After reading the crap journal

[Senore2006]

No doubt they upped the profile. I never argued to the contrary. Unfortunately there were foundation, endowment, administrative infrastructure that wasn’t in place that needed to be to ensure future rational growth.

What the.............?? Are you saying that historical and even PRESENT "rational growth" are somehow going to diminish the future????? That is just a gobbleygook of words. Of course the - what was it, lol? - infrastructure, foundation and administrations were in place. How the hell do you think they produced what they did, lol.???? And, going forward, based on the academic, cultural and gthe added ACC-affiliated research partnerships at present and to come, how on earth is this perceived as some sort of detrimental situation??? You make no sense to me at all.

 

[Knucklehank1]

What the.............?? Are you saying that historical and even PRESENT "rational growth" are somehow going to diminish the future????? That is just a gobbleygook of words. Of course the - what was it, lol? - infrastructure, foundation and administrations were in place. How the hell do you think they produced what they did, lol.???? And, going forward, based on the academic, cultural and gthe added ACC-affiliated research partnerships at present and to come, how on earth is this perceived as some sort of detrimental situation??? You make no sense to me at all.

Sorry you don’t understand my post.

I’d suggest you read the audit report to see if proper governance and oversight was in place. Also you might look at the minutes of today’s BOT meeting to see some other eye opening issues.

The growth was not being supported by a strong foundation, both literally and figuratively.

 

[Senore2006]

Sorry you don’t understand my post.

I’d suggest you read the audit report to see if proper governance and oversight was in place. Also you might look at the minutes of today’s BOT meeting to see some other eye opening issues.

The growth was not being supported by a strong foundation, both literally and figuratively.

Define "proper governance" for us all. There are no criminal penalties coming down at Louisville for financial misbehavior at the presidential or AD levels. What does this tell us?? I'll let you answer that.

As far as the board itself is concerned, they are sadly committed to trashing those who preceded them. More was accomplished by the last regime than had ever even been attempted before. Simply because the birds on the board cannot understand what went on, does not actually make that wrong whatsoever. It is you who don;t understand, imo, anyway. And I sure as hell don't trust this BOT as far as I could freaking throw them.

 

[eastwood45789]

There have been federal investigations, and I remember one department head going to prison. There may be more trouble with the Katina Powell - Mc Gee mess which at a minimum was corrupting athletes and paying prostitutes. Karen Sypher went to jail with the Pitino mess. The foundation was raided to pay Ramsey and his assistants and Papa John was unhappy with the ULAA mess and Jurich's failure to take responsibility for the embarassments. Then you have the whole NCAA investigation mess and the 2 final fours and national championship in 2013 at risk. These 3 "leaders" had to be fired to avoid the NCAA death penalty. A side note is the pathetic way the team had to sit out the tournament. Good riddance and welcome to new leadership.

 

[KozmasAgain]

You're the only one who is suggesting the death penalty. I guess you're trying to be dramatic but they haven't given anyone the death penalty since they gave it to SMU.

 

[Knucklehank1]

Define "proper governance" for us all. There are no criminal penalties coming down at Louisville for financial misbehavior at the presidential or AD levels. What does this tell us?? I'll let you answer that.

As far as the board itself is concerned, they are sadly committed to trashing those who preceded them. More was accomplished by the last regime than had ever even been attempted before. Simply because the birds on the board cannot understand what went on, does not actually make that wrong whatsoever. It is you who don;t understand, imo, anyway. And I sure as hell don't trust this BOT as far as I could freaking throw them.

Proper governance would be checks and balances on spending, decision making, hiring, endowment stewardship amongst other things. The Foundation, ULAA and to some extent the BOT did not maintain their fiduciary responsibilities to the university.

 

[zipp]

Read the audit report, not the CJ.

I don’t believe an institution such as a major university can sustain itself without proper oversight and governance. That doesn’t diminish what Jurich and Ramsey were able to accomplish.

You telling me the CJ cut U of L some slack? That's rich.

Again, I read about procedural and transparency issues...nothing else. You point me in the direction of one thing--ONE THING--that mattered...

 

[zipp]

...there were foundation, endowment, administrative infrastructure that wasn’t in place that needed to be to ensure future rational growth.

That's just rhetoric. The people who were canned were the people responsible for where things are today. You're simply a hater...

 

[zipp]

...I’d suggest you read the audit report to see if proper governance and oversight was in place. Also you might look at the minutes of today’s BOT meeting to see some other eye opening issues...

You keep suggesting that, yet you can't point to a single issue where U of L was financially disadvantaged thru fraud, neglect, or incompetence. ...Which is exactly the reason why Ramsey hasn't been sued for all of that money he allegedly cost us.

And you seriously expect us to take the word of this BoT as evidence of impropriety with their forebears? How stupid do you think we are?...

 

[Knucklehank1]

You keep suggesting that, yet you can't point to a single issue where U of L was financially disadvantaged thru fraud, neglect, or incompetence. ...Which is exactly the reason why Ramsey hasn't been sued for all of that money he allegedly cost us.

And you seriously expect us to take the word of this BoT as evidence of impropriety with their forebears? How stupid do you think we are?...

So your threshold is if an issue is criminal or not. Awesome

 

[Knucklehank1]

You telling me the CJ cut U of L some slack? That's rich.

Again, I read about procedural and transparency issues...nothing else. You point me in the direction of one thing--ONE THING--that mattered...

I could care less what the CJ thinks. I form my own informed opinions.

 

[Knucklehank1]

That's just rhetoric. The people who were canned were the people responsible for where things are today. You're simply a hater...

You can’t dispute any item from the audit report because you refuse to read anything that may disparage St. Tom.

 

[Senore2006]

So your threshold is if an issue is criminal or not. Awesome

His threshold was a bit more obvious that that. You apparently are struggling to see that - Was the university better or worse off after they played the roles they played? Creativity has always been resented by small minds - they resent not being able to have the vision or scope necessary to appreciate fluid thinking nd they want nothing more than to burn down whatever was accomplished under a banner based on creative minds.

Conformity kills the spirit. UofL was incredibly lucky to have had Ramsey and Jurich behind the scenes. That anyone would even argue that is kind of absurd.

 

[eastwood45789]

This is a classic case of greed, self destruction, and lack of accountability. You have to be accountable in using taxpayers and donors money, as well as acting in the best of interests of students and student athletes in these positions. It didn't end up that way.

 

[Knucklehank1]

His threshold was a bit more obvious that that. You apparently are struggling to see that - Was the university better or worse off after they played the roles they played? Creativity has always been resented by small minds - they resent not being able to have the vision or scope necessary to appreciate fluid thinking nd they want nothing more than to burn down whatever was accomplished under a banner based on creative minds.

Conformity kills the spirit. UofL was incredibly lucky to have had Ramsey and Jurich behind the scenes. That anyone would even argue that is kind of absurd.

And what you cannot see is that I don’t besmirch what they accomplished. I also recognize that they were going down a reckless path without proper oversight. Two independent thoughts.

 

[Senore2006]

And what you cannot see is that I don’t besmirch what they accomplished. I also recognize that they were going down a reckless path without proper oversight. Two independent thoughts.

Can you tell then, when your assumption that they were so reckless began? If it was long term, perhaps a pejorative term like "reckless" may be inappropriate. If it happened at a certain point, then surely you can identify when that was and what ramifications make it so obvious. I'll wait for your response.

 

[Senore2006]

This is a classic case of greed, self destruction, and lack of accountability. You have to be accountable in using taxpayers and donors money, as well as acting in the best of interests of students and student athletes in these positions. It didn't end up that way.

Dude, you aren't even funny any more. Do you post here regularly?

 

[Knucklehank1]

Can you tell then, when your assumption that they were so reckless began? If it was long term, perhaps a pejorative term like "reckless" may be inappropriate. If it happened at a certain point, then surely you can identify when that was and what ramifications make it so obvious. I'll wait for your response.

After I read the audit report, I feel confident that Ramsey was acting recklessly and Jurich was a willing party. I have a fair amount of experience on non profit boards and the audit findings concerned me greatly.

 

[eastwood45789]

It's easy to make yourself look good when you have ship loads of taxpayer money as well as generous donor money. That demands accountability and respectability. The students, student athletes, faculty, staff, donors and taxpayers deserve much better.

 

[Senore2006]

After I read the audit report, I feel confident that Ramsey was acting recklessly and Jurich was a willing party. I have a fair amount of experience on non profit boards and the audit findings concerned me greatly.

Did you bother reading the rather long posts I copy and pasted from my friend the other day?

 

[Senore2006]

It's easy to make yourself look good when you have ship loads of taxpayer money as well as generous donor money. That demands accountability and respectability. The students, student athletes, faculty, staff, donors and taxpayers deserve much better.

Ha ha, you're still here!!!

 

[Knucklehank1]

Did you bother reading the rather long posts I copy and pasted from my friend the other day?

I haven’t read it. If I have some time this evening I’ll take a look.

 

[zipp]

So your threshold is if an issue is criminal or not. Awesome

No, my issue is whether U of L can prove that Ramsey's "recklessness" and lack of "oversight" cost U of L money. If they (U of L) could, you'd be reading about a big lawsuit against Ramsey. The only logical conclusion since there were millions allegedly involved is that they cannot prove it.

Which irrespective of the audit's findings means that it didn't find anything of substance or tangible. You'd at least have a civil suit for those damages or a criminal charge by prosecutors. Those guys are all letting you down in your hate quest...

 

[zipp]

You can’t dispute any item from the audit report because you refuse to read anything that may disparage St. Tom.

I dispute that there was anything tangible which I assume you understand the definition of. Their findings were procedural and related to authority and transparency.

Those are not completely irrelevant, but they don't necessarily lead to fraud and embezzlement unless the perpetrators wanted to accomplish that. To the contrary, there's no evidence I can read that Ramsey or Jurich--inappropriately and intentionally or unintentionally--gained personally from the Foundation.

The existence of an audit doesn't mean anything on its own. The existence of findings don't mean anything beyond what they contain. You can believe what you want, but that doesn't constitute facts. And that's why these guys haven't been sued for anything. There are no facts of consequence...

 

[Knucklehank1]

So you’ve decided that what Ramsey allowed to happen didn’t rise to a fireable level because he has yet to be sued or face criminal charges? Just want to make sure where your line in the sand is drawn.

By the way, there is no way you read that audit report and reached that conclusion. Look at what UofL alum and reknown accountant Diane Medley thought about the audit results.

 

[zipp]

So you’ve decided that what Ramsey allowed to happen didn’t rise to a fireable level because he has yet to be sued or face criminal charges? Just want to make sure where your line in the sand is drawn.

By the way, there is no way you read that audit report and reached that conclusion. Look at what UofL alum and reknown accountant Diane Medley thought about the audit results.

It doesn't matter what one member or even the entire Board THINKS. It's what the findings were, what they contained, what the direct evidence was.

We already know that these people have various agendas, incl. you. Bring me the evidence if you wanna legitimately execute on that agenda; otherwise, it's just unfounded hate.

It's perfectly OK for you to hate these guys now gone. Just don't try to convince me without facts that your opinion is valid or that those guys deserved to be gone. And to your question, a Prez who built most of that financial warchest, not following procedure, but not gaining personally is NOT in total a fire-able offense. Not IMO anyway, but I don't have an agenda...

 

[Knucklehank1]

It doesn't matter what one member or even the entire Board THINKS. It's what the findings were, what they contained, what the direct evidence was.

We already know that these people have various agendas, incl. you. Bring me the evidence if you wanna legitimately execute on that agenda; otherwise, it's just unfounded hate.

It's perfectly OK for you to hate these guys now gone. Just don't try to convince me without facts that your opinion is valid or that those guys deserved to be gone. And to your question, a Prez who built most of that financial warchest, not following procedure, but not gaining personally is NOT in total a fire-able offense. Not IMO anyway, but I don't have an agenda...

So one of the preeminent accountants around (an esteemed UofL alum) looked at the findings (ie: facts) and concluded that there was reckless behavior and little governance and yet that assessment of the facts doesn’t matter?

In my world, an audit report findings by a reputable consulting firm is sufficient to make personnel and policy decisions from. You prefer hero worship.

 

[zipp]

So one of the preeminent accountants around (an esteemed UofL alum) looked at the findings (ie: facts) and concluded that there was reckless behavior and little governance and yet that assessment of the facts doesn’t matter?

In my world, an audit report findings by a reputable consulting firm is sufficient to make personnel and policy decisions from. You prefer hero worship.

Well, let me ask you a question... Who allowed Ramsey to behave the "reckless" way he was behaving? God? The Governor? Oh yeah, he had a BOARD overseeing his actions. Kinda like Jurich did while he was managing Pitino. And THOSE BOARDS are responsible first and foremost in a rational world sans agendas.

Like any employee regardless of how well compensated, those guys needed to be told what they were doing was "reckless". And there needs to be hard evidence of that--not the alleged offenses, but being TOLD they were offenses. Then and only then do you have legit fire-able offenses. Not simply because you or someone else doesn't like a guy or his actions. Jurich and Ramsey were scapegoats for the irresponsibility of their respective Boards, and that's ONLY IF these guys were doing some legitimately wrong.

But I don't really think they were (doing something wrong). The level of crime and who was responsible were trumped up to get Ramsey and Jurich out of the picture. Too much power and money in the hands of people who were outnumbered by scumbags and the sheep who followed them. Outnumbered by your friends...

 

[Knucklehank1]

Well, let me ask you a question... Who allowed Ramsey to behave the "reckless" way he was behaving? God? The Governor? Oh yeah, he had a BOARD overseeing his actions. Kinda like Jurich did while he was managing Pitino. And THOSE BOARDS are responsible first and foremost in a rational world sans agendas.

Like any employee regardless of how well compensated, those guys needed to be told what they were doing was "reckless". And there needs to be hard evidence of that--not the alleged offenses, but being TOLD they were offenses. Then and only then do you have legit fire-able offenses. Not simply because you or someone else doesn't like a guy or his actions. Jurich and Ramsey were scapegoats for the irresponsibility of their respective Boards, and that's ONLY IF these guys were doing some legitimately wrong.

But I don't really think they were (doing something wrong). The level of crime and who was responsible were trumped up to get Ramsey and Jurich out of the picture. Too much power and money in the hands of people who were outnumbered by scumbags and the sheep who followed them. Outnumbered by your friends...

Ramsey was the President of the Foundation!!

 

[zipp]

Ramsey was the President of the Foundation!!

And he reported to their Board!! You understand how executive management works?...

 

[Senore2006]

So one of the preeminent accountants around (an esteemed UofL alum) looked at the findings (ie: facts) and concluded that there was reckless behavior and little governance and yet that assessment of the facts doesn’t matter?

In my world, an audit report findings by a reputable consulting firm is sufficient to make personnel and policy decisions from. You prefer hero worship.

"Esteemed Accountants" believe walking out the door is "reckless".

The university came into more money than they could shake a stick at. It was profound new level of wealth. Everything was new and it was equally inevitable that some bad apples would try some embezzlement, because that is human nature. But the ;recklessness" has yet to be specified and that is a glaring deficiency in the supposed "transparency" of this issue. Conclusions were reached amid freaking scandalous newspaper reports which were terribly flawed and agenda-driven in the first place. In the second, once again, we arrive at the point where what is obvious to yourself should become obvious to others. And yet, - (and I like you, no offense in tended) - you offer nothing. How irritating it is that people swear by opinions which are not enunciated clearly. I have the view that the moneys were handled pretty hod dam well. We ;look at the wealth created by the univeristy and the athletic department, the facilities expansions, the growing endowment, the tripling of faculty chairs, the new beauty of the campus - the elevation of conference affiliation and the resulting partnerships with highly rated research universities -=............................ and I see success. Huge, big, giant, titanic success.

Please remind me how wrong this is and why. I have set up and run million dollar businesses from elbow grease beginnings - I think I can handle economic terms and concepts.

 

[Knucklehank1]

And he reported to their Board!! You understand how executive management works?...

So yes, the Board and the President were culpable. That’s why they were all replaced.

 

[Knucklehank1]

"Esteemed Accountants" believe walking out the door is "reckless".

The university came into more money than they could shake a stick at. It was profound new level of wealth. Everything was new and it was equally inevitable that some bad apples would try some embezzlement, because that is human nature. But the ;recklessness" has yet to be specified and that is a glaring deficiency in the supposed "transparency" of this issue. Conclusions were reached amid freaking scandalous newspaper reports which were terribly flawed and agenda-driven in the first place. In the second, once again, we arrive at the point where what is obvious to yourself should become obvious to others. And yet, - (and I like you, no offense in tended) - you offer nothing. How irritating it is that people swear by opinions which are not enunciated clearly. I have the view that the moneys were handled pretty hod dam well. We ;look at the wealth created by the univeristy and the athletic department, the facilities expansions, the growing endowment, the tripling of faculty chairs, the new beauty of the campus - the elevation of conference affiliation and the resulting partnerships with highly rated research universities -=............................ and I see success. Huge, big, giant, titanic success.

Please remind me how wrong this is and why. I have set up and run million dollar businesses from elbow grease beginnings - I think I can handle economic terms and concepts.

I’m not going to waste time and list every issue that was enunciated in the audit report. You can either look at it or not. Assuming you read it we just simply reach a different conclusion. When I read it, I see an executive who had reached a point where he had worn out any brakes and was taking advantage of an absentee board. Couple that with some pretty significant lack of oversight and other miscellaneous issues (deans embezzling money, employee theft, multiple high ranking employees being paid hush money, no confidence votes from multiple schools). To me it all paints a picture of someone who had little time or regard for oversight and had reached the end of his shelf life.

 

[Senore2006]

I’m not going to waste time and list every issue that was enunciated in the audit report. You can either look at it or not. Assuming you read it we just simply reach a different conclusion. When I read it, I see an executive who had reached a point where he had worn out any brakes and was taking advantage of an absentee board. Couple that with some pretty significant lack of oversight and other miscellaneous issues (deans embezzling money, employee theft, multiple high ranking employees being paid hush money, no confidence votes from multiple schools). To me it all paints a picture of someone who had little time or regard for oversight and had reached the end of his shelf life.

LOL, everyone has an opinion I guess. In other words, you have not even glanced at my posts referred to earlier.

 

[eastwood45789]

The former president used the foundation and board to reward himself and some assistants in lavish fashion. The former BOT at the time let it happen while the scandals continued. There was no choice but to remove them and the president and right the ship. This was extensively covered in the audit and several media outlets. There is no reason for a couple of posters to show their lack of knowledge of the facts.

 

[eastwood45789]

se

Ha ha, you're still here!!!

senore? Never heard of her.

 

[MikeMcCammon]

Everybody knows a house cleaning was in order.

Not everybody. Some think there was no problem operating under the table with no accountability for millions of dollars being distributed to certain individuals. The people who are really responsible for what we now have had ample time to clean up the mess but simply refused to do so. Easy money will do that. Thanks to them we now have someone like Grissom in charge. Hard to say where it all will lead but the prior situation, in spite of advancements in some areas, was not going to continue and unfortunately it led to destruction of our basketball program that is still pending. Meanwhile the culprits have ridden off into the sunset with saddlebags full of cash while we await our punishment for doing nothing more than being fans and supporters.

 

[Knucklehank1]

LOL, everyone has an opinion I guess. In other words, you have not even glanced at my posts referred to earlier.

I just read your post. You provided a decent summary of how Foundation’s were run the past. You failed to mention the drawbacks of running a foundation that way - excessive compensation, lack of transparency, questionable real estate transactions, etc. Fortunately most states are now deciding that Foundation’s need transparency and oversight. President Ramsey (and I suspect TJ as well) didn’t understand this evolution. Ramsey wouldn’t even agree to be interviewed for the audit.

 

[zipp]

So yes, the Board and the President were culpable. That’s why they were all replaced.

No, that's not why they were all replaced. It was power and politics based on trumped up allegations. Which is why--where the rubber meets the road--none of them have been sued. There's nothing to sue them about.

Nothing tangible in the audit, and no lawsuits. You're only right about one thing...Ramsey's gone.

 

[zipp]

...excessive compensation...

Evidence please?

...questionable real estate transactions...

And this too?

Just quoting garbage doesn't make it so. Except to reinforce one guy's misguided opinion...