The MYTH that UK is "closer" to U of L after last year's game

[Global Havok]

Bottom line is there's very little difference statistically between Stupes' LPT teams and Joker's teams. AND there's very little evidence that Joker left the cupboard bare...His last two recruiting classes were Rivals rated 2.9-3.0 stars on average.

All you hear from LPT fans to base their optimism are distortions of reality (facts) and intangible stuff that can't be quantified. None of that's gonna lead to more wins or better performance against the SEC and U of L.

LPT Football: We hate facts...

I don't know where you're getting your numbers, but Rivals gave Joker's 2011 and 2012 classes average star ratings of 2.96 and 2.88 respectively. I also don't know why you don't include his 2010 class(average star rating of 2.77) considering those recruits would be exhausting their eligibility this season.

The fact is that UofL recruited better than UK in all three of those years, in both the class rankings and average star rating. Another fact is that UK suffered major roster attrition under Joker, as well as at the start of Stoops tenure. The 2010 class of 27 recruits signed, and by the start of the 2012 season only 16 remained. Nine of those 11 that left were defensive players. That's how it was every year under Joker. After Stoops arrived, by the start of his second season a little over 25 players had left the team for various reasons. Of the 26 players signed in Joker's final class, only a few are listed as RS Seniors, and we all know that's not because of draft success.

One last fact is that all three of Stoops' classes have finished higher in both class ranking and average star rating than Joker's best class.

Those are all quantifiable facts. I love facts.

 

[zipp]

I don't know where you're getting your numbers, but Rivals gave Joker's 2011 and 2012 classes average star ratings of 2.96 and 2.88 respectively...

The fact is that UofL recruited better than UK in all three of those years, in both the class rankings and average star rating. Another fact is that UK suffered major roster attrition under Joker, as well as at the start of Stoops tenure....

One last fact is that all three of Stoops' classes have finished higher in both class ranking and average star rating than Joker's best class.

Those are all quantifiable facts. I love facts.

Often with an LPT fan, the problem is when you don't UNDERSTAND facts...

Are you debating that 2.96 = 3.0 stars or that 2.88 = 2.9? The latter in each case were the numbers in my post.

I hear a lotta BS about "roster attrition" under Joker, but I also recall it was Stupes running off a lot of Joker's players. Does Joker get blamed for that or Stupes? I know who I would blame. You sure Joker's recruits wanted to play for Stupes?

If you look up and down the LPT depth chart at the END of Stupes' first year, you'll find 3-star guys playing. On defense, you even had 3-star DEPTH. I know because I've checked it. Where did those guys come from?

The funny thing about LPT fans and Joker... He was a great recruiter for LPT until LPT fans decided they hated him. And then he wasn't. Maybe you can 'splain that for me.

LPT Football: We changed our minds...

 

[CATFANFOLIFE87]

Often with an LPT fan, the problem is when you don't UNDERSTAND facts...

Are you debating that 2.96 = 3.0 stars or that 2.88 = 2.9? The latter in each case were the numbers in my post.

I hear a lotta BS about "roster attrition" under Joker, but I also recall it was Stupes running off a lot of Joker's players. Does Joker get blamed for that or Stupes? I know who I would blame. You sure Joker's recruits wanted to play for Stupes?

If you look up and down the LPT depth chart at the END of Stupes' first year, you'll find 3-star guys playing. On defense, you even had 3-star DEPTH. I know because I've checked it. Where did those guys come from?

The funny thing about LPT fans and Joker... He was a great recruiter for LPT until LPT fans decided they hated him. And then he wasn't. Maybe you can 'splain that for me.

LPT Football: We changed our minds...

The mighty three star recruits you're refrencing that Stoops encouraged to look elsewhere ended up at EKU, WKU, ect. That is where they should have signed out of high school. There wasn't a single one that went to a P5 school. Why do you think that is? Not all 3 star recruits are created equal. There are thousands of 3 star recruits every year and many don't go to a P5 school. I'd think you know that as long as you've been with Rivals. Joker would strike out and start stealing commits from Middle Tennessse State at the 11th hour. Our receivers were almost never career receivers we were always taking quarterbacks and trying to convert them to receivers.

Joker was a better than average recruiter as an assistant but he hired terrible recruiters as a head coach. He was unorganized, hired older assistants that were out of touch with the younger generation, and he purposely avoided stiff competition in recruiting. Joker almost completely filled our classes with kids from Georgia. Georgia produces a lot of talent but if you aren't willing to recruit against Georgia Tech, West Virginia, and other SEC schools then you're just getting 4th or 5th tier recruits in that state.

Stoops has made a killing recruiting 2nd tier recruits in Ohio. We are signing a ton of players that are on the cusp of being offered by OSU, ND, and Michigan. The schools we regularly recruit against now are Wisconsin, Michigan St, Nebraska, West Virginia, and the rest of the B1G. Occasionally we are signing guys with offers from Michigan and ND. Ohio produces as many pros as Georgia and instead of taking guys in the 100 range of the Georgia state rankings we fill classes with top 15-40 Ohio kids. Simply comparing average star rating doesn't tell the story at all. You could at least compare the Rivals ratings that would at least scratch the surface

 

[CATFANFOLIFE87]

To have proof the gap has closed, you would need to have proof the next group of UofL players is less than the equal of last year's, AND have proof UK's team this year is better than last year's UK team. There is absolutely no way to prove either at this point, and any discussion of the matter is pure speculation.

You're right but it's June if we weren't speculating the boards would be dead

 

[Global Havok]

Often with an LPT fan, the problem is when you don't UNDERSTAND facts...

Are you debating that 2.96 = 3.0 stars or that 2.88 = 2.9? The latter in each case were the numbers in my post.

I hear a lotta BS about "roster attrition" under Joker, but I also recall it was Stupes running off a lot of Joker's players. Does Joker get blamed for that or Stupes? I know who I would blame. You sure Joker's recruits wanted to play for Stupes?

If you look up and down the LPT depth chart at the END of Stupes' first year, you'll find 3-star guys playing. On defense, you even had 3-star DEPTH. I know because I've checked it. Where did those guys come from?

The funny thing about LPT fans and Joker... He was a great recruiter for LPT until LPT fans decided they hated him. And then he wasn't. Maybe you can 'splain that for me.

LPT Football: We changed our minds...

No, I'm not debating that. I'm simply correcting you.

How can there be three star depth when Joker's classes didn't even average three stars?

As for the "BS about roster attrition under Joker", it's not BS, it's a fact. The classes between 2010 and 2012 averaged 26 players a class. They also averaged losing 9.33 players per class to some sort of attrition. That's over a third of the players per class. Again, where did the three star depth come from? It definitely wasn't from recruiting or transfers.

While losing most of the players when Stoops took over is ultimately on him(discipline issues not withstanding), it was necessary for the greater benefit of the program, but was also a trend established before he arrived, as the above numbers show. Joker and staff were terrible at not only evaluating and developing talent, but also took huge risks on guys that were in very bad academic shape.

Many were happy with his recruiting, but many were not. Those that were didn't take the time to see what was really happening with the roster numbers, but they came around soon enough.

I know many here probably grow tired of the optimism of UK fans in regards to football recruiting and success on the field, but the correlation between recruiting and winning is there and real, just like there is a correlation between a recruits ranking and being drafted.

I'm by no means predicting a UK victory against the Cards this year, but I am confident in the young talent being put on the field. If both rosters are healthy I see a very entertaining and competitive game.

 

[mwatson61]

No, I'm not debating that. I'm simply correcting you.

How can there be three star depth when Joker's classes didn't even average three stars?

As for the "BS about roster attrition under Joker", it's not BS, it's a fact. The classes between 2010 and 2012 averaged 26 players a class. They also averaged losing 9.33 players per class to some sort of attrition. That's over a third of the players per class. Again, where did the three star depth come from? It definitely wasn't from recruiting or transfers.

While losing most of the players when Stoops took over is ultimately on him(discipline issues not withstanding), it was necessary for the greater benefit of the program, but was also a trend established before he arrived, as the above numbers show. Joker and staff were terrible at not only evaluating and developing talent, but also took huge risks on guys that were in very bad academic shape.

Many were happy with his recruiting, but many were not. Those that were didn't take the time to see what was really happening with the roster numbers, but they came around soon enough.

I know many here probably grow tired of the optimism of UK fans in regards to football recruiting and success on the field, but the correlation between recruiting and winning is there and real, just like there is a correlation between a recruits ranking and being drafted.

I'm by no means predicting a UK victory against the Cards this year, but I am confident in the young talent being put on the field. If both rosters are healthy I see a very entertaining and competitive game.

I think that UK has definitely stepped up in recruiting, however that talent level is no better than Louisville's and it's still at the bottom of the SEC. Stoops still needs to prove that he can develop this talent as a head coach. I keep reading comments about how great his defenses were at FSU. Well FSU's defenses did not miss a beat without him so is it Stoops coaching ability or was his success based on the system? Call me skeptical at this point. Remember, he was on nobodies radar to be a head coach and he reached out to them. He was like candidate #8 for the job.

 

[HedleyLamarr]

Kentucky's hopes for a bowl year rest on the assumption that they are improving while Florida, South Carolina and Vandy remain awful, and Missouri, Mississippi State and Louisville decline. It's more likely that all of those teams will improve as much or more than Kentucky.

 

[The Public Enemy]

Kentucky's hopes for a bowl year rest on the assumption that they are improving while Florida, South Carolina and Vandy remain awful, and Missouri, Mississippi State and Louisville decline. It's more likely that all of those teams will improve as much or more than Kentucky.

Vandy will still be awful....
Florida, South Carolina will be better and they got South Carolina on the Road.
Mississippi State, Louisville and Missouri will be virtually the same

 

[bluescat92]

Kentucky has the potential to be a much improved team as their young players and head coach gain more playing experience. Louisville has the potential to be a much improved team as their replacement players gain more playing experience. But, how that translate into wins and loses is tough to predict as they both have hard schedules. Both fan bases have the potential to be unhappy by seasons end or be ecstatic.

But, I feel Stoops will have more time given to him then many of us are predicting and has the potential to be at UK longer then Petrino will be at UL.

 

[zipp]

...Both fan bases have the potential to be unhappy by seasons end or be ecstatic..

Was that kind of valuable insight really worth a post?

...But, I feel Stoops...has the potential to be at UK longer then Petrino will be at UL.

Stupes fails and he's fired. Or he defies all odds and succeeds. And takes a job at a real football program.

In other words, that's a bet you'll lose.

LPT Football: Messed over either way...

 

[zipp]

The mighty three star recruits you're refrencing that Stoops encouraged to look elsewhere ended up at EKU, WKU, etc... There wasn't a single one that went to a P5 school. Why do you think that is? Not all 3 star recruits are created equal...

Joker was a better than average recruiter as an assistant but he hired terrible recruiters as a head coach...Joker almost completely filled our classes with kids from Georgia...

Here is the LPT depth chart at the end of Stupes' first year. Up and down that roster, the starters are Rivals 3-star recruits out of high school. The only spotty area is the offensive line. On defense, that roster actually has 3-star depth. I've already researched the kids and where they were rated.

It's mythology that Stupes had no talent on that roster or this past year's. He and his coaches just didn't know how to coach it. And the best kid on that 2013 depth chart, BTW, was a Joker recruit, Bud Depree.

Now, I'm hearing that "not all 3 star recruits are created equal". How would you personally know how good these 3 star kids are and were? Let me guess, you can just tell. Sounds more to me like you're morphing the argument or moving the goalposts. As we typically see from LPT football fans.

LPT Football: We're predictable...

 

[mwatson61]

Kentucky has the potential to be a much improved team as their young players and head coach gain more playing experience. Louisville has the potential to be a much improved team as their replacement players gain more playing experience. But, how that translate into wins and loses is tough to predict as they both have hard schedules. Both fan bases have the potential to be unhappy by seasons end or be ecstatic.

But, I feel Stoops will have more time given to him then many of us are predicting and has the potential to be at UK longer then Petrino will be at UL.

Petrino isn't going anywhere. All UK fans who think otherwise, are sadly mistaken. He's learned from his previous decisions and has settled back in Louisville where his family has always called home. Stoops on the other hand will either make it happen or be the next in the revolving door of former Wildcat coaches, never to have another meaningful head coaching job.

 

[zipp]

BTW, Georgia ranks only behind Texas, Florida, and Calfornia for states supplying colleges with the most FBS football talent on both an overall and a per capita basis. I've heard many say--and I agree--give me a 3-star kid from a state like Georgia than from any state around these parts. Can't believe an LPT fan would complain about Joker signing so many kids from the Peach State.

LPT Football: Because we don't know what we're talking about...

 

[mwatson61]

BTW, Georgia ranks only behind Texas, Florida, and Calfornia for states supplying colleges with the most FBS football talent on both an overall and a per capita basis. I've heard many say--and I agree--give me a 3-star kid from a state like Georgia than from any state around these parts. Can't believe an LPT fan would complain about Joker signing so many kids from the Peach State.

LPT Football: Because we don't know what we're talking about...

Zipp haven't you heard, OHIO is the new place to be for building that BB powerhouse. Their fan base buys into what ever the current coach sells only to get smacked back into reality. Bottom feeders.

 

[CATFANFOLIFE87]

BTW, Georgia ranks only behind Texas, Florida, and Calfornia for states supplying colleges with the most FBS football talent on both an overall and a per capita basis. I've heard many say--and I agree--give me a 3-star kid from a state like Georgia than from any state around these parts. Can't believe an LPT fan would complain about Joker signing so many kids from the Peach State.

LPT Football: Because we don't know what we're talking about...

You're right and Ohio is the next state on the list behind Georgia. In a given year Georgia only has a few more pros in the NFL than Ohio does. The problem with Joker was that he wasn't recruiting high enough into the state rankings to get the players with pro potential in most cases. We were getting whatever was left over after the SEC and ACC got what they wanted. Now we are getting guys that are highly coveted by the B1G and Big 12 schools. You're getting a much better player at the top of the Ohio rankings than you are near the bottom of the top 100 in Georgia

 

[zipp]

I don't think you hear too good...

Joker got 3-star kids from Georgia. Consistently. For a bottom feeding P5 school like LPT, it ain't gettin' any better than that.

All of the Ohio kids in LPT's 2016 class are rated 3 stars.

LPT Football: The best high school football in the country is now played in Ohio...

 

[CardFan1130]

But now Stopps is gonna coach em up

 

[rockycard]

Leave these UK fans alone guys, you know the this is the time of year where they are better than us. We only have bragging rights from August thru Jan, they have the other half of the year.

 

[cards62878]

Always funny to me UK fans are more about recruiting rankings than actual results on the field.

 

[Global Havok]

BTW, Georgia ranks only behind Texas, Florida, and Calfornia for states supplying colleges with the most FBS football talent on both an overall and a per capita basis. I've heard many say--and I agree--give me a 3-star kid from a state like Georgia than from any state around these parts. Can't believe an LPT fan would complain about Joker signing so many kids from the Peach State.

LPT Football: Because we don't know what we're talking about...

There is no evidence that a three star from a state like Georgia will perform better in college than a three star from a state like Ohio. In fact, the evidence shows that star ratings are consistent when predicting college production and NFL draft success, regardless of the state the recruit is from. The higher rated a recruit, the more likely they'll produce in college and have draft success.

I don't think you hear too good...

Joker got 3-star kids from Georgia. Consistently. For a bottom feeding P5 school like LPT, it ain't gettin' any better than that.

All of the Ohio kids in LPT's 2016 class are rated 3 stars.

LPT Football: The best high school football in the country is now played in Ohio...

It is getting better than that.

The 2014 class was loaded with four stars. The Ohio recruits in the 2016 class likely haven't been evaluated by recruiting services since the end of their Junior seasons. Football isn't a year round focus in Ohio like it is the southern states. With the recent interest in and offers to those Ohio kids I expect many to get a ratings bump when evaluated again.

Always funny to me UK fans are more about recruiting rankings than actual results on the field.

Recruiting rankings directly correlate with on the field success. This is proven. Take two rosters. Look at their last five recruiting classes. The roster with the higher rated classes wins the game over two thirds of the time. There are over a thousand game results between Power 5 schools that this is based on.

If you need evidence of this in regards to our own rivalry, look at the Rivals recruiting rankings between both schools, then compare that to the record in the series during that time. They have been doing rankings since the 2002 class. More often than not UofL's classes ranked higher than UK's. Surprise, more often than not UofL has won the game.

 

[Global Havok]

Here is the LPT depth chart at the end of Stupes' first year. Up and down that roster, the starters are Rivals 3-star recruits out of high school. The only spotty area is the offensive line. On defense, that roster actually has 3-star depth. I've already researched the kids and where they were rated.

It's mythology that Stupes had no talent on that roster or this past year's. He and his coaches just didn't know how to coach it. And the best kid on that 2013 depth chart, BTW, was a Joker recruit, Bud Depree.

Now, I'm hearing that "not all 3 star recruits are created equal". How would you personally know how good these 3 star kids are and were? Let me guess, you can just tell. Sounds more to me like you're morphing the argument or moving the goalposts. As we typically see from LPT football fans.

LPT Football: We're predictable...

Lol at "only spotty area is the offensive line".

There was more three stars on the defense than I thought, but to say it is three star depth is misleading, unless you want to rely on true Freshmen and Sophomores for depth. 11 of the 27 players listed on that depth chart fall into that category.

Also, all three stars aren't equal. And, it doesn't have anything to do with a fan's opinion, college coaches tell us that with offers. Here is a list of every player on that depth chart, their star rating, and their offers other than UK. Obviously, a recruit with more Power 5 offers would be considered the better prospect. I've broken them down into Joker and Stoops guys.

Joker's guys:
Bud Dupree 3* Auburn, GT, Jacksonville St.
Donte Rumph 3* Clemson, UT, VT
Tristian Johnson 3* ECU, Kent St.
Mister Cobble 2* None
Mike Douglas 3* UC, Colorado St., FAU, FIU, IU, Iowa, Iowa St., Mizzou
Christian Coleman 3* Duke, Memphis, MTSU, Vandy
Farrington Huguenin 2* NC AT, NC Central, SC State
Alvin Davis 3* Miss St., Southern Miss
Josh Forrest 3* UCF
Kory Brown 3* None
Malcolm McDuffen 3* Ball St., Purdue, WKU
Avery Williamson 3* Arky St., New Mexico
Tyler Brause 3* Iowa St., Kent St., Maryland, Stanford, Syracuse, Western Michigan
Khalid Henderson 3* Air Force, UConn, MTSU, Mississippi, UT, Troy, UCF
Miles Simpson 3* Central Michigan, UC, Illinois, IU, UofL, Purdue, Troy, WKU
Cody Quinn 3* Toledo, WVU, Marshall, Miami(OH), Purdue, Bowling Green, UC, Illinois, Kent St.
Ashley Lowery 3* Air Force, EKU, Illinois, UAB, Western Carolina
Daron Blaylock 3* UC, Duke, Illinois, UofL, Maryland
Eric Dixon 3* La Tech, La Lafayette, UofL, South Alabama, USF
Genn Faulkner 4* None
Fred Tiller 3* ECU, FAU, FIU, Georgia State, GT, KU, Marshall, Miss St., Nebraska, South Carolina, South East Louisiana, Southern Miss., Troy, UAB
Eric Simmons 2* MTSU, New Mexico


Stoops' guys
Jason Hatcher 4* Bama, Auburn, UF, UofL, Michigan, ND, OSU, Oklahoma, UT, USC
ZaDaruis Smith 4* FSU, Miami, Mississippi St., Texas, TAMU, WVU
Blake McClain 3* Iowa State, Pitt, Wake, Zona, BC, UC, UConn, FIU, Illinois, IU, UofL, Memphis, MTSU, Mississippi St., Rutgers, USF, WVU
Marcus McWilson 4* Bowling Green, Cal, Illinois, IU, UofL, Michigan St., Nebraska, Purdue, WVU, Youngstown St.
Jaleel Hytchye 3* Arizona St., Ball St., BC, UC, IU, Kent St, UofL, NIU, Northwestern, Penn St., Pitt, Purdue, UT, Toledo, Vandy, WKU

As you can see, not only did Stoops bring in higher rated players, but the three stars he brought in were coveted more by Power 5 teams than Joker's three stars were.

Also, a funny observation is that Glenn Faulkner, one of Joker's highest rated recruits, was the number one player in Illinois, and 8th ranked Safety in the nation, yet Illinois didn't offer, and in fact, UK was his only offer. Yeah, nothing was going on with that guy lol.

 

[The Public Enemy]

Bottom Line with Kentucky and Mark Stoops is this....everything else is just Talk and Fluff...win 6 Games and guess what it is going to be a struggle to win 6 this year.

 

[zipp]

There is no evidence that a three star from a state like Georgia will perform better in college than a three star from a state like Ohio...

You're getting lost... YOU were the guy arguing the opposite as support for Stoops and criticism of Joker, that Ohio recruits are better than Georgia's. There's likely not a significant difference. But if I have to choose, give me kids from the Peach State.

...The 2014 class was loaded with four stars...

LOL! To use use your terminology, you do realize that not all 4-stars are created equal(?) 80% of the 4-star kids in that 2014 LPT class were Rivals rated 5.8 which is low, barely-clearing-the-bar four stars. Among other 5.8s at LPT in recent years: Marcus McWilson, Patrick Towles, Glenn Faulkner, Alex Smith, and Ryan Mossakowski.

None of those guys ever set the world on fire at LPT. Hell, Barker is 5.9 rated, and that guy may never even see the field before he self destructs...

...Recruiting rankings directly correlate with on the field success. This is proven. Take two rosters. Look at their last five recruiting classes. The roster with the higher rated classes wins the game over two thirds of the time. There are over a thousand game results between Power 5 schools that this is based on...

Yeah, tell that to TCU, a team that probably should have played for a national championship last year. And check where their recruiting classes have ranked the last few years. Coaching is a HUGE variable--which kinda sucks for LPT.

...If you need evidence of this in regards to our own rivalry, look at the Rivals recruiting rankings between both schools, then compare that to the record in the series during that time. They have been doing rankings since the 2002 class. More often than not UofL's classes ranked higher than UK's. Surprise, more often than not UofL has won the game.

I love the way LPT fans just make this kinda $hit up... From 2002 through 2014--the 2015 kids haven't played yet--the LPT average class rank has been 52.8 nationally. In that same timeframe, the U of L average has been 51.2. I'll let you call a difference of 1.6 over thirteen years meaningful.

And the football record during that period has been U of L 8-5, with a scoring differential of U of L by six points per game. Over a longer time period, those game results ARE meaningful. Also, going forward, keep in mind that we only had Petrino for five of those thirteen games.

LPT Football: We don't wanna think about that...

 

[RabidCard]

It seems that it's the same talk every off season from the cat fans. We're bigger,
stronger, and faster. With a state of the art training, conditioning and nutrition program.
We have more depth and better recruits coming in. When will that translate to
wins and bowl games? As a friend of mine dad told me, "I've been waiting for next
year for the last 50 years." He also said that he has reached the end of his optimism,
if his beloved cats don't make a bowl game this year, he will be giving up his long
run of being a season ticket holder.
GO CARDS!!

 

[Global Havok]

You're getting lost... YOU were the guy arguing the opposite as support for Stoops and criticism of Joker, that Ohio recruits are better than Georgia's. There's likely not a significant difference. But if I have to choose, give me kids from the Peach State.

You must have me confused with another UK fan. I didn't claim Ohio players were superior to Georgia players, just that the Ohio players UK is getting now are better than the Georgia players UK was getting under Joker. I supported this with star ratings and offer lists.

LOL! To use use your terminology, you do realize that not all 4-stars are created equal(?) 80% of the 4-star kids in that 2014 LPT class were Rivals rated 5.8 which is low, barely-clearing-the-bar four stars. Among other 5.8s at LPT in recent years: Marcus McWilson, Patrick Towles, Glenn Faulkner, Alex Smith, and Ryan Mossakowski.

None of those guys ever set the world on fire at LPT. Hell, Barker is 5.9 rated, and that guy may never even see the field before he self destructs...

Of course not all four star players are the same. They have different tiers for a reason. But, a four star player is generally better than a three star, or at least has the potential to be.

Two of those 5.8 players you mentioned have played one season of football lol. I think I'll wait to pass judgment on them. Ryan had significant injury troubles, including an injury requiring surgery on his throwing shoulder. He transfered to a lower level never to be heard from again.

I referenced Glenn Faulkner earlier when proving a point about the differences in Joker's three stars vs Stoops' three stars. As I've already admitted, not all four stars are the same. Those that follow recruiting saw a red flag with Faulkner. However, his low four star rating wasn't the issue like you are suggesting, but rather he was a four star recruit, best player in his state, eighth ranked Safety in the nation, yet UK was his only offer.

Thanks for bringing him up again.

Yeah, tell that to TCU, a team that probably should have played for a national championship last year. And check where their recruiting classes have ranked the last few years. Coaching is a HUGE variable--which kinda sucks for LPT.

I don't have to tell TCU anything. They had a very successful season. Their last season definitely went against the norm. Below is a link about the impact recruiting has on on the field production. Between 2010 and 2013 there were almost 1,500 games between "BCS" conference teams, including Notre Dame, BYU, and Boise State. The team with the higher rated roster according to Rivals won almost two thirds of the time. That's a bunch of games. I'll take that over one season from TCU.

I love the way LPT fans just make this kinda $hit up... From 2002 through 2014--the 2015 kids haven't played yet--the LPT average class rank has been 52.8 nationally. In that same timeframe, the U of L average has been 51.2. I'll let you call a difference of 1.6 over thirteen years meaningful.

And the football record during that period has been U of L 8-5, with a scoring differential of U of L by six points per game. Over a longer time period, those game results ARE meaningful. Also, going forward, keep in mind that we only had Petrino for five of those thirteen games.

Why would you take the average of 14 years of recruiting classes, when under normal circumstances the recruits would only be at each school for five years at most?

According to Rivals, since 2002 UofL has beaten UK in the recruiting rankings by a tally of 9-5. Keeping in mind that the 2015 class hasn't played a down, in that same stretch UofL leads the series 8-5. You think that's a coincidence?

Petrino and Strong are both good coaches, have an eye for talent, and are great at developing players. Joker was none of those things.

If I'm not mistaken, Strong went 7-6 his first two years at UofL before breaking through his third year. What do you guys think the reasons behind that jump were?

Like Strong's third year I'm expecting an uptick in improvement in Stoops' third year. Granted, not the level Strong's UofL team improved his third year, but improvement nonetheless.

LPT Football: We don't wanna think about that...

http://athlonsports.com/college-football/dont-deny-climate-change-recruiting-rankings-matter

 

[SpotHogCard]

It seems that it's the same talk every off season from the cat fans. We're bigger,
stronger, and faster. With a state of the art training, conditioning and nutrition program.
We have more depth and better recruits coming in. When will that translate to
wins and bowl games? As a friend of mine dad told me, "I've been waiting for next
year for the last 50 years." He also said that he has reached the end of his optimism,
if his beloved cats don't make a bowl game this year, he will be giving up his long
run of being a season ticket holder.
GO CARDS!!

"If you renew, you're not true blue" (evil grin)

 

[Global Havok]

Sorry, not used to the new format on mobile. My post is in my quote of Zipp's post.

 

[zipp]

Recruiting rankings are one factor in a team's success. That's a point often lost on LPT fans who treat recruiting as a sport unto itself.

You've had 20+ NBA draft picks in recent years, and one NCAA basketball title to show for it. Your football program has consistently wasted talent like Bud Dupree who, in his four years, never enjoyed a plane trip back to Lexington after a road win. And it's of course because of coaches like Stupes.

Petrino was a FG away from a national championship with U of L almost ten years ago. That's what coaching is about.

LPT Football: How would we know?...

 

[CATFANFOLIFE87]

Petrino was a FG away from a national championship with U of L almost ten years ago. That's what coaching is about.

LPT Football: How would we know?...

This isn't meant to be a flame or baiting post because that UL team was still a lot better than we were but no team from a non-power 5 conference deserves a title shot ever in my opinion. I've never been a fan of rewarding a perfect run through a bad schedule with the game's biggest prize. I thought the Orange bowl was the right reward for that team win or lose vs Rutgers. Now if he can pull off an 11-1 season in the ACC UL deserves to be in the playoff

 

[rockycard]

Now that the conversation has switched to pro talent, Louisville has never had a top 20 class, only FSU had more drafted than us this year. Coaching >>>> recruiting rankings!!!

 

[HedleyLamarr]

We were two plays from 11 wins last year. Kentucky had a week off , and we had the infamous Notre Dame swoon. Everybody has lost the week after winning at South Bend. Kentucky was horrendous the last six games, and couldn't pull of the Notre Dame swoon upset, against our third string QB. We are going to be better next year, as is Florida, South Carolina, Tennessee, and probably Vandy. Kentucky is going to need to improve a great deal to get back to five wins. Not going to beat the Cards...

 

[zipp]

This isn't meant to be a flame or baiting post because that UL team was still a lot better than we were but no team from a non-power 5 conference deserves a title shot ever in my opinion...

It doesn't matter what you think. YOU don't decide who plays for championships, and what I said was true about that 2006 U of L team.

U of L was also in the Big East at that time which was in the BCS and had a seat at the Big Boy football table. Again, whether an LPT fan thinks that was right or fair is irrelevant.

You're also changing the subject as your various cause-and-effect arguments supporting the rise of LPT football are debunked. Try to stay on topic.

LPT Football: Diversionary tactics in action...

 

[CATFANFOLIFE87]

You're also changing the subject as your various cause-and-effect arguments supporting the rise of LPT football are debunked. Try to stay on topic.

LPT Football: Diversionary tactics in action...

You can't be reasoned with. There is no way you actually believe some of the stuff you post. Lumping thousands of 3 star players into one category as if a near four star is the same as a near 2 star. Talking smack about lowly 5.8 four stars like they're chumps for being the lowest of the four stars. You'll say anything just to disagree with a UK fan even if it's the most asinine thing ever. No one that's being honest with themselves could even try to argue that Joker recruited in the same stratosphere as Stoops does with a straight face. Stoops had two commits go dominate the Rivals 5 star challenge. The event only invites 100 players and some of them are 2017 guys. One of them has been committed for 2 years and did so before he had a Rivals profile. Now he's a top 150 player with offers from Bama/FSU and poised for another jump in the rankings. Our weak 3 star corner Tobias Gilliam tested out in the 99th percentile of the Nike SPARQ combine and is getting calls from OSU, Michigan, Wisconsin, Nebraska, and others. Stoops indentified them long before there was any reason to know who they were. Coaches and recruiting analysts alike know that our staff has an eye for talent. Petrino follows Justin Rowland on Twitter look it up. Justin accidentally tweeted an old Twitter handle for a player Stoops offered and Petrino followed the Twitter account no longer in use because he keeps tabs on what our staff is doing. Why would he care if he didn't think it would be beneficial to do so?

 

[zipp]

If you look back, you'll notice who it is that's trying to exaggerate differences in these three-star kids from different states and going to different colleges. Unless all other factors are equal--which is never the case in the real world--small differences in recruiting do not matter to your final results. Tranlsated: if you have an unproven commodity like Stupes on the sidelines, you better have a LOT better players to go up against other SEC schools or coaches like Petrino.

And if Petrino wants to know if a certain prospect is interested in LPT, it's probably to find out how much gray matter the kid has. He doesn't want anything to do with what he calls "slapd!cks".

LPT Football: Why does he call us that?...

 

[Global Havok]

If you look back, you'll notice who it is that's trying to exaggerate differences in these three-star kids from different states and going to different colleges. Unless all other factors are equal--which is never the case in the real world--small differences in recruiting do not matter to your final results. Tranlsated: if you have an unproven commodity like Stupes on the sidelines, you better have a LOT better players to go up against other SEC schools or coaches like Petrino.

And if Petrino wants to know if a certain prospect is interested in LPT, it's probably to find out how much gray matter the kid has. He doesn't want anything to do with what he calls "slapd!cks".

LPT Football: Why does he call us that?...

I think Petrino is interested in some of the same recruits UK is interested in because both staffs have an eye for talent and like good players.

Stoops' ability as a HC has every reason to be doubted until proven otherwise, but the man and his staff are great at targeting lower ranked guys before they "blow up". The end of last year's recruiting cycle is proof of that. As are the guys already committed this class that are making names for themselves. Landon Young has been committed for almost two years. He just went ffom unranked three star to a four star top 150 player nationally.

As I said, his ability as a HC should be questioned, but there's no doubt he can coach and develop guys. Some of his highest draft picks have been three stars. Also, I took this from his bio...

Stoops was defensive coordinator at FSU from 2010-12, inheriting a unit ranked 108th in the NCAA in total defense and turning it into one of the nation's best. In the 2012 season, the Seminoles were second in the nation in total defense, allowing 254.1 yards per game, and sixth nationally in scoring defense at 14.7 points per game. Playing well against the run and the pass, FSU was third in the country in rushing defense and led the nation in pass defense. FSU led the ACC in seven defensive categories. Stoops also coached the defensive backs under head coach Jimbo Fisher.

Stoops also inherited an Arizona unit that was 109th in the nation in total defense and 107th in scoring defense in 2003, the year before he arrived. By the end of his term at Arizona, the Wildcats ranked in the nation's top 25 in total defense his final two seasons and ranked as high as 33rd in scoring defense.

 

[Cue Card]

As I said, his ability as a HC should be questioned, but there's no doubt he can coach and develop guys.

What? Talk out of both sides of your mouth much?

 

[Global Havok]

What? Talk out of both sides of your mouth much?

Not at all. He still needs to prove he can game plan, make sound decisions in game, adjust his philosophies to suit his roster, make position hires, etc.

 

[HedleyLamarr]

Stoops also recruited and developed the best defensive backfield in the country at Miami, from 2001-2003. His bio on the UK Athletics website brags that he recruited Antrell Rolle and Sean Taylor, who are two of the guys Nevin Shapiro claims to have secured for the Canes, some five years before Clint Hurtt became a coach there. Hmmmm. Makes you wonder about Kentucky's new found recruiting success...

 

[The Public Enemy]

Stoops also recruited and developed the best defensive backfield in the country at Miami, from 2001-2003. His bio on the UK Athletics website brags that he recruited Antrell Rolle and Sean Taylor, who are two of the guys Nevin Shapiro claims to have secured for the Canes, some five years before Clint Hurtt became a coach there. Hmmmm. Makes you wonder about Kentucky's new found recruiting success...

A Fact that many Outside of Jefferson County Kentucky that are Football Followers refuse to accept...it is what it is....

 

[Global Havok]

Stoops also recruited and developed the best defensive backfield in the country at Miami, from 2001-2003. His bio on the UK Athletics website brags that he recruited Antrell Rolle and Sean Taylor, who are two of the guys Nevin Shapiro claims to have secured for the Canes, some five years before Clint Hurtt became a coach there. Hmmmm. Makes you wonder about Kentucky's new found recruiting success...

Either that or it could have something to do with Stoops recruiting Ohio hard, where he has strong ties and is very much respected. It also probably helped having Brown and Marrow on staff, two guys Rivals ranked in the top 50 recruiters in the nation.