Proceed with caution

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

I don't disagree with most of that. A major turnaround in any situation starts when you recognize the real problem.

9 times outta 10, people who care wanna hear that you understand that you're the problem--not others around you now and not people in your life many years ago.

There's not enough evidence IMO that U of L understands that. They arrogantly pi$$ed off too many people in the aftermath of Pitino, thinking they knew what they were doing. They obviously did not (know), and a large and alienated part of the fanbase needs to hear that mea culpa.

Otherwise, the road back will continue to be slow, costly, and maybe unsuccessful. And the more of that that happens, the more of it is on U of L. They're in charge of this train wreck...

A lot goes into it.

I think we probably need to think outside of our comfort zone and pretend we are a SR HS player.

If you are a SR HS player and you can pick just about any destination to go, why would you come here? The things that we as fans know and care about do not register with a kid that age right now that is seeking their 1-2 year home as a college player.

All the SR HS player knows of UofL basketball is it's a dumpster fire off court and I guarantee you oppositional coaches in recruiting are reminding them of that.

Same applies to that HC fraternity. No dude is throwing his career away on this right now either. So we get the legacy that has ties to UK that has never coached. We pretend he got hired for his recruiting chops. He probably got hired because nobody else fans had heard of were interested.

We could go on forever. I just think we're in a little denial if we want to point a finger "here" or "there" with this disaster.

It's the Titanic, and it's been that way for a long time. Good luck getting anyone in today's America to admit something is their fault.

 

[Mayoman]

What a depressing thread. Maybe its just me and I am feeling sick with COVID crud...but I have not ever been too interested in BB until FB it over. To me...Nov and December has always been about getting prepared for the conference games of Jan-Mar and the NCAAT. IOW...work out the kinks and the bad habits....build team chemistry and learning how to play together and win.

I may be wrong bout this...but it seemed to me that is how Denny built his teams up too. I remember one season around theearly to mid 80's when the Cards were highly ranked in the preseason and started out something like 2-9 and everyone in the media and the fans were writing them off, etc. etc.

Then getting into Jan-Feb things began to click and the team pulled together and righted the ship and went on to a 20 win season and good NCAAT appearance. I don't remember the year but it could have been one of the teams Payne played on. If it is....he may have that in the back of his mind IDK.

For my peace of mind...I just don't take CBB too serious until conference games get into it and it is truly on the front burner...after even all the bowl games. Than is just me and my opinion. Life is too damn short to stress out over the Cards BB team this early in the season. I try my best not to stress over things beyond my control. May be a word to the wise in that nugget.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

What a depressing thread.

Welcome to Louisville basketball the last 7 + years.

They just went 13-19, the last HC walked away from the program by choice, and lost an exhibition to a D2 team w/o it's top players to usher in the new era.

No finger pointing from me, it is what it is.

It's a chance to gain a better understanding on humility.

 

[the artist FKA zipp]

You have to understand or at least analyze the problem to make reasonable guesses how to fix it. Fans run wild with too many theories that are half baked. Many don't even make sense.

And as @Ipartiedwithhopgood points out without saying so, we're scraping bottom in men's basketball--or at least we hope this is near the bottom. The differences in a short period of time are striking.

Is it recruiting? I don't think so. Sure we could always have better recruits. But Pitino was making Final Fours with kids ranked no higher as high school seniors than we have now. Talent-wise, these guys are no worse than most teams in the NCAA tourney.

Is it coaching? Payne's an unknown commodity, but Mack was pretty highly regarded when he got here. Not in Pitino's league, but heading in that direction. And he flamed out pretty quickly.

Is it money? Sure could be. There's obviously less operating revenue in men's basketball than there has been in years. And the first thing we did when clowns agreed to funnel another $2-1/2 million to the arena in 2017 was rob men's basketball of those funds. Five years later, the program receives 30% less financial support than it did in Pitino's last year.

Is it leadership? We went from one of the elite ADs in the country to two guys in succession with no direct experience. It's not a formula for success when your cash cow is having big problems and you're hiring dairy farmers in training.

Is it fan support? No question that men's basketball has seen a huge decline in that respect the last five years. Moreover, the numbers keep declining. If people were seeing progress, it makes no sense that we would keep spiraling down in attendance and fan support.

Is it the NCAA overhang? Doesn't appear to have hurt other schools in our situation. I don't hear about new fans lining up to buy tickets once the IARP announcement is in our rear view mirror. It's obviously not helping, but there is no athletic program anywhere that has fallen so far with so little in the way of actual NCAA penalties.

As @Ipartiedwithhopgood said above "a lot goes into it." You're not fixing one thing or have one event pass to get back to normal. Too much of men's basketball has been damaged, undermined, and neglected for there to be a simple solution to the problem...

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

You have to understand or at least analyze the problem to make reasonable guesses how to fix it. Fans run wild with too many theories that are half baked. Many don't even make sense.

And as @Ipartiedwithhopgood points out without saying so, we're scraping bottom in men's basketball--or at least we hope this is near the bottom. The differences in a short period of time are striking.

Is it recruiting? I don't think so. Sure we could always have better recruits. But Pitino was making Final Fours with kids ranked no higher as high school seniors than we have now. Talent-wise, these guys are no worse than most teams in the NCAA tourney.

Is it coaching? Payne's an unknown commodity, but Mack was pretty highly regarded when he got here. Not in Pitino's league, but heading in that direction. And he flamed out pretty quickly.

Is it money? Sure could be. There's obviously less operating revenue in men's basketball than there has been in years. And the first thing we did when clowns agreed to funnel another $2-1/2 million to the arena in 2017 was rob men's basketball of those funds. Five years later, the program receives 30% less financial support than it did in Pitino's last year.

Is it leadership? We went from one of the elite ADs in the country to two guys in succession with no direct experience. It's not a formula for success when your cash cow is having big problems and you're hiring dairy farmers in training.

Is it fan support? No question that men's basketball has seen a huge decline in that respect the last five years. Moreover, the numbers keep declining. If people were seeing progress, it makes no sense that we would keep spiraling down in attendance and fan support.

Is it the NCAA overhang? Doesn't appear to have hurt other schools in our situation. I don't hear about new fans lining up to buy tickets once the IARP announcement is in our rear view mirror. It's obviously not helping, but there is no athletic program anywhere that has fallen so far with so little in the way of actual NCAA penalties.

As @Ipartiedwithhopgood said above "a lot goes into it." You're not fixing one thing or have one event pass to get back to normal. Too much of men's basketball has been damaged, undermined, and neglected for there to be a simple solution to the problem...

Different opinions makes the world go round.

I don't have any major disagreements with your post.

But there is an elephant in the room, distinction. And I think you have chosen from the beginning to minimize "off court" stuff. Hey that's your opinion. I'm not trying to insult you but I have no idea how any fan can down play all that crap.

What you reference to be "NCAA Overhang" I call something else. I see it as scandal after scandal, self destructive humiliation that literally destroyed a traditional power program and it carries a lot more weight than what you want to assign it, especially from that national perspective.

So you frame that stuff as "overhang" which doesn't really tell the story. Sorry "overhang" is a little closer to status quo than the dumpster fire activity it actually is.

To keep from posting a novel (too late!). A few things to add to your list.

In the last 7 years you have 5 different HC's, 3 different athletic directors, and 3 different Presidents. You've had one round of hookers or strippers and a couple dances with the FBI. You had the Grand Poobah have sex on a restaurant table and he got extorted. This is not normal.

The program reputation is a laughing stock at best and obliterated at worst. So you aren't sniffing the type of HC you want (I recall you lobbing Tony Bennett) because hate to say it but the rest of this fraternity of coaches and agents see this for what it is. Amazingly toxic.

I'm sorry this is not status quo and goes well beyond anything else any other program is going through or has gone through. There's nobody in the neighborhood. There is no comparison. Maybe Baylor, though there issues were actually worse. Took Drew a decade to steer it. But anyway, our program got obliterated via off court self destruction. Bottom line.

We can play semantics and walk through who to blame for how we got here. But no need I respect your analysis in this regard. Absolutely. People in charge f'ed it all up but it was unprecedented scandal after scandal.

And to the one point about your recruiting #'s I don't know why you are comparing the results one of the best HC's of the game of all time gave us as opposed to what any of the 4 guys after him have given and will give us if the rankings align. None of the dudes after Pitino are HOF level, and only one was really on paper qualified to be here. And he chose to walk due to one of the issues I mentioned above.

It's a train wreck. No need to put lipstick on a pig because we do love our Cards and tradition but this is not what we grew up loving.

But I do think if the early news from IARP is accurate, it is finally time to see if we can avoid anymore humiliation and FINALLY get on a good path.

Novel. Sorry.

 

[the artist FKA zipp]

Different opinions makes the world go round.

I don't have any major disagreements with your post.

But there is an elephant in the room, distinction. And I think you have chosen from the beginning to minimize "off court" stuff. Hey that's your opinion. I'm not trying to insult you but I have no idea how any fan can down play all that crap.

What you reference to be "NCAA Overhang" I call something else. I see it as scandal after scandal, self destructive humiliation that literally destroyed a traditional power program and it carries a lot more weight than what you want to assign it, especially from that national perspective.

So you frame that stuff as "overhang" which doesn't really tell the story. Sorry "overhang" is a little closer to status quo than the dumpster fire activity it actually is.

To keep from posting a novel (too late!). A few things to add to your list.

In the last 7 years you have 5 different HC's, 3 different athletic directors, and 3 different Presidents. You've had one round of hookers or strippers and a couple dances with the FBI. You had the Grand Poobah have sex on a restaurant table and he got extorted. This is not normal.

The program reputation is a laughing stock at best and obliterated at worst. So you aren't sniffing the type of HC you want (I recall you lobbing Tony Bennett) because hate to say it but the rest of this fraternity of coaches and agents see this for what it is. Amazingly toxic.

I'm sorry this is not status quo and goes well beyond anything else any other program is going through or has gone through. There's nobody in the neighborhood. There is no comparison. Maybe Baylor, though there issues were actually worse. Took Drew a decade to steer it. But anyway, our program got obliterated via off court self destruction. Bottom line.

We can play semantics and walk through who to blame for how we got here. But no need I respect your analysis in this regard. Absolutely. People in charge f'ed it all up but it was unprecedented scandal after scandal.

And to the one point about your recruiting #'s I don't know why you are comparing the results one of the best HC's of the game of all time gave us as opposed to what any of the 4 guys after him have given and will give us if the rankings align. None of the dudes after Pitino are HOF level, and only one was really on paper qualified to be here. And he chose to walk due to one of the issues I mentioned above.

It's a train wreck. No need to put lipstick on a pig because we do love our Cards and tradition but this is not what we grew up loving.

But I do think if the early news from IARP is accurate, it is finally time to see if we can avoid anymore humiliation and FINALLY get on a good path.

Novel. Sorry.

I'm not excusing bad behavior. But you gotta weigh the significance of this stuff.

I had a physical therapist today in her 30s from southern IN ask me what today's announcement was about. Now pan out nationally and ask the average person what went down at Louisville and who were the actors involved. Let me know how many people in 2022 can give you accurate answers.

The one thing we have successfully carried over from 2022 is an ongoing disaster in the athletics dept. It's pretty clear from today's announcement and other past findings--and lack thereof--that WE are responsible for most of what we have now.

It's time that those of us making excuses, compartmentalizing, and wearing blinders come to grips with that...

 

[Thecycle27]

We have programs that are a model of success. They have the same common traits.

1) They recruit at a high level.
2) They have a culture of winning top to bottom.
3)They have great coaches.

It is really that simple. We over analyze the problems. Better talent better coaches with high standards is the formula. Pitinio is a unicorn in that he could take average players and do extraordinary things. Keep in mind his title team was loaded with talent.

In the ACC you aren’t winning consistently without really good talent and coaching.

 

[TheRealVille]

Different opinions makes the world go round.

I don't have any major disagreements with your post.

But there is an elephant in the room, distinction. And I think you have chosen from the beginning to minimize "off court" stuff. Hey that's your opinion. I'm not trying to insult you but I have no idea how any fan can down play all that crap.

What you reference to be "NCAA Overhang" I call something else. I see it as scandal after scandal, self destructive humiliation that literally destroyed a traditional power program and it carries a lot more weight than what you want to assign it, especially from that national perspective.

So you frame that stuff as "overhang" which doesn't really tell the story. Sorry "overhang" is a little closer to status quo than the dumpster fire activity it actually is.

To keep from posting a novel (too late!). A few things to add to your list.

In the last 7 years you have 5 different HC's, 3 different athletic directors, and 3 different Presidents. You've had one round of hookers or strippers and a couple dances with the FBI. You had the Grand Poobah have sex on a restaurant table and he got extorted. This is not normal.

The program reputation is a laughing stock at best and obliterated at worst. So you aren't sniffing the type of HC you want (I recall you lobbing Tony Bennett) because hate to say it but the rest of this fraternity of coaches and agents see this for what it is. Amazingly toxic.

I'm sorry this is not status quo and goes well beyond anything else any other program is going through or has gone through. There's nobody in the neighborhood. There is no comparison. Maybe Baylor, though there issues were actually worse. Took Drew a decade to steer it. But anyway, our program got obliterated via off court self destruction. Bottom line.

We can play semantics and walk through who to blame for how we got here. But no need I respect your analysis in this regard. Absolutely. People in charge f'ed it all up but it was unprecedented scandal after scandal.

And to the one point about your recruiting #'s I don't know why you are comparing the results one of the best HC's of the game of all time gave us as opposed to what any of the 4 guys after him have given and will give us if the rankings align. None of the dudes after Pitino are HOF level, and only one was really on paper qualified to be here. And he chose to walk due to one of the issues I mentioned above.

It's a train wreck. No need to put lipstick on a pig because we do love our Cards and tradition but this is not what we grew up loving.

But I do think if the early news from IARP is accurate, it is finally time to see if we can avoid anymore humiliation and FINALLY get on a good path.

Novel. Sorry.

Now we know there was only one scandal and 2 accusations of scandalous behavior.

The Andre McGee fiasco is indeed a scandal that if not for the FBI sting years later would be the only perceived scandal and Pitino and Jurich would probably still be at Louisville.

So this scandal after scandal commentary is not true according to today's press conference. Pitino wasn't guilty of anything in the Bowen recruitment and he wasn't found responsible for what Johnson and Fair allegedly did.

The small penalties handed down today would not be considered a scandal.

UofL was a victim of the NCAA dogged determination to get Pitino in their efforts to aide the FBI sting and this is what has led to the assumption of more scandals the past five years.

Today, the truth is there were no scandalous behavior after the McGee scandal. UofL did not respond the best way and everyone assumed that the program was guilty again. Firing Jurich and Pitino the way they did gave the impression they were guilty.

If you ask college hoops fans throughout the country what do they think of Louisville hoops, they're going to say it's a multiple defender and a scandalous program.

Hopefully today's announcement will set the record straight. UofL had one scandal in the past 10 years and because the FBI sting happened so soon after the program was sanctioned for that scandal, it appeared that the program once again was guilty of infractions.

That led to the events that has led the program to where it's at today. It was unjust and typical of the NCAA but now it's over and maybe, just maybe, things will go back to where it should be with Louisville basketball.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

Now we know there was only one scandal and 2 accusations of scandalous behavior.

The Andre McGee fiasco is indeed a scandal that if not for the FBI sting years later would be the only perceived scandal and Pitino and Jurich would probably still be at Louisville.

So this scandal after scandal commentary is not true according to today's press conference. Pitino wasn't guilty of anything in the Bowen recruitment and he wasn't found responsible for what Johnson and Fair allegedly did.

The small penalties handed down today would not be considered a scandal.

UofL was a victim of the NCAA dogged determination to get Pitino in their efforts to aide the FBI sting and this is what has led to the assumption of more scandals the past five years.

Today, the truth is there were no scandalous behavior after the McGee scandal. UofL did not respond the best way and everyone assumed that the program was guilty again. Firing Jurich and Pitino the way they did gave the impression they were guilty.

If you ask college hoops fans throughout the country what do they think of Louisville hoops, they're going to say it's a multiple defender and a scandalous program.

Hopefully today's announcement will set the record straight. UofL had one scandal in the past 10 years and because the FBI sting happened so soon after the program was sanctioned for that scandal, it appeared that the program once again was guilty of infractions.

That led to the events that has led the program to where it's at today. It was unjust and typical of the NCAA but now it's over and maybe, just maybe, things will go back to where it should be with Louisville basketball.

My point is not about what it fair or unfair.

My point is all this off the court stuff lead to the destruction of the program. If people want to focus more on how it was all handled and who gets exonerated okay but it still doesn't change the bottom line. We put ourselves in position to get investigated multiple times and the process destroyed the program.

The die is cast.

Today's announcement stops the bleeding.

We didn't get the time machine we would really need to feel better.

We don't get Pitino and TJ back. Or get to replay the seasons (yes 1 season was good and another season not so bad).

We don't get to do the job searches over.

The reputation does not get repaired really. It requires new faces and a lot of time to pass to achieve all that.

We enter this season predicted to run 13th in the ACC and the last 7 years overall have been hell for a UofL basketball fan.

Prior to all the off court garbage we were locked in T10 program, now we are rock bottom.

Yesterday's announcement doesn't change any of that, but it now sets us free moving forward.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

I'm not excusing bad behavior. But you gotta weigh the significance of this stuff.

I had a physical therapist today in her 30s from southern IN ask me what today's announcement was about. Now pan out nationally and ask the average person what went down at Louisville and who were the actors involved. Let me know how many people in 2022 can give you accurate answers.

The one thing we have successfully carried over from 2022 is an ongoing disaster in the athletics dept. It's pretty clear from today's announcement and other past findings--and lack thereof--that WE are responsible for most of what we have now.

It's time that those of us making excuses, compartmentalizing, and wearing blinders come to grips with that...

Again, I'm not looking to dispute blame or celebrate exoneration for some involved, but I understand why that might be important for some fans.

Yesterday's announcement closes the door on this disaster.

No more excuses, though they probably deserve a pass on it for this year. After yesterday's announcement you're not going to hear excuses anymore.

As stated above they didn't hand us a time machine. We don't have Rick and TJ back. We don't get a do-over on the job searches post Pitino.

We were hanging out @ the top, now we are @ the bottom. And I don't think some hand-written or real thoughtful apology from somebody in the administration to the fans is gonna erase the past or really help in any way moving forward.

A good start will be not putting ourselves in position to be investigated. Let's hope the current regime can handle that expectation.

 

[OldhamCard335]

During the IARP press conference yesterday WLKY was showing split screen images of past BB games during the Pitino era. It was absolutely heartbreaking. Seeing those players executing like they did and seeing the YUM center packed with cheering fans just tore at my heart strings. Grief was what I was feeling. It’s like all that energy died and will never be back again. Juxtaposed to the two exhibition games we’ve played the two eras, then and now, don’t even seem related. Denny Crum and Rick Pitino ain’t walking through that door and I don’t see KP filling those shoes. The joy of yesterday’s announcements has disappeared and left me with a dreading that our once great basketball program is gone and won’t be coming back. Heartbreaking.

 

[Mike'sMarbles]

Yesterday was good news but the bad news is the destruction the NCAA inflicted on us through unofficial penalties won't just disappear. We have to live with that damage for many years to come.

I don't know whether the BOT, President and AD are focused on restoring the program.

I don't know what the school leaders' real priorities are. Our interim President pledged allegiance to the UK flag.

The only real sign of success we've seen is in football recruiting which with NIL is the one thing that's outside of the University's control.

You could easily think that UK was tired of our success, the Year of the Cardinal, 2013 Championship, Sugar Bowl, etc, and they decided to put an end to it when they saw an opportunity. How many members of the BOT are UK fans?

I also suspect the NCAA will find ways to continue their unofficial punishment of our program. They've already banned us from post-season play through the Selection Committee twice (Padgett year, and one of Mack's years). I expect that to continue for a long, long time.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

Yesterday was good news but the bad news is the destruction the NCAA inflicted on us through unofficial penalties won't just disappear. We have to live with that damage for many years to come.

Exactly. The damage is done and remains ongoing. But yippee for those exonerated.

 

[Knucklehank1]

Tonight shows the damage that was done. Another year of no NCAA tourney. The a-holes at the NCAA ultimately enacted their sanctions.

 

[the artist FKA zipp]

...I don't know whether the BOT, President and AD are focused on restoring the program.

I don't know what the school leaders' real priorities are. Our interim President pledged allegiance to the UK flag...

The basketball budget was cut significantly in 2018, in the vicinity of 30%.

And it hasn't come close to matching inflation the last five years.

This shows where our priorities lies...