Danny Manning Buyout - No freaking way...

[zipp]

How does this guy merit a $15 million buyout? LINK

I've been told many, many, many times that there's no way a coach who's not in high demand should have a huge buyout in his contract.

Of course, I guess I need to consider who's been telling me that...

 

[Knucklehank1]

Why does this guy merit having his 15 million buyout paid out?

I've been told many, many, many times that there's no way that an AD should pay out a full buyout even if contractually obligated.

Of course I guess I need to consider who’s been telling me that...‍

 

[gocards1987]

How does this guy merit a $15 million buyout? LINK

I've been told many, many, many times that there's no way a coach who's not in high demand should have a huge buyout in his contract.

Of course, I guess I need to consider who's been telling me that...

You actually asked a very good question. Wake gave Manning an extension after going 13-19, 11-20, and 19-14. Does making 1 ncaa tournament play-in game warrant you getting an extension that means 3 years later you still have a 15 million dollar buyout. The only reason Manning lasted so long at Wake was because they could not afford to fire him. The were still considering keeping him because of the large buyout. Whoever made that contract F'ed up, there is on reason you should give a coach an extension after mediocre results that puts you in a place that you have to keep them just because you can't afford to fire them. The same question that goes for Petrino goes for Manning, why are you competing against yourself for them?

 

[cocoa]

Let's just say Bobby Petrino, had a little better Resume then Danny!! A Lot More Winning, Also a Heisman Trophy Winner, and A He-- of a lot more Success at UL, then Danny Manning, ever even dreamed about at Wake! End of Comparison !! If UL screwed up?? Then Wake screwed up with Danny Manning XXX x 10 !! Kinda put things in perspective right?? Just askin??

 

[zipp]

Of course Petrino had a better resume.

But the "Vince" apologists wanna lecture there's no way that "Vince" should have had his hands tied with Petrino's buyout. No, "Vince" should have never PAID $14 million to get rid of Petrino. Buyouts of that scale are everywhere--regardless of the coach.

It's a classic dodge tactic when you don't wanna put the responsibility where it belongs...

 

[Knucklehank1]

Of course Petrino had a better resume.

But the "Vince" apologists wanna lecture there's no way that "Vince" should have had his hands tied with Petrino's buyout. No, "Vince" should have never PAID $14 million to get rid of Petrino. Buyouts of that scale are everywhere--regardless of the coach.

It's a classic dodge tactic when you don't wanna put the responsibility where it belongs...

Why is Wake Forest paying this buyout?

 

[Knucklehank1]

Let's just say Bobby Petrino, had a little better Resume then Danny!! A Lot More Winning, Also a Heisman Trophy Winner, and A He-- of a lot more Success at UL, then Danny Manning, ever even dreamed about at Wake! End of Comparison !! If UL screwed up?? Then Wake screwed up with Danny Manning XXX x 10 !! Kinda put things in perspective right?? Just askin??

UofL did screw up. No ifs about it. Petrino’s resume really opened some impressive doors. Sheesh.

 

[Sawyer]

Why is Wake Forest paying this buyout?

Because they can.

 

[zipp]

Why is Wake Forest paying this buyout?

Better ask. Irrespective of the answer, it was because someone decided to...

 

[chevelle99]

Has any University in recent memory reneged on or started a legal battle on a coach buyout? I can't think of any. That includes our own legal battle with coach Pitino. That lawsuit was over the terms of firing not a buyout.

Seems like once a university does that their pool of potential replacements would shrink dramatically.

 

[ShortCreek]

Of course Petrino had a better resume.

But the "Vince" apologists wanna lecture there's no way that "Vince" should have had his hands tied with Petrino's buyout. No, "Vince" should have never PAID $14 million to get rid of Petrino. Buyouts of that scale are everywhere--regardless of the coach.

It's a classic dodge tactic when you don't wanna put the responsibility where it belongs...

The guy who you kneel down and pray to each night gave him the contract, spare me.

 

[Cardinal Cash]

Wake is silly for making this contract. Even dumber than what we did with Bobby. I remember being 50/50 on Bobby’s contract extension because it was a little early in the game after just 3 years. However, the question is do you really want to compare the AD of Wake with Tom @zipp ? Not exactly the best company.

 

[Cue Card]

Of course Petrino had a better resume.

But the "Vince" apologists wanna lecture there's no way that "Vince" should have had his hands tied with Petrino's buyout. No, "Vince" should have never PAID $14 million to get rid of Petrino. Buyouts of that scale are everywhere--regardless of the coach.

It's a classic dodge tactic when you don't wanna put the responsibility where it belongs...

Who put that 14 million dollar buyout in Petrino's contract to start with? Just asking for a friend.

 

[zipp]

Has any University in recent memory reneged on or started a legal battle on a coach buyout? I can't think of any. That includes our own legal battle with coach Pitino. That lawsuit was over the terms of firing not a buyout...

You just answered your own question.

If/when the decision is made to not pay a buyout, it's always going to be grounded in the terms of the contract and the person's performance. The payer takes the opening position that the payee did not perform.

Same thing happened with Jurich before U of L caved...

 

[zipp]

The guy who you kneel down and pray to each night gave him the contract, spare me.

That's not the narrative. The story is (was) that no coach like Petrino--or Manning--get these buyouts. Obviously, it's not true...

 

[zipp]

Wake is silly for making this contract. Even dumber than what we did with Bobby. I remember being 50/50 on Bobby’s contract extension because it was a little early in the game after just 3 years. However, the question is do you really want to compare the AD of Wake with Tom @zipp ? Not exactly the best company.

Again, that's not the narrative. Contract terms and what coaches are paid are what the MARKET demands, not what a school decides.

And I don't recall you making a lotta noise when Petrino was extended. But you were in good company--no one did...

 

[zipp]

Who put that 14 million dollar buyout in Petrino's contract to start with? Just asking for a friend.

Not the guy who in the span of 24 hours decided there were no grounds not to pay it.

Tell your friend to call me...

 

[Cardinal Cash]

Again, that's not the narrative. Contract terms and what coaches are paid are what the MARKET demands, not what a school decides.

And I don't recall you making a lotta noise when Petrino was extended. But you were in good company--no one did...

Like I said, I was 50/50. I think it was a little early, but because we just won a Heisman and had a shot at the playoff for half of the season, it wasn’t totally unreasonable.

The argument everyone is making about Bobby (and that I am making about Manning) is that the market didn’t dictate large buyouts because those particular coaches weren’t in high demand (can’t recall on Bobby, but no one was coming after Manning).

Edit: come to think of it I hadn’t heard Bobby’s name floated out there to any schools at the time either.

So just because your playing FBS football or D1 basketball, doesn’t mean you have to pay your coach Alabama football or Duke basketball money. It all depends on the coach and how pursued they are by other schools. See Walz and McDonnell for example. They get paid at the highest level because a new school comes after them every year.

 

[jwphelps]

How does this guy merit a $15 million buyout? LINK

I've been told many, many, many times that there's no way a coach who's not in high demand should have a huge buyout in his contract.

Of course, I guess I need to consider who's been telling me that...

The school signed the contract that is all it takes.

 

[Cue Card]

Not the guy who in the span of 24 hours decided there were no grounds not to pay it.

Tell your friend to call me...

My friend has called you, several times. I would prefer not to say exactly what it was that he called you though. That is between you and my friend. Really none of my business.

Vince Tyra is the Athletic Director now and Tom Jurich is not walking back thru that door. We can all just accept that as fact, or whine about it while twisting in the wind. We all have a choice. AMERICA! Ain't it grand?

 

[zipp]

Appears that "Vince" should have talked to Wake Forest before making his 24-hour decision...

Wake Forest believes it owes Danny Manning a substantially reduced buyout

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

Zipp will be interesting to see what the "criteria failed to be met" actually is/was for Manning.

This will definitely be something interesting to follow - keep us posted.

 

[zipp]

Zipp will be interesting to see what the "criteria failed to be met" actually is/was for Manning.

This will definitely be something interesting to follow - keep us posted.

I'm not that sure how close I'm going to be following it because my point has already been made....

For about six weeks now apparently, a negotiation process has been underway between Wake, Manning, and his attorney that I was told couldn't or wouldn't ever occur.

A contract with a big buyout is being challenged by the payer on grounds that the payee failed to perform.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

A contract with a big buyout is being challenged by the payer on grounds that the payee failed to perform.

​

The reason for the challenge hasn't been confirmed.

I never had a dog in the fight I actually think BP warranted a substantial buy-out he had the program close to the playoffs and coached Lamar to a Heisman. If BP/UofL could have "kept it going" a few more years a big program would ignore the past and make an offer. Maybe!

What is funny, slightly off topic, I asked you what the worst case scenario for UofL athletics would be with all of the financial discussion you brought to the table. You told me you didn't want UofL to end up like Wake Forest! LMFAO!!!! and here is UofL apparently NOT acting like Wake Forest. It seems....

Come on. You gotta laugh just a little. Life is too short.

Why not follow this story about Manning? It's rather interesting, and the outcome will be as well.

 

[Knucklehank1]

Are you well versed in the contract Wake Forest write?

 

[zipp]

Are you well versed in the contract Wake Forest write?

What difference does that make? It has nothing to do with the process.

You contest whether the payee of the buyout performed against whatever provisions are in the contract. "Vince" didn't do that for Petrino's buyout, and he slept on the question one nite before deciding.

"Vince" ain't a lawyer, and it's debatable at this point what business skills transferred with him into the AD job. This particular issue has little or nothing to do with athletics, so I don't know why he needed to learn anything before performing himself on his million-dollar contract.

Of course, when you're hired by clowns, that's probably your standard of performance...

 

[zipp]

The reason for the challenge hasn't been confirmed.

I never had a dog in the fight I actually think BP warranted a substantial buy-out he had the program close to the playoffs and coached Lamar to a Heisman. If BP/UofL could have "kept it going" a few more years a big program would ignore the past and make an offer. Maybe!

What is funny, slightly off topic, I asked you what the worst case scenario for UofL athletics would be with all of the financial discussion you brought to the table. You told me you didn't want UofL to end up like Wake Forest! LMFAO!!!! and here is UofL apparently NOT acting like Wake Forest. It seems....

Come on. You gotta laugh just a little. Life is too short.

Why not follow this story about Manning? It's rather interesting, and the outcome will be as well.

I'm no soothsayer. But you almost have to laugh when you consider how quickly we are now UNDER-performing Wake Forest.

And I'm not--and really never have--opined on whether Petrino deserved $14 million. My issues as you know have always been around what we're getting as an AD making big ticket decisions. I think we could put up polls in this space and vote those decisions about as well as he's making them...

 

[Knucklehank1]

What difference does that make? It has nothing to do with the process.

You contest whether the payee of the buyout performed against whatever provisions are in the contract. "Vince" didn't do that for Petrino's buyout, and he slept on the question one nite before deciding.

"Vince" ain't a lawyer, and it's debatable at this point what business skills transferred with him into the AD job. This particular issue has little or nothing to do with athletics, so I don't know why he needed to learn anything before performing himself on his million-dollar contract.

Of course, when you're hired by clowns, that's probably your standard of performance...

The provisions of the contract are pretty important when determining if the contract obligations have been met or not. Geez.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

Zipp UofL is underperforming WF? In what sports?

 

[zipp]

The provisions of the contract are pretty important when determining if the contract obligations have been met or not. Geez.

Not from the standpoint of the process. You’ve been defending the one that “Vince” followed because you didn’t want him held responsible.

Wake says we had choices...

 

[zipp]

Zipp UofL is underperforming WF? In what sports?

The sport of spending money...

 

[Knucklehank1]

Not from the standpoint of the process. You’ve been defending the one that “Vince” followed because you didn’t want him held responsible.

Wake says we had choices...

You always have choices. It’s just that the provisions of the contract determine which choices are wise and which aren’t.

 

[zipp]

You always have choices. It’s just that the provisions of the contract determine which choices are wise and which aren’t.

That's a changed narrative now. You among others were saying "Vince" and U of L had no choice...

 

[REDFISTFURY3]

That's a changed narrative now. You among others were saying "Vince" and U of L had no choice...

First of all Vince stated his reasoning the school had too much litigation already on the table and it was just not worth the time to get into another court battle. IMOP very sensible .Wake is not going through anything like U of L.

 

[Knucklehank1]

That's a changed narrative now. You among others were saying "Vince" and U of L had no choice...

I have a choice to drive my car 120MPH but that doesn’t make it sensible. If there aren’t provisions in the contract that you can dispute, then you pay the contract. You could choose to not honor the contract but it would be a waste of time and money, which is not sensible.

 

[zipp]

First of all Vince stated his reasoning the school had too much litigation already on the table and it was just not worth the time to get into another court battle. IMOP very sensible .Wake is not going through anything like U of L.

They were each $14-15 million decisions. Are you saying Wake is in a lot better financial condition than we were a couple years ago?

Careful before I dig up Wake's financial stats.

It's kind of sad even hinting we're in worse condition than a P5 doormat in anything...

 

[REDFISTFURY3]

They were each $14-15 million decisions. Are you saying Wake is in a lot better financial condition than we were a couple years ago?

Careful before I dig up Wake's financial stats.

It's kind of sad even hinting we're in worse condition than a P5 doormat in anything...

You know dam well what i'm refering too.

 

[zipp]

I have a choice to drive my car 120MPH but that doesn’t make it sensible. If there aren’t provisions in the contract that you can dispute, then you pay the contract. You could choose to not honor the contract but it would be a waste of time and money, which is not sensible.

Again, yours is a changed narrative. "Vince" supposedly had no choice but to pay the full buyout. Wake obviously disagrees faced with nearly the same decision...

 

[zipp]

You know dam well what i'm refering too.

If you're not talking about what I am, I have no idea what you're trying to claim...

 

[REDFISTFURY3]

If you're not talking about what I am, I have no idea what you're trying to claim...

Ask Tom and Rick