Petrino is lost

[zipp]

...I don't think it's some strange coincidence either that the running game became more effective when Bolin came in given that wake forest knew they had to play the pass more.

I don't think it's a coincidence that anything improves when Bolin comes in, as he/it did against LPT and Houston. When the opposing D prepares for one style of play and a completely different style is put to them, it takes time to react. And I'll give Bolin credit for coming in when he gets the chance firing on all cylinders. He doesn't need any warm-up throws.

But that's not the whole game, and it's not facing a defense that prepares for you. Bolin's a good, serviceable QB. But he ain't good enough to lead this offense successfully with all of its weaknesses against good defenses prepared for you, anymore than Jackson is...

 

[zipp]

I'm not going full blown conspiracy. I'm seeing us stick to an offensive system that's been unproductive all season.

Don't confuse theory/opinion to be anything more than it is.

Petrino cannot recruit at a high level given his reputation. I don't see how that can be argued, at the very least there is a bit of truth to that. So he relies on these coordinators to do some real lifting in that department. The players may not be receiving promises from McGee and TG, but they are being brought as fits for McGee and Grantham's schemes - which is perfectly fine, if those systems are effective.

It's not so much what Bolin did directly Zipp. It's just having a throwing threat back there that forced the defense to honor that. Bolin was able to hit Staples on short passes with ease, something our other QBs haven't shown consistency with. Bolin engineered a drive from his own territory to the red zone. Brutal play calling thwarted it in the end. We were able to line up and run some straight handoffs and it's no coincidence Jeremy Smith found success given this development of who was playing QB.

I love your posts but I'm going to say just because Petrino told you something on a call-in show doesn't make it true. Coaches lie, especially to fans.

I enjoy yours as well, hop, but beauty is obviously in the eye of the beholder.

I don't understand much strategic value in Petrino's OC position because Petrino runs the offense in every respect. All you have to do to recognize that is sit there and listen to him talk about it. IMO he could (and does as much as he can) effectively coach any position on that side of the ball. It's why I laugh to myself when I hear someone like Hank gripe time and again about Klenakis and the O-line as if Petrino has surrendered all O-line coaching responsibilities. It's ridicuous. (Now, defense is another story...)

Unfortunately, none of us see changes in an actual game in isolation or in a controlled setting. As Cue pointed out, when Bolin came in the game, the Wake D had already worked 3-1/2 quarters. And now they were facing a different offensive scheme. Give the Wake D a week to prepare for Bolin and a fresh start, let's see how well he executes. That's the right comparison.

And BTW, our football recruiting at the moment is the best it has ever been according to rating services. It's one reason I believe so many freshmen--with all of their warts--are in the lineup nowadays...

 

[Knucklehank1]

" It's why I laugh to myself when I hear someone like Hank gripe time and again about Klenakis and the O-line as if Petrino has surrendered all O-line coaching responsibilities. It's ridicuous."

Zipp- What the hell are you talking about? Find one post where I mentioned Klenakis or any other assistant coach. I'll be waiting patiently. If you are going to call someone out, then make sure you have your $hit straight. For the record, I believe Petrino is responsible for the offense. I'm not a big conspiracy theory guy.

 

[shamcard]

Why is there an "obvious power struggle"? What are you seeing that tells you that? I see nothing but Petrino calling plays, good and bad.

BTW, I know he calls all the offensive plays because I personally asked him about three weeks ago. He gave the answer on the radio to thousands of people listening. Why would he lie about that? You think he's covering for McGee?

If that's the case, why is it so important that McGee be here as some of you guys think? What leverage does McGee have to perform poorly and be rewarded so handsomely? Does McGee have undeveloped rolls of film from Arkansas that he's holding over Petrino's head? That conspiracy theory stuff is ridiculous.

I didn't see Bolin tonite do much more than hand the ball off to Smith and complete a few short passes. I DID see him get completely stuffed in the red zone when Wake brought pressure. Poor Kyle's feet might as well be set in concrete.

I'm glad all of these QBs are on the team and get to play in situations where they're needed most. I'm even more glad that Petrino is smart enough and wants to win badly enough to keep pushing buttons, to keep trying to execute better. He has nothing against any of these QBs. He wants to win more than any of us. And he's the guy hovering over the buttons, at least on offense, not McGee or Jurich or anyone in the Walmart photo finishing dept. (Do they still have those?...)

Why is there an "obvious power struggle"? What are you seeing that tells you that? I see nothing but Petrino calling plays, good and bad.

BTW, I know he calls all the offensive plays because I personally asked him about three weeks ago. He gave the answer on the radio to thousands of people listening. Why would he lie about that? You think he's covering for McGee?

If that's the case, why is it so important that McGee be here as some of you guys think? What leverage does McGee have to perform poorly and be rewarded so handsomely? Does McGee have undeveloped rolls of film from Arkansas that he's holding over Petrino's head? That conspiracy theory stuff is ridiculous.

I didn't see Bolin tonite do much more than hand the ball off to Smith and complete a few short passes. I DID see him get completely stuffed in the red zone when Wake brought pressure. Poor Kyle's feet might as well be set in concrete.

I'm glad all of these QBs are on the team and get to play in situations where they're needed most. I'm even more glad that Petrino is smart enough and wants to win badly enough to keep pushing buttons, to keep trying to execute better. He has nothing against any of these QBs. He wants to win more than any of us. And he's the guy hovering over the buttons, at least on offense, not McGee or Jurich or anyone in the Walmart photo finishing dept. (Do they still have those?...)

Zipp, you are too experienced to have laid blame on Bolin's abilities for that sack last night. First of all he was running Bobby Ball 1.0 in getting us from the shadow of our goal to a play away from theirs. CBP called a play action pass that called for Scott , lined up as FB, to brush block the DE and go into the flat (probably as primary receiver), and the TE (operating in the RB position to block the DE. Scott didn't brush the DE and the TE completely missed him, resulting in Bolin's sack. It was a classic CBP play that would have gained yards at little risk, but was completely botched by 2 guys out of the back field.
Bolin did a great job in nearly sealing the win for us, only to have the backs botch that play and the special team blow a very makeable field goal, and almost give up a TD.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

And BTW, our football recruiting at the moment is the best it has ever been according to rating services.

Sure - this illustrates the point I'm making to you. McGee is a big part of these recruiting classes and he's selling them on his system.

 

[shamcard]

In all fairness, that was later in the game too, and the WF defense was getting worn down. That explains why Smith who runs hard was able to gain positive yardage even without sufficient running lanes. He plowed out his own lanes.

Don't misunderstand me. I like Bolin a lot but until the O-line issues are squared away, it doesn't make a whole lot of difference who the skill players are. It all starts with getting the O-line better.

I do not believe an injured Jackson brings more to the table than Bolin. Last night Jackson didn't have the first step to beat the spy they had on him, and, was no better off in avoiding the rush than Bolin. If you want to stay with an injured Jackson so that he can learn to be a pocket passer, that is acoach call. Under the present conditions, I believe Bolin could run Bobby Ball 1.0 more effectively.

 

[CardFan1130]

Sure - this illustrates the point I'm making to you. McGee is a big part of these recruiting classes and he's selling them on his system.

That's ridiculous! It's not McGee's system. If so why do we have a hc?

 

[zipp]

Zipp- What the hell are you talking about? Find one post where I mentioned Klenakis or any other assistant coach. I'll be waiting patiently. If you are going to call someone out, then make sure you have your $hit straight...

I've got my ish straight. You're paranoid. And you're "knuckles".

King Henry X is "hank"...

 

[Rollem Cards]

I gotta say it.

If CBP can't effectively recruit three years after his firing....we may as well disband the Basketball team.

 

[mwatson61]

I'm only suggesting there is a bit of a tug of war in the process - and if you think we invested 1 Million in McGee and pay Grantham 1 Million directly to be minions in the process that's a bit laughable.

Those two coordinators are heavily involved in the recruiting process, and the guys they bring in fit their systems - and these are the guys that play and we build around. It's a perfectly fine strategy when their systems and players produce but when they aren't (the offense) then you get a discussion about it on a message board.

So we now recruit for McGee's and Granthams systems, not Bobby's. Good to know our Head coach is not involved in these recruiting decisions. Are you serious????

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

So we now recruit for McGee's and Granthams systems, not Bobby's. Good to know our Head coach is not involved in these recruiting decisions. Are you serious????

Dude your reading comprehension skills just blow. Re-read the very first sentence in what you just quote posted.

"I'm only suggesting there is a bit of a tug of war"

Do you even know what a tug of war is guy? I have to ask given your response. A tug of war involves two sides that are pulling back and forth.

That does not equal "no involvement" for the HC.

Jesus man.

These assistants are getting paid serious jack and their input is prominent in who is signed, who plays, and what systems we use with those players we bring in. Petrino's reputation forces the need of these type of assistants, in order to pull in players that we need in this league.

 

[CardFan1130]

So we now recruit for McGee's and Granthams systems, not Bobby's. Good to know our Head coach is not involved in these recruiting decisions. Are you serious????

Sadly he is serious. Positively goofygoofy

 

[zipp]

Except for Jurich's input administratively and what Grantham wants to do on defense, Petrino calls the shots with this team.

 

[tkdcoach]

This isn't a "love affair" with Bolin. I am convinced he gives the offense the best chance to succeed right now. Again, yes the o-line is terrible, but as I said in my prior post, there are things a QB can do to mitigate the damage.

Bolin is not the answer, which is how we got to Jackson in the first place. I think there's a lot of wishful thinking about the kid because he is gutsy and that's great.

I agree with mwatson - there's no mystery here - we just don't have a very good OL - just about everything we did off season to shore that up did not. There's some politics going on, among some fans who more or less hate CBP and probably always have. It's a bit premature to be making the kind of era 1 vs. era 2 comparisons that are being made (not just in this thread either) because the underlying personnel situations of 2003/04 and 2014/15 are completely different. JMO, but CBP is not going anywhere so everyone might as well settle down and be a little more patient.

 

[Fern Creek Card]

Good points TKD. Everyone including myself are frustrated. We got to stop judging at this point in the BP era. This changeover in styles is going to take time. Too many young players that are going to get better or get passed up. We have got to know that Bobby knows who should and shouldn't be on the field to give us that best chance to win now and in the future

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

Except for Jurich's input administratively and what Grantham wants to do on defense, Petrino calls the shots with this team. Sorry if this is considered an insult, but you're an idiot thinking otherwise. Truly. Or at a minimum, some sort of conspiracy theorist...

Getting salty with the personal insults Zipp-a-roo.

I don't think Bobby P really wants to be running the read option, and you're an idiot if you think otherwise.

There is something fishy going on behind the scenes. But if you want to provide evidence suggesting you're in the know because of your call-in show experiences, I'll go ahead and let you feel good about that. I shook hands with the Cardinal Bird during the Card March, so I know lots of things too.

 

[EasyCard]

I'm only suggesting there is a bit of a tug of war in the process - and if you think we invested 1 Million in McGee and pay Grantham 1 Million directly to be minions in the process that's a bit laughable.

Those two coordinators are heavily involved in the recruiting process, and the guys they bring in fit their systems - and these are the guys that play and we build around. It's a perfectly fine strategy when their systems and players produce but when they aren't (the offense) then you get a discussion about it on a message board.

So you are not impressed with our freshmen? I sure am. The players who I am not impressed with our the OL who have been hear awhile and can't block anyone. We had the 2ndbest recruiting class ever last year and this year is on pace to be the best.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

So you are not impressed with our freshmen? I sure am. The players who I am not impressed with our the OL who have been hear awhile and can't block anyone. We had the 2ndbest recruiting class ever last year and this year is on pace to be the best.

Uh, I don't think I ever said I wasn't impressed with our freshmen.

Very strange response. My commentary is regarding the system we're using offensively which is failing, and why we are using the offensive system we are using. The staff's refusal to go to Bolin even when Lamar is clearly playing hurt is baffling. It makes absolutely no sense at all and we've witnessed this for two weeks in a row. It is fair to question if our coaching staff is on the same page.

At no point have I mentioned not being impressed with our freshmen.

Your response is just bizarre.

 

[Section 12 Jerk]

I'd like to know more what McGee actually does, not what you guys THINK he does.

So you're not sure what McGee actually does, but your sure it's NOT what these guys are posting? How does that work?

 

[Louisvillian]

This is kind of silly. Garrick McGee is Bobby Petrino's #1 protege and right hand man.

It seems pretty obvious that Bobby is letting Garrick handle the in game play calling while paying close attention to every offensive play. There is an obvious trust factor between the two from their days at Arkansas.

As much as Bobby wishes that Garrick can be his brains as his top assistant he still has to deal with a very young team offensively. He even seems resigned to that fact now.

 

[zipp]

So you're not sure what McGee actually does, but your sure it's NOT what these guys are posting? How does that work?

Works like this... I've heard time and again in this space griping about McGee's offensive scheming and play calling. When I know factually that Petrino calls those shots. So, the well intending people saying that and other stuff about the offense have questionable credibility on that subject.

And that's why I'm not interested in what those good people THINK they know, rather what actually exists...

 

[zipp]

Getting salty with the personal insults Zipp-a-roo.

I don't think Bobby P really wants to be running the read option, and you're an idiot if you think otherwise.

There is something fishy going on behind the scenes. But if you want to provide evidence suggesting you're in the know because of your call-in show experiences, I'll go ahead and let you feel good about that. I shook hands with the Cardinal Bird during the Card March, so I know lots of things too.

Understand my terminology or ask a follow-up question... I don't equate "calling the shots", i.e., making decisions, to teaching the read option if that's what you mean.

If you mean deciding to use the read-option as an offensive tool, the BEST McGee does in that regard is try to influence or provide input. Or unless you think McGee has some sort of leverage (AKA conspiracy theory).

How ridiculous would it be for Petrino to be in charge, have McGee decide the scheme and the set of plays we use, and then have Petrino call the plays? That's like the CEO letting his middle manager set a production plan, and then going down to the production floor to make the widgets himself. IOW nonsense.

What I've heard Petrino say personally I'll put up against what you've heard him say personally. Let me know what that is. And if you theorize he's lying--like when he fibs about a player's injury status--better have a plausible reason for that. And not just because he feels like letting McGee be in charge of something. The logic needs to hang together. Have at it...

 

[zipp]

This is kind of silly. Garrick McGee is Bobby Petrino's #1 protege and right hand man.

It seems pretty obvious that Bobby is letting Garrick handle the in game play calling while paying close attention to every offensive play. There is an obvious trust factor between the two from their days at Arkansas.

As much as Bobby wishes that Garrick can be his brains as his top assistant he still has to deal with a very young team offensively. He even seems resigned to that fact now.

One more time... PETRINO CALLS THE PLAYS. He's not shouting anything else at his Denny's menu on the sidelines. And he SAYS he calls the plays. Why would he lie about that??

Denial ain't just a river in Egypt...

 

[thecycle21]

I think Petrino is lost when comes to figuring out how to run any offense behind a bad line. The other thing is they have faced 7 top fifty defenses. Even good lines will struggle against those kind of defenses. Wake is a solid team defensively. The next three weeks will give us better insight. They should have success against Syracuse and Virginia.

Last thing everyone has to do a better job blocking TE, RB, and WR.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

Works like this... I've heard time and again in this space griping about McGee's offensive scheming and play calling.

Offense is ranked 84th, there's plenty of blame to go around.

Discussing offensive scheming and play calling is part of the reason, but not the whole reason the offense is rated where it's rated.

That's not griping. It's a conversation.

You shouldn't be so offended.

Especially when you readily admitted you don't really know McGee's role - you shouldn't have so much fire about something you're not informed on.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

Works like this... I've heard time and again in this space griping about McGee's offensive scheming and play calling. When I know factually that Petrino calls those shots. So, the well intending people saying that and other stuff about the offense have questionable credibility on that subject.

And that's why I'm not interested in what those good people THINK they know, rather what actually exists...

Translation - You don't know what McGee's involvement is, so you have zero credibility on the topic whatsoever. Since you're hell-bent on credibility, and have none yourself, you should not be responding to any of these posts.

 

[zipp]

Works like this... I've heard time and again in this space griping about McGee's offensive scheming and play calling...

Offense is ranked 84th, there's plenty of blame to go around.

Discussing offensive scheming and play calling is part of the reason, but not the whole reason the offense is rated where it's rated.

That's not griping. It's a conversation.

You shouldn't be so offended.

Especially when you readily admitted you don't really know McGee's role - you shouldn't have so much fire about something you're not informed on.

And if you're gonna quote me, you oughta understand the point. The issue ain't people griping about the offense. The issue is people griping about MCGEE's offense.

It ain't his offense, it's Petrino's. And if you believe otherwise, you've got rocks for brains. Or you don't understand a lick about how Petrino manages. He runs the offense, and his D-coordinator runs the defense. Plain as day.

What I can't understand is why a faction of the griping group here wanna lay the blame for the offense at McGee's feet. Have the balls to question Petrino if you're taking that position. If McGee got fired tomorrow over this offense, I'd be the first guy here crying "cop out". It's Petrino's for better or worse. And why some here are delusional to the point of not assigning him that responsibility is a mystery...

 

[zipp]

Translation - You don't know what McGee's involvement is, so you have zero credibility on the topic whatsoever. Since you're hell-bent on credibility, and have none yourself, you should not be responding to any of these posts.

And I'm still waiting for your personal testimony of what you've heard Petrino say about his offense.

{crickets chirping}

 

[cuzimacardfan]

All this comes down to a terrible offensive line period

I think it all comes down to youth. Our offense has to be one of the youngest in the ACC, if not in the country. These guys all come back next year. Next year and the year after we will be a different teams.

You don't see too many elite teams with the amount of young contributors that we have.

 

[Section 12 Jerk]

And I'm still waiting for your personal testimony of what you've heard Petrino say about his offense.

{crickets chirping}

So you personally heard a coach say something, which makes that a fact from now until eternity, and anyone who provides a differing opinion is an idiot?

Pot, meet kettle.......

 

[wreckcard#22]

Are the results we see really that different than pre-season predictions?? I'm hearing a bunch of hypothesis about play calling, recruiting, QB play...but I recall a pre season post about expectations and I believe most said 7-8 wins because...wait for it...you're going to be blown away by this...every weakness we have experienced is exactly what we thought we'd have trouble with (no need for me to repeat what those are, it's getting ridiculous).

This is the definition of a transition year, next should be better; the next should be even better...just step back and take the long view of our situation.

Or...there's a giant power struggle among the coordinators and there's been some sort of conspiracy to allow LJ be QB vs. the ever so experienced Bolin...is anybody a Free Mason?? are there any signs you can hint as to what REALLY going on here?!?! Quick, get Nicholas Cage to examine the Unitas statue and get Howards pipe (I think there's a hidden map in there).

 

[zipp]

So you personally heard a coach say something, which makes that a fact from now until eternity, and anyone who provides a differing opinion is an idiot?

Pot, meet kettle.......

The "pot, meet kettle" reference is lost on me, but I'll clarify for a jerk...

The comments are from the guy (Petrino) responsible for making the decision with no reason to lie about it that I've heard expressed or can reasonably come up with myself.

The alternate version of reality is secondhand info at best, contrived as to its reasoning or rationality, and articulated by people who are unhappy with Petrino's decision-making, i.e., who have an agenda.

Given those two choices as to what to believe, the decision is easy for me...

 

[zipp]

...but I recall a pre season post about expectations and I believe most said 7-8 wins because...wait for it...you're going to be blown away by this...every weakness we have experienced is exactly what we thought we'd have trouble with (no need for me to repeat what those are, it's getting ridiculous)...

And I'll take your analysis a step further...

Recall it was Vegas that set our over-under win total at SEVEN games. Everyone around here scoffed at that number and said it would be disappointing. Of course, everyone around here is an optimistic fan. Vegas can certainly be regarded as an objective observer of, for example, how many guys we've lost to the NFL the last two years. I myself used the term "reload" about that, and--wait for it--I was wrong. We are who others thought we would be.

The only thing at this point that should be disappointing is that Petrino will not exceed rational expectations. But understand, that's what objective bystanders are saying nine wins would have been--"exceeding expectations". We just don't see things that rationally...

 

[Knucklehank1]

I think a lot of folks were expecting the Year 2 offensive bounce that Petrino teams have experienced. Of course, that bounce has obviously been offset a ton by the youth on offense and by going with a QB that was playing in high school last year, and by abandoning his traditional offense.

 

[Section 12 Jerk]

The "pot, meet kettle" reference is lost on me, but I'll clarify for a jerk...

The comments are from the guy (Petrino) responsible for making the decision with no reason to lie about it that I've heard expressed or can reasonably come up with myself.

The alternate version of reality is secondhand info at best, contrived as to its reasoning or rationality, and articulated by people who are unhappy with Petrino's decision-making, i.e., who have an agenda.

Given those two choices as to what to believe, the decision is easy for me...

Making a choice of what you want to believe is one thing. Calling people idiots who don't agree with you is another. Nice job pointing out that it's only those "idiots" who have an agenda.

 

[thecycle21]

Three things

One-Conference/Coach transition is tougher than fans expected. TCU went through a transition period. WVU is going through the same process. Louisville went into the new conference with a new coach, even if it is one that has been very successful. The talent level isn't where it needs to be to beat FSU/Clemson and it is not good enough to avoid the what the heck type of games.

Two- Offensive line is by far the most difficult position to play early and coach. It is requires great communication and teamwork. That takes time and it is going to take time at Louisville.

Three-They have faced some really good defenses this year.

I expect next year they will be much better on offense and the following year even better.

 

[ThreeCardMonte]

" It's why I laugh to myself when I hear someone like Hank gripe time and again about Klenakis and the O-line as if Petrino has surrendered all O-line coaching responsibilities. It's ridicuous."

Zipp- What the hell are you talking about? Find one post where I mentioned Klenakis or any other assistant coach. I'll be waiting patiently. If you are going to call someone out, then make sure you have your $hit straight. For the record, I believe Petrino is responsible for the offense. I'm not a big conspiracy theory guy.

Hank, you are right on the mark. I might add that zipp is missing the trees for the forest or the oasis for the ocean. I swear I don't know what zipp has been watching. Even with this subpar offensive line - it's abundantly clear that Bolin is not only serviceable - but he is the only quarterback capable of leading this offense effectively. That means moving the ball downfield with checks from the line, progressions, but also allowing a more formidable running game. Our running game with Lamar is basically LJ doing all the running.

To the original question - Bobby needs to get his head out of his derriere and can this experiment with read option quarterback. It ain't working and we have lost a season and a half with Reggie being the guy only because of some strange fantasy with a run-first QB. Get rid of that crap and get back to Bobby ball - with bad offensive line and all. Go with it and pass thy football downfield and do some power running. We an do it this weekend if our coaches pride would allow it. They screwed up - now it's time to get back on the path if only Bobby is honest with himself. The offensive line will show great improvement with pocket passer and power running.

 

[nccardfan]

Ok, what the hell is a rationale expectation? We are currently 0-1 against top 10. Ok we lost by 3. We are also 0-3 against top 30. I would say given that yeah we did expect Bobby to win one of those.

 

[wilkie01]

Many on here cannot fathom the fact that Watson and Strong left Bob Petrino a deplete offense, coupled with an offensive line that would not be good even in G5 football. I say just wait it out , the changes are coming. We will be ok .

 

[zipp]

Making a choice of what you want to believe is one thing. Calling people idiots who don't agree with you is another. Nice job pointing out that it's only those "idiots" who have an agenda.

Pitino said it best..."Success is a Choice." No one accused him of insulting those who don't make that choice.

I'm simply using that approach... If you believe in conspiracy theories centered around Petrino and the offense, you're an idiot. I didn't call anyone that--you make that choice yourself.

Life ain't necessarily bad as an idiot. I think they're unionized in European villages...