We give Jeff another year. That’s all.
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As I've put in another thread, the issue is a lot of the same with how Bobby ran his teams. Jeff is a HC that's fully focused on calling plays and running the offense. If he's focused on offense, the defense just isn't going to be his focus. He fully relies on his DC to make the calls and run the show.
His thought is that if he fires English, then you've fired the head coach of the defense. Jeff himself probably sees that he'd have to focus more on defense and it would add more work to his plate because no one on offense is running the show. He's not passing off work to Brian Brohm or McGee. I personally don't think firing English will change anything other than making the fans happier, but it likely won't lead to better results.
Mark Hagen would be the DC and he's been locked in with English since he was brought back to Purdue. This defensive staff are the people Ron English wants, so it will operate the same.
Fire him after the season is likely the smart move.
You're likely confused, we won the Russell Athletic Bowl in 2013, which was the year we lost 1 game to UCF.
In 2012, we lost 2 games and honestly had some pretty bad performances against some bad teams. UConn and Cuse were losses. And some way to close for comfort wins against some bad teams like FIU, Southern Miss, and USF. That team really just hit another gear in the month before the Sugar Bowl, because that team in the regular season wasn't that dominant. The Sugar Bowl team that took the field was great, but the full 2012 season wasn't our best team at all.
The Stanford loss wasn't a talent issue. Brohm failed to properly prepare his team, which, he took all the blame. I'm not expecting undefeated seasons. I'm expecting sustaining momentum. There was very real positive momentum heading into the Stanford game. Brohm blew it.
UofL football isn't the only sport where we're at a disadvantage from a NIL perspective. Walz has a $500K NIL budget. He just took an L to UK. Their NIL budget for women's basketball: $1.3M. So, while that sucks, it's not fair, I'm not going to turn my fan card in and find a new hobby because the landscape has changed. Feel free, though.
The UofL Sugar Bowl team isn't arguably the best team ever. There have been many great teams. However, beating Florida in the Sugar is undoubtedly one of the program's finest wins. The two losses you refer to, which, I'm not sure why that's relevant, Teddy was banged up big time in the UCONN game. He got knocked out of the game twice, which then led to his legendary and heroic performance at Rutgers the following week, that clinched a BCS bid.
First, you make it sound like Lacy was a program issue when in fact it could be just an individual issue. Just because they sign up to play for U of L doesn't mean they don't have flaws. We don't really personally know these kids even when they're here 3 or 4 years (I know thats true about Terrence Williams).
Secondly, some pundits will say that Brohm's first year back was the anomaly. No Clemson and no FSU on the schedule. Yes, we beat a 10th rank ND, ranked Duke team and a subpar Miami team but ended up with a 3 game losing streak.
For the record, not advocating for firing Jeff, but want to see some real changes made, not cosmetic ones.
Jeff needs to change, but I'd also say "Who else?"
A 35 year old Will Stein isn't a savior. We know what Jeff can do in the right circumstance, but anyone else could be a risk.
We could get someone like a Krag or a Satterfield again. Charlie Strong? I mean Charlie could work, but remember Charlie never coached in a P5 league. We wouldn't have made a bowl his first 2 years had we been in the ACC under Charlie and wouldn't have been sniffing a BCS bowl or ranked in 2012 either. Would we have been as patient with Charlie to build the momentum for 2013?
I said with Satt and I'll say with Jeff too, we have to define our expectations. We fire Jeff and we can't just expect a big turnaround and go back to Bobby 1.0 or Charlie in the Big East and AAC. We are playing tougher teams than we ever have before in our history. Saturday's loss is inexcusable, but talking about firing him?
I just ask, who is this guy who will come in and be way better? We aren't a destination school for HCs. We've only hired mid major and coordinators before this who are on their way up, Jeff wanted to be here and he's the first proven guy since Howard who also wanted to be here.
Because we can't compare the program to 2004--2006 or 2010-2013. It's a new age. Not to mention, the SEC and Big Ten have such financial advantages in terms of coaching and staff salaries that will make it even harder here.
A 35 year old Will Stein isn't a savior. We know what Jeff can do in the right circumstance, but anyone else could be a risk.
We could get someone like a Krag or a Satterfield again. Charlie Strong? I mean Charlie could work, but remember Charlie never coached in a P5 league. We wouldn't have made a bowl his first 2 years had we been in the ACC under Charlie and wouldn't have been sniffing a BCS bowl or ranked in 2012 either. Would we have been as patient with Charlie to build the momentum for 2013?
I said with Satt and I'll say with Jeff too, we have to define our expectations. We fire Jeff and we can't just expect a big turnaround and go back to Bobby 1.0 or Charlie in the Big East and AAC. We are playing tougher teams than we ever have before in our history. Saturday's loss is inexcusable, but talking about firing him?
I just ask, who is this guy who will come in and be way better? We aren't a destination school for HCs. We've only hired mid major and coordinators before this who are on their way up, Jeff wanted to be here and he's the first proven guy since Howard who also wanted to be here.
Because we can't compare the program to 2004--2006 or 2010-2013. It's a new age. Not to mention, the SEC and Big Ten have such financial advantages in terms of coaching and staff salaries that will make it even harder here.
I am still struggling with people being upset with the offense. They are averaging 32 points in their losses. The issue isn’t offense or his play calling. Now I do think it is plausible his role has playing calling has impacted his ability to manage the defense.
To be honest his messaging when he talks
about the defense is confusing. They want to be aggressive but have to be careful not to be too aggressive. It is like they are trying to thread a needle. For a head coach to want to be aggressive and for them to play conservative is weird. Doesn’t seem like they are close to being on the same page. Some of this is because when they have been aggressive they always miss assignments. To me that is all on the coaching staff.
To be honest his messaging when he talks
about the defense is confusing. They want to be aggressive but have to be careful not to be too aggressive. It is like they are trying to thread a needle. For a head coach to want to be aggressive and for them to play conservative is weird. Doesn’t seem like they are close to being on the same page. Some of this is because when they have been aggressive they always miss assignments. To me that is all on the coaching staff.
The losses to weak teams are relevant because those outcomes show you can and do lose to anybody, because even some of your top teams do not have overwhelming talent. UCONN went 5-7 that year.
You claim you don't need undefeated seasons yet after winning 10 games for the 1st time as an ACC member and reaching the title game for the first time you created a thread saying the Honeymoon is over. Now this.
He's taking you places you've never been in 1.5 years.
You want your wins, and you want 11 or 12 of them, which we''ve never done as an ACC member. You made it clear 10 isn't good enough for you.
I don't want to lose to Stanford, crap Pitt, crap UCONN, FIU, Marshall, or any other hot garbage team we've ever lost against, but it goes with the territory of being a UofL football fan.
And you demand these 11-12 win seasons while running low on NIL and resources as a city college. It's illogical.
I'll be at the PITT game I don't need a new hobby.
Good luck.
You’re were correct! I think one of them was after the new year and the site I checked didn’t take that into account!
2012 Louisville Cardinals football team - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
Actually, it's more than emotional talk, it is lunacy! Anyway, no excuses for this loss. However, Jeff is going to be here for a long time. And short some total meltdown. This type of talk is ridiculous for the middle of the second season. If we finish 7-5, that will be a mediocre season full of what ifs! Beat Pitt, and UK finish 8-4, with a win over your rival will be a GOOD season. Capping it with a Bowl Win would be a Very Good season. Having Jeff 19-8 winning 2/3 of his games overall. Sets the stage for Year 3, which in the Old Way thinking in college football would be thought of your breakout year.
In the new College football, with NIL, Paying players, and the portal. Year 3 is in uncharted territory. No denying things have changed! In my mind as a Coach, and Player. Jeff has always been a Winner, Fierce Competitor, Survivor, and Innovator. He knows how adapt to changing environments. Typically, he gets the most of his players, and the talent he coaches. Never heard one former player ever bad mouth him? If you have type it now on the Board and prove it! He knows more about football, coaching young people, and adapting than anyone typing on this keyboard! I trust him to figure things out! Go Cards beat Pitt!
You are correct and my memory isn’t what it used to be
!The site that I was looking at didn’t take the new years into account
It’s so weird because we always think 2013 Year of the Cardinal, but forget the football season was 2012.You are correct and my memory isn’t what it used to be
The site that I was looking at didn’t take the new years into account
Yea he needs a Pet Talk from Josh Heird LOL!! Yea Heird is Real Football guy! Knows more about football then Jeff!! How abot this from Heird! :" Tough loss Coach. I have all the confidence in your ability to fix any issues and win games! Let's go out and finish strong!! I got your back!! " If you consider that a Pep talk, then yea great! But if you think Heird needs to say more than two sentences, well let's just say you would be wrong!
Many of these points have merit and some not as much, but the overall view is there's still something in the way of Louisville football maintaining success.
Last season we had a tremendous defense and a so so offense. One can imagine how much better the season would have been with Shough over Plummer?
This season we have a strong offense and a so so defense. One can wonder would we still have four losses if we had last years defense?
I've been saying lately I'm concerned it's Brohm trying to be both OC and HC, but maybe that's his calling and something he just couldn't imagine not doing. He would probably prefer the OC if he had to choose only one.
I believe as it often does, it comes down to a NFL level QB that will get a team through bad defensive games or uneven officiating and coaching mistakes and still get the win.
I like Tyler Shough but he's limited at the QB position. He's a typical Georgia or Michigan type QB, who has five star linemen protecting him.
If Louisville had let's say a Jordan Travis this season, the team would probably have just one loss. Brohm needs a dual threat QB with passing being his best talent. Don't want a RB playing QB.
The shaky defense would still be around but the offense would be putting games away by the 3rd quarter. Brohm's playcalling would be much more creative using the QB as a running threat.
I hope if he once again goes for a portal transfer, it will be a duel threat QB. There are several candidates out there.
I for one would prefer to be lamenting a Cards performance on these boards after an unimpressive win, than an ugly loss like we just witnessed.
For the Cards to actually contend for a national championship, Brohm will however have to hire a top DC and other defensive coaches.
Last season we had a tremendous defense and a so so offense. One can imagine how much better the season would have been with Shough over Plummer?
This season we have a strong offense and a so so defense. One can wonder would we still have four losses if we had last years defense?
I've been saying lately I'm concerned it's Brohm trying to be both OC and HC, but maybe that's his calling and something he just couldn't imagine not doing. He would probably prefer the OC if he had to choose only one.
I believe as it often does, it comes down to a NFL level QB that will get a team through bad defensive games or uneven officiating and coaching mistakes and still get the win.
I like Tyler Shough but he's limited at the QB position. He's a typical Georgia or Michigan type QB, who has five star linemen protecting him.
If Louisville had let's say a Jordan Travis this season, the team would probably have just one loss. Brohm needs a dual threat QB with passing being his best talent. Don't want a RB playing QB.
The shaky defense would still be around but the offense would be putting games away by the 3rd quarter. Brohm's playcalling would be much more creative using the QB as a running threat.
I hope if he once again goes for a portal transfer, it will be a duel threat QB. There are several candidates out there.
I for one would prefer to be lamenting a Cards performance on these boards after an unimpressive win, than an ugly loss like we just witnessed.
For the Cards to actually contend for a national championship, Brohm will however have to hire a top DC and other defensive coaches.
And you demand these 11-12 win seasons while running low on NIL and resources as a city college. It's illogical.
I agree Louisville isn’t in a position geographically or conference wise to recruit at a level where they can consistently win 10-11 games. They are going to have years where they win 10-11 games but to expect it year in and year out is not logical. The other part that isn’t logical for us to believe they can flawlessly live in the free agent market. No one is immune from missing on guys in the portal. Down years will occur because no evaluation process is perfect.
Last thing on why they need a change on defense. They significantly misevaluated their talent on defense. They misevaluated the players ability to absorb their schemes. You can’t go through spring ball and fall ball not knowing guys didn’t have the aptitude or skill to run your schemes. How do you get 3-4 games in and have to dial it back? How do you come out of spring and fall glowing about your defensive roster when it is just the opposite? The whole defensive process is off from recruiting to development to execution.
I agree Louisville isn’t in a position geographically or conference wise to recruit at a level where they can consistently win 10-11 games. They are going to have years where they win 10-11 games but to expect it year in and year out is not logical. The other part that isn’t logical for us to believe they can flawlessly live in the free agent market. No one is immune from missing on guys in the portal. Down years will occur because no evaluation process is perfect.
Last thing on why they need a change on defense. They significantly misevaluated their talent on defense. They misevaluated the players ability to absorb their schemes. You can’t go through spring ball and fall ball not knowing guys didn’t have the aptitude or skill to run your schemes. How do you get 3-4 games in and have to dial it back? How do you come out of spring and fall glowing about your defensive roster when it is just the opposite? The whole defensive process is off from recruiting to development to execution.
I didn't remember the Syracuse game honestly. But I remembered UCONN. And Syracuse wasn't bad, they won 8 that year and were pretty tough at home.
I have to believe there will be a shakeup on the defensive staff this summer yeah. I think they need to get some dudes up front. Somehow.
We knew Stanford had good WR coming in. I think the margins are so thin in this sport some of these results that blow people's minds aren't all that shocking.
The main point is the high-level programs can get away with not playing well on some days, and still win, sometimes with ease. It's how they cruise to their 9+ wins most years.
The big question for this program is if it can stay relevant with the new landscape, and how they stack up with NIL feels concerning. It's really all about the SEC and the B10, it's quite a task.
So it then comes down to what you need as a fan. All I'm saying is if you need to be a T10 team or in the hunt for that every year you need a new hobby.
I think they have to try to find a dynamic guy on one of these SEC schools that can bring players and can recruit. The guy may not even be a DC. Kind of like Brown at Syracuse. He wasn’t a DC but highly respected. Maybe a young NFL guy. Jim Leonard is interesting. Dude can coach. DB coach for Broncos, who have a a legit secondary. Colorado has made tremendous improvements on defense. A young NFL guy. This is where Sanders NFL connections came through for him.
Brohm will have to get creative and make a risky but educated hire. His isn’t going to be able to lure away a SEC or Big Ten DC.
Here’s my 2 cents for some quick thoughts
1. Discipline, Discipline, Discipline
2. Communication especially on Defense
3. Ron English has to go
4. J.Brohm needs to give Brian the Waffle House menu at least for organization reasons,
and have Jeff make the final call of course.
5. Overall depth
1. Discipline, Discipline, Discipline
2. Communication especially on Defense
3. Ron English has to go
4. J.Brohm needs to give Brian the Waffle House menu at least for organization reasons,
and have Jeff make the final call of course.
5. Overall depth
The offense had a FR walk on making catches at BC when we were in hot water.
Huggins Bruce was buried on the S. Carolina depth chart played alot for us this yr.
True FR RB backed up by other young guys.
The QB cannot run for a first down.
Lose Thompson early. Lacy takes a hike.
It's rather surprising this team has had a chance to win every game in the 4th Q.
Fire him.
It's because the big bowl win was in 2013. Had we played in a December bowl game and beaten a Wake Forest or Missouri, there may have never been a 2013, year of the Cardinals movement.
But after the men won the championship and the women made the final 4 and the baseball team made the world series, the big bowl win in January of 2013, just fit perfectly.
Little did CardNation know that the shit was about to hit the fan and two of the big programs would hit rock bottom.
Ridiculous take. Nobody’s getting fired. Who would come here? We fire an alumnus and hometown guy after two years, who has a winning ACC record and won 10 games last year? Really? This job would be a no fly zone for any decent coach. Moreover, we can’t afford such a move, and it would be unlikely that we could do better. It was a bad loss. Let’s see how they do vs Pitt.
You missed his point. We are playing with average talent and competing. He was kidding about firing Brohm. He is poking the people that want him fired if he struggles next year.
wow, i'm glad you aren't a coach of anything or anyone, just give up and resign to being weak and worthless because other's have better resources. With that attitude all but about 20 teams should fold up shop, why try it you are doomed to failure. That is a horrible attitude to go through life with, if you aren't born into a rich family just resign to be poor your entire life. If you aren't big and strong just give up and lay on the sofa, no reason to work hard and get stronger. If you have a disability just give up and don't even try.
UofL has always been the underdog and had less than others. Look at what Denny inherited when he arrived here, Crawford gym and Miller Hall. But thank God he had the ambition and drive to work hard and overcome the obstacles in his way.
Howard came here when we were practicing in a field at the fairgrounds that cars parked on. Even had some gravel sprinkled in. We had nothing, ready to fold the program, BUT he had the vision and drive to build a "middling program" that beat Alabama like a drum.
Nah lets just give up
I think the thrill of that next goal and that next mountain kept us excited for years, we climbed many steps and we kept knocking down every door. But we've reached a point where that next step we want isn't as easy.
I'll say this over and over, the team we had in 2022 would've dominated in the old Big East and CUSA the way the 2004 and 2006 teams did in my opinion. The 2023 team would've been considered the best ever playing in those leagues. We're in a better league now and it's harder to compare.
When it was Howard coming in, we had nothing and just a good coach and a little more funding. It was easier to break down that door.
We got to the CUSA and we were the team with better fans and energy. I mean compared to Cincy, Southern Miss, Tulane, ECU, and Memphis we could just kick them down. We took advantage of our big non-conference games.
Then the Big East. We were the team that had 50k fans that could show up. We were the team putting power conference money into our facilities and coaching salaries. We were a power conference team and we could beat SEC, ACC, Big 12, etc. teams. We showed we were just a step ahead of those type of teams. We came into the ACC with a great roster. We easily showed we could rise above programs like Cuse, BC, Wake, Duke, etc. and get into that next tier. We got Lamar Jackson and it got us in that conversation for a brief time. We reached that high and we thought it would always be this easy.
But to reach that next tier, it's not as easy. Because chasing those elite programs shows a difference, but also when you have programs like NC State, Pitt, UNC, & Virginia Tech right there with you it's not as easy to break free as it was against Southern Miss, Tulane, Memphis, UConn, and South Florida.
We compare it to years when "I remember blowing the doors off teams in 2004, 2006, and 2013! We need to go back to that!" But then you start thinking about how this team likely would be having the same if not regular results. At that time we only dreamed of a power conference team going to a title game or winning 8 games against a ACC schedule. But now that it's here, we're not as impressed because we used to dominate at our level. The 2023 Cards would've easily done what the 2006 Cards did in my opinion (factoring in that Michael Bush was not healthy) and they would've clearly been better than the 2012 Cards who struggled a lot of that year.
And then there's Kentucky. That was the original door to break down. And when we arrived on the scene in 1994 to play them, they were not the program they are today. They didn't invest in their program. They didn't recruit well. They were essentially a CUSA to Big East team talent wise playing in the SEC. And we smoked them at times and made it look easy. We've seen them have a good run against us and compare it to the old days of laying them down, but they have top 25-30 recruiting classes now and fund their program like a SEC school. So that comparison is harder too. John L, Bobby, and Charlie never faced Kentucky teams this talented. They aren't as good as they think they are, but they're far from those loser they were win Ron Cooper smashed them.
It's just hard for a program that reached our heights and always moved up to reach that level where it's one of those "impossible" steps to get us to pull away from the middle of the ACC and close to being with the blue bloods most years. We're really good. We're going to bowls and in the conference title race in a power league. We've always become the top dog and always rose up, but when you're not consistently getting top 10-15 classes and building a steady roster, it just is hard to have those kind of seasons regularly in a league like the ACC.
I'll say this over and over, the team we had in 2022 would've dominated in the old Big East and CUSA the way the 2004 and 2006 teams did in my opinion. The 2023 team would've been considered the best ever playing in those leagues. We're in a better league now and it's harder to compare.
When it was Howard coming in, we had nothing and just a good coach and a little more funding. It was easier to break down that door.
We got to the CUSA and we were the team with better fans and energy. I mean compared to Cincy, Southern Miss, Tulane, ECU, and Memphis we could just kick them down. We took advantage of our big non-conference games.
Then the Big East. We were the team that had 50k fans that could show up. We were the team putting power conference money into our facilities and coaching salaries. We were a power conference team and we could beat SEC, ACC, Big 12, etc. teams. We showed we were just a step ahead of those type of teams. We came into the ACC with a great roster. We easily showed we could rise above programs like Cuse, BC, Wake, Duke, etc. and get into that next tier. We got Lamar Jackson and it got us in that conversation for a brief time. We reached that high and we thought it would always be this easy.
But to reach that next tier, it's not as easy. Because chasing those elite programs shows a difference, but also when you have programs like NC State, Pitt, UNC, & Virginia Tech right there with you it's not as easy to break free as it was against Southern Miss, Tulane, Memphis, UConn, and South Florida.
We compare it to years when "I remember blowing the doors off teams in 2004, 2006, and 2013! We need to go back to that!" But then you start thinking about how this team likely would be having the same if not regular results. At that time we only dreamed of a power conference team going to a title game or winning 8 games against a ACC schedule. But now that it's here, we're not as impressed because we used to dominate at our level. The 2023 Cards would've easily done what the 2006 Cards did in my opinion (factoring in that Michael Bush was not healthy) and they would've clearly been better than the 2012 Cards who struggled a lot of that year.
And then there's Kentucky. That was the original door to break down. And when we arrived on the scene in 1994 to play them, they were not the program they are today. They didn't invest in their program. They didn't recruit well. They were essentially a CUSA to Big East team talent wise playing in the SEC. And we smoked them at times and made it look easy. We've seen them have a good run against us and compare it to the old days of laying them down, but they have top 25-30 recruiting classes now and fund their program like a SEC school. So that comparison is harder too. John L, Bobby, and Charlie never faced Kentucky teams this talented. They aren't as good as they think they are, but they're far from those loser they were win Ron Cooper smashed them.
It's just hard for a program that reached our heights and always moved up to reach that level where it's one of those "impossible" steps to get us to pull away from the middle of the ACC and close to being with the blue bloods most years. We're really good. We're going to bowls and in the conference title race in a power league. We've always become the top dog and always rose up, but when you're not consistently getting top 10-15 classes and building a steady roster, it just is hard to have those kind of seasons regularly in a league like the ACC.
Uh, I was being sarcastic dude. In fact, I've made about 10 posts in this thread supporting him.
Yeah, sorry but apparently my post got misunderstood.
The point was you can't be great every year given the challenges the program has. And I was just pointing out some of the challenges.
I never said give up. I said fans need to find perspective.
Hopefully that's cleared up.
I'm not sure if you heard, but UofL is a state funded university. The "city college" is no more. Now, we happen to be a university that resides in a city, but that's every university.
You're beginning to put words in my mouth. That's a no-no. I didn't say 10 wins isn't good enough. All I've said is the Stanford loss is inexcusable, and failing to maintain momentum is a problem. I also didn't say the honeymoon is over. I said he'll get a third year. Next season will be critical in order to fully prove himself. More dog shit losses to bad teams, yeah, I don't think a 4th year is warranted. Closing strong this year will be critical, as well.
You're the one who said "find a new hobby."
I love Jeff, no question about it, but the honeymoon is over.
To go 0-3 to close the season, I won't exactly say "unexcusable," but it's pretty GD embarrassing. If you take a step back and look at the big picture, maybe, hopefully, this will turn out to be a good thing. It has been a love fest, after all. Jeff keeps saying he doesn't like to let anyone...
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