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Forde Article on Tyra / UofL Athletics

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Your boy "Vince" was negligent, pure and simple. Say it.

And I don't recall anyone--including you--asking for anyone's head post stripper-gate. To the contrary, FANS were ready to burn Ramsey in effigy for deciding to self impose.

You ain't rewriting history, although I understand how you wanna try...

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I thought at the time and still do that Pitino should’ve been fired after the Powell stuff came out. It was one of the biggest missteps in TJ’s career. It’s a damn shame really.
 
I thought at the time and still do that Pitino should’ve been fired after the Powell stuff came out. It was one of the biggest missteps in TJ’s career. It’s a damn shame really.

Well, in hindsight, I have to agree. There are those that say Pitino didn’t know anything. In retrospect I have to totally disagree with that sentiment. I have to believe that at least one of his players went to him and “let him in on the big secret” and that he elected to either close his eyes to the situation or to call Andre McGee in to get him to close the “dancing” down. In that regard I can see Pitino remembering his own youthful days and thinking that young men will be young men. And I agree that it was a huge misstep by Tom Jurich. I would think that he truly regrets his inaction. But this is all just my own opinion.

GO CARDS - BEAT EVERYBODY!!! God Bless America!!!
 
Your boy "Vince" was negligent, pure and simple. Say it.

And I don't recall anyone--including you--asking for anyone's head post stripper-gate. To the contrary, FANS were ready to burn Ramsey in effigy for deciding to self impose.

You ain't rewriting history, although I understand how you wanna try...

Well “Zipp”, I do try to be as reasonable and fair about these issues as much as possible. It’s curious that you refer to Tyra derisively as “your boy”, when what he is to me is simply the current AD of the athletic program that I have followed and supported for many years, and so I would like for him to be successful.

As for my opinion concerning the fates of Pitino and Jurich “post stripper-gate”, I joined this site less than a year ago, which you should be able to easily tell, and so I am sure that you would cast doubt on anything I might say about my opinions before that time, and so I think it better that I not discuss when it was that I came to the conclusion that both needed to be fired. (February 5, 2016.)

As for the real estate situation, I though that I was clear enough on that, but I am happy to go further. Yes, Tyra failed to prevent that from happening, and that was an error. The mistake was quickly rectified, it was absolutely a comparatively minor issue, and unless it recurs, I think the book is closed on it. Can you likewise admit that, following the stripper revelations, from the period of about August 2015 to September 2017, Jurich failed in what had to be job # 1 at the time, which was to ensure that no NCAA infractions would recur? If you can, then maybe we can find some common ground.
 
I thought at the time and still do that Pitino should’ve been fired after the Powell stuff came out. It was one of the biggest missteps in TJ’s career. It’s a damn shame really.
Kinda like the U of L Board. You get no credit for sitting on your hands...
 
Well “Zipp”, I do try to be as reasonable and fair about these issues as much as possible. It’s curious that you refer to Tyra derisively as “your boy”, when what he is to me is simply the current AD of the athletic program that I have followed and supported for many years, and so I would like for him to be successful.

As for my opinion concerning the fates of Pitino and Jurich “post stripper-gate”, I joined this site less than a year ago, which you should be able to easily tell, and so I am sure that you would cast doubt on anything I might say about my opinions before that time, and so I think it better that I not discuss when it was that I came to the conclusion that both needed to be fired. (February 5, 2016.)

As for the real estate situation, I though that I was clear enough on that, but I am happy to go further. Yes, Tyra failed to prevent that from happening, and that was an error. The mistake was quickly rectified, it was absolutely a comparatively minor issue, and unless it recurs, I think the book is closed on it. Can you likewise admit that, following the stripper revelations, from the period of about August 2015 to September 2017, Jurich failed in what had to be job # 1 at the time, which was to ensure that no NCAA infractions would recur? If you can, then maybe we can find some common ground.
I'll give you a pass if you weren't here to voice an opinion. Even if you were a voice in the wilderness, as I said, there were plenty of people who wanted to circle the wagons in late 2014. Jurich and Pitino had to both come to Ramsey's defense for taking any medicine with the NCAA.

So saying what SHOULD have been done when you (rhetorically) were silent or saying the opposite in the aftermath means almost nothing. Nobody was asking for Pitino's head but Pitino haters.

And if "rectified" gets you home, the record shows that Andre McGee was taken out and shot. Was that response OK with you? We're all geniuses in hindsight. In hindsight, Pitino was making bad managerial decisions. Gee, I wish we all had known that in 2015.

To my knowledge, Jurich himself was never implicated in a decision in which he could personally profit--a decision like Lynn Stadium and Louisville City FC. Nor did he beat his drum about how unethical his forebears were while committing the same type of transgressions. That IMO is what differentiates "Vince"...
 
I voiced my opinion at the time. Apparently Jurich didn’t see that post.
So did you get much pushback from fans in this space, and do you recall anything specifically? Did you similarly speak out against the crowd who wanted to tar and feather Ramsey for self imposing? Did you openly support Ramsey with his decision as you claim you spoke against Pitino?

All of that stuff has to hang together. And I'm having a hard time remembering ANYONE who stepped up with that opinion and was outspoken about it...
 
So did you get much pushback from fans in this space, and do you recall anything specifically? Did you similarly speak out against the crowd who wanted to tar and feather Ramsey for self imposing? Did you openly support Ramsey with his decision as you claim you spoke against Pitino?

All of that stuff has to hang together. And I'm having a hard time remembering ANYONE who stepped up with that opinion and was outspoken about it...

My thoughts on Pitino were unpopular. Surely someone as respected as TJ could’ve handled any blowback from what may have been an unpopular decision. You aren’t saying TJ was weak in this space are you?
 
Your boy "Vince" was negligent, pure and simple. Say it.

And I don't recall anyone--including you--asking for anyone's head post stripper-gate. To the contrary, FANS were ready to burn Ramsey in effigy for deciding to self impose.

You ain't rewriting history, although I understand how you wanna try...

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B
My thoughts on Pitino were unpopular. Surely someone as respected as TJ could’ve handled any blowback from what may have been an unpopular decision. You aren’t saying TJ was weak in this space are you?
Good post . You seem to be a very logical and supportive UL fan. You and others like you are the reason I visit this site. I do like to visit this board, especially during basketball season. I know it is a slow period right now but for several months most posts , regardless of the original topic seem to morph into an anti Tyra thread. Most UL fans seem to be ready to move on but a (small)handful , again small handful of people appear to care more about the past than they do the future. I look forward to the sports seasons and hopefully meaningful discussion about the teams.
 
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It’s a shame the previous AD didn’t oversee his hires more thoroughly and let them run into multiple scandals and almost tarnish our program and legacy. We can now restore integrity. I guess integrity doesn’t mean much to some of you guys. Bummer.

We really do have some exponentially ungrateful fans out there. Oh well, I guess you enjoyed our previous life as a mid-major athletic department. Whatever floats your boat, I suppose.

JP
 
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We really do have some exponentially ungrateful fans out there. Oh well, I guess you enjoyed our previous life as a mid-major athletic department. Whatever floats your boat, I suppose.

JP
As an alum and a life long fan of the University of Louisville, I want our school and program to be looked at in a positive light, not riddled with scandals and deceit. Winning at all costs must mean more to you than having a solid reputation and upholding integrity on all fronts. Oh well.
 
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My thoughts on Pitino were unpopular. Surely someone as respected as TJ could’ve handled any blowback from what may have been an unpopular decision. You aren’t saying TJ was weak in this space are you?
I'm saying that support for Pitino and Jurich in 2015 was strong, and that I don't recall a single person who claims what you're claiming...
 
I'm saying that support for Pitino and Jurich in 2015 was strong, and that I don't recall a single person who claims what you're claiming...

I think many people would’ve gone along with whatever TJ felt was prudent. Unfortunately he made a wrong decision and it cost him and the university significantly. I would hope he wasn’t influenced by the need to be popular. It sounds like that’s what you are suggesting.
 
I think many people would’ve gone along with whatever TJ felt was prudent. Unfortunately he made a wrong decision and it cost him and the university significantly. I would hope he wasn’t influenced by the need to be popular. It sounds like that’s what you are suggesting.
Has nothing to do with popularity.

But it has everything to do with support for TJ's decision making. That decision making can only be questioned now in hindsight--except for one guy if I accept your evidence...
 
If Kerry we’re here, he would say, it’s U of L not UL, dumbass.
Lol what a pathetic rebuttal. Zippy junior’s head hurts. Kerry wouldn’t give a **** because it’s a dumb thing to cry about. Underwriters Laboratory?!? You are so rustled by me it’s amazing! Hahaha
 
I'm not sure he's even got that much going for him...
Says the retired pool pusher struggling to stay afloat in Indiana Lololol. Have fun stealing money from the University by taking others seats at games. No wonder Turtleneck and Ramsey were God’s to you, they were thieves just like yourself!
 
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Lol what a pathetic rebuttal. Zippy junior’s head hurts. Kerry wouldn’t give a **** because it’s a dumb thing to cry about. Underwriters Laboratory?!? You are so rustled by me it’s amazing! Hahaha
If you were a long time poster on this board, you would know my statement is true.
 
Nccardfan, you’re talking to an ass clown who pretends to be a Louisville fan so he can put Louisville down.
You might as well be Zipp’s nephew. I actually talk Louisville basketball on this board, not how bad you hate the new administration and keep living in the past. Fake fan. Haha. Keep talking about Jurich and I’ll keep living in the present supporting my Alma Mater.
 
Just because you went to Louisville doesn’t make you a fan. Most of your post about Louisville are negative even when your not talking about TJ. So take you small self and be happy wearing your Blew.
 
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And if "rectified" gets you home, the record shows that Andre McGee was taken out and shot. Was that response OK with you? We're all geniuses in hindsight. In hindsight, Pitino was making bad managerial decisions. Gee, I wish we all had known that in 2015...
Again, I have agreed that the real-estate situation deal should never have happened and that Tyra was at fault for that, but it was a comparatively small error that was rectified, or remediated and negated, by Tyra’s daughter giving up the financial benefits such that, in effect, she actually lost out on the deal, having worked to secure three deals and ending up with nothing for her time. More importantly, I think that the resolution ensures that something like that won’t recur within the athletic department anytime soon.
But, Andre McGee??? Whatever happened to him didn’t rectify anything. The administration that you suggest was without fault thought that to rectify stripper-gate required a post-season ban (throwing the team, especially Lee and Lewis under the bus, showing a total disregard for players who had no involvement in the scandal), plus scholarship reductions. And the NCAA said more was needed, including vacation of victories.
Following the stripper scandal, beyond the “bad managerial decisions” by Pitino (nice spin!), there was also a lack of appropriate oversight from Jurich. I don’t know about you, but back then I had every expectation that procedures would be put in place to prevent any recurrences. And so, after tremendous work with facilities, coaches, and the move to the ACC, Jurich failed, for whatever reason, in what should have been his clear #1 duty at that time, which was to prevent a recurrence of major NCAA infractions. That’s all. No mas.
 
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Again, I have agreed that the real-estate situation deal should never have happened and that Tyra was at fault for that, but it was a comparatively small error that was rectified, or remediated and negated, by Tyra’s daughter giving up the financial benefits such that, in effect, she actually lost out on the deal, having worked to secure three deals and ending up with nothing for her time. More importantly, I think that the resolution ensures that something like that won’t recur within the athletic department anytime soon...
That analysis is mostly your opinion. I could just as easily argue that "Vince's" negligence was much more egregious because it involved (a) more money and (b) personal profit.

You also don't know that anything was "rectified". You're trying to write an historical account IN ADVANCE. We'll see what has and hasn't changed a few years from now. We'll see if anyone or anything else "unethical" surfaces. Excuse me if I don't accept your belief about what's to come.
...But, Andre McGee??? Whatever happened to him didn’t rectify anything. The administration that you suggest was without fault thought that to rectify stripper-gate required a post-season ban (throwing the team, especially Lee and Lewis under the bus, showing a total disregard for players who had no involvement in the scandal), plus scholarship reductions. And the NCAA said more was needed, including vacation of victories...
I never said the prior administration was without fault...those are your words.

But you're confusing me... You're saying more should have been done, but you're also saying it shouldn't have been a postseason ban. That's the most serious form of penalty. What would you have preferred be done that isn't grounded in hindsight and that you said you wanted done in 2015?
...And the NCAA said more was needed, including vacation of victories. Following the stripper scandal, beyond the “bad managerial decisions” by Pitino (nice spin!), there was also a lack of appropriate oversight from Jurich. I don’t know about you, but back then I had every expectation that procedures would be put in place to prevent any recurrences. And so, after tremendous work with facilities, coaches, and the move to the ACC, Jurich failed, for whatever reason, in what should have been his clear #1 duty at that time, which was to prevent a recurrence of major NCAA infractions. That’s all. No mas.
Hold on a second... It wasn't just Jurich or even just U of L saying that Pitino had control of things. THE NCAA ALSO CONCLUDED THAT. What did you know that Jurich, his bosses, and the NCAA didn't know? Maybe you're smarter than all of them, and I'm not giving you enough credit!... :cool:
 
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Just because you went to Louisville doesn’t make you a fan. Most of your post about Louisville are negative even when your not talking about TJ. So take you small self and be happy wearing your Blew.
Wrong again. You have no clue of what you’re even talking about. I’ve posted on the main board for years. I’ve been a U of L fan my entire life. Keep babbling, I’m sure you’ll receive a couple “likes”.
 
He claims to be an uber-educated sophisticate who simply moved to the left coast to live and work around people more like him--while evidently having an unlimited amount of time to play on the interweb.

Those guys come and go here everyday... :p
 
That analysis is mostly your opinion. I could just as easily argue that "Vince's" negligence was much more egregious because it involved (a) more money and (b) personal profit.

You also don't know that anything was "rectified". You're trying to write an historical account IN ADVANCE. We'll see what has and hasn't changed a few years from now. We'll see if anyone or anything else "unethical: surfaces. Excuse me if I don't accept your belief about what's to come.

I never said the prior administration was without fault...those are your words.

But you're confusing me... You're saying more should have been done, but you're also saying it shouldn't have been a postseason ban. That's the most serious form of penalty. What would you have preferred be done that isn't grounded in hindsight and that you said you wanted done in 2015?

Hold on a second... It wasn't just Jurich or even just U of L saying that Pitino had control of things. THE NCAA ALSO CONCLUDED THAT. What did you know that Jurich, his bosses, and the NCAA didn't know? Maybe you're smarter than all of them, and I'm not giving you enough credit!... :cool:
Sorry that I wasn’t clearer with regard to the post-season ban. What I objected to there was the timing of when it occurred, two-thirds of the way through the season, when the players had worked hard with every expectation of a post-season opportunity. Whether such a ban is imposed by the NCAA, or self-imposed, it should not apply to a season in-progress, so that they players on the impacted team have an opportunity to transfer out (or not to transfer in if they are grad transfers), otherwise they are truly “thrown under the bus”.

I have also not been arguing whether or not Jurich had any culpability in the stripper scandal, and I have NOT been saying that at all. But, I do think that he bears some responsibility for the FBI scandal, and that’s what I have been driving at for several posts. You say that’s hindsight only, but I think we had every right to expect that Jurich was going to ensure that there were no NCAA compliance issues at all following the stripper scandal, and he failed in that regard.

You constantly show an over-the-top anti-Tyra bias, including mocking him for a simple picture where he expressed support and pride in the baseball team. I have agreed with you that he bore responsibility for the real estate situation, which I still think was resolved satisfactorily, and so for the past several posts, I have basically been interested in whether or not you might similarly agree that Jurich bears some responsibility for the FBI mess. And you have stayed true, refusing to criticize Jurich for the lack of what I think was the oversight that we had a right to expect. Ok then, so we disagree there and that's it.
 
Sorry that I wasn’t clearer with regard to the post-season ban. What I objected to there was the timing of when it occurred, two-thirds of the way through the season, when the players had worked hard with every expectation of a post-season opportunity. Whether such a ban is imposed by the NCAA, or self-imposed, it should not apply to a season in-progress, so that they players on the impacted team have an opportunity to transfer out (or not to transfer in if they are grad transfers), otherwise they are truly “thrown under the bus”.

I have also not been arguing whether or not Jurich had any culpability in the stripper scandal, and I have NOT been saying that at all. But, I do think that he bears some responsibility for the FBI scandal, and that’s what I have been driving at for several posts. You say that’s hindsight only, but I think we had every right to expect that Jurich was going to ensure that there were no NCAA compliance issues at all following the stripper scandal, and he failed in that regard.

You constantly show an over-the-top anti-Tyra bias, including mocking him for a simple picture where he expressed support and pride in the baseball team. I have agreed with you that he bore responsibility for the real estate situation, which I still think was resolved satisfactorily, and so for the past several posts, I have basically been interested in whether or not you might similarly agree that Jurich bears some responsibility for the FBI mess. And you have stayed true, refusing to criticize Jurich for the lack of what I think was the oversight that we had a right to expect. Ok then, so we disagree there and that's it.
Watch out, they’ll call you a cats fan if you speak facts. Their inability to be objective over Jurich’s lack of oversight is fascinating.
 
Sorry that I wasn’t clearer with regard to the post-season ban. What I objected to there was the timing of when it occurred, two-thirds of the way through the season, when the players had worked hard with every expectation of a post-season opportunity. Whether such a ban is imposed by the NCAA, or self-imposed, it should not apply to a season in-progress, so that they players on the impacted team have an opportunity to transfer out (or not to transfer in if they are grad transfers), otherwise they are truly “thrown under the bus”.

I have also not been arguing whether or not Jurich had any culpability in the stripper scandal, and I have NOT been saying that at all. But, I do think that he bears some responsibility for the FBI scandal, and that’s what I have been driving at for several posts. You say that’s hindsight only, but I think we had every right to expect that Jurich was going to ensure that there were no NCAA compliance issues at all following the stripper scandal, and he failed in that regard.

You constantly show an over-the-top anti-Tyra bias, including mocking him for a simple picture where he expressed support and pride in the baseball team. I have agreed with you that he bore responsibility for the real estate situation, which I still think was resolved satisfactorily, and so for the past several posts, I have basically been interested in whether or not you might similarly agree that Jurich bears some responsibility for the FBI mess. And you have stayed true, refusing to criticize Jurich for the lack of what I think was the oversight that we had a right to expect. Ok then, so we disagree there and that's it.
U of L accepted the advice of a former NCAA enforcement staffer (Smrt) in deciding to immediately self impose. They THOUGHT incorrectly that U of L would gain favor with the NCAA. It had nothing to do with collateral damage to other parties whether or not you and I agree with it. But I can't argue that the decision to self impose at that time was capricious and arbitrary. It was more accurately described--in hindsight--as naive and maybe a little self righteous. And there was plenty of remorse about how it affected Lee & Lewis.

Without evidence, I believe that U of L coaches and administrators genuinely believed that pay-for-play managed by shoe companies, agents, advisors, and runners is the way the game is played. AND they believed that the NCAA knew about it and turned a blind eye as long as coaches and boosters didn't get involved. If you wanted players like VJ King and Brian Bowen, it's the game you had to play. As a fan, if you didn't want that type of player, you should have voiced your concern. Many times I asked--and still do--whether these kids are/were L1C4 when they showed up on U of L's radar.

Getting caught was a mistake. Hiring a coach (or coaches) who couldn't stand on the sidelines was a mistake. Not being able to detect these issues was a mistake. If what you claim you want me to admit is covered by those statements, you got your wish.

None of this has anything to do with your fanboy AD who was, however, part of the plan to take out Ramsey and Jurich by whatever means possible...
 
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Without evidence, I believe that U of L coaches and administrators genuinely believed that pay-for-play managed by shoe companies, agents, advisors, and runners is the way the game is played. AND they believed that the NCAA knew about it and turned a blind eye as long as coaches and boosters didn't get involved. If you wanted players like VJ King and Brian Bowen, it's the game you had to play. As a fan, if you didn't want that type of player, you should have voiced your concern. Many times I asked--and still do--whether these kids are/were L1C4 when they showed up on U of L's radar.
.

Agreed, think you are correct at the very least to some extent.


IMO, the concern for the fan becomes not asking who is clean or "L1C4" - the dilemma becomes, "Do I want to follow this sport anymore" or consider "Players deserve their piece of the pie too" to justify the system...because it's pretty obvious there is some system in place behind the scenes that determines player destination that goes well beyond the "L1C4" angle or bleeding Carolina blue.

I think most fans just hope their program doesn't get ensnared by the system or have an SMU football style system going on. I think this is the mentality and it just kind of goes without saying. Or maybe not have so much bravado if you've been caught once or have some program problems of some kind. I guess what I'm saying is don't do coke if you're drinking and driving!

The reality is the system doesn't stop with the top 5, top 10, top 15 rated players. Clearly it's a universal thing that involves roughly any player on the radar in the top 50/100... maybe double that... anybody that would have multiple mainstream offers, some system is in place this is supply/demand. Guys coming off your bench are in on it, not just Zion and Ayton.
 
Without evidence, I believe that U of L coaches and administrators genuinely believed that pay-for-play managed by shoe companies, agents, advisors, and runners is the way the game is played. AND they believed that the NCAA knew about it and turned a blind eye as long as coaches and boosters didn't get involved. If you wanted players like VJ King and Brian Bowen, it's the game you had to play. As a fan, if you didn't want that type of player, you should have voiced your concern. Many times I asked--and still do--whether these kids are/were L1C4 when they showed up on U of L's radar.

Getting caught was a mistake. Hiring a coach (or coaches) who couldn't stand on the sidelines was a mistake. Not being able to detect these issues was a mistake. If what you claim you want me to admit is covered by those statements, you got your wish.

Wait. What?!

Sorry for the delay in responding to this, but I was too stunned by this post. There are so many things to comment on here, but here's just a few:

(1) It’s amazing that this post comes from a guy who boasts about how he deals in “facts”. And you even admitted that you don’t have any evidence. It’s very telling that, after criticizing Tyra for virtually everything under the sun, you now post an opinion as an alibi for the inability of the previous athletic administration to prevent the lack of NCAA compliance that led to the FBI scandal.
(2) Playing what would be ineligible players, as we know all too well, is against NCAA rules, and I would never condone doing so. I don’t care who was in bed with the shoe companies, it was wrong and it’s that simple. Unbelievable that you say I should have voiced my concern beforehand, when I had every right to expect that all of the talk about a “culture of compliance” meant just that, compliance with NCAA rules. It's hard to understand how Jurich failed at this, especially after the stripper scandal, which has been my basic point all along. (By the way, did you raise any concerns about children of athletic department employees taking real estate commissions from coaches before it happened? Otherwise, by your own logic, you have no right to complain now.)
(3) “Getting caught was a mistake.” Thanks for the laugh. In an earlier post, when you said that “In hindsight, Pitino was making bad managerial decisions”, did you mean that what he was guilty of was hiring guys that couldn’t not get caught? I mean, this stuff is really hilarious.
(4) Finally, this alibi for the lack of compliance does not fit with Pitino’s many denials. So, you are saying that Pitino is lying about what happened?

Anyway, thanks for posting the alibi for what happened. It was one of the most amazing and funny posts that I’ve seen here.
 
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