Explanation for decline

[2330859]

There is so much blame and criticism of Dan and his staff by fans, some of which I have contributed to as well. Without having any evidence to support my suspicion; it may be as simple as UL having insufficient financial support to participate in the Portal. The common denominator in the decline in UL Baseball seems to be largely the Covid interruption, followed by NIL and the Transfer Portal.

Some believe that Dan has been warm at best to the Portal, but I wonder if it’s more about not having the funds to attract the level of talent through NIL and Portal to compete with the ACC and SEC schools who appear to covet college baseball more than UL?

 

[nccardfan]

Mississippi St and UK are just two examples of teams where the coach completely cleaned house and rebuilt their rosters through the portal. But you're saying U of L can't do the same because of NIL?

I think it was a decision made by Coach Mac not to rely heavily on the portal and stay loyal to his players. Was that wrong just because it didn't seem to work out?

 

[Mayoman]

Maybe Dan should entertain the idea of persuading some of those former players in MLB to pony up some $$$ to help out their alma mater with the NIL program for baseball. You know a little payback and such as a TY to Dan and the Cardinals.

 

[Bardman]

Probably a bit of both. The $EC schools fill up their stadiums (as a rule) and therefore have MUCH greater support for their bb teams. They generate more revenue and create more buzz. UofL is poorly supported.

 

[CardX]

This year can be attributed to pitching, 1,000%. I think our guys walked 14 batters yesterday, and over 30 for the series. That’s beyond bad.

 

[Guardman]

Cards can't compete w NIL $$$$$$$$$$ against SEC and B1G. Lost Cause.

 

[2330859]

Can is not the same as doing; Mayoman’s suggestion is the best possibility, hopefully they start to step up along with our fans.

 

[Bardman]

Cards can compete w NIL $$$$$$$$$$ against SEC and B1G. Lost Cause.

I just don’t see this. If fans filled out JP stadium to 85-95% cap just about every game then maybe NIL $ would be more available to baseball. Otherwise, I don’t buy it. NIL is getting used for fb and mbb. As those two consistently get their stadiums filled up and really establish results then baseball and wbb could get more of the pie. Just my opinion.

 

[earsky]

We've had the discussion about possible sources for NIL moolah. Certainly the past players that benefited from going through the system over here at Patterson seem to be the most likely options. I hate that Mac has to be the guy initiating those conversations though. Those guys should be happy to help imo. We also talked about Slugger,but Heird and Mac would need to make that pitch(no pun).

What I worry about is losing not only Rose and Kilen but also the Sophomores and Freshmen that have not been in the lineup for a minute while the same old guys that haven't performed in the past continue to not get wins. There's legitimately a real lack of leadership and cohesion in the clubhouse about what's important-winning Championships.

 

[CardX]

So it sounds like the problem is everything.

NIL
Pitching
Attendance
Revenue
Leadership
Portal
Facilities
Coaching
Cohesion

Plus, I'll add the entire roster is essentially the same player. Can run, decent but not great power, good hitters, above average fielders, can play multiple positions, but none are MLB caliber, in my mind. There isn't one player with double digit home runs. It wasn't that long ago when we had Ellis and McKay combine for almost 40 in 2017, a CWS team. We need bombers. None of our guys scare anyone at the plate. UNC scared the shit out of our pitchers, by comparison.

I don't have the answers. Something needs to be done. Pitching is awful. I'd start there. Then go get some ballers who can swing for the fences. #1 UT has 131 home runs. The Cards have 74. Think about that. #7 Carolina who just lit us up for what, 15 home runs in 3 games, has 96 goners.

Can't help but think it's complete rebuild time.

 

[rh62531]

NIL funding would get a boost for baseball if Dan would ask. There are many fans that willing. You can't sit on your hands!! The world changes, and especially from Covid on. Coaches cannot stay the same as they were 5, 10, 20 years.

 

[2330859]

Just my opinion, but given everything else being the same (Coaching & Facilities); having an abundance of money allows the ability to obtain Pitching via NIL, and the Portal. If Dan had the money to acquire the talent, the Cards would attract the Attendance, and would result in increased Revenue.

That leaves Leadership and Cohesiveness, something money cannot buy, but I still believe that Dan could inspire both with or without money.

NIL
Pitching
Attendance
Revenue
Leadership
Portal
Facilities
Coaching
Cohesion

 

[73Card]

This year the D1 baseball started in mid January. UL's first home game was mid February. Schools located in the south have traditionally dominated the college baseball world series, exception Oregon State has won a couple. Ohio State with it's unlimited NIL has not been a player, same with Michigan.
Folks are not going to attend ball games in February, March. and with exceptions early May. That's true with all programs not located in the south.
That being said; I don't think increased attendance later in the year really moves the needle much, reference revenue.
Just spitballing.

 

[earsky]

Good conversation and one that obviously needed to happen. I do think that Miller and Mac might have different takes on who's gonna see the field the most. That's interesting to me as there are several veteran pitchers that have been relegated to situational roles and only Beard on the fielder's same thing. I think Mac has a strong belief that the further guys are in his system the better they'll get. It hasn't worked out that way with several guys since 2019.

 

[CardsFirst]

I just don’t see this. If fans filled out JP stadium to 85-95% cap just about every game then maybe NIL $ would be more available to baseball. Otherwise, I don’t buy it. NIL is getting used for fb and mbb. As those two consistently get their stadiums filled up and really establish results then baseball and wbb could get more of the pie. Just my opinion.

I think WBB gets better NIL support. WBB has the #6 best class right now.

 

[Bardman]

I think WBB gets better NIL support. WBB has the #6 best class right now.

Probably better than baseball. They also put a lot of fans in seats. More ‘active’ fans equals more money.

 

[TheRealVille]

We need to realize that baseball is just not as popular a sport, even here in Louisville. Despite the bat factory and the minor league teams, college baseball in Louisville even during the glory days, wasn't as popular as women's hoops.

Many fans look at baseball like Volleyball and soccer. We want them to win because we're Louisville fans, but losing didn't upset us as much as basketball and football.

For me, growing up around baseball, it wasn't like that. However, most of my fellow Cards friends and family don't put much effort in following baseball.

MLB is far behind the God awful NBA and the NFL. Baseball takes a lot more work growing up playing it. There were little leagues everywhere when I was kid. Not so much today. It's not fast enough.

This is really why MLB has quickened the game a few years ago.

But it's true the southern schools will always have the better attendance. Its not 35 degrees in February.

 

[nccardfan]

We need to realize that baseball is just not as popular a sport, even here in Louisville. Despite the bat factory and the minor league teams, college baseball in Louisville even during the glory days, wasn't as popular as women's hoops.

Many fans look at baseball like Volleyball and soccer. We want them to win because we're Louisville fans, but losing didn't upset us as much as basketball and football.

For me, growing up around baseball, it wasn't like that. However, most of my fellow Cards friends and family don't put much effort in following baseball.

MLB is far behind the God awful NBA and the NFL. Baseball takes a lot more work growing up playing it. There were little leagues everywhere when I was kid. Not so much today. It's not fast enough.

This is really why MLB has quickened the game a few years ago.

But it's true the southern schools will always have the better attendance. Its not 35 degrees in February.

Totally disagree. Go to a Reds baseball game on Saturday/Sunday. 50,000 on a really nice Saturday. They average 26,000 but when you consider all the games they play during the week from May to September that's pretty good. The thing about baseball is you can take your whole family, have great food and drink, don't have to watch every single play, have conversations, etc. You don't have to be engaged the entire time.

 

[TheRealVille]

Totally disagree. Go to a Reds baseball game on Saturday/Sunday. 50,000 on a really nice Saturday. They average 26,000 but when you consider all the games they play during the week from May to September that's pretty good. The thing about baseball is you can take your whole family, have great food and drink, don't have to watch every single play, have conversations, etc. You don't have to be engaged the entire time.

That's Cincinnati. I'm talking about here in Louisville. I know the Reds have been considered Louisville's local team even though it's been my experience thats not really the case with baseball fans.

Growing up most of my friends and family were not Reds fans. Many were Cardinals fans. When the Big Red machine was rolling in the 70's the Reds were popular here in Louisville. Not so much since.

Cincinnati is a big baseball city, having the oldest franchise so baseball is part of that city. Louisville is not and that's what I was referring to.

I agree going to the park is great but the fact is, attendance has been down for years now. Just too darn expensive.

 

[nccardfan]

That's Cincinnati. I'm talking about here in Louisville. I know the Reds have been considered Louisville's local team even though it's been my experience thats not really the case with baseball fans.

Growing up most of my friends and family were not Reds fans. Many were Cardinals fans. When the Big Red machine was rolling in the 70's the Reds were popular here in Louisville. Not so much since.

Cincinnati is a big baseball city, having the oldest franchise so baseball is part of that city. Louisville is not and that's what I was referring to.

I agree going to the park is great but the fact is, attendance has been down for years now. Just too darn expensive.

You said baseball. I just mentioned Cincinnati because I just went to a game there. Look across major league baseball. Yeah there are some dogs but try going to a Braves game. Today the Orioles had 12,000 kids in attendance.

 

[2330859]

Realville:

The Big Red Machine era provided me with as much enjoyment of baseball as anything I experienced since my own playing days. I do recall listening to Ed Kallay calling the Louisville Colonels on the radio, and I followed the Milwaukee and St Louis programs as the ex-Colonels made their way up to the majors, but nothing matched my enthusiasm for the Reds.

Back to UL Baseball ……. I expect one of two things to happen between the end of this college season and 2025. Either Dan resigns, or he finds some pitching talent via the portal. Anyone who knows Dan, understands that his competitive nature will not allow him to endure this level of performance for another year.

 

[TheRealVille]

You said baseball. I just mentioned Cincinnati because I just went to a game there. Look across major league baseball. Yeah there are some dogs but try going to a Braves game. Today the Orioles had 12,000 kids in attendance.

Of course there's places that are baseball strong like Boston, Atlanta and New York, but the sport overall is way behind the other two sports, basketball and football. Baseball is a great game, but it's only really great for those who have followed it for a while.

For me as a kid in the 1970's and early 80's, it was the stats that really interested me. I love keeping stats of the players each Sunday paper. I loved playing, I loved batting practice and I loved how it was a deliberate game. Plenty of time on the field to think about your game.

3330859

Sorry buddy, but I never liked the Reds. I didn't hate them like I hated the Yankees or Dodgers. My first little league team was the A's in 1976 and I was a A's fan until 1992. The supetstation, WTBS, was one of the first cable channels we had and the Braves were my 2nd favorite team until that magical worst to first in 1991 turned me into a full blown Braves fan.

I've mostly followed collegiate sports in my life and my only favorite pro team has always been baseball.

 

[73Card]

I remember watching Pete Rose take out Ray Fosse to win the 1970 All Star Game. Back when the All Star Game meant something. No live interviews of players - managers during the game bs. FOX and the other networks destroyed MLB. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the rules prior to the DH and later changes.

 

[2330859]

It’s OK RealVille; everyone had their own favorite baseball teams. I loved those decades following professional sports before I arrived to where I am today …… I have no interest in MLB, NBA and limited interest in NFL.

 

[nccardfan]

It’s OK RealVille; everyone had their own favorite baseball teams. I loved those decades following professional sports before I arrived to where I am today …… I have no interest in MLB, NBA and limited interest in NFL.

Then maybe stick to opinions of those sports you do have interest in.

 

[TheRealVille]

I remember watching Pete Rose take out Ray Fosse to win the 1970 All Star Game. Back when the All Star Game meant something. No live interviews of players - managers during the game bs. FOX and the other networks destroyed MLB. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the rules prior to the DH and later changes.

View embedded media

Nolan Ryan once threw 235 pitches in a 13 inning game. Just think how ridiculous that would be today.

The game truly changed with free agency and players started making millions a year. It was bound to happen, like it did in the NFL and NBA. It's all about entertainment today and not the love of the game.