Urinal Headline

[BigBlueFanGA]

The title is purely factual and it comes from the NCAA page on eligibility. Progress towards a degree is their title for maintaining eligibility. To be eligible, you must show "progress towards a degree."
http://www.ncaa.org/about/division-i-academic-eligibility
The text in the link above reads: "Student-athletes at a Division I school must meet specific academic benchmarks, called progress-toward-degree requirements, to continue competing." Again, straight from the people who set the standards. If you can show an NCAA source that says the must enroll in 12 credits, then I will believe you. The NCAA does not benefit from hiding such information; they would want to make it public.

Furthermore, enroll in 12 and pass 6 is an absolute and obvious farce. You can enroll in 12 and pass 6 easily, just don't show up to class for 6 of them, or show up sporadically and turn in half-ass assignments. if you go to the NBA, the following year, no big deal. If you realize you can't, then you go to summer school and earn grades for those 6 classes you didn't complete or failed out of.

Answer this: if you only pass 6 in a semester, and summer school doesn't count, how do you earn the minimum of 18 hours to continue to the next year? My answer is simple: if you plan on leaving at the end of the year, it doesn't matter.

Still, you have forgotten my original point that triggered this rabbit hole of a discussion: Cal's "best for the kids" line is a bunch of B.S. It is all spin to sell his program. He has said repeatedly how he "helped all of those kids" by getting them to the NBA. If that is the goal, then doing the minimum to stay eligible is all that is needed, all the while they get pampered in the coal lodge.

Sure, here take go. With all your deflections I'm sure you won't like this either.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAMegQICRAB&usg=AOvVaw1Pl40Gup2lsxsRoDJO1Zda


You may want to read 14.1.8.1 although at this point I think you struggle to admit you're wrong.
https://web3.ncaa.org/lsdbi/search/bylawView?id=23028

I think that concludes this subject.

 

[CommodoreCard]

Leave it to Louisville fans to have the most sickening college sports scandal maybe ever and try to convince themselves that Kentucky players only take six hours.

I wonder how long I would last on a Ky Board (like I'd want to post there anyway) if I posted some BS like this? Hopefully the ice is getting thin, thin, thin for this one.

 

[cardfaninmemphis]

You keep trying to make fun of my reading, and yet you did not even read what you posted.

Both of those links are Division III, not Division I.

I will quote from the NCAA page about Div III academics:
"Academics are the primary focus for Division III student-athletes. The division minimizes the conflicts between athletics and academics and keeps student-athletes on a path to graduation through shorter practice and playing seasons, the number of contests, no redshirting and regional competition that reduces time away from academic studies. Student-athletes are integrated on campus and treated like all other members of the general student-body, keeping them focused on being a student first."

The NCAA actually has divided their eligibility center set up in which DI and DII are separated from DIII. I would explore this further to show how irrelevant your links are, but I would actually have to register on this site, and I am too old for that.
https://web3.ncaa.org/ecwr3/

The only thing settled here is that you cannot read what you link here.

 

[cardfaninmemphis]

Here is another example of the minimum to stay eligible. Notice here that you don't even have to pass the second semester because the season ends before the semester ends. Being enrolled is like saying, "I can write you a check; I still have plenty of those." (note to millennials, ask your parents what a check is)
http://www.wbur.org/onlyagame/2015/03/07/nba-cba-basketball-college-draft

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

Here is another example of the minimum to stay eligible. Notice here that you don't even have to pass the second semester because the season ends before the semester ends. Being enrolled is like saying, "I can write you a check; I still have plenty of those." (note to millennials, ask your parents what a check is)
http://www.wbur.org/onlyagame/2015/03/07/nba-cba-basketball-college-draft

You are something else. 14.1.8.1 applies to all 3 divisions. Here, if you must be fed something that only refers to D1.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/AMA/compliance_forms/DI/DI%20Summary%20of%20NCAA%20Regulations.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjD0ZDDk4fYAhVOPN8KHRjhBzgQFjACegQICBAB&usg=AOvVaw0CC8E2d9KjGmPlMjeUpkCb
As for your idea that you could just not complete the second semester, sure, if you want to mess up your APR. Ours is perfect for 4 years running .

 

[ThroughBlue]

I wonder how long I would last on a Ky Board (like I'd want to post there anyway) if I posted some BS like this? Hopefully the ice is getting thin, thin, thin for this one.

What part of my post bothers you so much?

I enjoy reading and conversing on here with you guys and I think Steelers does a great job of allowing conversation on this home board.

FYI idk if you’ve been banned from RR or even if you care but once the boards switched everyone was unbanned from every home board

 

[CommodoreCard]

What part of my post bothers you so much?

I enjoy reading and conversing on here with you guys and I think Steelers does a great job of allowing conversation on this home board.

FYI idk if you’ve been banned from RR or even if you care but once the boards switched everyone was unbanned from every home board

I have no desire to post on a Ky anything, call a Ky radio show, watch Ky on TV.

 

[BPGhost]

What part of my post bothers you so much?

I enjoy reading and conversing on here with you guys and I think Steelers does a great job of allowing conversation on this home board.

FYI idk if you’ve been banned from RR or even if you care but once the boards switched everyone was unbanned from every home board

Fake news

 

[cardfaninmemphis]

You are something else. 14.1.8.1 applies to all 3 divisions. Here, if you must be fed something that only refers to D1.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/AMA/compliance_forms/DI/DI%20Summary%20of%20NCAA%20Regulations.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjD0ZDDk4fYAhVOPN8KHRjhBzgQFjACegQICBAB&usg=AOvVaw0CC8E2d9KjGmPlMjeUpkCb
As for your idea that you could just not complete the second semester, sure, if you want to mess up your APR. Ours is perfect for 4 years running .

Now, you do realize that being enrolled in and actively participating in are not the same thing. I hope so because I have written this frequently. Furthermore, you will see that, in the document you posted, they do not have to have 24 credits to start their sophomore year.

It does not mess your APR; you are still eligible if you don't complete the class. You can actually receive a rating of incomplete instead of a letter grade, and it won't affect either the GPA or APR. You have one year to finish an incomplete or it turns into an F. But, if you do nothing, the change happens after one year, the APR has already been calculated, you are playing pro basketball somewhere and don't need eligibility.

Furthermore, the idea of not completing the second semester wasn't my idea; it came from the President of a D1 University and former chair of the NCAA Div 1 Board of Directors. Yet you think he would make that statement without understanding the impact on APR or GPA.

I will agree with you that I am something else: I not a naive person, nor am I one who drank the kool-aid.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

Now, you do realize that being enrolled in and actively participating in are not the same thing. I hope so because I have written this frequently. Furthermore, you will see that, in the document you posted, they do not have to have 24 credits to start their sophomore year.

It does not mess your APR; you are still eligible if you don't complete the class. You can actually receive a rating of incomplete instead of a letter grade, and it won't affect either the GPA or APR. You have one year to finish an incomplete or it turns into an F. But, if you do nothing, the change happens after one year, the APR has already been calculated, you are playing pro basketball somewhere and don't need eligibility.

Furthermore, the idea of not completing the second semester wasn't my idea; it came from the President of a D1 University and former chair of the NCAA Div 1 Board of Directors. Yet you think he would make that statement without understanding the impact on APR or GPA.

I will agree with you that I am something else: I not a naive person, nor am I one who drank the kool-aid.

Wow, do you guys claim this one? Please provide a link to this idea from a President of a D1 school.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

Now, you do realize that being enrolled in and actively participating in are not the same thing. I hope so because I have written this frequently. Furthermore, you will see that, in the document you posted, they do not have to have 24 credits to start their sophomore year.

It does not mess your APR; you are still eligible if you don't complete the class. You can actually receive a rating of incomplete instead of a letter grade, and it won't affect either the GPA or APR. You have one year to finish an incomplete or it turns into an F. But, if you do nothing, the change happens after one year, the APR has already been calculated, you are playing pro basketball somewhere and don't need eligibility.

Furthermore, the idea of not completing the second semester wasn't my idea; it came from the President of a D1 University and former chair of the NCAA Div 1 Board of Directors. Yet you think he would make that statement without understanding the impact on APR or GPA.

I will agree with you that I am something else: I not a naive person, nor am I one who drank the kool-aid.

At this point I really just think you're trolling but it's an informative exercise so I'll continue. Here is APR from the horses mouth. http://www.ncaa.org/aboutresources/research/academic-progress-rate-explained

So, I've proven to you that all players must take at least 12 hours per semester. I just proved that all players must finish a semester to get that APR point and I've proven that every player must make the required progress towards a degree to get their other APR point. I also proved that the Scholarship players for UK must average roughly a 2.5 gpa to maintain close to or above a team average of 3.0.

An incomplete does affect APR if it is not satisfied promptly. It would affect progress and therefore affect eligibility. https://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/2014-15 APP Manual with Appendices 11-17-14.pdf

Do you have another swing you want to take?

 

[CommodoreCard]

I've never known CardfaninMemphis to "troll" anyone. He is one of this boards most level headed and knowlegable members.

Another example of a Kentucky fan on here whose leash has gotten way too long.

Time to, how does Postel put it? Wipe the slate clean....

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

I've never known CardfaninMemphis to "troll" anyone. He is one of this boards most level headed and knowlegable members.

Another example of a Kentucky fan on here whose leash has gotten way too long.

Time to, how does Postel put it? Wipe the slate clean....

I haven't been disrespectful in any way, I certainly haven't violated board rules. He is welcome to continue this if he wishes. He has been wrong at every turn. That isn't my fault, it's his.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

I've never known CardfaninMemphis to "troll" anyone. He is one of this boards most level headed and knowlegable members.

Another example of a Kentucky fan on here whose leash has gotten way too long.

Time to, how does Postel put it? Wipe the slate clean....

I haven't been disrespectful in any way, I certainly haven't violated board rules. He is welcome to continue this if he wishes. He has been wrong at every turn. That isn't my fault, it's his.

 

[CommodoreCard]

I haven't been disrespectful in any way, I certainly haven't violated board rules. He is welcome to continue this if he wishes. He has been wrong at every turn. That isn't my fault, it's his.

You ain't right. Fake UK news.

 

[cardfaninmemphis]

Wow, do you guys claim this one? Please provide a link to this idea from a President of a D1 school.

The most recent link that I posted was an interview with the President of Wake Forrest University, who was a former chair of the NCAA Div 1 Board of Directors. In the interview, HE made the statement about basketball players not completing the year after the season was over. All of that is spelled out in that interview.

Just so we are clear, I am not saying the UK breaks academic rules, I am saying that they use all of the loopholes to do be able to as little academically as possible, and then spin it to make it look like they are doing something great while pampering them. To me, teaching people how to use loopholes to their advantage is not best for them. It teaches being self-centered and how to say one thing to someone and do the other. However, after the UNC, ruling, I don have a whole lot of faith in the NCAA's sincerity about academic standards.

Taking 12 credits and finishing the semester to get the APR point does not mean that they pass all of them, or even have to try to pass. The rules in the links you posted show that they have to have earned 18 credits in the academic year to be eligible for the next year. 12 + 12 = 24, not 18.
But, lets say you aren't about to pass, and, while you planned to go to the NBA, the scouts say you aren't ready for it. All you have to do is take an incomplete in the class, and you have one year to make up the work, according UK policy.
I notice in the 246 page document you posted, it does tell us that an incomplete does count towards your grade and team GPA if not satisfied. Although, that 246 page document you cited includes an example of a men's basketball player completing a course in the Summer term in order to be earn the APR eligibility point for that year and, thus, be eligible for the following year, which some of your other links say Is not allowed. I wonder if your 246 page document, dated 2010, is no longer current.

Lastly, you claimed that the men's basketball team earns a 3.0 GPA. Now, after I found out their GPA for the last two terms, you are claiming that they earn a 2.5-3.0.

Feel free to keep this going if you want to. I have a feeling that we are both too stubborn to quit, and it will keep going until one of us, or a mod, gets sick of it.

 

[cardfaninmemphis]

I've never known CardfaninMemphis to "troll" anyone. He is one of this boards most level headed and knowlegable members.

Another example of a Kentucky fan on here whose leash has gotten way too long.

Time to, how does Postel put it? Wipe the slate clean....

Thanks for the props!

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

The most recent link that I posted was an interview with the President of Wake Forrest University, who was a former chair of the NCAA Div 1 Board of Directors. In the interview, HE made the statement about basketball players not completing the year after the season was over. All of that is spelled out in that interview.

Just so we are clear, I am not saying the UK breaks academic rules, I am saying that they use all of the loopholes to do be able to as little academically as possible, and then spin it to make it look like they are doing something great while pampering them. To me, teaching people how to use loopholes to their advantage is not best for them. It teaches being self-centered and how to say one thing to someone and do the other. However, after the UNC, ruling, I don have a whole lot of faith in the NCAA's sincerity about academic standards.

Taking 12 credits and finishing the semester to get the APR point does not mean that they pass all of them, or even have to try to pass. The rules in the links you posted show that they have to have earned 18 credits in the academic year to be eligible for the next year. 12 + 12 = 24, not 18.
But, lets say you aren't about to pass, and, while you planned to go to the NBA, the scouts say you aren't ready for it. All you have to do is take an incomplete in the class, and you have one year to make up the work, according UK policy.
I notice in the 246 page document you posted, it does tell us that an incomplete does count towards your grade and team GPA if not satisfied. Although, that 246 page document you cited includes an example of a men's basketball player completing a course in the Summer term in order to be earn the APR eligibility point for that year and, thus, be eligible for the following year, which some of your other links say Is not allowed. I wonder if your 246 page document, dated 2010, is no longer current.

Lastly, you claimed that the men's basketball team earns a 3.0 GPA. Now, after I found out their GPA for the last two terms, you are claiming that they earn a 2.5-3.0.

Feel free to keep this going if you want to. I have a feeling that we are both too stubborn to quit, and it will keep going until one of us, or a mod, gets sick of it.

It's been a calm and informative discussion, I'm not sure why that would be a bad thing. I read your interview with the Wake Forest president. He actually hedged on the answer you are referring to.

He said "in some ways they only have to pass one semester of coursework because in the second semester the basketball season is done before a typical exam time."

That is true, if one views it superficially, but as I have explained throughout our discussion, it is impossible with UK. Why is it impossible? It's in the numbers. If players don't complete their second semester it reflects in both the team GPA and APR. Yes kids can and I'm sure do, fail classes, but that goes for the general student body.

The UK basketball team gpa has usually been around 3.0. We did have a low of a little over 2.5. My point is and has been that a gpa of that level cannot support players not finishing the second semester. It isn't possible just as it isn't possible to have a perfect APR without players performing in class.

Finally, you are very clear in saying UK players use loopholes and you don't believe they perform in class. Fine. I have no issue with that if you can support it with anything even resembling evidence. Note, you don't say "maybe" or "could", you make statements of fact.

I've proven your statements wrong, one by one and now we're down to the final one. Please show us the evidence that supports your position that UK players use some sort of loopholes to achieve their perceived academic success.

 

[cardfaninmemphis]

It's been a calm and informative discussion, I'm not sure why that would be a bad thing. I read your interview with the Wake Forest president. He actually hedged on the answer you are referring to.

He said "in some ways they only have to pass one semester of coursework because in the second semester the basketball season is done before a typical exam time."

That is true, if one views it superficially, but as I have explained throughout our discussion, it is impossible with UK. Why is it impossible? It's in the numbers. If players don't complete their second semester it reflects in both the team GPA and APR. Yes kids can and I'm sure do, fail classes, but that goes for the general student body.

The UK basketball team gpa has usually been around 3.0. We did have a low of a little over 2.5. My point is and has been that a gpa of that level cannot support players not finishing the second semester. It isn't possible just as it isn't possible to have a perfect APR without players performing in class.

Finally, you are very clear in saying UK players use loopholes and you don't believe they perform in class. Fine. I have no issue with that if you can support it with anything even resembling evidence. Note, you don't say "maybe" or "could", you make statements of fact.

I've proven your statements wrong, one by one and now we're down to the final one. Please show us the evidence that supports your position that UK players use some sort of loopholes to achieve their perceived academic success.

Despite your claim, you have not proven me wrong. In fact, I have proven a lot of your statements wrong. You said they perform well in class with a 3.0. I pointed out that they missed the Athletic Director's target of 3.0 the last two semester. I also showed where your links that you brought as evidence contradict each other regarding number of credits required and the time frame to complete such credits.
You claim that their APR shows they are getting it done in the classroom. I said APR is BS. Here are a couple of articles, including one in which one of the architects of the APR acknowledges that colleges with resources can game the system. (BTW, one of the ways they can, in this article, is summer school, which you said does not count.)
http://www.espn.com/college-sports/...ts-programs-find-multitude-ways-game-ncaa-apr
https://www.forbes.com/sites/bdavid...ed-at-with-a-very-skeptical-eye/#276e002a61af
Don't misinterpret their claims about smaller schools not being able to do this as some sort of demand for equality. Their point is that the bigger schools have resources to game the system. Smaller schools handle it as it should be, without gaming it.
The President of Wake Forrest did not hedge at all, despite your wish that he would.
My firm belief, as I stated at the beginning, is that Cal's "all for the kids,'is pure BS. That statement set off my internal BS alert in the same way that his statement that the Memphis NIT Championship that he won was the greatest win in Memphis history, or the 2010 NBA draft was the biggest day in UK basketball history; the same way that your "It's impossible with UK" statement triggered it and, for that matter, the same way that many Rick Pitino's coachspeak in his press conferences throughout the years did, and any coach who said he was not interested in leaving his job for a bigger name school that could pay him more (only to leave soon after for said school.)
You can keep trying to force the kool-aid on me with your outdated, irrelevant and contradicting posts and your phony claims of proving me wrong. I will swallow neither your bogus arguement nor Cal's tripe.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

Despite your claim, you have not proven me wrong. In fact, I have proven a lot of your statements wrong. You said they perform well in class with a 3.0. I pointed out that they missed the Athletic Director's target of 3.0 the last two semester. I also showed where your links that you brought as evidence contradict each other regarding number of credits required and the time frame to complete such credits.
You claim that their APR shows they are getting it done in the classroom. I said APR is BS. Here are a couple of articles, including one in which one of the architects of the APR acknowledges that colleges with resources can game the system. (BTW, one of the ways they can, in this article, is summer school, which you said does not count.)
http://www.espn.com/college-sports/...ts-programs-find-multitude-ways-game-ncaa-apr
https://www.forbes.com/sites/bdavid...ed-at-with-a-very-skeptical-eye/#276e002a61af
Don't misinterpret their claims about smaller schools not being able to do this as some sort of demand for equality. Their point is that the bigger schools have resources to game the system. Smaller schools handle it as it should be, without gaming it.
The President of Wake Forrest did not hedge at all, despite your wish that he would.
My firm belief, as I stated at the beginning, is that Cal's "all for the kids,'is pure BS. That statement set off my internal BS alert in the same way that his statement that the Memphis NIT Championship that he won was the greatest win in Memphis history, or the 2010 NBA draft was the biggest day in UK basketball history; the same way that your "It's impossible with UK" statement triggered it and, for that matter, the same way that many Rick Pitino's coachspeak in his press conferences throughout the years did, and any coach who said he was not interested in leaving his job for a bigger name school that could pay him more (only to leave soon after for said school.)
You can keep trying to force the kool-aid on me with your outdated, irrelevant and contradicting posts and your phony claims of proving me wrong. I will swallow neither your bogus arguement nor Cal's tripe.

All of that and you dont post a shred of evidence of what you claim is going on at UK. I wonder why.

 

[cardfaninmemphis]

All of that and you dont post a shred of evidence of what you claim is going on at UK. I wonder why.

I am so sorry that this seems to be keeping you up at night.

While I don't have this evidence you keep demanding; I am not accusing them of breaking any rules. A big part of my point is that the "evidence" of "getting it done in the classroom," the same evidence that you cite, is all designed to look good when real substance may be lacking. I have fully supported that argument. If the point of the program is to get kids to the NBA, it stands to reason that all of the stops will be pulled out to keep them eligible. If a kid becomes ineligible, the plan fails.

Do you need proof that they are pampered in the Coal lodge? Perhaps you never saw the tour of the lodge that Cal gave on ESPN. Although, I'll bet you did see it.

The point in the original post of this entire thread was an article about the big name coaches getting together to look at the problems in college basketball, and the skepticism about how far will they go to fix it. Yes, Academics is one of those problems. You are saying it isn't broken, yet, the fact that these coaches are getting together tell us otherwise. Reading between the lines of Tom Izzo's comments, he is telling us that is going on with lots of program, and that he is concerned that they will not want to address it. Here are his words, in case you have forgotten.

"Are we going to be honest with ourselves? Are we going to BS each other?" Izzo said of the NABC committee. "Because the neat part about it is, if there's 20 people in the room, most of us know what's going on with everybody. Most of us. Are we going to open up, or are we going to be afraid to be honest? Do we care about the game, or do we care about ourselves? Can we come up with some things that are not the best for one team, one program, one shoe company? We always talk about what's doing what's best for the kids. If the kid's getting a benefit, it's best for him now, but is it best for him in the long run? What are you teaching him? What is he learning? I hope we're honest with each other and truly go in trying to do what's best for the game of basketball."

If the coach at one of the biggest programs in the country says this, I don't need any more evidence to say that it goes on.
Also, I did not say that UK is the only program doing this. I pointed out that, in the article, Cal for continues to BS about it.