Matt Jones the total idiot

[zipp]

I would not deliberately misquote or quote out of context... not my style. As for exact, does this count?

Yeah, but what's the context? As I recall, it has historically been in a debate AMONG U OF L FANS about the merits of judging a U of L coach in that light. How other fanbases judge their programs with their respective players and coaches is a different matter.

And I wanna hear one of those fans in a fanbase that has a hundred different T-shirt variations counting up national championships tell me that championships aren't the ultimate indicator? If in a discussion on your own message board you wanna debate keeping Pitino Lite despite consistent failure to win a championship with superior talent vs. everyone else, that's your business. That ain't the issue here.

As I've said, your fans get tattoos and T-shirts printed IN ADVANCE proclaiming outcomes. No way in hell you can retrospectively call anything other than a national championship "incredible". Not if you're being honest with yourself and staying away from lipstick.

"Elite program", my a$$...

 

[JustthefaxMa'am]

It seems you guys believe every 5 star player UK gets should develop and be lottery bound but others should not and you believe all high school rankings are accurate. How foolish. Think about it.

 

[OneEarWonder]

Yeah, but what's the context? As I recall, it has historically been in a debate AMONG U OF L FANS about the merits of judging a U of L coach in that light. How other fanbases judge their programs with their respective players and coaches is a different matter.

And I wanna hear one of those fans in a fanbase that has a hundred different T-shirt variations counting up national championships tell me that championships aren't the ultimate indicator? If in a discussion on your own message board you wanna debate keeping Pitino Lite despite consistent failure to win a championship with superior talent vs. everyone else, that's your business. That ain't the issue here.

As I've said, your fans get tattoos and T-shirts printed IN ADVANCE proclaiming outcomes. No way in hell you can retrospectively call anything other than a national championship "incredible". Not if you're being honest with yourself and staying away from lipstick.

"Elite program", my a$$...

The original conversation was around the NCAA tourney in general, back before the boards were reset... not about UL or UK or any specific team or coach. As far as the premature 40-0 shirts and early tattoos... sorry, those numb skulls don't represent me. There are idiots in every group, any fan base has its fanatics. I know I am not alone when I say the season was incredible. Heck of a ride. Would have liked to see the Cats win 2 more games... same goes for the Cards, would have liked to see them win 2 more games. I think some people, regardless of fan base or affiliation, put too much emphasis on it... for me, it's entertainment, not a lifestyle or a core value.

I've never held to the idea that championships are the ultimate indicator, in any sport. They are ONE measure of success, but not the only one.

 

[cardfaninmemphis]

Cal started the 40-0 talk after the 2012 National Championship, and no one has forgotten the idea. They only thing they might have forgotten is that he started it.

Now, I get the idea that a National Championship is ONE measure of success. There are 320-something NCAA Div 1 men's teams and only one can win the National Championship in a given season. For the vast majority of teams, winning their conference and going to the NCAA tournament is a successful season. Winning a game in the tournament is icing on the cake.

For a smaller number of teams, especially those in power conference and most of those in the top tier, getting to the final four is a successful season. Winning the NC would be the cherry on the top.

That brings me to coach Cal at UK. When he did his tour of the Coal Lodge on ESPN in 2012, he pointed out the trophy case with the eight NCAA Championship trophies. Then, he pointed out the empty space in the trophy case that was left for trophy number nine. Later, he made the statement, "We're at Kentucky. They don't talk a whole lot about Final Fours. They don't talk a whole lot about SEC Championships. What they talk about is National Championships. So, it's kinda crazy what we're about here"

So, any UK fan who says that NCs aren't important , I say BS.

To Calipari who says it is about the NBA draft and not NCs, I say BS. I can spot your faux humility at the trophy case. Still, you owned it when you called it, "...what we're about here." (emphasis is mine) I can understand your tentativeness in owning it, as shown in saying "they talk about." (again, emphasis mine) It was after your third year at UK. You had your second Final Four that did not have an asterisk after it, and your first ever NC. Nonetheless, you still owned it. You know the fans, those people whose support pays your salary, own it.

You can find the video here

Just understand that I have a very low tolerance for BS, even more so for BS from fans of opposing teams on the message boards that are supposed to be dedicated to the team I support.

 

[Cardiotonic]

Duke holds the latest title !

The University of Louisville is the last team from this state to win the National Championship yeah feel the burn.......you blue hole .

 

[CardFan1130]

The original conversation was around the NCAA tourney in general, back before the boards were reset... not about UL or UK or any specific team or coach. As far as the premature 40-0 shirts and early tattoos... sorry, those numb skulls don't represent me. There are idiots in every group, any fan base has its fanatics. I know I am not alone when I say the season was incredible. Heck of a ride. Would have liked to see the Cats win 2 more games... same goes for the Cards, would have liked to see them win 2 more games. I think some people, regardless of fan base or affiliation, put too much emphasis on it... for me, it's entertainment, not a lifestyle or a core value.

I've never held to the idea that championships are the ultimate indicator, in any sport. They are ONE measure of success, but not the only one.

You just have a larger percentage of idiots in your fan base....by a large margin. As in most of you

 

[Cards1261]

I'll sum this up. Batty Jones is an idiot and plays to the lowest common denominator of his fan base.

 

[thepip]

The guy's more ate up about U of L than most of our uninvited LPT 'guests' here.

"Elite program", my a$$...

Oh Pot, call Kettle Black-"ignorance going to seed and taking root"

 

[dantucky]

Yep

 

[JustthefaxMa'am]

The University of Louisville is the last team from this state to win the National Championship yeah feel the burn.......you blue hole .

This is the most bizarre argument since they are one year apart. I would rather have 8 than three and if they are one year apart I'm not sure what kind do difference that makes. 20 years may mean something but one? I don't get it. Reeeeeeeaaacccchhhhh

 

[kozmas]

You need to research those 8 titles and see how unimpressive half of them are, Kensuckys 8 National Titles aren't as impressive as UCLA's. UCLA earned their titles during a period where more than 4 teams were invited and they were the best teams. Half of Sucks titles were played in a 4 or 8 team format and it didn't include the best teams. Most of the best teams played in the NIT because it was more prestigious, the National Title game back in the day Suck won half their titles was 2nd fiddle.

 

[zipp]

It seems you guys believe every 5 star player UK gets should develop and be lottery bound but others should not and you believe all high school rankings are accurate. How foolish. Think about it.

Well, why does your coach focus on recruiting 5-star kids? And why does he call draft night the greatest day in LPT basketball each year?

The problem with him is that he doesn't wanna own what he says. And the problem with LPT fans is that they don't want to either.

"Elite program", my a$$...

 

[JC for 3]

Spin it any way you want.... 8 titles is 8 titles. If uofl had 8 titles there'd be no attempt at dissecting them like you're trying to do.

 

[zipp]

Spin it any way you want.... 8 titles is 8 titles. If uofl had 8 titles there'd be no attempt at dissecting them like you're trying to do.

And that's why it's highly relevant when you fail to win one. Esp. as the overwhelming favorite

"Elite program", my a$$...

 

[lkc1234]

Andrew Harrison and Dakari Johnson drafted in the second round. Aaron Harrison not drafted. All three were 5* out of high school and came with the allure of being one and done to the nba. Harrison twins were top ten out of HS.

I blame John Callipari. His players first mentallity fed the Harrison twins self-centeredness and prevented them from developing a team mentality. His platoon system put other players first without developing Dakari Johnson. He cost all of them millions of dollars.

This crap is easy. I don't have a radio show or a law degree from Duke, and I can do what Matt Jones does.

The point here is that Montrez Harrell last year was projected to be drafted high in the first round if he came out while the Harrisons were not projected to be drafted at all. So who was hurt the most by staying in school another year? Hard to argue the facts.

And didn't a couple of 5-star guys stay in school at LPT because they knew they wouldn't be drafted? Either that or they liked the platoon.

"Elite program", my a$$...

 

[Steelers2012]

The point here is that Montrez Harrell last year was projected to be drafted high in the first round if he came out while the Harrisons were not projected to be drafted at all. So who was hurt the most by staying in school another year? Hard to argue the facts.

I don't think Trez was PROJECTED any higher last year than he was PROJECTED this year. His fall in the draft occurred AFTER the combine and workouts. I don't think there can be any question that he improved his stats and overall game from last year to this year.

 

[zipp]

Montrezl was playing with house money. He came in a Top 75-100 kid. The Harrison twins would have jumped straight to the League without the OAD rule/requirement.

Slight difference...

 

[shadow force]

while the Harrisons were not projected to be drafted at all.

Oh but wasn't that Coach Cal's fault? Why didn't he develop them instead of holding them back? After all the Harrisons were sure fire 1 and done, Top 10 NBA lottery locks coming out of high school.

 

[TCurtis75]

Booker was in no draft predictions prior to the season and was considered to be a 2 year player at the least for UK...He steadily climbed up those boards as the season went on. If you are going to say Cal didn't develop the Harrisons (which does have a little validity), then you have to give him credit for developing Booker.

 

[balderthanu]

A LITTLE validity?

 

[Steelers2012]

Booker was in no draft predictions prior to the season and was considered to be a 2 year player at the least for UK...He steadily climbed up those boards as the season went on. If you are going to say Cal didn't develop the Harrisons (which does have a little validity), then you have to give him credit for developing Booker.

Fair enough. The BIG issue I have is rivals who claim a player was either selfishly advised to stay when he should have declared or pushed out the door when he should have returned. Both programs have stories of players who made the right decisions, as well as the wrong decision. I believe Pitino and Calipari BOTH give the player and his family all the feedback and information they can, and leave the decision up to them.

 

[TCurtis75]

Fair enough. The BIG issue I have is rivals who claim a player was either selfishly advised to stay when he should have declared or pushed out the door when he should have returned. Both programs have stories of players who made the right decisions, as well as the wrong decision. I believe Pitino and Calipari BOTH give the player and his family all the feedback and information they can, and leave the decision up to them.

I can definitely agree with that. I think Cal and Pitino want the players to make the best decisions for themselves based on the info each coach provides them. I do think that certain coaches (K and Roy) do what they can to talk their players into staying when they really have no business staying in school or at the very least, they used to.

 

[TCurtis75]

A LITTLE validity?

Why am I not surprised that those 2 words are what you pulled out of my post?

 

[shadow force]

Booker was in no draft predictions prior to the season and was considered to be a 2 year player at the least for UK...He steadily climbed up those boards as the season went on. If you are going to say Cal didn't develop the Harrisons (which does have a little validity), then you have to give him credit for developing Booker.

Right. Then Pitino gets credit for Rozier going as high as he did in the draft. You agree with that correct?

Here's the thing, I can give credit where it is due. Cal gets credit for getting guys like Booker and Harrellson to the pros. However a ton of UK fans that post over here can't do the same for UofL players or Pitino. And that previous post wasn't directed at you btw, it was to a Uk poster that claimed Pitino cost Harrell millions by "holding him back" etc. I was simply saying things that I've seen tons of Uk fans say about UofL players on here- and I'm sure on your own board like Rupp Rafters.

Harrell still got drafted higher than the Harrisons (well one of them anyway because the other wasn't drafted) and Johnson even though he was ranked much lower coming out of HS.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

Right. Then Pitino gets credit for Rozier going as high as he did in the draft. You agree with that correct?

And credit for Dieng and Smith getting drafted. And where was Harrell projected prior to his arrival to campus? Oh yeah, he wasn't on the radar.

 

[TCurtis75]

I think you are directing the above 2 arguments at the wrong person. I never said anything about Harrell, Rozier, Dieng, or Russ. I was merely responding to the statements that Cal doesn't develop players. I think we all know Pitino does develop players. He actually flourishes in it (this next part will sound like a dig at Pitino. It isn't but I don't know any other way to say it) because he has too. For whatever reason, Pitino in recent history has struggled to get the higher profile/ranked recruits. He has had to develop some lesser ranked players for UL to achieve success and he has done exactly that.

However, to say Cal doesn't develop players is a fallacy. He developed Booker into a lottery pick and he developed Harrelson into a player that got drafted.

For both Cal and Pitino, I wonder if they failed to develop others or if those others didn't put in the effort themselves. Take the Harrison twins for Cal and someone like Character or Samardo Samuels or even Wayne Blackshear for Pitino. None reached their potential but was it the coaching or was it the players themselves. If you want to say that Cal didn't develop the Harrisons which I can understand. You have to say that Pitino didn't develop Wayne Blackshear who was a kid that was named Chicago's player of the year over Anthony Davis and whom many UL fans labeled as a better ball player than Davis.

 

[Cue Card]

Fair enough. The BIG issue I have is rivals who claim a player was either selfishly advised to stay when he should have declared or pushed out the door when he should have returned. Both programs have stories of players who made the right decisions, as well as the wrong decision. I believe Pitino and Calipari BOTH give the player and his family all the feedback and information they can, and leave the decision up to them.

It's not fair enough because it isn't true. Booker was considered the best shooting 2 guard in the class and ranked 29th over all. Booker is a big shooting guard who uses his size and strength to counter more athletic wings. He is a very effective catch and shoot player and he's hard to take the ball from because of his size. Those are the reasons he went in the lottery. Rightfully so I might add. He's a terrific player. Calipari had as much to do with his development as I did. He doesn't develop players. He markets them and he does it well.

 

[TCurtis75]

It's not fair enough because it isn't true. Booker was considered the best shooting 2 guard in the class and ranked 29th over all. Booker is a big shooting guard who uses his size and strength to counter more athletic wings. He is a very effective catch and shoot player and he's hard to take the ball from because of his size. Those are the reasons he went in the lottery. Rightfully so I might add. He's a terrific player. Calipari had as much to do with his development as I did. He doesn't develop players. He markets them and he does it well.

Typically, a 29th ranked player doesn't go pro...He climbed the rankings although the ranking I found listed him as 43. So I am guessing Josh Harrellson was drafted because of marketing and not development?

Regardless, my point about Booker is still valid. He was not listed in any mock drafts until the season progressed. He developed into a lottery pick based on his play through the season. He gets a lot of the credit but Cal has to get some for helping him improve his play and develop over the course of the season as well.

 

[Cue Card]

Typically, a 29th ranked player doesn't go pro...He climbed the rankings although the ranking I found listed him as 43. So I am guessing Josh Harrellson was drafted because of marketing and not development?

Josh Harrellson got his cup of coffee in the league because he was able to practice against a professional for a full year. Without Kanter there helping his game, Harrelllson doesn't do as well. Of course it's always nice to be almost 7 foot tall too. There always seems to be a spot for a 7 footer (even if for a short time)

 

[cardfaninmemphis]

The point here is that Montrez Harrell last year was projected to be drafted high in the first round if he came out while the Harrisons were not projected to be drafted at all. So who was hurt the most by staying in school another year? Hard to argue the facts.

You want facts? Okay here are facts.

Last year, Harrell was PROJECTED to be a high draft pick. Projections are guesses: not guarantees. That is the only statement that is factual here. Saying that Harrell would have done better if he entered the 2014 draft is NOT A FACT. It is an OPINION. Nobody really knows where Harrell would have gone last year. The same people who had Harrell as a high first round draft pick this year had him as a high first round draft pick last year. Some "draft experts" even had him as a lottery pick last year and some "draft experts" also had him as a lottery pick this year. Not all of them had him that high last year or this. Nonetheless, It doesn't matter what anybody projected. PROJECTIONS ARE NOT FACTS. You are wrong to claim them as anything otherwise.

Regarding the Harrisons, you are right that they have a different situation.
Facts: They were both top 10 kids out of high school. They have the size to be NBA guards. They hit clutch long range 3 point shots in big games and they made the final four in both years at UK.
My opinion (which I think many people share): they have the shooting touch, the driving skills, a lot of talent, and they came with the expectation of being one and done. Even if you don't share my opinion about them, all players in the NBA draft have weaknesses, and a lot of draft decisions are based on potential. No NBA rookie is a finished product.
So, what happened to them?

If Matt Jones wants to blame Pitino for the outcome of a player, I am going to call BS, and I am going to back up my call of BS by turning his story right back onto his beloved team and their coach.

If you agree with Matt Jones, then the message is for you as well.

 

[cardfaninmemphis]

Spin it any way you want.... 8 titles is 8 titles. If uofl had 8 titles there'd be no attempt at dissecting them like you're trying to do.

I am confused here. Is the National Title the goal at UK or not?

 

[cardsp]

You want facts? Okay here are facts.

Last year, Harrell was PROJECTED to be a high draft pick. Projections are guesses: not guarantees. That is the only statement that is factual here. Saying that Harrell would have done better if he entered the 2014 draft is NOT A FACT. It is an OPINION. Nobody really knows where Harrell would have gone last year. The same people who had Harrell as a high first round draft pick this year had him as a high first round draft pick last year. Some "draft experts" even had him as a lottery pick last year and some "draft experts" also had him as a lottery pick this year. Not all of them had him that high last year or this. Nonetheless, It doesn't matter what anybody projected. PROJECTIONS ARE NOT FACTS. You are wrong to claim them as anything otherwise.

Regarding the Harrisons, you are right that they have a different situation.
Facts: They were both top 10 kids out of high school. They have the size to be NBA guards. They hit clutch long range 3 point shots in big games and they made the final four in both years at UK.
My opinion (which I think many people share): they have the shooting touch, the driving skills, a lot of talent, and they came with the expectation of being one and done. Even if you don't share my opinion about them, all players in the NBA draft have weaknesses, and a lot of draft decisions are based on potential. No NBA rookie is a finished product.
So, what happened to them?

If Matt Jones wants to blame Pitino for the outcome of a player, I am going to call BS, and I am going to back up my call of BS by turning his story right back onto his beloved team and their coach.

If you agree with Matt Jones, then the message is for you as well.

Matt Jones is a idiot and preys on the dumb UK fans...this is what he really thinks:
Matt Jones Says:
April 6th, 2008 at 12:57 am

I am not going to make a post on the subject. But travel in recruiting circles and you won't find anyone who thinks that program is clean. You are free to have any feeling about Calipari u wish but I am not a fan of his tactics on building a program.

 

[zipp]

You can always pick examples each way to make your point. If you look at the full body of work, you get a better picture. Did Pitino Lite move Booker and Harrelson along further/faster than most expected? Yes.

And have the Harrisons, Poythress, and Lee been busts on the flipside? You gotta be honest and say "yes". At least so far.

So, Pitino Lite gets credit for developing some and hindering others. Which means that on balance, his tutelage has little or no effect. His system receives good players and sends out pretty much the same players.

Anyone disagree with that reasoning??

"Elite program", my a$$...

 

[zipp]

I am confused here. Is the National Title the goal at UK or not?

Apparently it is as long as they win it.

"Elite program", my a$$...

 

[kozmas]

I am not spinning anything I am just telling you the facts and if you want to use the 8 titles as part of your argument then be ready for someone who knows the facts to throw it back at you.

 

[REDFISTFURY3]

Cal didn't develop Booker either Booker is nothing more than a spot up shooter who just happens to be light skinned and can shoot the BB. Nothing but perfect timing due to Clay Thompson whom the media said Booker looked liked. Said he was a splash brothers clone. Thats a fact put Booker on any other team he would have been exposed teams would have taken him out cause he cannot do anything else. When teams focused on him later in the season and the tourney what happened he couldn't hit the side of the barn.

 

[zipp]

This is a new one on me since I don't follow the NBA (or come close as Rye will tell you...) Not saying I have a problem with the POV, but are you saying that "light skinned" black guys in the NBA are the shooting rage these days? Interesting...

 

[Cardiotonic]

This is the most bizarre argument since they are one year apart. I would rather have 8 than three and if they are one year apart I'm not sure what kind do difference that makes. 20 years may mean something but one? I don't get it. Reeeeeeeaaacccchhhhh

You don't get much because you're a typical blue hole and the only thing that you reach for amounts to nothing at all.

 

[CardFan1130]

Can someone fill me in on the "blue hole" joke? Kind of silly and Cardiotonic says it endlessly. Sounds like a 12 year old really

 

[OneEarWonder]

Can someone fill me in on the "blue hole" joke? Kind of silly and Cardiotonic says it endlessly. Sounds like a 12 year old really

He made it up, hoping it will catch on. It's just about all he posts anymore... Someone needs to tell him to stop trying to make fetch happen...