CDP
- Thread starter KenSucky
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So I ask you again - what is your alternative? Simply extend the contract of a (super nice) guy who is not qualified for the position and by doing so, continue the slow descent into 2nd tier status?That analysis doesn't affect what we know at the moment... Everything so far that these goons touch is an unmitigated disaster. So, you want that to now include your new basketball coach from who knows where?...
Unfortunately the guys you’ve pictured aren’t going anywhere - last week’s firing are another clear indication of that. Tyra wouldn’t have fired them if he wasn’t going to be the permanent AD because maybe another person would want to retain those three talented individuals to help in a transition.
Their guards were great but it was a 3 man show carrying them with role players.
Daniels averaged 16 ppg in the title run and he got 20 & 10 in the FF vs Florida. He was the #10 player per Rivals in his class and a 5 star recruit.
You cited this team as an example of a team that won a title with great coaching (the guy is average) and/or a team full of 4 and 3 stars. The reality is the team was neither - they had a highly touted 5 star player deliver and play a crucial role in their run to the title.
The role players on the team were incapable of catching fire like Daniels did in the post season - they didn't have the talent.
He gets carried away with bashing a UK model and trying to apply that to what people are suggesting here.
You are for sure out of control.
#1 you don't get a title without either of those guys.
#2 if you want to hate on Chane because of his off court issues that may be fair - but there's no reason to scoff at Blackshear's career and suggest UofL doesn't want more players like him.
UofL should absolutely want more players like Blackshear you're off the deep end and bashing one of our own to support your goofy agenda.
OK, here's the final 2013 participation stats organized with player rankings per Rivals...
Players are listed in declining order of minutes played (MP) and percentage of MP. The star ratings are found on this site, and the unrated guys are given 2 stars. Unlike a normal summary rating, I calculated the average star rating for the team based on how much each guy played and his individual rating. Siva contributed 0.56 of the overall team rating of 3.63. The low rated guys at the bottom contributed almost nothing although they do pull down the average. (Without the last five counted, the team number rises to 3.71.)
For perspective, a 3.6 rating is the average of three 4-stars and two 3-stars playing an entire 40-minute game.
You also see from the national rank that our highest rated guys were, as I said, Blackshear and Behanan. I can live without more of those guys on the team. Behanan was the only 5-star guy.
This team had some incoming talent, but it was nowhere close to LPT or Duke. Not even in the same discussion. It was coached up by a HOF coach. And I'm 100% confident that the ACC platform and the U of L program can land a roster rated an average of 3.6 stars regardless of the coach...
I don't understand the inconsistency, hop. Maybe you can explain it to me.
Are you trying to tell me that the U of L fans panting for a different coach long for more players like Behanan and Blackshear? You sir are out of touch with your fellow fans...
Well, I do know that the plan espoused by many here is for the one unqualified guy to hire a replacement for the other. Doesn't sound like much of a plan, does it?
The only good choice as we sit here on 2/5/18 is to keep Padgett awhile longer. (Now, if he loses out, I reserve the right to change my mind...) But like you, I don't trust his managers. And it's lunacy to ask them to make a permanent hire costing millions of dollars. You're unfortunately choosing between a rock and a hard place...
I can calculate the star rating for their roster too. It's just an anomaly if you can't assign it to coaching or talent. I just know their talent wasn't extraordinary, nothing approaching these OAD rosters at LPT and Kansas. Their roster was not much different than what we can get at U of L in the ACC with any coach...
Considering the two players you mentioned played major roles in UofL making a FF and winning a title - yes, fans want more players rated in the neighborhood where they were rated.
I don't think fans are asking for a roster full of only 5 star players - fans are just wanting to be able to pull in a few here or there because it's been proven in time title winners need a 5 star player to win the title.
In this thread you pointed out UofL and UCONN as teams that won titles without 5 star players and you were wrong about that (Daniels for UCONN Behanan for UofL).
Now you're just so deep you're taking the next bizarre plunge and bashing former UofL players that were instrumental in the Cards title run because your agenda is more important to you than reality.
Blackshear was a selfless player that sacrificed personal achievements for team achievements yes give us more like him and you preach this L1C4 mantra on the reg yet contradict that position by trashing Blackshear. He could have transferred at any time or just turned pro and gone overseas yet he was L1C4 as you say, yet here you are running him down.
Tisk tisk.
Don't need any star calculations, just want the program to pull in a 5 star player now and then.
A title team without a 5 star player making contributions is the anomaly. 2 of the 3 examples you introduced had a 5 star player, UCONN and UofL. I didn't research NOVA but would not be surprised if they had a 5 star player on their title team either. If they didn't, they are the anomaly.
I don't think anybody wants recruiting classes like KU and UK - I'm not sure why you are taking this to extreme measures but okay!
This has been an interesting thread. To sum it up
Talent matters
Coaching matters
Experience matters
College basketball is a weird place and it took a while to get there but the one and done has official taken hold. There is so much turnover through out college basketball every team is regrouping every year. Find me a team that did well last that didn't have to replace much and those are the teams have been the most consistent week in week out. Purdue, Xavier, Villanova, and Virginia all have a ton of experience, it shows.
That is probably the most disappointing thing about this Louisville team is they don't play like they are experienced. They play young especially Deng and King. King takes a ball into the lane takes a stupid shot if the ref didn't bail him out it would have been a turnover. All he had to do is a give it to Q for a wide open three. That would have been a smart play instead he tired to make a harder play. They all do it multiple times in a game.
This hire is the most important coaching hire in the history of the school. They really can't miss. It really matters who is actually interested before we can say David is or isn't the best choice.
Talent matters
Coaching matters
Experience matters
College basketball is a weird place and it took a while to get there but the one and done has official taken hold. There is so much turnover through out college basketball every team is regrouping every year. Find me a team that did well last that didn't have to replace much and those are the teams have been the most consistent week in week out. Purdue, Xavier, Villanova, and Virginia all have a ton of experience, it shows.
That is probably the most disappointing thing about this Louisville team is they don't play like they are experienced. They play young especially Deng and King. King takes a ball into the lane takes a stupid shot if the ref didn't bail him out it would have been a turnover. All he had to do is a give it to Q for a wide open three. That would have been a smart play instead he tired to make a harder play. They all do it multiple times in a game.
This hire is the most important coaching hire in the history of the school. They really can't miss. It really matters who is actually interested before we can say David is or isn't the best choice.
OK, here's the final 2013 participation stats organized with player rankings per Rivals...
Players are listed in declining order of minutes played (MP) and percentage of MP. The star ratings are found on this site, and the unrated guys are given 2 stars. Unlike a normal summary rating, I calculated the average star rating for the team based on how much each guy played and his individual rating. Siva contributed 0.56 of the overall team rating of 3.63. The low rated guys at the bottom contributed almost nothing although they do pull down the average. (Without the last five counted, the team number rises to 3.71.)
For perspective, a 3.6 rating is the average of three 4-stars and two 3-stars playing an entire 40-minute game.
You also see from the national rank that our highest rated guys were, as I said, Blackshear and Behanan. I can live without more of those guys on the team. Behanan was the only 5-star guy.
This team had some incoming talent, but it was nowhere close to LPT or Duke. Not even in the same discussion. It was coached up by a HOF coach. And I'm 100% confident that the ACC platform and the U of L program can land a roster rated an average of 3.6 stars regardless of the coach...
More spin. 3 McD AA's, one a senior point guard, and probably the most talented guys on the team, Deng, Harrell, and Russ Smith weren't even the McD AA's but you want to down play our talent? Anyone who watched us play UK and Duke knows we had more talent and experience than either team. The talent on that team in that three year period nearly resulted in a 3 peat. Take away Russ Smith choking against UK and we almost certainly would have made 3 straight Final Fours. You think all that was effing luck or just Pitino? This lack of talent narrative might be the nuttiest thing I have seen on here since the Kragthorpe days.
Look here is the misconception at least with me wanting to give David the position. It’s the opportunity to be able to recruit, to tell some of these guys, hey I’ll be back next year for you instead of having to learn a new system. You know what scares players the most with a new coach? They are more than likely to bring in their own guys, not because they better but because the coach made a promise to them. With all that is going on, we certainly will lose some continuity with the program. The scholarship reductions don’t help. Name me one coach that would have more loyalty right now? I never said anything about long term. While I think he has a lot to learn, I think there are a lot more positives than negatives.
On the surface I can see why you think these are relevant similarities, but really here we are are trying to hang on to a banner and you would be complaining about CDP winning a banner with CRP players? Last I looked it still says that UCONN won a NC and Kevin Ollie was the HC, no asterisks that I can see. Sure he sucks now, but he never had the coaching background that CDP had. Ollie was only on Calhoun’s staff 2 years. He simply was a logical choice at the time because Calhoun’s other assistant was as old as Calhoun.
Davis other than being on Knights staff, didn’t play at IU and didn’t play for a HOF coach like CDP, unless you think CM Newton and wimp Sanderson were HOFamers? So Davis wasn’t the right guy? Neither was Sampson or Crean, two higher profile can’t miss coaches.
Got anything else?
Everything is risk reward or who has the highest ceiling. It depends on who is interested. Tony Bennett, Mack, Wright, Brey or Donovan wanting the job is a little different than Tom Crean, Buzz Williams, or Hamilton wanting it. You don't turn down the first group at all for David Padgett because they are proven commodities. The fan base would lose their mind if Wright was passed over for Padgett. On the flip side the fan base would lose their mind if Padgett wasn't given a serious look if the second list are the only people that want the job.
The PR on this hire is very important. It really does have the Tennessee football hire feel to it because the fans are so divided right now and no one trust the current leadership.
This is a really difficult hire to get right. There are only a handful of guys that the fan base as a whole would support.
The PR on this hire is very important. It really does have the Tennessee football hire feel to it because the fans are so divided right now and no one trust the current leadership.
This is a really difficult hire to get right. There are only a handful of guys that the fan base as a whole would support.
Explain to me why Jay Wright who may be on his way to his 2nd NC and has proven he can win at Villanova wants to come to Louisville. Because we’re top 5 program? He’s been at Villanova 17 years. If he was going to leave, he had already done it.
Oh I know you’re going to wave CRP’s 7 million salary in front of him. Good luck finding that money.
Brey - that’s an exciting hire, good coach who hasn’t won a thing and probably has his best days behind him.
Oh I know you’re going to wave CRP’s 7 million salary in front of him. Good luck finding that money.
Brey - that’s an exciting hire, good coach who hasn’t won a thing and probably has his best days behind him.
Our situation, in my opinion, is much different than it was before the two scandals. I think without those, we could have gotten just about anyone we wanted. Now the program is tainted and we are bleeding out financially and Jurich is gone. I don't think Jay Wright would want to rebuild us considering the nice gig he has now.
I have no problem pointing to facts, even if you wanna call that bashing. Behanan was a knucklehead whose own behavior personally might cause you the banner he helped earn. Blackshear was a disappointment on the court; fond recollections are fine, but they blur the truth. I didn't ask whether he was a Boy Scout.
I also never said I don't want 5-star kids (despite the fact that few if any have been successful here). Some of you guys like painting me as a "talent doesn't matter" guy. Exaggeration is what someone losing the argument does. You don't need or maybe even want a guy who pursues a lot of 5-star kids. No evidence that's needed with U of L and Padgett.
And you have no reason to expect Padgett recruiting to U of L and the ACC can't do that...
Because recruiting at THAT level is about the only expectation of Padgett you can't reasonably make. A combination of 4-star and high-3 star kids is what to expect and what he and just about any other coach here can deliver...
Bad calculus... I'm not sure why you're the only guy in the 2000s still using McDonald's AAs as a guidepost. But you can't fully analyze a roster with that ranking. Politics aside, that metric ranks 25 kids and leaves hundreds with no ranking at all. Fortunately, we have "star" systems like Rivals which go waaaaay down the pecking order so you can accurately quantify this stuff and without politics getting involved.
The 2013 team had great players who came together for a magical run. The team was not composed of great talent out of high school.
That's a OAD system and not what U of L runs. Sorry...
Tyra needs to work on his own credibility to make this hire. As badly as you want a new coach, you don't want a member of a clown show doing it. Tyra needs to decide/prove if he's in this group or not...
There is a historical correlation between McD AA's and success in the NCAA tournament. Having 3 in your starting line up means you have talent and as I said, those weren't even the most talented players on our team. That team had talent and their record proved it. Without Deng's wrist injury they had a shot to go undefeated which considering the schedule would have been amazing. Sorry but we should be able to recruit at a higher level than Big East and AAC programs. We should be able to get at least one 5 star player each year and most of our recruits should be 4 and 5 star players. If our next coach can't do that then we have picked the wrong coach.
Dating back decades, 4-star and high-3 star kids are what the best U of L basketball teams were built on.
I don't have any problem trying to get the RIGHT 5-star kid in this program. However, in recent history, we haven't done a good job at that. And I'm not a believer in doing the same thing and expecting different results...
I don't have any problem trying to get the RIGHT 5-star kid in this program. However, in recent history, we haven't done a good job at that. And I'm not a believer in doing the same thing and expecting different results...
It’s Dieng and you have been exposed as a yuck fan.. quoting Adolph and his funny post game comments.. we can do without any of your further comments. Run back over to cat piss, please.
We didn’t with Crum and we didn’t with CRP... sure I want more but I wouldn’t want the mercenaries down the road that nobody can remember their names...
You don't need multiple 4 and 5 stars but you do need the right ones that fit the program and roster. That championship team was a perfect mix of talent and players that played their role really well. Siva, Smith, Gorgi, and Hancock were talented and experienced add in Chane, Blackshear and Trez perfect compliment to the older players.
It is really hard to build that kind of roster.
It is really hard to build that kind of roster.
Please tell me that you’re not hanging your hat on Padgett’s “coaching background” - consisting of a couple of seasons as an an assistant at IUPUI and a couple more at the end of UofL’s bench as evidence that he’s qualified for the job - lol. Also, the choice isn’t between Ollie (or Davis) and Padgett - if it were, you might have a leg to stand on.
It's all about pedigree and Padgett comes from that background. Not saying that is the only factor, but it is A factor. I like the young man and I personally hope he does well enough to get the chance to have the interim tag removed. I know your stance regarding CDP and I respect it. We can simply agree to disagree on whether he should be given the job full time or not. He's getting his shot and I'm pulling for him to succeed.
Go CARDS!!!!
No way Zipp you think after tonight CDP should still be the coach. I had a top 3, but now I can think of 10 that I'd want instead. Love that he bleeds red, but I think he can't coach defense. No help side at all, players don't jump to the ball, Cure j had 40 against Virginia and drop 80 on us. Give me a break. Phone call please to Mack, Smart, or Marshall eeds to happen ASAP! Get a bug in their ear soon. Go Cards!
You've gone real silent on the facts I gave you on Daniels for UCONN and you're just spinning some character clause against Chane while simultaneously sticking your nose up at Blackshear's character. So you are straight up moving the goal posts with those two guys.
Facts are 2 of the 3 teams that you listed as examples of winning titles with 3 and 4 star kids also had a 5 star player contribute. It shouldn't be such a pain to your ego to simply say, "I forgot Chane was a 5 star and honestly dude I don't know who the hell DeAndre Daniels is"
I don't think Zipp is actually saying retain Padgett because of his coaching ability, he's just saying the alternatives probably aren't affordable and the program is in quicksand for a few years anyway. That part of his argument isn't so bad really.
Went ahead and took a looksie at Nova, they had a 5 star starting in the title game, and the other 4 starters were 4 star guys. Their 6th and 7th men were also 4 star players.
That's good recruiting. They were also lucky enough to have SRs.
Apparently you missed the first half of Denny's career. From about 1978-1990 we had the best recruiting in the country.
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