UL vs. IU .. Who's more elite?

[Audobaby]

A comparison of Indiana and Louisville over the past 20 years.

Final Fours:

UL 3
IU 1

Elite 8s:

UL 7
IU 1

NCAA Tournament victories:

UL 32
IU 15

Overall wins:

UL 496
IU 412

Is Indiana the elite program most college basketball fans make it out to be? Answering "no" is demonstrable via many metrics. A few notes to further this point:

*Indiana did win NCAA titles in '40 and '53, but had three losing seasons (44, 45, 48) in between.

*From 1954 through 1971 (pre-Knight), the program had five losing seasons and a .500 campaign. Their overall record was 217-185 (54.0 percent), with a grand total of zero final fours and three NCAA tournament appearances... all of which resulted in first-round losses.

*Most of their (spurious) claim as a college basketball elite is the result of Knight's opening 16-year run (72-87), in which he won 3 NCAA titles.

*Since then (88-16), a period fast approaching 30 years, they've managed a total of TWO Final Fours and a glittering 27-22 overall NCAA tournament record, including FOURTEEN first- or second- round knockouts.

*Since 2000, the Hoosiers have failed to make the NCAA Tournament on six occasions.

I'd call Indiana a has-been, but "never were" is closer to the mark. And I feel UL has surpassed the Hoosiers on the list of college basketball's greatest all-time programs.

 

[PHCARD]

Ok, but I'm chanting Go Big Red. I've been a Crean fan since Marquette. I hope he's able to take IU back to the elite status. Go IU!

 

[shadow force]

Well now you can't really claim one as better than other "all time" and then cite a 20 year period as the benchmark. And this is coming from someone that is not an IU fan at all. If you want to say that UofL has been much better in the last 20-25 years then I'll agree with you. IU hasn't been elite at all in the last couple of decades, that is true, but you can't just discount Knight's titles either.

Has UofL surpassed IU as of late? The answer is definitely yes since IU hasn't been past the Sweet 16 in over 13 years while UofL has gone to 2 Final Fours and a National Championship in that same time.

 

[OneEarWonder]

Elite is a very subjective and fluid term. However, I think the answer is NO, they are not elite.
To me elite, like UK, UL, Duke are in the conversation every year. IU and UCLA are "has beens" who have occasional success. String together multiple years, then we can revisit. Which is why MSU and UConn belong in current consideration as well. One down year does not remove it, nor does one up year add it. It should be about a prolonged body of work.

Just my 2 Cents... probably not worth that much, so can I get some change back?

 

[REDFISTFURY3]

If you ask the national media they will say IU however Louisville is always rated the 7th best overall program

 

[ThroughBlue]

Elite is a very subjective and fluid term. However, I think the answer is NO, they are not elite.
To me elite, like UK, UL, Duke are in the conversation every year. IU and UCLA are "has beens" who have occasional success. String together multiple years, then we can revisit. Which is why MSU and UConn belong in current consideration as well. One down year does not remove it, nor does one up year add it. It should be about a prolonged body of work.

Just my 2 Cents... probably not worth that much, so can I get some change back?

Good post. I completely agree.

 

[Cue Card]

Well now you can't really claim one as better than other "all time" and then cite a 20 year period as the benchmark. And this is coming from someone that is not an IU fan at all. If you want to say that UofL has been much better in the last 20-25 years then I'll agree with you. IU hasn't been elite at all in the last couple of decades, that is true, but you can't just discount Knight's titles either.

Has UofL surpassed IU as of late? The answer is definitely yes since IU hasn't been past the Sweet 16 in over 13 years while UofL has gone to 2 Final Fours and a National Championship in that same time.

Exactly right. The word elite itself is subjective. Does the Michigan State loss tarnish their elite status in the eyes of a lot of fans nation wide? Probably not. They're still MSU and they still have Izzo as their coach. They simply got beat by a team that played better today. If those same two teams played a seven game series, MSU would win 4 before Middle Tennessee State could.

IU has a proud rich tradition in college basketball. Just like UofK fans won't discount their wins before the TV was invented, neither should we expect IU fans.

 

[L1c4tillidie]

If this was 1970 I'd say Indiana. Now there's no question it's us. I like the passion cream has though.

 

[teamcanada]

Well now you can't really claim one as better than other "all time" and then cite a 20 year period as the benchmark. And this is coming from someone that is not an IU fan at all. If you want to say that UofL has been much better in the last 20-25 years then I'll agree with you. IU hasn't been elite at all in the last couple of decades, that is true, but you can't just discount Knight's titles either.

Has UofL surpassed IU as of late? The answer is definitely yes since IU hasn't been past the Sweet 16 in over 13 years while UofL has gone to 2 Final Fours and a National Championship in that same time.

Louisville has been to 3 final fours in the last 13 years but I agree with the rest.

 

[shadow force]

Louisville has been to 3 final fiurs in the last 13 years but I agree with the rest.

Right it just depends on how you want to list it. I had 3 Final Fours and an NC down at first but then I thought the NC would cover one of those Final Fours because you obviously get a FF if you win the championship.

 

[American Male]

The only things Indiana has over us is overall wins...By 4 and counting...and NCAA Titles...5 vs. 3...However, Louisville has what is considered 5 Total Titles...1 NAIB/NAIA, 1 NIT, and 3 NCAA Titles!!!

Louisville EXCEEDS Indiana in EVERY other NCAA Stat...Tourney Appearances and Wins...Sweet Sixteens, Elite Eights, Final Fours...Overall Winning %...in 14 LESS Years!!!

They're a good program, but being considered a Blue Blood or Elite is Subjective and Bestowed upon a Few...By a Few!!!

 

[rockfly]

I'm a UK fan and I recognize Louisville as being more elite than IU in today's landscape. Overall throughout history IU holds a firmer spot but in 20 years I doubt we see it that way

 

[earsky]

OP,don't take this over to the national board.The lovefest for the 'bluechips' is off the charts.Don't bust up their circle.lol

 

[American Male]

OP,don't take this over to the national board.The lovefest for the 'bluechips' is off the charts.Don't bust up their circle.lol

I argued with them there for a few days on a 8 page thread...On the Football Board No Less...Presented FACTS which NONE could refut...Indiana Fans were/are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Insecure!!!

Just like UK Fans, SEVERAL Fan Bases pointed to the conferences that Louisville belonged to till we were in the Big East...Saying we played WEAK Comp.

I pointed out that the so called Weak Comp we played had Very Good NCAA Resumes...That SEVERAL have won NCAA Titles against the so called Blue Bloods!

 

[BooneCo_Card]

I argued with them there for a few days on a 8 page thread...On the Football Board No Less...Presented FACTS which NONE could refut...Indiana Fans were/are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Insecure!!!

Just like UK Fans, SEVERAL Fan Bases pointed to the conferences that Louisville belonged to till we were in the Big East...Saying we played WEAK Comp.

I pointed out that the so called Weak Comp we played had Very Good NCAA Resumes...That SEVERAL have won NCAA Titles against the so called Blue Bloods!

They can take the weak conference argument and put it where the sun don't shine. The latter day Metro is the only time we have been in a weak BB conference. Even if it were true, the Cards would play anybody anywhere OOC, especially during the Crum years. I don't remember IU doing that and my memory goes back to Archie Dees and Walt Bellamy.

 

[zipp]

IMO, the profile of IU basketball has declined in the last 20 years because of the rise of pro sports in Indy. Due to the Colts for sure and to a lesser degree, the Pacers. I cross paths with a lot of Hoosiers who don't quite have the interest in IU basketball that they once did.

It's the same pro sports dynamic that we fight in this area to preserve U of L's position. And if we fail, it could be the same result...

 

[Clive Gollings]

UL would do well in this tournament.

 

[American Male]

UL would do well in this tournament.

Yeah, we would have...But thanks to AM, we're having to take an TERRIBLE Tasting DESERVED Medicine!!!

 

[Mike'sMarbles]

IMO, the profile of IU basketball has declined in the last 20 years because of the rise of pro sports in Indy. Due to the Colts for sure and to a lesser degree, the Pacers. I cross paths with a lot of Hoosiers who don't quite have the interest in IU basketball that they once did.

It's the same pro sports dynamic that we fight in this area to preserve U of L's position. And if we fail, it could be the same result...

Insightful post, Zipp. College sports take a back seat in pro towns, but I never really made the connection about IU until now. Probably because I grew up with IU basketball as king in Indiana and I didn't recognize the Colts surge as a defining factor in IU's decline in basketball.

Getting back to the argument, I think both teams are traditional powers. Louisville is currently an elite program, but I'm not sure where IU is at the moment. If they have a deep run this year, that'd make 3 of the last 5 years, pretty good.

I believe there are 7 elite traditional programs now, and that Louisville has pulled itself up into the list by virtue of the program's accomplishments under Pitino including but not limited to the 3rd Championship.

All elite programs have down periods. If you asked this question in Denny Crum's final years, no one was talking about Louisville as an elite program, we were called a has-been.

Granted, IU has not been elite for about the last 20 years, that's a significant stretch.

As to the poster who mentioned UCLA, it hasn't been that long since they were going to multiple Final Fours under Ben Howland. In fact, less than 10 years. But they've been mostly down the past few years. It's a bit premature to say they are a has-been.

 

[zipp]

I'm sure IU is strongly supported in the vicinity of Bloomington and among most IU graduates. If you grew up on "Hoosier Hysteria" and Indiana high school basketball, I'm sure that's ingrained for better or worse.

Where I see interest waning is outside of those factions in the State including much of southern Indiana. Nowadays I can talk to folks who have lived in Indiana all or most of their lives, and IU basketball never comes up in discussion. But a guy might have a Colts ballcap on...

 

[thecycle21]

I think pro sports in general has taken away from the overall interest in college sports. The only reason college sports (football/basketball) are so popular nationally is the gambling aspect. College interest will always be much stronger in states that have no pro sports teams to support. IU doesn't lack fan support and doubt they are hurting on the financial side.

Their decline just likes Louisville's experience in the 90's was an older coach that lost his recruiting mojo and probably stayed too long. Louisville made a home run hire in Pitino. Indiana on the other hand had several bad hires which has lead to their decline. At the end of the day if Crean can keep instate talent at home they will become elite again.

For the last 35 years Louisville has been one of the elite programs in the country. That is a long time to be successful. There are only a couple of programs that have more success for a longer period of time.