hopgood??...

[zipp]

Wrong. 63% of the homers voting on his twitter in June are.... somewhere under 22 wins and not expecting much.

Fans aren't where YOU are, putting him on a HOT seat in the middle of FBI and hookers a few months before he's coached a single game.

hop, it's OK to be wrong. If you wanna set Mack's bar on the season at .500, that's your prerogative. Clearly, there wouldn't be over/under Twitter polls at 20+ wins and fans heartily engaged if your POV was anywhere close to the majority view. And you're just spinning your wheels with efforts to sidetrack and get into the weeds.

I've said before that I don't really give a damn whether Mack succeeds or fails. That will be determined in time with data points and analysis. At the moment, I'm not predicting any outcome other than I'll be watching him and the fanbase. Maybe I shouldn't be goading you over your POV expressed previously, but I guess that's what I do. Sorry I'm who I am...

 

[zipp]

Here's a guy oblivious to the impact of the FBI with the NCAA selection process. USC had 23 wins and finished outright 2nd in a power 5 and got snubbed.... because of their FBI issues.

21 wins may have been a guarantee before the FBI. Maybe. Though the NCAA selection squad can never be trusted. If you're the poster child for the FBI (your words not mine!) then the selection process is a little different for you than the rest of the teams these days.

I don't know about USC nor do I care. When was the last ACC team or a team with our SOS left outta the tourney with 20+ wins? And at what frequency does that happen? Your USC example may simply be a case of "there's a brown dog; therefore all dogs are brown."

You're also gonna have to bring something a little more substantial that the NCAA selection committee openly discriminates against teams on the NCAA hot seat.

Again, these are side issues. My point is/was/will be that you are incorrectly gauging fan expectations for the coming season. Knock yourself out with this other stuff...

Lots of things to discuss. Current players on the team, the FBI, the schedule, style of play, former Cards in the pros, former Cards trying to make the pros, ACC, recruiting.

Sure the coach too.

But every single thread doesn't need the same tired agenda you've been pumping up all summer.

Since you asked.

It's tired for you, but you're the only regular poster I've seen set such a low bar for Mack this season. Better to debate--again--the merits of that POV than trying to attack me. But suit yourself...

 

[shadow force]

I've said before that I don't really give a damn whether Mack succeeds or fails.

This is what I don't understand, Zipp. As a UofL fan, why wouldn't you give a damn if Mack fails or succeeds?

I sure hope Mack succeeds because that means the Cards basketball program is doing well which I would hope all UofL fans would want to see.

 

[zipp]

This is what I don't understand, Zipp. As a UofL fan, why wouldn't you give a damn if Mack fails or succeeds?

I sure hope Mack succeeds because that means the Cards and basketball program are doing well which I would hope all UofL fans would want to see.

I'm speaking about individuals, not the institution or a sport. Nor does it affect my non-financial support as a fan; I'll be at most games, as many as possible.

I've said this many times in the past, coaches are just hired guns--all of them. That's how they can lie to you about how committed they are to your program while they're talking to someone else about a job. My advice no matter how good they are or what they say is to never fall in love with them. Treat them as they should be treated. Objectively.

You show up for games and cheer, and you only contribute more financially when you have confidence in your leadership. Your leaders are the ones spending your money. And that confidence should be earned, not credited or awarded.

If Mack performs a miracle this year and gets most of the credit, that's fine with me. He'll likely deserve it. And if he fails miserably, he'll get the blame as he should. I always want to be successful on the scoreboard, but how that translates to Mack personally is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned...

 

[Chapman123]

This is what I don't understand, Zipp. As a UofL fan, why wouldn't you give a damn if Mack fails or succeeds?

I sure hope Mack succeeds because that means the Cards basketball program is doing well which I would hope all UofL fans would want to see.

I was thinking the same damn thing. Zipp may have a new school to root for soon if Jurich gets the USF job.

 

[zipp]

Life ain't black-and-white, people. You can be all-in or all-out, but that's trying to oversimplify YOUR life. It ain't anyone else's reality...

 

[gocards1987]

I'm speaking about individuals, not the institution or a sport. Nor does it affect my non-financial support as a fan; I'll be at most games, as many as possible.

I've said this many times in the past, coaches are just hired guns--all of them. That's how they can lie to you about how committed they are to your program while they're talking to someone else about a job. My advice no matter how good they are or what they say is to never fall in love with them. Treat them as they should be treated. Objectively.

You show up for games and cheer, and you only contribute more financially when you have confidence in your leadership. Your leaders are the ones spending your money. And that confidence should be earned, not credited or awarded.

If Mack performs a miracle this year and gets most of the credit, that's fine with me. He'll likely deserve it. And if he fails miserably, he'll get the blame as he should. I always want to be successful on the scoreboard, but how that translates to Mack personally is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned...

If the team succeeds Mack succeeds, you can't have one without the other. I can't stand Petrino but I have to root for him to succeed cause his success of failure is that of the team and program.

 

[zipp]

If the team succeeds Mack succeeds, you can't have one without the other...

That may well be true, but they're not the same thing.

And that distinction on my part has nothing to do with my fan support--even less to do with my financial support which is where this tangent started. If the all-in crowd can't understand that, I don't know what to tell you...

 

[gocards1987]

That may well be true, but they're not the same thing.

And that distinction on my part has nothing to do with my fan support--even less to do with my financial support which is where this tangent started. If the all-in crowd can't understand that, I don't know what to tell you...

Is it even possible for Mack to gain your support or will Zipp’s fan and financial support be gone until we have coach hired after the Tyra era.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

If you wanna set Mack's bar on the season at .500, that's your prerogative.

Straw man argument.

I've never at any point suggested .500 is a prediction or an expectation.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

It's tired for you, but you're the only regular poster I've seen set such a low bar for Mack this season. Better to debate--again--the merits of that POV than trying to attack me. But suit yourself...

I have already provided you the reasons why I don't expect or predict a great season.

Hookers, the FBI, no recruiting class, a brutal schedule, leading returning rebounder is 6-4, ace shot blocking gone, leading returning scorer is an under-achiever through 2 years, majority of rotation has left the program, PG questions, depth questions, 3rd coach in 3 years for the Jrs, 3 pt shooting concerns, roles for young players changing significantly, transfers as unknown quantities... I just don't know how much of this to put on Mack when these are the problems he inherited...I'm just choosing to let the cake bake and see how he handles it.

Your rebuttal is Mack is supposed to be great and he makes a lot of $. Ok. I get it. I got it when you said it the 50th time about a month ago.

I don't have them going .500 or worse if I'm guessing, I'm pushing them around 20 wins maybe a win or two less.

How can anybody really know what to expect when they return 1 starter? Nobody can be for sure either way. It's a lot of guesswork. I side with the 63% expecting < 22 wins. You know, the majority. Guess I'm a follower and not a leader. Rats.

 

[zipp]

Is it even possible for Mack to gain your support or will Zipp’s fan and financial support be gone until we have coach hired after the Tyra era.

As far as the season, I've already said what I'm expecting for Mack... Not much different than this past season, a bubble team that falls just short of an NCAA bid. If he makes the Big Dance, that will be overachieving in my eyes. And that will be one of the hallmarks of great coaching; not absolute proof, but the first indicator.

He does that routinely--overachieves based on reasonable expectations--he will earn my props as a "great" coach. You don't get that a few months into the job without having coached a game. It takes most coaches a lifetime. Obviously, Mack has to be clean of the FBI/NCAA garbage, and we don't even know that yet.

I'll support U of L basketball by attending games regardless. Financial support has almost nothing to do with Mack. That's about the quality of U of L's leadership, and I see very little reason for my attitude on that to change anytime soon...

 

[zipp]

...I don't have them going .500 or worse if I'm guessing, I'm pushing them around 20 wins maybe a win or two less...

I don't recall you expressing even that much optimism before, but it's not worth my time researching it. ...Maybe because we hadn't added anyone to the roster. Sounds like you and I are actually expressing similar results now, but that we may look at those results differently. Let me ask you this...

Will you set a number below which the season starts to be disappointing? Before, I don't recall that you would. And that's my problem with a coach paid $4 million a year and perceived to be "great". Hell, Padgett didn't get that slack cut him with no experience and paid 20% as much money.

I am far from a Mack hater, but I have no problem holding his feet to the fire already and expecting others to do the same. And that doesn't mean I'm oblivious to what Mack has walked into. If those circumstances simply water down expectations, I'm not sure why we canned Padgett...

 

[Cardinal Cash]

I don't recall you expressing even that much optimism before, but it's not worth my time researching it. ...Maybe because we hadn't added anyone to the roster. Sounds like you and I are actually expressing similar results now, but that we may look at those results differently. Let me ask you this...

Will you set a number below which the season starts to be disappointing? Before, I don't recall that you would. And that's my problem with a coach paid $4 million a year and perceived to be "great". Hell, Padgett didn't get that slack cut him with no experience and paid 20% as much money.

I am far from a Mack hater, but I have no problem holding his feet to the fire already and expecting others to do the same. And that doesn't mean I'm oblivious to what Mack has walked into. If those circumstances simply water down expectations, I'm not sure why we canned Padgett...

Before Padgett took over people expected last year’s team to make the sweet 16 or elite 8. Granted we lost Brian Bowen, but one player doesn’t make the difference of going to the second weekend in the tournament vs not making it at all. Rick would have had that roster in the tournament. People think Mack likely would too. Padgett wasn’t ready. Theres no shame in that. He’s only 30.

 

[zipp]

...Rick would have had that roster in the tournament. People think Mack likely would too...

Anyone who gauges that chance as "likely" should be mad as hell we're paying Mack $4 million. U of L's paying Mack freaking 80% of what they were paying Pitino. The guy needs to start earning that money this year...

 

[Cardinal Cash]

Anyone who gauges that chance as "likely" should be mad as hell we're paying Mack $4 million. U of L's paying Mack freaking 80% of what they were paying Pitino. The guy needs to start earning that money this year...

If he gets this team to the tournament then he will have earned that money. Deep NIT run with essentially the backups from last season as his starters and he has met expectations.

 

[zipp]

If he gets this team to the tournament then he will have earned that money. Deep NIT run with essentially the backups from last season as his starters and he has met expectations.

No NIT this year.

And we were talking about LAST year's team in that last exchange...

...Rick would have had that roster in the tournament. People think Mack likely would too...

 

[Cardinal Cash]

No NIT this year.

And we were talking about LAST year's team in that last exchange...

So you think tournament or bust this year? And I recognize that. I think Mack would have won a few more games and we would have made the tournament.

 

[HedleyLamarr]

I expect this team to be pretty good, and great fun to watch, but there are many, many ifs and buts to consider. Enoch needs to live up to his high school expectations. King needs to finally be a stud. Nwora needs to build on a very promising freshman year. Williams needs to beef up and start living up to his potential. Sutton and Akoy need to be bangers. The guards need to shoot well. Everybody needs to master the pack line defense. They have the pieces to be pretty good, so there is every opportunity for the coaches to earn their pay. Twenty plus and the tournament is a very reasonable expectation, and less would be a big disappointment.

 

[zipp]

So you think tournament or bust this year? And I recognize that. I think Mack would have won a few more games and we would have made the tournament.

I don't really think it's relevant to debate how well Mack would have done with last year's roster. All I can say is if he wouldn't have performed better, we're blazing down the wrong trail now.

To clarify, I think Mack is a good coach, but I'm not convinced he's great. For that reason, I expect this team will fall just short of an NCAA bid, more or less like last year. That won't disappoint me.

However, I predict that by the start of the season, a majority of fans will be expecting this team to squeak into the NCAA tourney. So much so that there will be disappointment if/when that doesn't happen. Ironically, I may be taking fans to task by season's end for being unrealistically optimistic.

And if Mack beats those odds, I'll give him credit...

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

I don't recall you expressing even that much optimism before, but it's not worth my time researching it..

I have taken a position to temper expectations. That's all. I don't see a strong season year one. I want to be wrong.

 

[Morgantown Card]

I've said before that I don't really give a damn whether Mack succeeds or fails.

Why aren't you rooting for Louisville to win?

 

[Senore2006]

I l

I expect this team to be pretty good, and great fun to watch, but there are many, many ifs and buts to consider. Enoch needs to live up to his high school expectations. King needs to finally be a stud. Nwora needs to build on a very promising freshman year. Williams needs to beef up and start living up to his potential. Sutton and Akoy need to be bangers. The guards need to shoot well. Everybody needs to master the pack line defense. They have the pieces to be pretty good, so there is every opportunity for the coaches to earn their pay. Twenty plus and the tournament is a very reasonable expectation, and less would be a big disappointment.

Personally, I like and subscribe to this view. The actual Honeymoon will be the ones the fans will experience. Everyone is hugely curious about Mack's upcoming style of play. With highly motivated players, despite their overall lack of experience, this team can do any number of things. Nwora is tearing it up internationally. VJ - the eternal mystery - has a shot at making us forget our angst about him. Perry is simply fun to watch play............then there is Enoch, Malik, the occasionally irrepressible Sutton playing within himself..........McMahon..............lots to like, if a bit thin. And maybe that's a good thing too.

I suspect we are in for a treat.........a wide open competition for minutes, an incredibly hard OOC schedule, the usual gauntlet of ACC teams. :Lots of mysteries and a time to see coaching competence after last season's nursery experience.

I see a season where we lose some games up front, then develop as the season wears on. Where that leads is anyone's guess but, like everyone, a new beginning is most definitely worth a look..

 

[zipp]

Why aren't you rooting for Louisville to win?

I always pull for Louisville to win as I have for 40+ years. No exceptions...

 

[Morgantown Card]

I always pull for Louisville to win as I have for 40+ years. No exceptions...

OK, thought so. Your post that I quoted above seemed contrary to that (ie, Mack's success by correlation is Louisville's success).

 

[zipp]

OK, thought so. Your post that I quoted above seemed contrary to that (ie, Mack's success by correlation is Louisville's success).

Again, that's oversimplifying the way I look at things. There is U of L and there are U of L employees, and they are not all the same.

I'm not all-in with U of L anymore the way I pretty much was with the prior regime that had been in place for more than a decade. And I was only that way because the individual parties deserved that support.

If that's the only way some or many fans can be--all in or out--I understand that. But that's analogous to saying the world exists in B&W with no shades of gray. Few believe that or at least say they do...

 

[MikeMcCammon]

Your new coach should get a complete pass for a couple of years. He'll be fine but he isnt a miracle worker. If he gets to 20 wins next season, which I doubt he will, your entire fanbase should kiss his feet.

Exactly. The talent we now have in the program makes Pitino's first team here look like Golden State. I don't see 20 wins next year, not even close, but if it happens I will be ecstatic.