Zipp ---- Thoughts on Yum Center and TJ's comments today?

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

Where are we at on this?

This is something I don't follow well enough to have any opinion.

Zipp, can you summarize the situation for me?

Or anybody else in the know.

 

[REDFISTFURY3]

Might want to podcast WLOU104.7 and hear Tom's words on it. I don't think theirs one person on this board that is qualified to give a answer for this.

 

[zipp]

hop, thanks for asking, but I'm just repeating what I've heard and can expect going forward...

I saw the CJ article and heard Jurich address the question a few weeks ago at a booster club function. His answers are mostly the same. Jurich made the remark in early November that the City should "buy out" U of L's contract if they don't want U of L as a tenant--that's how he's interpreting the treatment U of L is receiving. U of L agreed to go downtown when they didn't really want to, and they're not going to be made out as the fall guy.

Here's some tidbits that I heard and can reasonably conclude:

• Jurich is posturing to some extent with his present comments. But I think his real issue is that no one can come to grips with how much money is needed. The metaphor I've used is that he isn't jumping into a money pit that he can't see the bottom of.

• The amount of money we'll soon hear to stem the red ink will low-ball the real amount needed. Arena operations fall short of funding expenses to the tune of $20+ million annually. And there will be pressure to raise money as long as that deficit exists.

• At the club function, Jurich also referred to a hotel and convention center on the silo property. He's both ratcheting up the stakes--competing with the City for other business--and progressing his thinking beyond just men's basketball. And who shouldn't take him seriously?

• Bailout Arena has also taught U of L some things... They have a better handle on how many seats and suites they can sell. And they know how NOT to design a new arena from a fan experience standpoint. Both of those would lead IMO to a scaled-down, larger footprint arena at the silo property.

• In a real pi$$ing match, the bondholders are the ones with the most to lose. The City's and U of L's financial liabilities are limited to nonexistent. Of course, the City doesn't want to see a bankruptcy and voided contracts with U of L and the sponsors.

None of this is surprising, and the tone will get more acrimonious before it improves. Ultimately, there may be some type of arena kumbaya, but I wouldn't make that bet. And although I'll hate seeing it, I still maintain that arena was built to someday attract an NBA team to Louisville...

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

Zipp - thanks for the response

 

[zipp]

One other interesting comment Jurich has made is how disappointed he is with the ability of students to attend games at 2nd & Main. He's said he knew that would be an issue, but playing near campus is paramount to addressing that.

Jeff Walz will tell you that he has all but given up trying to attract students to the women's games.

Jim Host Student Unfriendly Arena

 

[earsky]

One other interesting comment Jurich has made is how disappointed he is with the ability of students to attend games at 2nd & Main.

A real concern that isn't hard to imagine,if you've been thru the campus lately.The amount of students on campus(and without knowing) has probably doubled in the last 5 years.My guess is a lot of these kids are not from Louisville and don't have cars accessible or a desire to navigate the 20 or so blocks to get downtown.

I do believe the hunt for an NBA team will come maybe sooner than later(and whether we like it or not).
Any truth to rumors of a potential buyer for YUM?

 

[indaville]

One thing is clear Tom does not want to be there now nor did he want to go downtown before they built it. Put a NBA team in there and be done with it and we can move to the silo site and pack thousands of students in it every game.

 

[OmegaCard]

A real concern that isn't hard to imagine,if you've been thru the campus lately.The amount of students on campus(and without knowing) has probably doubled in the last 5 years.My guess is a lot of these kids are not from Louisville and don't have cars accessible or a desire to navigate the 20 or so blocks to get downtown.

I do believe the hunt for an NBA team will come maybe sooner than later(and whether we like it or not).
Any truth to rumors of a potential buyer for YUM?

7,000 students living in UofL housing according to the University magazine.

One thing is clear Tom does not want to be there now nor did he want to go downtown before they built it. Put a NBA team in there and be done with it and we can move to the silo site and pack thousands of students in it every game.

He should be pissed. They're going to have to give a sweet deal to any NBA team thinking about moving. So really all they want to do is take away UofL's sweet deal

 

[eastwood45789]

This was a financial fiasco from the get go. Freedom Hall could have and should have been renovated. There has been a history of letting iconic facilities rot down.

 

[CardX]

This was a financial fiasco from the get go. Freedom Hall could have and should have been renovated. There has been a history of letting iconic facilities rot down.

Renovating FH was never an option, I don't believe. It was time to move on.

 

[CommodoreCard]

Freedom Hall is falling apart now...they had to remove 6,000 seats due to poor roofing during the Kentucky State Fair.

 

[Petjurino]

One thing is clear Tom does not want to be there now nor did he want to go downtown before they built it. Put a NBA team in there and be done with it and we can move to the silo site and pack thousands of students in it every game.

This is a good point. Tom and most of our fanbase don't have any desire to be in the YUM Center.

 

[BPGhost]

This is a good point. Tom and most of our fanbase don't have any desire to be in the YUM Center.

You think the majority of our Fanbase would rather be at an arena on the silo site? That seems crazy to me. What do you base that on?

 

[Petjurino]

You think the majority of our Fanbase would rather be at an arena on the silo site? That seems crazy to me. What do you base that on?

Many of the same things Tom has said. The ability to get the students to the game is a big one. Quite frankly as Tom also said, I don't want to be someplace I am not wanted and it's clear that the city, the state, and the arena authority don't want us there. Screw them. I am with Tom on this one. I think we should leave just as he said. Do you not agree? Do you think we should stay? Just curious as to why? Not saying you are wrong as you are obviously entitled to your opinion. I am just curious with all we know and what Tom has told us, why would we as UofL fans want to be in that arena anymore?

 

[Petjurino]

You think the majority of our Fanbase would rather be at an arena on the silo site? That seems crazy to me. What do you base that on?

Not to mention the fact that the city and arena board are coming back and wanting to take money from us. So say your employer paid you $250,000 a year for a job that typically paid $100,000. Then they came back and said "hey we paid you more that we can really afford, we need you to pay that back or you're the bad guy." It's their mistake. Would you want to work and stay in a place like that?

 

[OmegaCard]

Not to mention the fact that the city and arena board are coming back and wanting to take money from us. So say your employer paid you $250,000 a year for a job that typically paid $100,000. Then they came back and said "hey we paid you more that we can really afford, we need you to pay that back or you're the bad guy." It's their mistake. Would you want to work and stay in a place like that?

You know the government does clawbacks on the small people all the time. If they find out they've overpaid $50, they come after it. If it was really about the tax payers dollars, they should do an audit on the consultants/construction for starters.

 

[Petjurino]

You know the government does clawbacks on the small people all the time. If they find out they've overpaid $50, they come after it. If it was really about the tax payers dollars, they should do an audit on the consultants/construction for starters.

I don't disagree. And if this arena deal is as bad as some are acting like it is and they feel they need to take money from us, then we don't want to be apart of the arena anymore. Let's see how they city likes it then when it sits empty.

 

[eastwood45789]

Renovating FH was never an option, I don't believe. It was time to move on.

That's laughable. We moved on to a financial disaster that nobody can afford. Freedom Hall should have been renovated.

 

[BPGhost]

Many of the same things Tom has said. The ability to get the students to the game is a big one. Quite frankly as Tom also said, I don't want to be someplace I am not wanted and it's clear that the city, the state, and the arena authority don't want us there. Screw them. I am with Tom on this one. I think we should leave just as he said. Do you not agree? Do you think we should stay? Just curious as to why? Not saying you are wrong as you are obviously entitled to your opinion. I am just curious with all we know and what Tom has told us, why would we as UofL fans want to be in that arena anymore?

Well, the students aren't really the 'majority of the fan base' which is what I was responding to. I think that the majority of the fan base would rather attend a game (regardless of ownership) at the YUM site, given it's proximity to all of the restaurants / bars that surround it. That type of atmosphere would never have occurred around the silo site.

As much as I'm a UofL supporter, I'm a Louisvillian first - so I don't want to see the city or UofL get screwed. I think that TJ's comments are (as was said by another poster) somewhat hyperbolic and a product of those other entities trying to publicly and erroneously, scapegoat the university, and not necessarily how he really feels. If he, and UofL, didn't give a crap about the city, they never would have agreed to go to the downtown site.

This really is simply a case of buyer's remorse on the city's part and they are going about it in a counter productive way. UofL seems willing to help restructure things to help but, it is apparent not if they are going to continue to be publicly vilified.

 

[BPGhost]

That's laughable. We moved on to a financial disaster that nobody can afford. Freedom Hall should have been renovated.

Arenas are never anything but financial disasters - it only is a question of how disastrous. The revitalization of downtown never would have happened without the YUM. Freedom Hall was a dump and horribly located, and moving on from it - to somewhere else - was the right decision.

 

[eastwood45789]

Arenas are never anything but financial disasters - it only is a question of how disastrous. The revitalization of downtown never would have happened without the YUM. Freedom Hall was a dump and horribly located, and moving on from it - to somewhere else - was the right decision.

Keep drinking the kool aid while the revolving doors of tenants continues at 4th Street Live. The TIF funds are way below expectations and bond holders may well get stuck on this. It's becoming a financial disaster. All the while the mayor is trying to increase sales taxes.

 

[zipp]

I'm not as plugged into the sentiments of the average Bailout Arena attendee as I was at The Hall. But Doc Ramsey had what he called "polling data" a decade ago that he would simply tap his breast pocket about. And that "data" must have reflected fan interest in staying at the KFEC or near campus vs. a move downtown.

Never saw the info myself, although I feel it would have been publicized had a real pi$$ing match ensued about U of L moving to Bailout Arena. I've come to adapt to getting to the downtown location which is a stone's throw from where I live. BUT I would have no problem moving to a place that serves U of L's interests better. Downtown Louisville would recover and survive.

Jim Host Redeployed Arena

 

[OmegaCard]

Arenas are never anything but financial disasters - it only is a question of how disastrous. The revitalization of downtown never would have happened without the YUM. Freedom Hall was a dump and horribly located, and moving on from it - to somewhere else - was the right decision.

Downtown was already revitalized before the arena IMO. Let's turn it into a casino and take back all the money going into Indiana. That should solve the problem.

 

[BrakingAnkles]

To be honest, I love the YUM when I have been there. Not a bad seat in the house, but not at the expense of fan experience for a college game. I see the IU vs UNC game and those fans are loud and its about them. Another reason, and I know Zipp will disagree because of the team I am referencing, but an on campus arena will really remove MOST of the UK fans that always get into the YUM because of corporations buying tickets.

I get tired of the "butts on hands" approach to the fans at the YUM that show up on TV. I mean the last home game was close and people were LEAVING before it was over. It looks like no one cheers for anything unless it is just super spectacular. Every made shot, every dunk should be cheered so loud. It's not. I think an on-campus arena might help with this SINGULAR issue.

 

[Petjurino]

To be honest, I love the YUM when I have been there. Not a bad seat in the house, but not at the expense of fan experience for a college game. I see the IU vs UNC game and those fans are loud and its about them. Another reason, and I know Zipp will disagree because of the team I am referencing, but an on campus arena will really remove MOST of the UK fans that always get into the YUM because of corporations buying tickets.

I get tired of the "butts on hands" approach to the fans at the YUM that show up on TV. I mean the last home game was close and people were LEAVING before it was over. It looks like no one cheers for anything unless it is just super spectacular. Every made shot, every dunk should be cheered so loud. It's not. I think an on-campus arena might help with this SINGULAR issue.

That's a great point and probably some of why Tom has wanted and wants so badly to get on campus. I would even like to see the number of seats reduced drastically to make it more of a college environment where everyone is close to the floor. Maybe go to like 14K capacity. I bet that place would be rocking. Even Freedom Hall, though bigger, had the setup of the seats being close to the court. That place could get really loud. Having been to some games at the YUM, it's just not the same. It feels more corporate and less college. It's sort of a lame atmosphere for the most part. You can tell it was set up solely to make money.

 

[CommodoreCard]

The KFC Yum! Center is not even getting the major concerts that sweep through the area. We may get one here or there but most seem to continue to by-pass us. I thought the KFCY!C was supposed to end that. Major acts are still going to Indy, Nashville and Cincinnati but leaving Louisville behind. I certainly know it's not UofL's job to find concerts and other entertainment acts to fill the empty nights at the arena...why hasn't this ever been addressed??

 

[indaville]

You think the majority of our Fanbase would rather be at an arena on the silo site? That seems crazy to me. What do you base that on?

Well the deal is there are thousands of out of state students on campus many do not own or have cars they will not walk 20 something blocks downtown to go to games.That was Tom's issue from the start he was thinking about the students not some 30 40 year old with a full time job and transportation or Louisville residents, personally i don't care as long as they stay away from ring road. But i think if the city is going to try and extract more and more money from Louisville he should tell them to stuff it. Everyone knew from the start that place would lose money but look at all the quality entertainment that is there.Before that place was built we couldn't even get a decent concert in this town. This city is afraid of moving into the 21st century Nashville Indy have NFL football and we are crying about a arena.

 

[indaville]

The KFC Yum! Center is not even getting the major concerts that sweep through the area. We may get one here or there but most seem to continue to by-pass us. I thought the KFCY!C was supposed to end that. Major acts are still going to Indy, Nashville and Cincinnati but leaving Louisville behind. I certainly know it's not UofL's job to find concerts and other entertainment acts to fill the empty nights at the arena...why hasn't this ever been addressed??

I don't agree with that before they built that you would have to go to Cincy Indy Nashville to see a band on tour now they stop here for a tour date I've seen many concerts there since it was built.

 

[glassmanJ]

concerning students attending the game, when i graduated in 96 the students at louisville were split 50/50 between day and night school so half the students couldn't attend most night games anyways. additionally, the ones who did attend were basically from here and lived off campus. now over the last two decades that has radically changed as the focus is on student housing and the on campus experience. when we moved into the yum center, my guess is that there and freedom hall, the student section is less than 20% of the season tickets.
now let's imagine putting an arena on campus and you reduce seating capacity, well to build that arena you need donors and donors get the best most expensive seats. students get the cheap seats. and the more students you now pack into the smaller place the less revenue you generate on ticket sales because students get cheap tickets. you could be taking hundreds of dollars of lost revenue per seat per night. and students don't drink or spend as much on concessions so more lost revenue. maybe they charge more for luxury boxes to compensate. additionally if you take 5,000 seats away them demand goes up and students start selling their tickets instead because the money is too much to resist. sp while option may look better, it may also open up a pandora's box. and personally, i can never envision allowing students to buy cheap tickets at half court while high end donors sit in the rafters.

and in comparison to iu, bloomington is in the middle of bu,m f%ck egypt and there's absolutely nothing to do there for any person living there except iu stuff. in louisville, louisville sports is an option, not the only game in town. plus half our city roots for other teams.

 

[BPGhost]

Well the deal is there are thousands of out of state students on campus many do not own or have cars they will not walk 20 something blocks downtown to go to games.That was Tom's issue from the start he was thinking about the students not some 30 40 year old with a full time job and transportation or Louisville residents, personally i don't care as long as they stay away from ring road. But i think if the city is going to try and extract more and more money from Louisville he should tell them to stuff it. Everyone knew from the start that place would lose money but look at all the quality entertainment that is there.Before that place was built we couldn't even get a decent concert in this town. This city is afraid of moving into the 21st century Nashville Indy have NFL football and we are crying about a arena.

So then why doesn't the University provide transportation for those on campus students that want to go to the games? Problem solved.

 

[BPGhost]

Downtown was already revitalized before the arena IMO. Let's turn it into a casino and take back all the money going into Indiana. That should solve the problem.

NuLu maybe but, I'm pretty sure all of those upscale restaurants and bars surrounding the Yum weren't there. As TJ said - probably no new Omni hotel either.

 

[BPGhost]

Keep drinking the kool aid while the revolving doors of tenants continues at 4th Street Live. The TIF funds are way below expectations and bond holders may well get stuck on this. It's becoming a financial disaster. All the while the mayor is trying to increase sales taxes.

Wasn't even talking about 4th Street Live.

 

[OmegaCard]

NuLu maybe but, I'm pretty sure all of those upscale restaurants and bars surrounding the Yum weren't there. As TJ said - probably no new Omni hotel either.

I used to work and eat down there a lot before the YUM and never had a problem. Plenty of options, Rubys, Oakroom, Z's, Spaghetti, Bistro, Marriot, Bearnos, Cunningham, 4th st... It was just stay east of the CJ between River Rd and Broadway.

 

[flyercard]

I used to work and eat down there a lot before the YUM and never had a problem. Plenty of options, Rubys, Oakroom, Z's, Spaghetti, Bistro, Marriot, Bearnos, Cunningham, 4th st... It was just stay east of the CJ between River Rd and Broadway.

There are many more bars and restaurants now than in Omega Cards time ( I worked downtown for for 40 years). TJ's comments, however, were just for leverage. UL students are not a significant concern. If enough of the the on campus students seriously wanted to come to the games, TARC could provide Derby Day type shuttles to the game site for much less than it costs to drive and pay to park on game days. Also, every year since we moved to the YUM there is a substantial amount of Blue that ends up in the student section. Not blaming the students for taking the money and run, but basing the location of an arena on campus residing students would be a bigger disaster than we have.
Bottom line UL has done all it promised to do when the Yum was built. Scott Cox admits this. Yes, it was a sweetheart deal for UL, but it always was what it is. Was there ever an opportunity for the Yum to financially succeed by renting the site when UL wasn't there? Probably not, or there wouldn't be this uproar about renegotiating the UL contract.
As for the comments of politicians, screw them. Look at how few votes it takes to get elected in Metro districts where there are only one party elections. They couldn't even fill the student section at Yum.

 

[Cardfan1937]

hop, thanks for asking, but I'm just repeating what I've heard and can expect going forward...

I saw the CJ article and heard Jurich address the question a few weeks ago at a booster club function. His answers are mostly the same. Jurich made the remark in early November that the City should "buy out" U of L's contract if they don't want U of L as a tenant--that's how he's interpreting the treatment U of L is receiving. U of L agreed to go downtown when they didn't really want to, and they're not going to be made out as the fall guy.

Here's some tidbits that I heard and can reasonably conclude:

• Jurich is posturing to some extent with his present comments. But I think his real issue is that no one can come to grips with how much money is needed. The metaphor I've used is that he isn't jumping into a money pit that he can't see the bottom of.

• The amount of money we'll soon hear to stem the red ink will low-ball the real amount needed. Arena operations fall short of funding expenses to the tune of $20+ million annually. And there will be pressure to raise money as long as that deficit exists.

• At the club function, Jurich also referred to a hotel and convention center on the silo property. He's both ratcheting up the stakes--competing with the City for other business--and progressing his thinking beyond just men's basketball. And who shouldn't take him seriously?

• Bailout Arena has also taught U of L some things... They have a better handle on how many seats and suites they can sell. And they know how NOT to design a new arena from a fan experience standpoint. Both of those would lead IMO to a scaled-down, larger footprint arena at the silo property.

• In a real pi$$ing match, the bondholders are the ones with the most to lose. The City's and U of L's financial liabilities are limited to nonexistent. Of course, the City doesn't want to see a bankruptcy and voided contracts with U of L and the sponsors.

None of this is surprising, and the tone will get more acrimonious before it improves. Ultimately, there may be some type of arena kumbaya, but I wouldn't make that bet. And although I'll hate seeing it, I still maintain that arena was built to someday attract an NBA team to Louisville...

 

[Cal4Pres.]

I don't follow this issue as closely as you guys obviously, but what would the outcome be in the case of bankruptcy? Not as much for the bond holders, but for UofL and the Bball teams?

 

[zipp]

I don't follow this issue as closely as you guys obviously, but what would the outcome be in the case of bankruptcy? Not as much for the bond holders, but for UofL and the Bball teams?

A bankruptcy judge would have the option to cancel all existing contracts, not much different from other bankruptcies. Likeliest outcome is that the bondholders take over ownership and try to cut better deals with the existing arena clients.

Or perhaps a potential client like an NBA owner.

Jim Host NBA Arena

 

[flyercard]

A bankruptcy judge would have the option to cancel all existing contracts, not much different from other bankruptcies. Likeliest outcome is that the bondholders take over ownership and try to cut better deals with the existing arena clients.

Or perhaps a potential client like an NBA owner.

Jim Host NBA Arena

What entity would be filing for reorganization?

 

[zipp]

What entity would be filing for reorganization?

The LAA would be the one bankrupted. Negative net assets/worth which is where it's headed although not quite there yet. And you say "reorganization" which implies renegotiated contracts; otherwise, it's liquidation and change of ownership. I don't think a judge can require new contracts, maybe just something tried...