ND at Louisville Discussion

NDAFArly

Getting the Hang of It
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In recent history, Notre Dame has not covered when favored by 20 or more
BK doesn’t believe in running up scores, even against Rivals. I can’t count the times he’s ran out the clock inside the opponents 5. Or completely shut it down in the 3rd Q. That’s why it’s so annoying when people commentate on ND games by looking at the final scores instead of watching the game.
I can promise you if ND is up 3 scores in the 2nd half you will see him shut it down.
 

HedleyLamarr

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I honestly couldn’t make a prediction. This team was SO bad last year, but they have talent, and should be able to compete with most teams. Tough to come off of that epic bad year, trying to establish some sense of worth, and have to face a final four quality team. I just don’t know what to expect, and I doubt most Cards fans do. I will say, though, Go Cards. Show some fight.
 

NDAFArly

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Cards score first 3 points of the game, then ND scores next 24 to lead 24-3 at half. Cards score two touchdowns in second half but ND wins going away 37-17
I’m going 41-20.
So one point difference from you.
I think ND starts slow, Chip Long tries to play with his shiny new toys, then BK tells him to knock it off & run the ball. ND’s young LBs are too hyped up & gives up early points. Then ND settles in & controls the 2nd & 3rd quarters. Fourth Quarter is a lot of prevent defense.
 

O'Shea 13

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ND was deep, but in addition to the injuries, the best WR on the roster,Kevin Austin, is also serving a Brian Kelly imposed suspension. So he won’t play either. So three receiving starters (Kmet, Austin, Young) will not play against UL.
Austin might have the most potential but he is not the best WR on ND's roster. That would be Chase Claypool followed by Chris Finke. With Young & Austin out. Finke will either move back to the slot (his natural position) with Keys or Wilkins taking his place. Or (& this is more likely) Keys or Wilkins will play the slot WR. ND's offense will be hurt more by the loss of Kmet than Young & Austin (at least for the UL game).

However, Brock Wright (who was ranked higher coming out of HS than Kmet was) shed some weight & has had a great camp as has Tom Tremble who has ridiculous speed for a TE.
 

O'Shea 13

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You gotta lot of nerve coming onto OUR board and telling one of our posters (Rollem Cards) to “settle down”. You do understand that you are OUR guest here? Right? Your entire post was couched in the attitude of hey Card fans “remember your spot in the college football food chain” and that is nothing but a very rude and over the top attitude. There is very little doubt about the possible end result of ND’s visit here on Sept. 2nd but over the past 10 to 15 years your football program has not been superior to ours. It’s that simple so take a clue and “settle down” as long as you are our guest here.

GO CARDS - BEAT EVERYBODY!!! God Bless America!!!
Louisville's FB team has been superior to Notre Dame's over the past 10-15 years?

Notre Dame has had some down years but what has UL done that is so special?
 
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Notre Dame is going to have a mobile Bookstore at Fourth St Live, August 30, 31, and Sept 1. Big tailgate party at Churchill Downs/Museum on Labor Day.

Going to be an exciting weekend around here.
 

NDAFArly

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Notre Dame is going to have a mobile Bookstore at Fourth St Live, August 30, 31, and Sept 1. Big tailgate party at Churchill Downs/Museum on Labor Day.

Going to be an exciting weekend around here.
I’m surprised ESPN/ACC hasn’t been pushing this game more since it’s the only game on Monday.
 

Louis III

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Louisville's FB team has been superior to Notre Dame's over the past 10-15 years?

Notre Dame has had some down years but what has UL done that is so special?
He did not say that Louisville's football has been more superior, he stated that ND has not been superior to Louisville the last 10-15 years--that is totally different. I think its a fair assessment--we finished top 15 in the final rankings, 5 times and had 2 BCS bowl victories in the last 15 years. I am by NO MEANS stating these 2 programs are on level ground over the past 100 years and everyone understands what ND football means, but the past 15 years the gap is VERY, VERY small!
 

Ara64

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You are correct up until two years ago. ND is experiencing an upswing at this moment. The program's success on the field is very close over the past 15 years.
2 year record: ND 22-4 Louisville 10-15
10 year record: ND 87-41 Louisville 77-51
15 year record: ND 122-68 Louisville 120-70
 
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gocds

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He did not say that Louisville's football has been more superior, he stated that ND has not been superior to Louisville the last 10-15 years--that is totally different. I think its a fair assessment--we finished top 15 in the final rankings, 5 times and had 2 BCS bowl victories in the last 15 years. I am by NO MEANS stating these 2 programs are on level ground over the past 100 years and everyone understands what ND football means, but the past 15 years the gap is VERY, VERY small!
What Louis said. And I, once again, encourage ND fans to realize you are a guest on this board. The majority have respected that and I hope that continues.

GO CARDS - BEAT EVERYBODY!!! God Bless America!!!
 

PHCARD

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I’m going with 28-21. It kills me to go into a game thinking loss, but there’s reality.
 
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gocds

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I’m going with 28-21. It kills me to go into a game thinking loss, but there’s reality.
Gosh I hope you’re right. That would bode well for our confidence going forward. That’s what I’m looking for in the first game. We NEED confidence to boost our chances down the road.

GO CARDS - BEAT EVERYBODY!!! God Bless America!!!
 
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NDAFArly

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I’m going with 28-21. It kills me to go into a game thinking loss, but there’s reality.
Opening games are always sloppy.
Usually the big uglies dominate (OL & DL) and determine the outcome in sloppy games.
ND has a top 10 OL & DL, so that will most likely be the most noticeable difference.
 

NDAFArly

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ND, are you coming to our city for the game?
Yep.
I only live an hour straight north up I-65.
Louisville is much closer & easier to get to for me than South Bend.
I actually come down there quite often.
My wife & I have ran the half marathon there multiple times. I actually had a teammate on the UFC card in 2011 there at the Yum Center so was there for that. And I’ve been to a few Lebowski fests way back.
 

TerryD44

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Dec 2, 2001
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Oh no, I'm not raising the schedule question for that reason. I'm simply trying to understand why things can't be worked out with the ACC to bring ND in as a football playing member. I understand that there will be compromises for everyone. But the ACC can and should make every effort possible to accommodate ND's scheduling wants and wishes. And they can make the financials a wash because of the new revenue that comes into the conference.

I simply think that the ACC hasn't moved far enough with its thinking and proposals. Nor is ND gonna get that kind of arrangement with any other conference it would consider joining, like the Big Ten or SEC...
Its pretty simple. ND sees itself as the national Catholic university. They believe strongly that an independent football program is the best vehicle to showcase that.

It doesn't want to "regionalize" itself by joining a conference. It thinks that playing 8-9 games in a particular conference hamstrings that effort.

As NDFArly said, ND schedules are pretty complex. It wants the flexibility to have Shamrock Series games, "markers" against all of the other conferences, annual games against Navy, Southern Cal and Stanford, plus home/home games with major powers.

Money is not the reason ND is a football independent. ND can make more TV money by joining a conference. It just doesn't want to.

BTW, the ND/NBC contracts runs through 2025. NBC is very happy about ND's ratings, and has renewed the contract every term since 1991.

P.S. ND currently has access to all of the ACC's minor bowl tie ins, now. It is part of the ND/ACC contracts.

P.P.S. ND athletics fully funds all 26 sports it sponsors and returns over $20 million a year to the academic side of the school, so TV money and unequal revenue sharing proposals don't move the needle much for ND to consider joining a football conference.
 
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TerryD44

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Nope. Just a guy who likes justice. I don’t know what has been “clearly documented”. I do know that ND absolutely benefits from ACC membership. It seems to me that ND gets it both ways. They get their big money TV deal as an independent in football, and gets the value of membership in a P5 conference for everything else except hockey. The real value is in football. They keep that to themselves. Fine- it’s a free market. Understand the the ACC ONLY does this in hopes of someday getting football. I don’t like that. Join or don’t.
Actually, ND only gets around $15 million a year from NBC. It is much less than ND could make in the Big Ten or even the ACC. It is no longer a "big money deal".

But, it is enough to allow ND to remain a football independent, which is one of ND's primary goals (along with making the playoffs and playing for a title).

Also, ND hockey is in the Big Ten....so it is also in a "P5" conference. ND hockey has its own NBC Sports TV deal for home games and doesn't get any Big Ten Network money (a setup much like the ND/ACC deal).

Also, the ACC commissioner is on record as saying that it was understood from the beginning that football was not likely to ever join the ACC, so there was no "secret plan" to someday get ND football.
 

TerryD44

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The ACC as it stands has a hierarchy of schools financially. This is because of a variety of reasons, but mostly reflects investment in their athletics. No problem there. But in the marketplace, there should be a set of rules applicable to all. The free market doesn’t work effectively any other way. When one participant gets to play by a different set of rules from others, the free market has been thwarted. ND wants one foot in a Conference, one foot(ball) out, just because they can make more money that way. I am just saying that if they want to do that, fine. Just find another home for the non-football part of your athletics.
It sounds like the free market supports ND being a football independent since the market forces allow it to remain one.

Also, you tout free markets and such but want to force ND to join a voluntary business organization called a conference.
 

zipp

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Its pretty simple. ND sees itself as the national Catholic university. They believe strongly that an independent football program is the best vehicle to showcase that.

It doesn't want to "regionalize" itself by joining a conference. It thinks that playing 8-9 games in a particular conference hamstrings that effort.

As NDFArly said, ND schedules are pretty complex. It wants the flexibility to have Shamrock Series games, "markers" against all of the other conferences, annual games against Navy, Southern Cal and Stanford, plus home/home games with major powers.

Money is not the reason ND is a football independent. ND can make more TV money by joining a conference. It just doesn't want to.

BTW, the ND/NBC contracts runs through 2025. NBC is very happy about ND's ratings, and has renewed the contract every term since 1991.

P.S. ND currently has access to all of the ACC's minor bowl tie ins, now. It is part of the ND/ACC contracts.

P.P.S. ND athletics fully funds all 26 sports it sponsors and returns over $20 million a year to the academic side of the school, so TV money and unequal revenue sharing proposals don't move the needle much for ND to consider joining a football conference.
I'm trying to understand all of that in the context of a schedule like this year's which was discussed earlier in this thread, and I present it again below. The "hypothetical" schedule literally takes you coast-to-coast and border-to-border (California to New York and Michigan to Florida). The upcoming schedule involves teams in states with a total population of 110 million people; the hypothetical schedule, 148 million...

The hypothetical schedule also includes three of the four teams with the longest history of playing ND: USC, Navy, and Pitt.

No one is obviously forcing ND to do anything. But I'm not into things intangible.and psychological. You've already acknowledged it may actually be costing ND financially to not be playing in the ACC. If you can get a schedule like the one I've laid out, I don't understand the problem with taking the best of all worlds. ND deserves that, and I think the ACC can offer it when both sides are ready...
 
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NDAFArly

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I'm trying to understand all of that in the context of a schedule like this year's which was discussed earlier in this thread, and I present it again below. The "hypothetical" schedule literally takes you coast-to-coast and border-to-border (California to New York and Michigan to Florida). The upcoming schedule involves teams in states with a total population of 110 million people; the hypothetical schedule, 148 million...

The hypothetical schedule also includes three of the four teams with the longest history of playing ND: USC, Navy, and Pitt.

No one is obviously forcing ND to do anything. But I'm not into things intangible.and psychological. You've already acknowledged it may actually be costing ND financially to not be playing in the ACC. If you can get a schedule like the one I've laid out, I don't understand the problem with taking the best of all worlds. ND deserves that, and I think the ACC can offer it when both sides are ready...
Because you are choosing one year as your sample.
I can list 50 years of schedules that would disprove your point.
 

TerryD44

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I'm trying to understand all of that in the context of a schedule like this year's which was discussed earlier in this thread, and I present it again below. The "hypothetical" schedule literally takes you coast-to-coast and border-to-border (California to New York and Michigan to Florida). The upcoming schedule involves teams in states with a total population of 110 million people; the hypothetical schedule, 148 million...

The hypothetical schedule also includes three of the four teams with the longest history of playing ND: USC, Navy, and Pitt.

No one is obviously forcing ND to do anything. But I'm not into things intangible.and psychological. You've already acknowledged it may actually be costing ND financially to not be playing in the ACC. If you can get a schedule like the one I've laid out, I don't understand the problem with taking the best of all worlds. ND deserves that, and I think the ACC can offer it when both sides are ready...
ND doesn't want to discard its brand and its identity as a football independent. No scheme from the ACC will change that.

It isn't going to throw away 130 years of tradition and identity as a football independent because fans of other schools think it should.

The only way that ND football joins a conference is if the playoffs become legally mandated as conference champs only.

Short of that, ND football is not joining a conference. The ACC knew this, and legally confirmed and agreed to that status by contracts running through 2037.
 

NDAFArly

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Kevin Austin now suspended for the entire year.
I would expect him to hit the portal soon.
 

zipp

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Because you are choosing one year as your sample.
I can list 50 years of schedules that would disprove your point.
Well, I'm not listing 50 years of data in this detail to make the point. Unless there's something quirky about this year's ND schedule--you guys know that better than me--I question why there wouldn't be a similar schedule analog in any year we sample.

It's the old saying, "where there's the will, there's a way." If you're unwilling to do the analysis, you're probably not going to find a mutually agreeable outcome...
 

zipp

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ND doesn't want to discard its brand and its identity as a football independent. No scheme from the ACC will change that.

It isn't going to throw away 130 years of tradition and identity as a football independent because fans of other schools think it should.

The only way that ND football joins a conference is if the playoffs become legally mandated as conference champs only.

Short of that, ND football is not joining a conference. The ACC knew this, and legally confirmed and agreed to that status by contracts running through 2037.
Yeah, the way I look at "brand" and "identity" and "130 years of tradition" is as a lot of retrospective feel-good stuff. It's analogous to U of L basketball wanting to hold onto rivalries like Memphis and Cincinnati in lieu of joining a better conference. Makes no tangible sense except in one's mind--because outsiders don't see you the way you see yourself.

And the time to cut the best deal for yourself with the ACC is when you don't need to do the deal. You already laid out a scenario (playoff mandate) where ND would come knocking on the ACC's door. Wait until that's obvious or needed, and you won't likely get the ACC accommodating ND with everything it wants schedule-wise. Act while you have the upper hand...
 
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It's pretty clear the ND brass are happy where they are and that's how it's going to be for a long time, possibly our lifetime.

The only way I'd see them hitch up to a league would be if the football playoff required it in some way.
 

zipp

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It's pretty clear the ND brass are happy where they are and that's how it's going to be for a long time, possibly our lifetime.

The only way I'd see them hitch up to a league would be if the football playoff required it in some way.
Could be. But when they HAVE to join a conference IMO they've waited to long to pursue it. At that point, the balance of power shifts to the conference...
 

gocds

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Could be. But when they HAVE to join a conference IMO they've waited to long to pursue it. At that point, the balance of power shifts to the conference...
What you are saying could be true. But the possibility that more than one conference wanted the Irish would diminish your premise that “the balance of power shifts to the conference”. I still think the B1G would be a player for ND as a conference member. Their geographical situation is an advantage for them over the ACC. As I understand the situation the B1G did not want to give ND any extra “benefits” and it appears that the ACC has relented on that point while allowing ND to remain a football independent. Something to consider.

GO CARDS - BEAT EVERYBODY!!! God Bless America!!!
 

Thecycle27

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There is one constant in college football tradition matters. Notre Dame will always be relevant. Even in years they are’t in chase they are relevant. Too big of a fan basement to ignore. Conference doesn’t matter and if it even does matter they will join.

Game wise I will be shocked if they don’t run it often. Louisville couldn’t stop the run last year. Notre Dame is going to try punish them. As the game wears on Louisville will fade. I think Louisville will be more competitive but not enough quality depth.
 
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Rollem Cards

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That would bode well for our confidence going forward
Now you know that won’t happen. ;)

Should lose close (10 or less) or heaven forbid win, all we’ll hear is how sloppy ND was and how they overlooked a terrible team like us.:eek:

Mark it down.
 

cardfan16

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It sounds like the free market supports ND being a football independent since the market forces allow it to remain one.

Also, you tout free markets and such but want to force ND to join a voluntary business organization called a conference.
If UofL fans were in the same position as ND, they would say the same thing. It's obvious that ND values their independence, and based on the fact that they have not been "forced" to join a conference, everyone else is okay with this as well.

There may come a point in time that they WILL have to join a conference, but we aren't there now, and it doesn't appear we will be there any time soon. Honestly I am okay with the current landscape.

Let's review. On this year's schedule:

ND at HOME. (Are you freaking kidding me!! Never thought this would happen in my lifetime)
Clemson at HOME (Defending national champion)
Miami at Miami (Florida always a great place to play)
FSU at Doak (See above)

That is FOUR top notch games. It wasn't that long ago that we would have been filled with joy for ONE of these games. Add to that we still have games scheduled with ND for:

2020
2023 - HOME
2026
2030 - HOME
2032
2033
2035

Yes, I am more than fine with this landscape.
 

zipp

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What you are saying could be true. But the possibility that more than one conference wanted the Irish would diminish your premise that “the balance of power shifts to the conference”. I still think the B1G would be a player for ND as a conference member. Their geographical situation is an advantage for them over the ACC. As I understand the situation the B1G did not want to give ND any extra “benefits” and it appears that the ACC has relented on that point while allowing ND to remain a football independent. Something to consider.

GO CARDS - BEAT EVERYBODY!!! God Bless America!!!
You think the acrimony that reportedly exists between ND and some elements of the Big Ten would be diminished if the Irish knock on their door with hat in hand? I kinda doubt it.

And no one would negotiate with ND now to offer them anything like the ACC could/would. It just takes both sides wanting that negotiation...
 

Ara64

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We all know that ND isn't doing anything before 2037. They're not about to fork over 50 million dollars and their media rights for another conference. There's way too much bad blood for ND ever to join the Big Whatever. You don't soon forget betrayal and Michigan (who taught ND the game of football) and Ohio State trying to strangle your football program in 1925. It was that situation that forced Rockne to take his Ramblers on the road. It took ND from a regional school to national phenomenon and the beginning of ND subway alumni. Sorry about the short history lesson. The only thing that would alter the course of ND athletics would be if athletes started getting paid like other school employees. They've already made provision to join a conference if necessary. I think it's only a matter of time before ND joins the ACC.
 
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