Radio caller disparages Coach Mack
- Thread starter KerryRhodes
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You told part of the story.
The other part of the story is the part I told earlier in the thread, which was Behanan's presence played a key role in UofL reaching two FF, and winning one title.
Your narrative that RP reached FFs w/o 5* guys, debunked. Chane was there, doing heavy lifting, as a 5* who received offers from UK and UNC.
You constantly pimp this untrue theory RP reached FFs w/o 5 star players.
Stop rewriting history.
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A great point for a number of reasons.
The main takeaway, even your 2&3 stars are capable of providing headaches, major ones.
I think it is unrealistic to assume that college coaches are there to mold athletes into great human beings. It does happen but their characters when they reach college have already developed as to who they are, see Grayson Allen; boogie, etc. No coaches were going to set these guys on the path to sainthood. As a coach, your job is to win basketball games. It’s how you do it. Look at all the professional athletes in all sports, not all of them are examples of people who deserve respect. Their coaches weren’t responsible for that, they were.
Your AD gave back those Final Fours, so you have nothing to show for it except a memory. And your one 5-star kid was a key reason.
Let's also credit the greater number of 2-star guys on the team. Guys like Luke Hancock and Russ Smith. The same guys who without Behanan comprised a 2014 team with as much potential that folded against the slapd!cks.
Your program has never needed 5-star kids to be successful. Finding one guy who was a black mark on U of L's basketball history doesn't change that.
Another example why you DON'T recruit them. Not sure why you keep helping my argument...
You haven't accurately restated my arguments against 5-star kids... Pitino couldn't be successful with them for a variety of reasons, and he WAS successful without them.
His three Final Four teams had two in total IIRC... Juan Palacios who was more of a role player on the 2005 team, and Behanan who helped win THEN LOSE your 2012-2013 postseasons. The 2014 team was as good without Behanan.
The mantra is L1C4 which is the opposite end of the spectrum from OAD. If you want a team-first program, you don't stock it with players-first recruits.
Then along came pay-for-play which if you had a functioning brain, you should have always been suspicious of. Now it's clear that the highest ranked kids are being paid. And the more highly ranked the kid is, the greater the risk. Ultimately, that doomed your last coach.
There's no evidence that your current coach is immune from its effects. Even if he can manage the egos of 5-star kids in a team-first system, he can't control what's going on off his campus. In this regard, Mack is more under the microscope than Pitino was. The Master was never suspected of being a cheater. Mack's now at a school that is allegedly a serial cheater. You don't expose yourself to undue risk in that situation.
That's my unadulterated position...
You were the first to mention the FF's in this thread at 3:53 PM yesterday - those FF's mattered at that time for you enough to mention them.
You can't even keep up with your own POV's because you move goalposts.
This thread is certainly not about your AD though you just can't help yourself.
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Let's credit everybody - not just the 2 stars, and not just the 5 star. That's telling the entire story, and not rewriting history to fit any agenda.
As stated over and over - if the the fear of recruiting violations is too much for a fan, which... is understandable if it is...the fan needs to find something else to spend their time on.
We all hope they are all clean, there's no need to constantly remind the board of this obvious position.
Mack is pursuing high end players. Another obvious fact.
We all hope they are all clean, there's no need to constantly remind the board of this obvious position.
Mack is pursuing high end players. Another obvious fact.
There's no agenda, just your effort to create one. Pitino's 2011-2013 rosters averaged around 3-1/2 stars.
With facts, you don't need an agenda.
First of all, there's no fear. I don't know what that is.
Secondly, Mack is failing to do what you're implying, signing "high end players". And I'm fine with that--NOT signing those kids is what he should be doing IMO.
My comments are directed to the small faction of our fanbase that things he should be or that's where we're headed. No evidence of that...
Palacios was the team's 2nd leading rebounder, 10 PPG, 27 MPG matching Taquan Dean's playing time.
Either you have a horrible memory, don't know what a role player is (see Otis George's contributions to the team), or just have this massive agenda that doesn't really need the facts for you to pimp it.
You call it.
He just got a commit from the #1 JUCO in the country. #1 is as "high end" of a player you can get. You are really keeping up man! Notice some of his offers down there, UK, Memphis, Mizzou, Oregon. Uh oh!!!!!!!
This is the EXACT type of player you're saying don't take. I'm not even saying they should or shouldn't - but.... they did. So there's that.
"The top-rated JUCO prospect in the country, Scrubb had been a top target for Louisville coach Chris Mack. Other schools Scrubb considered were Alabama, Cincinnati, Kentucky, Memphis, Missouri, Oregon, Texas, Texas Tech and Xavier."
"Scrubb had talked about testing the waters in the 2020 NBA Draft, and that remains an option despite his commitment. He could choose to receive feedback from scouts and still honor his pledge to Louisville."
So let's reread my quote...
"Final Four" is a reference to the rosters of those teams. It's not a reference to what "mattered".
You're trying way too hard to be this bad at it...
Don't forget Otis George if you need him.
Let's see... Garcia, Dean, Myles, O'Bannon... Ask the average fan to quote you the roster on that team, that's as far as you'll get for good reason.
I like Juan. It had nothing to do with how great a player he was, thankfully...
At U of L, zero. Your AD and 5-star player took care of the one you had...
Ring me up when he puts on his uniform and he gets us into a Final Four. Those are the results to MAYBE start to debunk my position...
You got a reference for the star that Palacios was on the 2005 team? Didn't think so...
I'm simply not giving Behanan all of the credit since he wasn't here and had no part in the decision.
What 2&3 star kids were involved? References please...
You said "Secondly, Mack is failing to do what you're implying, signing "high end players", so getting the team to the FF wasn't part of it. There you go man moving some goal posts yet again. Now FF's matter again, they didn't matter yesterday, they didn't matter 30 minutes ago, but now they matter.
Results matter until they don't matter then they matter then they don't matter. Signed, Goal Post Mover of the century, "Your" Zipp
I love your trumpeting TWO 5-star kids on three rosters as indicative of the need for "high end" talent.
And the case examples of Palacios, Behanan, and Bowen. You're almost making my arguments self evident...
Never said he was a star. Another of the many straw man arguments by Zipp.
You've covered most your bases.
Deflection. Check.
Off Topic. Check.
Straw Man Argument. Check.
Moving Goal Posts. Check.
Bashing "your" AD. Check.
Telling Part of a Story. Check.
The vomit sandwich is delivered to the table. I'm gonna hit the road now nothing else left to add. Good job.
5 stars are high end. That's how the metric system works.
Overall #1 seed, E8 team - 5 star Center who starts as a FR.
This ain't football, one 5 star player REALLY matters.
You are the one that referenced the FF teams - you introduced their existence to this thread. You requested a review/discussion about the rosters.
You don't like the truth when it ain't what you wanna hear.
Adios!
No, you're trying to make my arguments for me. It's early, but Mack is NOT filling his roster with 5-star kids anymore than Pitino did. I'm fine with zero, but will Mack get one occasionally? Sure.
You're equating the presence of ANY 5-star kids as somehow refuting my position. It does not except in your mind...
Gotta get back to work. There's no more to add really. You've been destroyed. I just gave you roughly 10 posts that hammer your agenda. 8 is enough + 2 give or take!
Only an agenda would claim that Pitino succeeded with 5-star kids. Today, you're that guy...
I didn't say that Mr. Straw Man.
I said his title team and two most recent FF teams had a 5 star that played a key role.
Learn how to read, or continue the Straw man look.
Pitino was extraordinarily successful with 5 stars - it was just at uk. Despite his best efforts, he was extraordinarily unsuccessful with even getting 5 stars to sign with him at UofL. There are a variety of reasons for this but, explaining them to you would be an utter waste of time, for even if you were able to grasp those concepts, you would reject them simply because they wouldn't fit your narrative of your "Master".
There were apparently even more 2-3 stars that helped LOSE the 2012-2013 postseason - putting a serious hole in your "5 stars ain't nuthin' but trouble" mantra.
Quick newsflash - "pay-for-play" is not a recent phenomenon in CBB and (not) shockingly - it was the better players - let's call them the 5 stars of their day, that received the cash. What doomed the "Master" wasn't pay for play - though that may have been the final nail in his coffin. No, it was his complete inability to maintain a clean program and in a larger context - a clean life. If not him personally (and there's still some question about that) he was the one that hired the coaches that violated the rules time and again. He was the one that failed to supervise them properly. It was under the "Master's" leadership that the program ran into the ditch.
No one is suspected of being a cheater until they are. The "Master" certainly fits into that category now and he has no one to blame but himself and his monumental ego. All the fanboys in the world can't change that now but, it is funny to watch them continue to try...
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