthers organization...

I don't follow the pros. But certainly, TWO of those guys in the same backfield should have at least gotten U of L in the discussion as national contenders.

...Finally, Stoops is going on his third year at UK. He's had significant attrition, really any attrition at all, his first season. Joker experienced that attrition on an annual basis during his three years. There seems to be some reason for that. If only I could put my finger on it...

I wouldn't sweat it. From what I've seen so far of your coaching, he could have zero attrition and not show much benefit. As usual, you're overlooking the gorilla in the room.

LPT Football: What's actual coaching got to do with it?...

 

[Bill Derington]

Zipp, Auburn had top 10 classes, the attrition was filled with Elite talent. UK was not filling their losses with that kind of player.
Stoops has had 2 classes see actual playing time. Many of those from the best class red shirted. As you've said in this very thread, football isn't about one player or class, it takes time. And going from 2 wins to 5 is improvement isn't it?

 

[Pervis_Griffith]

Zipp, Auburn had top 10 classes, the attrition was filled with Elite talent. UK was not filling their losses with that kind of player.
Stoops has had 2 classes see actual playing time. Many of those from the best class red shirted. As you've said in this very thread, football isn't about one player or class, it takes time. And going from 2 wins to 5 is improvement isn't it?

We keep referencing Cam Newton and Auburn.

I'd just like to point out that according to the overwhelming majority of the football board over at Cats Pause on Rivals, UK should NEVER recruit Cam Newton ... he was, after all, dismissed from Florida, went to JUCO, and then landed at Auburn. These special UK fans will forgo talent to maintain the purity they THINK exists on their team, which is another myth -- exhibit a - there have been more arrests of UK Football players in the past 6 years than U of L football players; and exhibit b - the pre-game thuggish antics of UK players on our side of the field during warm ups with the only intent to try and incite a fight, resulting in ejections before the game started. Stay Classy Cayuts.

 

[Bill Derington]

We keep referencing Cam Newton and Auburn.

I'd just like to point out that according to the overwhelming majority of the football board over at Cats Pause on Rivals, UK should NEVER recruit Cam Newton ... he was, after all, dismissed from Florida, went to JUCO, and then landed at Auburn. These special UK fans will forgo talent to maintain the purity they THINK exists on their team, which is another myth -- exhibit a - there have been more arrests of UK Football players in the past 6 years than U of L football players; and exhibit b - the pre-game thuggish antics of UK players on our side of the field during warm ups with the only intent to try and incite a fight, resulting in ejections before the game started. Stay Classy Cayuts.

How many players does Louisville have that were kicked off other teams?Serious question because I don't know.

 

[zipp]

Zipp, Auburn had top 10 classes, the attrition was filled with Elite talent. UK was not filling their losses with that kind of player. Stoops has had 2 classes see actual playing time. Many of those from the best class red shirted. As you've said in this very thread, football isn't about one player or class, it takes time. And going from 2 wins to 5 is improvement isn't it?

You're wrong again. Auburn's 2008 and 2009 classes were around 20th. (For comparison, LPT's class is currently ranked 13th.)

Auburn's attrition numbers posted earlier were from 2008, and were the highest in the SEC.

Against that backdrop, they won the national championship in 2010.

Stupes has had about the same amount of time in the job. BTW, his 2013 team would have won at least four games playing the 2014 schedule.

LPT Football: Chock full of excuses...

 

[zipp]

How many players does Louisville have that were kicked off other teams?Serious question because I don't know.

Serious question... What's your point?

LPT Football: Choir boys...

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

Serious question... What's your point?

LPT Football: Choir boys...

That topic has become their "go-to" on message boards, despite the problems they've had over the years in their own house.

Grasping at anything to discredit and take away the attention from the success over the years Louisville has had on the football field.

 

[Bill Derington]

Serious question... What's your point?

LPT Football: Choir boys...

That's the same thing Petrino did before, and what Kragthorpe had to clean up, even though you deny it.
You have no problem with the team being built that way?

 

[Bill Derington]

That topic has become their "go-to" on message boards, despite the problems they've had over the years in their own house.

Grasping at anything to discredit and take away the attention from the success over the years Louisville has had on the football field.

It's a serious question ipartied. I'm not saying UK hasn't had issues. But louisville has an abnormal amount of kids that have been kicked off other teams.

It's not discrediting what Louisville has done. Even national media made light of it recently when the young qb from FSU was kicked off the team, it's a real issue.

 

[rockycard]

Bill, UK has had far more players arrested over the last few years than we have. If you guys like to call our players thugs then so be it, but to have a bunch of thugs that lose has to be embarrassing for you guys. Be proud

 

[Bill Derington]

I'm not calling your players thugs. What I'm saying is most P5 colleges don't go after players that have been kicked off teams for disciplinary reasons, and certainly not at the level That Louisville is.
All teams are going to have kids get in trouble, it's just part of it. But to actively bring in kids that have already shown to be an issue is setting yourself up for failure, not to mention what it makes the school look like.

 

[Steelers2012]

It's a serious question ipartied. I'm not saying UK hasn't had issues. But louisville has an abnormal amount of kids that have been kicked off other teams.

It's not discrediting what Louisville has done. Even national media made light of it recently when the young qb from FSU was kicked off the team, it's a real issue.

It's a real issue for who? WE are doing just fine, so I have to assume it's only an issue for our rivals.

 

[Steelers2012]

I'm not calling your players thugs. What I'm saying is most P5 colleges don't go after players that have been kicked off teams for disciplinary reasons, and certainly not at the level That Louisville is.
All teams are going to have kids get in trouble, it's just part of it. But to actively bring in kids that have already shown to be an issue is setting yourself up for failure, not to mention what it makes the school look like.

Setting ourselves up for failure? Bobby Petrino is very accustomed (and successful) with transfers. The vast majority have worked out well for Petrino, but some don't. You know....just like "normal" recruits. Again, it only seems to be an issue for our rivals.

 

[Mike'sMarbles]

Bill, UK has had far more players arrested over the last few years than we have. If you guys like to call our players thugs then so be it, but to have a bunch of thugs that lose has to be embarrassing for you guys. Be proud

Great point. Why is giving second chances to players somehow worse than actual crimes committed by players in your program? Not to say Louisville is clean, but compared to UK? UK has had 18 football players arrested, cited, or charged since 2010. Louisville has had 7.

Kentucky Arrests
Louisville Arrests

 

[zipp]

That's the same thing Petrino did before, and what Kragthorpe had to clean up, even though you deny it...

So, tell me what you know and how? This oughta be good...

LPT Football: Surprising football knowledge...

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

Great point. Why is giving second chances to players somehow worse than actual crimes committed by players in your program? Not to say Louisville is clean, but compared to UK? UK has had 18 football players arrested, cited, or charged since 2010. Louisville has had 7.

Kentucky Arrests
Louisville Arrests

Bill sounds like UK is setting itself up for failure running that kind of program.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

It's a serious question ipartied. I'm not saying UK hasn't had issues.

So since UK's football team has had over twice as many arrests since 2010 than the Louisville football team has had I'd assume the situation @ UK is dire if it's serious at Louisville.

You must be disgusted with the UK football team's off the field problems. Hang in there with that.

 

[zipp]

...What I'm saying is most P5 colleges don't go after players that have been kicked off teams for disciplinary reasons...

Alabama is the best football team in the SEC over the last decade. Yet...

"Most P5 Colleges"

Once again, Bill proving what he knows.

LPT Football: Choir boys...

 

[Bill Derington]

Saban caught tons of heat for taking the young man from Georgia.
I see none of you are willing to actually say how many Louisville has taken, and are quite defensive about it, I would be too.
I don't like the fact UK has had that many arrested. But I would be even more upset if UK were actively going after numerous players that had been kicked off programs after arrest.
And no Zipp, most P 5 programs don't do it at the level Louisville does and you know it, and you also know the extent Kragyhorpe had to clean up the program after Petrino bolted the first time. Selective memory seems to be your forte.

 

[Mike'sMarbles]

I don't like the fact UK has had that many arrested. But I would be even more upset if UK were actively going after numerous players that had been kicked off programs after arrest.

It's actual arrests, of players that are on your team, that grew up in your program. How can that not be the worst thing of all? Because it's so institutionalized across college football, I guess. When it's part of the structure it's almost like it's invisible because "everybody does that." As bad as it is.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

How many players does Louisville have that were kicked off other teams?Serious question because I don't know.

Looks like 2 or 3 out of over 100 guys listed on the roster @ the official website. Maybe a couple more maybe not.

It's an epidemic!

You act as if UofL didn't bring them in to the fold, nobody else would have either.

Go ahead and keep sitting on a holier than thou perch even though UK has had 18 arrests to Louisville's 7 since 2010. Makes lots of sense.

People aren't being defensive, you're just getting treated like the hypocrite you're acting like. The team you root for has had nearly 3 to 1 the amount of arrests in the last five years and you are getting after our off the field standards.

You can't make this stuff up. You just can't. For the record I still like this guy but he's clearly starting to crack @ the pressure here.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

It's actual arrests, of players that are on your team, that grew up in your program. How can that not be the worst thing of all? Because it's so institutionalized across college football, I guess. When it's part of the structure it's almost like it's invisible because "everybody does that." As bad as it is.

Because he's a hypocrite.

But really more than that Mike, he's just uninformed on what's going on @ UK. He had no idea UK had nearly a 3 to 1 #of football off the field arrests compared to Louisville. He just didn't know.


As Zipp pointed out, he tells people they are argumentative and defensive when facts are presented to him that blow up his premises.

 

[zipp]

Saban caught tons of heat for taking the young man from Georgia. I see none of you are willing to actually say how many Louisville has taken, and are quite defensive about it, I would be too. I don't like the fact UK has had that many arrested. But I would be even more upset if UK were actively going after numerous players that had been kicked off programs after arrest. And no Zipp, most P 5 programs don't do it at the level Louisville does and you know it, and you also know the extent Kragyhorpe had to clean up the program after Petrino bolted the first time. Selective memory seems to be your forte.

Last time I checked, Bama was a P5 school. That's all I needed to know to blow the hell outta your argument (again).

And you don't know a damn thing firsthand about U of L--just what you've read or heard other LPT fans spew. A fan of a school like yours has no stones to throw at anyone about off-the-field/court stuff. Some of you are just too stupid to understand that.

LPT Football: Choir boys...

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

And that's the only real takeaway here for this sub-topic. Off the field issues @ UofL are not higher than other places, in fact, compared to our "rival" we are doing pretty good there, only 7 arrests to their 18 in the last five years.

We are merely asking to spare us double standards and hypocritical modes of thinking on our home board. Because if you're going to "call out" our program for character of our players, we simply frame it to show you when comparing to other places - i.e - the team you root for, our guys are hold up better.