For those ready to blow up football and chuck the season...

[Cardiac Red]

We see eye to eye on a lot, but had we not fumbled, and won that game, it would still leave a lot of question marks about where we are as a program AFAIC.

And how we're "trending" (a little young person lingo thrown in there).

I just think Bobby's got to take charge as HC and not just be the OC.

If he does, I think we're ok.

We have to see some improvement these next 5 games or the natives are going to be VERY restless

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

And would you be hopping on these posts from last week if we had won on Saturday? My guess is "no"...

If/when the trajectory takes a turn for the better I will gladly share posts acknowledging that.

 

[zipp]

I didn't think the team would be very good this year. I also think it's hard to win 8+ games a year and fans have unreasonable expectations.

So you're wrong again.

And way to stick with your statistical evidence strategy, bub. "If we had won Saturday"

You stay in fantasy land with your "what ifs" I'll stick to the reality that I've been spreading all year - the program is trending in the wrong direction.

I'm only pointing out the program is trending south - I'm not even saying he is or isn't capable of fixing it, or will want to stick around to try next year.

Only he knows if he's cut like that.

Well, good for you if you were one of a handful predicting a disappointing season. If you did, link the post; I recall few, if any, saying that.

And I wasn't citing "statistical evidence". It's my you-don't-get-to-predict-everything-else-wrong-end-up-right-about-one-thing-and-say-see? point of view. If I was wrong last week, where was your pushback LAST WEEK? Nothing like handicapping after the fact.

Bub...

 

[zipp]

They are #13 in the country right now, and he's still on this list at #23.

http://coacheshotseat.com/

Again, you go with your day's fantasy talking points, the "if Petrino goes winless"...

Reality, ND has fired 3 coaches since 2000, all for performance.

To suggest fans at ND don't have high expectations is about the dumbest perspective I've seen here, and that's really saying something.

And you don't know where U of L will be next year (which is irrelevant for the ND-vs-U of L comparison anyway...)

It also doesn't matter what people say--or Hillary would be President. The FACT is Kelly went 4-8 last year and still has his job. His best bowl win at ND has been the Music City, and his W/L percentage is an almost identical (to Petrino's) number of 0.67. And that's his record over TWICE the no. of years as Bobby 2.0.

Sorry, that's not a program with higher standards TODAY. It's a program with more history, and you're confusing the two as a lotta people do...

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

Well, good for you if you were one of a handful predicting a disappointing season. If you did, link the post; I recall few, if any, saying that.

And I wasn't citing "statistical evidence". It's my you-don't-get-to-predict-everything-else-wrong-end-up-right-about-one-thing-and-say-see? point of view. If I was wrong last week, where was your pushback LAST WEEK? Nothing like handicapping after the fact.

Bub...

I gave you plenty of push back a month ago in a different thread - your P5 thread. You got so mad you created a parody thread to bring in the GA Tech coach.

I then chose to wait to see how the 2 weeks vs garbage teams would prep the Cards for NC St and beyond. I actually didn't think the NC St game was as bad as others, it was a roadie vs a hungry T25 and Cards were in position to win in the 4th, but they still lost and showed a # of issues in the process.

The BC game is giant step back in a lot of ways.

So it's been a month since the last time I reminded you the program is trending the wrong way. I try not to do this evaluation game by game. The team hasn't looked right since the NC St game in 2016. That's a lot of games.

We are the owners of a very bad defense, and there is fair cause for concern.

That bub stung you more than I anticipated. Bub.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

And you don't know where U of L will be next year (which is irrelevant for the ND-vs-U of L comparison anyway...)

It also doesn't matter what people say--or Hillary would be President. The FACT is Kelly went 4-8 last year and still has his job. His best bowl win at ND has been the Music City, and his W/L percentage is an almost identical (to Petrino's) number of 0.67. And that's his record over TWICE the no. of years as Bobby 2.0.

Sorry, that's not a program with higher standards TODAY. It's a program with more history, and you're confusing the two as a lotta people do...

They have fired 3 different coaches for job performance issues in the last 16 years with a 4th one foot in the grave. You don't fire coaches at that rate if you don't have standards. They paid Charlie Weiss 19 Million dollars to go away. 19 MILLION. Jesus dude, you don't know what you're talking about here.

I'm not confusing anything, I'm just disagreeing with a lot of your nonsense.

 

[zipp]

They have fired 3 different coaches for job performance issues in the last 16 years with a 4th one foot in the grave. You don't fire coaches at that rate if you don't have standards. They paid Charlie Weiss 19 Million dollars to go away. 19 MILLION. Jesus dude, you don't know what you're talking about here.

I'm not confusing anything, I'm just disagreeing with a lot of your nonsense.

You're quoting a lotta irrelevant stuff with respect to NOW...

A buyout is also reflective of how much money someone has to bury a problem or stupid decision. Did Weiss get a big contract bump when he shouldn't have? And you gotta go back 10-20 years for evidence??

I may not always know what I'm talking about, but I know the difference between "present" and "past"--which is where most of ND's lofty standards are. Now it's all about being independent and national for them...

 

[zipp]

I gave you plenty of push back a month ago in a different thread - your P5 thread. You got so mad you created a parody thread to bring in the GA Tech coach.

I then chose to wait to see how the 2 weeks vs garbage teams would prep the Cards for NC St and beyond. I actually didn't think the NC St game was as bad as others, it was a roadie vs a hungry T25 and Cards were in position to win in the 4th, but they still lost and showed a # of issues in the process.

The BC game is giant step back in a lot of ways.

So it's been a month since the last time I reminded you the program is trending the wrong way. I try not to do this evaluation game by game. The team hasn't looked right since the NC St game in 2016. That's a lot of games.

We are the owners of a very bad defense, and there is fair cause for concern.

That bub stung you more than I anticipated. Bub.

The bub thing is hilarious. On the order of "dude"... Says "pay attention to what I just said" or "will say" as if I you're concerned I may not otherwise. When someone says it to me, I usually return it mockingly (which I probably shouldn't do, but that's 'zipp'...)

If you're genuinely concerned about "trajectory", were you on people's cases who were wanting Grantham fired last year? Again, I don't recall a lotta those keep-Todd people. Because that's what's at the root of this. If you're as clairvoyant as you wanna believe, you knew that Petrino's D coordinators have always been an issue. You don't get rid of one unless you know it's the right thing to do.

And that's while keeping in mind that it's Petrino who's gonna go out and find ANOTHER replacement. But he can fall back on the best AD in the business to help him. Oops!

It's fine to say "trajectory", but what are you gonna do about it? What are you gonna recommend? Are you just venting your displeasure, or are things being done NOW that you disagree with? What's your solution--advise Petrino to hire his sixth D coordinator in his eight years here by the same process? Yeah, that sure appears to be working well.

And taking a step back, are you as concerned with Florida State's "trajectory? They're 7-5 the last two years in the ACC vs Louisville's 8-4, and they're 2-2 this year with a roster of better players. Should Jimbo be on the hot seat? That national championship was awhile back. Maybe Jimbo needs a "bub" wake-up call...

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

It's fine to say "trajectory", but what are you gonna do about it?

And taking a step back, are you as concerned with Florida State's "trajectory? They're 7-5 the last two years in the ACC vs Louisville's 8-4, and they're 2-2 this year with a roster of better players. Should Jimbo be on the hot seat? That national championship was awhile back. Maybe Jimbo needs a "bub" wake-up call...

When I introduced the trajectory theory a month ago you were NOT fine with it, so I applaud you for finally at the very least, considering things are going the wrong way instead of what you were doing a month ago.

The question isn't what I'm going to do about it - the question is what is Petrino going to do about it. Will the slide continue? Does he have a plan to fix the problems? What are the plans? Can the season be saved? Does a loss to BC give him a wake up call to shake things up? Do the players have the required pride to give a better effort moving forward?

What piece(s) does the team have in place to suggest success in the post Lamar Jackson era? That's my biggest question for you.

Jimbo's resume is just more accomplished than Bobby Petrino's resume for them to face the same kind of scrutiny, and is a poor choice for comparison for reasons too obvious to list.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

You're quoting a lotta irrelevant stuff with respect to NOW...

A buyout is also reflective of how much money someone has to bury a problem or stupid decision. Did Weiss get a big contract bump when he shouldn't have? And you gotta go back 10-20 years for evidence??

I may not always know what I'm talking about, but I know the difference between "present" and "past"--which is where most of ND's lofty standards are. Now it's all about being independent and national for them...

Weiss was the previous coach and removed 7 years ago, not 10-20 years ago.

You have to apply the variable of time and coaches canned to get a feel for how seriously a program desires to win - and the Irish have shown multiple examples this era of pulling the plug.

You seem to cherry pick the application of the variable of time to fit your agenda.

When discussing ND you want to talk about right now. 15 Million Dollar Buy-Out I believe, after shelling out 19 Million to the previous coach not long ago. Not easy decisions. The guy did take them to a title game not long ago also.

When discussing Bobby Petrino you want to review an extended time frame to analyze his body of work. Since you are so in tune with the right NOW - Bobby Petrino sucks. NOW.

I'm not saying I feel that way - that's the way YOU feel. Cause it's about NOW.

 

[Strongtino]

People keep talking about the state of the program like we're just on a little 2-3 game skid. This has been going on for nearly a year now and the team has the same problems we have right now since day 1, unprepared, sloppy, no discipline. How many games in his 4 years here has UL came out, look prepared, executed and decisively won the game against P5 competition? Thats a serious question too. 4 maybe 5 times?

This idea that everything was going great and UL has just drifted off into this minor skid is a false narrative. The EXACT problems UL faced in 2014 are the same ones we face now the only difference is we don't have Charlie Strong's players here to help put a band aid on the problems.

My God....Can you actually imagine the train wreck this football program would be in right now if we didn't have literally one of the most gifted college football players of the last 25 years?

 

[zipp]

Weiss was the previous coach and removed 7 years ago, not 10-20 years ago.

You have to apply the variable of time and coaches canned to get a feel for how seriously a program desires to win - and the Irish have shown multiple examples this era of pulling the plug.

You seem to cherry pick the application of the variable of time to fit your agenda.

When discussing ND you want to talk about right now. 15 Million Dollar Buy-Out I believe, after shelling out 19 Million to the previous coach not long ago. Not easy decisions. The guy did take them to a title game not long ago also.

When discussing Bobby Petrino you want to review an extended time frame to analyze his body of work. Since you are so in tune with the right NOW - Bobby Petrino sucks. NOW.

I'm not saying I feel that way - that's the way YOU feel. Cause it's about NOW.

When I introduced the trajectory theory a month ago you were NOT fine with it, so I applaud you for finally at the very least, considering things are going the wrong way instead of what you were doing a month ago.

The question isn't what I'm going to do about it - the question is what is Petrino going to do about it. Will the slide continue? Does he have a plan to fix the problems? What are the plans? Can the season be saved? Does a loss to BC give him a wake up call to shake things up? Do the players have the required pride to give a better effort moving forward?

What piece(s) does the team have in place to suggest success in the post Lamar Jackson era? That's my biggest question for you.

Jimbo's resume is just more accomplished than Bobby Petrino's resume for them to face the same kind of scrutiny, and is a poor choice for comparison for reasons too obvious to list.

I'm not embracing your "trajectory" argument...like so many, I'm just willing to debate it.

Petrino 2.0 is the last four years. Weis coached at ND from 2005-2009. That's 8-12 years ago, which is more than 1-4. If you don't understand that's different, math ain't your strong suit. You're also quoting info for ND as far back as 16 years IIRC, which is even LONGER compared to Bobby 2.0.

(BTW, when I quote Bobby's record over four years, I compare it to everyone's in the P5 conferences...)

And your argument is easily used against you... ND keeps going back, evidently, and repeating the same mistakes. I'm not sure if it's the same people at the top, but regardless, their people and their system allow for underperformance. How do I know? THAT'S WHAT THEY KEEP DELIVERING.

You pose questions for the U of L program, but I don't see any ideas. I opened that door...this is your opportunity.

As far as FSU, they won the national championship in 2013. That same season, U of L won the Russell Athletic Bowl. From my vantage point, that looks like a lot steeper "trajectory" down for FSU than it does U of L.

You keep going back to history ("Jimbo's resume") when that argument is convenient for you, but you wanna talk about "trajectory"--which is real time direction up/down--when it's not. I'm good with either context if you wanna stick with one and not flip-flop...

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

. Weis coached at ND from 2005-2009. That's 8-12 years ago, which is more than 1-4. If you don't understand that's different, math ain't your strong suit.
..

Jesus dude programs don't fire coaches every year. A program that is dedicated to winning fires coaches frequently over time - which is something ND has done.

They seat 80k they have arguably the largest following of any fan base in the country - the program is under a major microscope and there is complete dedication to winning.

This is not a debate this is you going full blown moron on the topic of ND football.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

As far as FSU, they won the national championship in 2013. That same season, U of L won the Russell Athletic Bowl. From my vantage point, that looks like a lot steeper "trajectory" down for FSU than it does U of L.

.

Your vantage point is laughable. Guys that win titles get a pass for a bad season when they lose their QB week one.

Please tell me somebody has hi-jacked your password and login information. You can't be this bad.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

And your argument is easily used against you...
..

My bottom line argument for you. 2 points.

1) UofL football is trending the wrong way, has been trending that direction for quite some time- can't be denied. Could turn very quickly the other direction, but I admit this - I'm losing confidence in the program at this time. I want to return after the next game and celebrate a win. I'm not that into myself to hope for more of the same shit show we've been seeing lately.

2) You need to stop posting about ND football you're embarrassing yourself.

 

[zipp]

Jesus dude programs don't fire coaches every year. A program that is dedicated to winning fires coaches frequently over time - which is something ND has done.

They seat 80k they have arguably the largest following of any fan base in the country - the program is under a major microscope and there is complete dedication to winning.

This is not a debate this is you going full blown moron on the topic of ND football.

Personal insults now and The Almighty ain't gonna help your arguments...

Nebraska football attendance is Top 10 nationally...is that now the crux for your argument of football performance? How big is their alumni base? You're reaching in addition to throwing insults. Relax.

 

[zipp]

Your vantage point is laughable. Guys that win titles get a pass for a bad season when they lose their QB week one.

Please tell me somebody has hi-jacked your password and login information. You can't be this bad.

Oh, NOW we're going back to history and "passes"? How many "passes" are used to counter "trajectory"? And a bad QB is evidently more significant than a bad D coordinator.

Please link me a copy of hop's football rules so I can familiarize myself. Or at least get a good laugh...

 

[zipp]

My bottom line argument for you. 2 points.

1) UofL football is trending the wrong way, has been trending that direction for quite some time- can't be denied. Could turn very quickly the other direction, but I admit this - I'm losing confidence in the program at this time. I want to return after the next game and celebrate a win. I'm not that into myself to hope for more of the same shit show we've been seeing lately.

2) You need to stop posting about ND football you're embarrassing yourself.

And thanks for the advice. The only concern I have is "thread embarrassment" may be a subject you know firsthand...

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

And thanks for the advice. The only concern I have is "thread embarrassment" may be a subject you know firsthand...

From reading your posts.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

Personal insults now and The Almighty ain't gonna help your arguments...

Nebraska football attendance is Top 10 nationally...is that now the crux for your argument of football performance? How big is their alumni base? You're reaching in addition to throwing insults. Relax.

Another bizarre comparison again yielding the result that you do not know what you are talking about.

Nebraska fired Solich, a coach after he won 75% of his games. He went 9-3 his final year. 42-9 his first 4 years. 58-19 in his six years total. Coach of the year twice in his league.

So yes, Top 10 National Attendance is a pretty good barometer to use to identify jobs that place a lot of pressure on their coaches to win.

Amazing.

I'm not reaching. I'm destroying you. Name calling aside.

 

[zipp]

Another bizarre comparison again yielding the result that you do not know what you are talking about.

Nebraska fired Solich, a coach after he won 75% of his games. He went 9-3 his final year. 42-9 his first 4 years. 58-19 in his six years total. Coach of the year twice in his league.

So yes, Top 10 National Attendance is a pretty good barometer to use to identify jobs that place a lot of pressure on their coaches to win.

Amazing.

I'm not reaching. I'm destroying you. Name calling aside.

The last CFP/NY6/BCS game Nebraska played in? 16 years ago. But that attendance....WOW!

Keep "destroying" me, I need more ammo...

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

Oh, NOW we're going back to history and "passes"? How many "passes" are used to counter "trajectory"? And a bad QB is evidently more significant than a bad D coordinator.

Please link me a copy of hop's football rules so I can familiarize myself. Or at least get a good laugh...

Winning a title and making the playoff the following year matters. A lot.

So there's one rule for you to go ahead and write down on your notebook.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

The last CFP/NY6/BCS game Nebraska played in? 16 years ago. But that attendance....WOW!

Keep "destroying" me, I need more ammo...

People don't always get what they want. The conversation was not about results - the conversation was about pressure fans apply on programs to win.

The firing of Solich is an obvious example of my point.

You have no point. You're just dancing from one talking point to another, once you get slapped.

Back to moving goal posts when you're getting whipped I see.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

Nebraska football attendance is Top 10 nationally...is that now the crux for your argument of football performance? .

Again. As stated above - the conversation is not about the results of winning, it's not about "performance" - you're moving the goal posts.

The argument is about programs placing high pressure on coaches to win.

So quit moving the goal posts.

You made a baffling claim that nobody thinks but you saying fans of UofL would be tougher on Brohm than fans at ND would be on Brohm if he struggled. It's an asinine position to take, but you did it. Stunning.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

Brohm's chances of being successful with ND fans are greater than the same at U of L. Their bar currently is appreciably lower...

Says nobody. But you.

 

[zipp]

Says nobody. But you.

Two of us... Me and the results.

 

[zipp]

Again. As stated above - the conversation is not about the results of winning, it's not about "performance" - you're moving the goal posts.

The argument is about programs placing high pressure on coaches to win.

So quit moving the goal posts.

You made a baffling claim that nobody thinks but you saying fans of UofL would be tougher on Brohm than fans at ND would be on Brohm if he struggled. It's an asinine position to take, but you did it. Stunning.

You really keep bringing up examples and evidence that support my argument...

First it was ND... If ND's standards are so high, why have they been average or worse the last two decades? Why does Brian Kelly keep his job after eight years?

Now it's Nebraska... How do they average 80 thousand fans when they can barely compete in the Big Ten and almost never matter in the postseason?

Because IT'S OK TO BE AVERAGE for those schools now and their fans. That's the only reasonable explanation without touting ancient history that means nothing. They perpetuate mediocrity, they're fat and happy, the checks are rolling in.

And none of that signifies performance except maybe to you...

 

[zipp]

People don't always get what they want. The conversation was not about results - the conversation was about pressure fans apply on programs to win.

The firing of Solich is an obvious example of my point.

You have no point. You're just dancing from one talking point to another, once you get slapped.

Back to moving goal posts when you're getting whipped I see.

Results follow expectations. If anyone should realize that, it's a U of L fan. Did our rise to success happen by accident? Has Jurich ever said it's OK to just compete? Please link those references for me.

Not to mention, you have the opposite situation of LPT close by.

"Slapped" and "whipped"? Dream on, and keep those examples coming...

 

[zipp]

Winning a title and making the playoff the following year matters. A lot.

So there's one rule for you to go ahead and write down on your notebook.

Changing the argument.

"Trajectory" is in real time. Own it...

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

Changing the argument.

"Trajectory" is in real time. Own it...

Says the goal post mover.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

Results follow expectations. If anyone should realize that, it's a U of L fan. Did our rise to success happen by accident? Has Jurich ever said it's OK to just compete? Please link those references for me.

Not to mention, you have the opposite situation of LPT close by.

"Slapped" and "whipped"? Dream on, and keep those examples coming...

Quit moving goal posts.

The argument is about where there is more pressure to win. Everything else you are talking about is a deflection.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

You really keep bringing up examples and evidence that support my argument...

First it was ND... If ND's standards are so high, why have they been average or worse the last two decades? Why does Brian Kelly keep his job after eight years?

Now it's Nebraska... How do they average 80 thousand fans when they can barely compete in the Big Ten and almost never matter in the postseason?

Because IT'S OK TO BE AVERAGE for those schools now and their fans. That's the only reasonable explanation without touting ancient history that means nothing. They perpetuate mediocrity, they're fat and happy, the checks are rolling in.

And none of that signifies performance except maybe to you...

.
One team fires a guy after a 9 win season - that in itself is the argument.

You don't get it.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

Two of us... Me and the results.

Wrong.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

Zipp, I just simply disagree with several of your points. First off petrino 2.0’s winning % is .667 and Kelly’s is .663 at ND - both with comparable schedules though I’d say ND’s is more difficult year in and year out.

Kelly kept his job after last year’s crap fest at least in part to the administration cringing at buying out another coach with all of the money that ND has shelled this century. Make no mistake though - as you’ve alluded to as well - if he doesn’t have a really good year in 2017 - he’s gone.

ND’s fans expect a NY6 bowl every year and honestly feel that they should be in the playoff talk every year as well. To compare the respective fan bases in terms of expectations is just silly. Brohm’s chances are better here because he has the relationship already with our fan base and therefore a longer lease.

All of this is spot on.

 

[Rollem Cards]

Why don’t you two meet at the flagpole at three o’clsock and settle this?

 

[Cue Card]

Looks like the football team is making the decision to blow itself up. No need for any fan to be concerned about it at this point.

 

[zipp]

Wrong.

Because you say so?

 

[zipp]

Quit moving goal posts.

The argument is about where there is more pressure to win. Everything else you are talking about is a deflection.

WTH are expectations without "pressure to win"? You're playing with words, not a good look...

 

[zipp]

Says the goal post mover.

Says the guy jumping between past and present for his arguments...

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

Why don’t you two meet at the flagpole at three o’clsock and settle this?

I'm not a fighter, I'm a lover.