The process is nearing completion...

[zipp]

The road to a middle tier P5 basketball program.

Many believed that was the plan a few years ago. Financially, we're already there.

Now, we have folks convincing themselves that a 40-point drubbing in an empty arena from a team of predominantly 3-star guys is understandable because of external factors that every other team in the country is having to deal with.

And as usual, we have little chance of beating our hated "rival" who happens to be 1-5 and losing to every other ACC team on their schedule.

It's bad enough that's the reality. Worse is that fans--at least the representation here--appear to be willing to accept that garbage.

Kinda sad...

 

[LeFors4Ever]

The road to a middle tier P5 basketball program.

Many believed that was the plan a few years ago. Financially, we're already there.

Now, we have folks convincing themselves that a 40-point drubbing in an empty arena from a team of predominantly 3-star guys is understandable because of external factors that every other team in the country is having to deal with.

And as usual, we have little chance of beating our hated "rival" who happens to be 1-5 and losing to every other ACC team on their schedule.

It's bad enough that's the reality. Worse is that fans--at least the representation here--appear to be willing to accept that garbage.

Kinda sad...

2006 NIT
2007 Round of 32
2008 Elite 8
2009 Elite 8
2010 First Round loss as a 9 Seed
2011 First Round Loss to an OVC team

That looks like a mid tier program for a 6 year stretch.

 

[shadow force]

The road to a middle tier P5 basketball program.

And as usual, we have little chance of beating our hated "rival" who happens to be 1-5 and losing to every other ACC team on their schedule.

Why is that though? You act like UofL has always beaten Uk regularly in basketball when its not the case. Why was Coach Crum 7-13 against Uk? Why was Coach Pitino 6-12 against them? You and everyone else including me would say that Crum and Pitino were better coaches than Mack so tell me why have our greatest coaches never turned the tide to beat them?

 

[zipp]

2006 NIT
2007 Round of 32
2008 Elite 8
2009 Elite 8
2010 First Round loss as a 9 Seed
2011 First Round Loss to an OVC team

That looks like a mid tier program for a 6 year stretch.

Attendance in the six years above averaged 100.5% of capacity. AND I recall plenty of people talking about a washed up head coach midyear 2012 who couldn't get it done anymore. Let's not pretend that run of years was "oh well" for the average U of L fan.

Don't lose track... This thread's not about the results. It's about the fan reaction TO those results...

 

[zipp]

Why is that though? You act like UofL has always beaten Uk regularly in basketball when its not the case. Why was Coach Crum 7-13 against Uk? Why was Coach Pitino 6-12 against them? You and everyone else including me would say that Crum and Pitino were better coaches than Mack so tell me why have our greatest coaches never turned the tide to beat them?

It's not my job to analyze why. I look at results and how fans view those results.

And I certainly don't recall anyone saying it was OK for Crum and Pitino to lose regularly to LPT. Certainly not anyone who wants to see this game on the schedule every year.

If that last sentence describes you, why aren't you holding Mack to the same standard? Why are U of L fans already making excuses why the script won't be different this year? That's a mindset that has little to do with facts. It tells me that the bar is lower (AKA "mid tier basketball program").

And by the way, U of L has NEVER played an LPT team that has started a season this poorly. Which makes the expectation for Mack and his team heading into this game even more puzzling...

 

[PHCARD]

Don't lose track... This thread's not about the results. It's about the fan reaction TO those results...

I suggest you go find yourself some fans that hate on all things UofL like yourself. You rarely, very rarely have anything positive to say about anything UofL. SOS, just another day.

 

[zipp]

I suggest you go find yourself some fans that hate on all things UofL like yourself. You rarely, very rarely have anything positive to say about anything UofL. SOS, just another day.

I always enjoy the fan card checks esp. when it accompanies this kinda subject. Keep it coming!

Weak generalizations are not a good debate strategy. There's plenty I love about U of L athletics, and it's not necessary for me (or anyone else who's critical) to list those when I bring up a timely subject like this. You're also the last person I should have to suggest to stay on topic.

Most U of L fans who know me personally enjoy discussing these subjects with me. Unlike here, they often bring the subject up. I use that as a better gauge than a handful of anonymous posters here...

 

[chevelle99]

Someone has now added a fan psychology minor to his imaginary sports management degree.

 

[RomanOben]

Zipp isn’t wrong here. I’m amazed how willingly people dismiss losing by 40, yes 4-0 points. You can’t blame that on Covid or lack of practices or having 8 scholarship guys suit up. Save the effort of responding that was just one game.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

I’m amazed how willingly people dismiss losing by 40

I do agree with this 40 is just a roll over

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

What I don't understand is why OP is pretending to care about what anybody around here thinks?

 

[BPGhost]

Zipp isn’t wrong here. I’m amazed how willingly people dismiss losing by 40, yes 4-0 points. You can’t blame that on Covid or lack of practices or having 8 scholarship guys suit up. Save the effort of responding that was just one game.

If the loss and more importantly, the margin was not a result of those factors combined with playing a top 15, senior laden team at full strength - then by all means, tell us what it really caused it.

 

[shadow force]

It's not my job to analyze why.

It's not your job to analyze UofLs finances, arena, etc. yet you go on and on endlessly about them ad nauseum.

 

[BPGhost]

It's not your job to analyze UofLs finances, arena, etc. yet you go on and on endlessly about them ad nauseum.

This is what results from having no job.

 

[zipp]

It's not your job to analyze UofLs finances, arena, etc. yet you go on and on endlessly about them ad nauseum.

You do what you're qualified to do. I have graduate U of L engineering and business degrees, not psychology--which is why I can't answer any WTF questions about curious fan behavior.

And LOL at the ad nauseum attempts to morph topics into 'zipp' threads...

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

And LOL at the continued attempts to morph topics into 'zipp' threads...

Your thread is a topic morphed into a "you guys" thread I assume you're getting back mostly what you expected? A few of us have agreed 40 pt drubbing no good!

Ghost just showed up give it time, this could get 3 pages for you if they let it ride!

 

[BPGhost]

Your thread is a topic morphed into a "you guys" thread I assume you're getting back mostly what you expected? A few of us have agreed 40 pt drubbing no good!

Ghost just showed up give it time, this could get 3 pages for you if they let it ride!

I mean the notion that anyone is ok with being blown out is absurd. As is the notion that playing the 12th ranked team (at full strength) while missing two of the three best / most valuable players and coming off an eighteen day layoff aren’t factors in the loss or the margin.

As for three pages?

In before the lock!

 

[RomanOben]

If the loss and more importantly, the margin was not a result of those factors combined with playing a top 15, senior laden team at full strength - then by all means, tell us what it really caused it.

I’d expect a higher level of discussion, but let’s just start with a simple premise: it’s very hard for a power 5 team to beat another by 40 points. It’s even harder for a top 25 team to do it to another. Louisville, a top 5-7 program of all-time, should never lose by 40 unless we are playing the Lakers.
You could blame a good solid loss on a variety of factors, but you can’t explain away 40 points. Just doesn’t work. Yet, the majority of our fans seem pretty ok with it. Mediocrity has indeed set in.
That team we put on the floor Saturday had enough talent to beat the guys wearing Wisconsin red. We didn’t compete and managed to embarrass ourselves.

 

[LeFors4Ever]

Attendance in the six years above averaged 100.5% of capacity. AND I recall plenty of people talking about a washed up head coach midyear 2012 who couldn't get it done anymore. Let's not pretend that run of years was "oh well" for the average U of L fan.

Don't lose track... This thread's not about the results. It's about the fan reaction TO those results...

You’re right, this seasons attendance is going to be awful!

 

[BPGhost]

I’d expect a higher level of discussion, but let’s just start with a simple premise: it’s very hard for a power 5 team to beat another by 40 points. It’s even harder for a top 25 team to do it to another. Louisville, a top 5-7 program of all-time, should never lose by 40 unless we are playing the Lakers.
You could blame a good solid loss on a variety of factors, but you can’t explain away 40 points. Just doesn’t work. Yet, the majority of our fans seem pretty ok with it. Mediocrity has indeed set in.
That team we put on the floor Saturday had enough talent to beat the guys wearing Wisconsin red. We didn’t compete and managed to embarrass ourselves.

Any “higher level of discussion” would almost certainly include an answer or answers to a pretty basic question. I’ll ask again - you’ve talked about what factors should not be used when explaining / understanding the margin of loss - I’m simply asking you to provide what factors should be considered.

FWIW - pretty sure the worst team in the NBA would beat every college team - every year by more than 40.

 

[RomanOben]

Why are you asking me to pinpoint the reasons we lost by 40? You seem intent on explaining a historically lopsided defeat by blaming Covid, a lack of practice time and a depleted roster.

If you want to believe those factors add up to a 40-point deficit, then maybe you think this team is that bad. I don’t have an answer for the embarrassing loss, but 8 scholarship athletes coached by a man making Mack’s salary should have been capable of keeping the game interesting past the 12-minute mark in the first half.

 

[Knucklehank1]

“The road to a middle tier P5 basketball program.”

Before this past season was abruptly cut short, we were a strong contender to make the Final Four (per the sharps in Vegas). Seems like you are overreacting.

 

[BPGhost]

Why are you asking me to pinpoint the reasons we lost by 40? You seem intent on explaining a historically lopsided defeat by blaming Covid, a lack of practice time and a depleted roster.

If you want to believe those factors add up to a 40-point deficit, then maybe you think this team is that bad. I don’t have an answer for the embarrassing loss, but 8 scholarship athletes coached by a man making Mack’s salary should have been capable of keeping the game interesting past the 12-minute mark in the first half.

No need to pinpoint - feel free to use broad stokes to provide the real reason that we got drubbed. I mean - you’re the one that said those things that others attributed to the margin were incorrect - I’d just assume that given that - you could explain to the rest of us idiots the real reasons.

I don’t think “this team is that bad” but then again, this team didn’t really make the floor Saturday. Screen name notwithstanding - I’ve no idea about your sports background but if you don’t think that blowouts happen at every level - you don’t pay attention.

 

[RomanOben]

I used broad strokes. You didn’t like them because they don’t square with your understanding of events.

I would say I played sports at a higher level than most on this board, but only played high school basketball (played in KY Sweet 16). Of course, that doesn’t matter with respect to this conversation.

Our guys should not have lost the game by 40. You can make a valid case for losing or even losing soundly, but to go up there and give minimal effort is unacceptable. I promise you Bellarmine would have kept it within 20 or so and they would love to have our athletes. We took a historic beat down and it can’t be blamed on the things people are assigning blame to.

If 9 days of missed practice makes 8 of our scholarship, D1, ACC level athletes lose by 40, you better hope I’m right.

 

[zipp]

“The road to a middle tier P5 basketball program.”

Before this past season was abruptly cut short, we were a strong contender to make the Final Four (per the sharps in Vegas). Seems like you are overreacting.

I recall this discussion before... When things were cancelled, we were the 14th ranked team (AP) in the country heading DOWN in the polls. And that was while losing four of the final seven games. It had me and others in this space talking about Mack's U of L teams in fade mode when games counted the most.

None of that sounds to me like "strong contender to make the Final Four"...

 

[zipp]

Why are you asking me to pinpoint the reasons we lost by 40? You seem intent on explaining a historically lopsided defeat by blaming Covid, a lack of practice time and a depleted roster...

The only thing that comes close to explaining that loss is a grad transfer point guard destined to be a first team All American.

I hope he gets there because the rest of the team goes along for the ride. We'll see...

 

[chevelle99]

LMAO. Guy is relentless I’ll give him that. Also stale as moldy bread. Margin of loss isn’t the issue. Plenty large losses in just the UL/ UL game series. Including the 34 point loss in ‘86.

Message is:
1) Mack is a bad hire.
2) We don’t have the money to fire him immediately after the last loss.
3) Both are Vince’s fault.

We now return to our regular threads about sports.

 

[Knucklehank1]

I recall this discussion before... When things were cancelled, we were the 14th ranked team (AP) in the country heading DOWN in the polls. And that was while losing four of the final seven games. It had me and others in this space talking about Mack's U of L teams in fade mode when games counted the most.

None of that sounds to me like "strong contender to make the Final Four"...

Funny that the guys in Vegas, you know the ones that put big money on games, had us as #7 in the final odds that came out prior to tourney being cancelled. I’ll take the word of folks making the odds over your agenda driven junk that you may or may not recollect.

 

[Morgantown Card]

Message is:
1) Mack is a bad hire.
2) We don’t have the money to fire him immediately after the last loss.
3) Both are Vince’s fault.

4) FARR that sonofabeyitch

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

I’d expect a higher level of discussion, but let’s just start with a simple premise: it’s very hard for a power 5 team to beat another by 40 points. It’s even harder for a top 25 team to do it to another. Louisville, a top 5-7 program of all-time, should never lose by 40 unless we are playing the Lakers.
You could blame a good solid loss on a variety of factors, but you can’t explain away 40 points. Just doesn’t work. Yet, the majority of our fans seem pretty ok with it. Mediocrity has indeed set in.
That team we put on the floor Saturday had enough talent to beat the guys wearing Wisconsin red. We didn’t compete and managed to embarrass ourselves.

I agree with all of this. Not 100% sure about mediocrity setting in part maybe - I don't know if this team is mediocre right now after what just happened, maybe they are worse.

Hard to put crystal ball hat on to see where this is heading, concern should be setting in maybe.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

Our guys should not have lost the game by 40. You can make a valid case for losing or even losing soundly, but to go up there and give minimal effort is unacceptable.

I think this is fair, and maybe even the bottom line.

 

[zipp]

LMAO. Guy is relentless I’ll give him that. Also stale as moldy bread. Margin of loss isn’t the issue. Plenty large losses in just the UL/ UL game series. Including the 34 point loss in ‘86.

Message is:
1) Mack is a bad hire.
2) We don’t have the money to fire him immediately after the last loss.
3) Both are Vince’s fault.

We now return to our regular threads about sports.

As I said to Lefors, the thread's less about results... So tell me that the big losses you're referring to--esp. the 86 loss to the slapd!cks--were taken in stride and rationalized by fans to the degree this Wisconisin loss is. I was at the 86 LPT game and witnessed the reaction as it happened.

Mack may end up being a good hire. My objective until we know is that he's held to the same standard that we have always held good coaches. I'm not for relaxed standards based in an effort to put lipstick on a pig. If anyone in athletics ain't getting a job done, I'll call that person out the same way you called out his predecessor.

So again, this thread is how YOU'RE handling that. Also for the record, you're the first poster in this thread to mention "Vince"...

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

I recall this discussion before... When things were cancelled, we were the 14th ranked team (AP) in the country heading DOWN in the polls.

They were projected.2 seed in the bracket that came out after the season was cancelled.

I didn't have a lot of faith in the team, but that's eye test opinion only. I didn't draw that conclusion based on a trend. I base it on soft top player that didn't bring his best in the big games and concern about the guards being good enough too. Appreciate their time here but the group did not scream FF contender, but their overall body of work that year put them in a favorable seed spot to maybe make a run.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

Mack may end up being a good hire. My objective until we know is that he's held to the same standard that we have always held good coaches.

But all the good coaches don't inherit scandals and have NCAA decisions looming in their 3rd year. This is a big deal. I know that you constantly try to rear view mirror it, but how can something be put in the rear view mirror that isn't even over yet? Hearings are scheduled, and more shoes drop. It impacts the ability to put together a roster.

That said I don't know about the guy either. But this isn't a situation like what Mick Cronin just took on at UCLA, for example.

It just isn't a new guy driving a new fancy car off a cliff.

 

[zipp]

Funny that the guys in Vegas, you know the ones that put big money on games, had us as #7 in the final odds that came out prior to tourney being cancelled. I’ll take the word of folks making the odds over your agenda driven junk that you may or may not recollect.

Vegas had LPT at 12-1 to win this year's national championship...

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

Vegas had LPT at 12-1 to win this year's national championship...

Hank said final odds. Big difference.

 

[zipp]

But all the good coaches don't inherit scandals and have NCAA decisions looming in their 3rd year. This is a big deal. I know that you constantly try to rear view mirror it, but how can something be put in the rear view mirror that isn't even over yet? Hearings are scheduled, and more shoes drop. It impacts the ability to put together a roster.

That said I don't know about the guy either. But this isn't a situation like what Mick Cronin just took on at UCLA, for example.

It just isn't a new guy driving a new fancy car off a cliff.

It's not about trying to just look forward--something I've been told repeatedly I need to do.

Creighton is ranked 13th in this week's AP poll, and Kansas is 3rd. Both of those schools have pending NCAA investigations hanging over their heads. You can have a good team and even maintain a good program if that's a priority. Or you can take a scorched earth approach as we've largely done to ourselves.

The talent on this U of L team is no less than on the teams we've had the last decade. The current roster guys we signed out of high school average 4.00 stars. That doesn't include the grad transfer that I guess some now think is the best player on the team.

Mack is paid 80% of what Pitino was paid by U of L when he was fired.

So as far as resources and comparative examples, why should my standards for this team be any lower than it is? I don't understand it, hence this thread...

 

[zipp]

Hank said final odds. Big difference.

He's using Vegas as his crystal ball, and LPT has played six games--the equivalent of a good postseason run. Show me the difference.

I'll say it again... We lost 4 of the final 7 games down the stretch with two of the losses to Clemson and Georgia Tech. Plenty of fans besides me were questioning Mack's teams down the stretch. I don't own this side of the debate...

 

[Knucklehank1]

He's using Vegas as his crystal ball, and LPT has played six games--the equivalent of a good postseason run. Show me the difference.

I'll say it again... We lost 4 of the final 7 games down the stretch with two of the losses to Clemson and Georgia Tech. Plenty of fans besides me were questioning Mack's teams down the stretch. I don't own this side of the debate...

You are being a goof-ball. This was the final odds before the season was called. To say that the 7th lowest odds wasn’t a strong Final Four contender is just stupid.

 

[Knucklehank1]

He's using Vegas as his crystal ball, and LPT has played six games--the equivalent of a good postseason run. Show me the difference.

I'll say it again... We lost 4 of the final 7 games down the stretch with two of the losses to Clemson and Georgia Tech. Plenty of fans besides me were questioning Mack's teams down the stretch. I don't own this side of the debate...

LPT is not listed at 12-1. They are now 25-1.