ND at Louisville Discussion

NDAFArly

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Fall practices start this weekend & then just a month until kickoff. Usually the first opponent gets more discussion because of the offseason instead of a week before the game.
I know Louisville is harder to discuss because of the new coaching staff & most aren’t sure what to expect.
Either way, now is as good as time as any to get the opener discussion started. We can use this thread to discuss the two teams during fall camp & the matchup on Labor Day night.
Feel free to ask any questions about ND’s team this year & we will try to answer them the best we can.
Hopefully the thread can stay civil & create a good football dialogue.
 
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Ky fans will be more than happy to chime in. They are experts at everything on this board, or so they think.

Did you know they have 8 National Championships in Basketball? They are looking to nab #9 this year because Cal has really got a great recruiting class coming in. This class just “feels” different from the past others.
 
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NDAFArly

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Ky fans will be more than happy to chime in. The are experts at everything on this board, or so they think.

Did you know they have 8 National Championships in Basketball? They are looking to nab #9 this year because Cal has really got a great recruiting class coming in. This class just “feels” different from the past others.
Being from Indiana I’m well aware of UK basketball fans.
 

Steelers2012

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We MAY be a tad hesitant to engage in a discussion with any Indiana team. We had a pretty bad experience with Purdue football fans here when we went through our recent coaching search. :p There’s some sick puppies in that fan base. :oops:
 

NDAFArly

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We MAY be a tad hesitant to engage in a discussion with any Indiana team. We had a pretty bad experience with Purdue football fans here when we went through our recent coaching search. :p There’s some sick puppies in that fan base. :oops:
I’m surrounded by Purdue fans. When ND used to play Purdue every year I used to go to all the games in West Lafayette & get yelled at. Purdue fans HATE ND. I am actually teammates with a former NFL D-Lineman who was on the team with Brees that won the B1G & went to the Rose Bowl. He always tells me “ND sucks” every time I have a ND shirt on.
They are all over our board too. For some reason they think going 6-7 last year was a good thing?
 

Louis III

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To answer your question, we have a lot of unknowns. Did our team really quit, bad coaching, lack of talent, etc., etc. New coaching staff and scheme to go along with all of those questions. I, personally think we are a 4 win team this year and you will see a fast, but undersized in spots team that competes. Aside from that, I am hopeful that we are within 10 points with the ball heading into the 4th quarter to least have a chance.
 
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NDAFArly

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To answer your question, we have a lot of unknowns. Did our team really quit, bad coaching, lack of talent, etc., etc. New coaching staff and scheme to go along with all of those questions. I, personally think we are a 4 win team this year and you will see a fast, but undersized in spots team that competes. Aside from that, I am hopeful that we are within 10 points with the ball heading into the 4th quarter to least have a chance.
BVG is a horrible DC. That will help a lot.
Satterfield is a coach that was on a lot of ND’s insiders short list of HC’s to take over after Brian Kelly leaves, so he is well respected.
 

WildCard

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To answer your question, we have a lot of unknowns. Did our team really quit, bad coaching, lack of talent, etc., etc. New coaching staff and scheme to go along with all of those questions. I, personally think we are a 4 win team this year and you will see a fast, but undersized in spots team that competes. Aside from that, I am hopeful that we are within 10 points with the ball heading into the 4th quarter to least have a chance.
That sums 2019 up quite well..."a lot of unknowns". I expect the defense to be MUCH better but even that big of an improvement would (statistically) make them "average at best". Offense is probably "OK" except for the most important part of offense - the O-line. Not too much of a stretch to say performance overall basically depends on OL play.

I am hopeful of a 5 win season but other than Eastern and Western early don't ask me what are the other 3 wins. If you know him and can introduce us I would make a deal with the Devil for 6 wins and a minor bowl. :D

Peace

PS: Oops! I said nothing about ND. 20 point spread seems about right but it is the opener for both. Good teams are not always good in game #1, Realistically I would love to be within 10 going into the 4th especially if it was not due to a bunch of 1st game TOs by the Irish. In the big picture, love to see ND finally join ACC but very happy with these games in the future. Heck, may see ND more this way than if they were in the ACC Coastal.
 
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zipp

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I'm Catholic and my father was a big ND fan. I was actually admitted to attend school there, so I have no anti-ND bias as some fans do.

But I'd almost rather discuss ND's future as an independent in football. If Domers wanna comment, is that still what a majority of the fanbase wants? And are there terms under which ND would join a football conference, the ACC or another?

I would think financials and contracts could be worked out. That's just about flexibility and how you divide the pie. What about schedule? Could ND and its fans be happy with just four OOC games? What if you could basically pick your eight conference opponents?

Let's get this thing figured out if there's a way for the ACC to make it happen!
 
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If ND became the 15th football member, who would become the 16th? Would there be a need for a 16th? FSU and Miami would block any Directional Florida from joining I’m sure. UConn? West Virginia? Cincinnati? Memphis?
 

NDAFArly

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I'm Catholic and my father was a big ND fan. I was actually admitted to attend school there, so I have no anti-ND bias as some fans do.

But I'd almost rather discuss ND's future as an independent in football. If Domers wanna comment, is that still what a majority of the fanbase wants? And are there terms under which ND would join a football conference, the ACC or another?

I would think financials and contracts could be worked out. That's just about flexibility and how you divide the pie. What about schedule? Could ND and its fans be happy with just four OOC games? What if you could basically pick your eight conference opponents?

Let's get this thing figured out if there's a way for the ACC to make it happen!
Most ND fans want to stay independent. Many of them because they live so far away from ND & want to be able to see ND play games across the country.
For me, I just like the ability to play the schedule they do, while keeping the teams additional rivals. They will always play USC & Navy for historical reasons, so if they play 8-9 conference games that leaves them only 1-2 open dates. They also have never (and say they will never) played an FCS school, which makes them 1 of 2 no to do so. (Will be the only one after next year).

As for which conference they would join? They are contractually obligated to join the ACC in football if they join any conference before 2035.
 

NDAFArly

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That sums 2019 up quite well..."a lot of unknowns". I expect the defense to be MUCH better but even that big of an improvement would (statistically) make them "average at best". Offense is probably "OK" except for the most important part of offense - the O-line. Not too much of a stretch to say performance overall basically depends on OL play.

I am hopeful of a 5 win season but other than Eastern and Western early don't ask me what are the other 3 wins. If you know him and can introduce us I would make a deal with the Devil for 6 wins and a minor bowl. :D

Peace

PS: Oops! I said nothing about ND. 20 point spread seems about right but it is the opener for both. Good teams are not always good in game #1, Realistically I would love to be within 10 going into the 4th especially if it was not due to a bunch of 1st game TOs by the Irish. In the big picture, love to see ND finally join ACC but very happy with these games in the future. Heck, may see ND more this way than if they were in the ACC Coastal.
I look at games & final outcomes differently than a lot of ND fans.

Most want ND to be up 3-4 scores by half & backups in the entire 4th Q.

I think ND is more of a grind it out team with a top 10 OL & DL. I don’t need a quick blowout. If ND is up 10 at half, but in complete control, no TOs, smart play, etc..., then comes out & wears UL down the 3rd and extends to a 20-24 point lead, then finally wears them out early 4th & gets up 27-30, I will be very happy. Even if UL scores late & brings it back to 20-24 at the end.
I don’t ever need a huge halftime lead. The game is 60 minutes for a reason. ND needs to wear opponents down with their depth this year.
 

zipp

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Most ND fans want to stay independent. Many of them because they live so far away from ND & want to be able to see ND play games across the country.
For me, I just like the ability to play the schedule they do, while keeping the teams additional rivals. They will always play USC & Navy for historical reasons, so if they play 8-9 conference games that leaves them only 1-2 open dates...
I hear the argument. I just don't fully understand how that translates in practice. For example, if I look at this year's schedule and I put together a hypothetical schedule for you guys in the ACC, you tell me where the significant trade-offs are...


In this example, only the last six games are different. You trade Georgia Tech for Georgia which is a wash geographically. You lose a second game with a California team and two games against Virginia teams that you've played four times in history combined. In exchange, you gain both FSU and Miami which puts you in the state of Florida each year, and Pitt that you have a longstanding history playing (behind only USC, Navy, and Purdue). Finally, you swap Louisville and New Mexico for Carolina and the Cuse, which I can't believe the average ND fan would have a problem with.

So how is this schedule example that includes eight ACC games a problem for ND fans? Is it simply that you don't FEEL you have scheduling flexibility? And if the ACC works with ND along the lines of what I just described, what's that flexibility really worth? You really want to argue the merits of being able to schedule New Mexico and Bowling Green?
 
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NDAFArly

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I hear the argument. I just don't fully understand how that translates in practice. For example, if I look at this year's schedule and I put together a hypothetical schedule for you guys in the ACC, you tell me where the significant trade-offs are...


In this example, only the last six games are different. You trade Georgia Tech for Georgia which is a wash geographically. You lose a second game with a California team and two games against Virginia teams that you've played four times in history combined. In exchange, you gain both FSU and Miami which puts you in the state of Florida each year, and Pitt that you have a longstanding history playing (behind only USC, Navy, and Purdue). Finally, you swap Louisville and New Mexico for Carolina and the Cuse, which I can't believe the average ND fan would have a problem with.

So how is this schedule example that includes eight ACC games a problem for ND fans? Is it simply that you don't FEEL you have scheduling flexibility? And if the ACC works with ND along the lines of what I just described, what's that flexibility really worth? You really want to argue the merits of being able to schedule New Mexico and Bowling Green?
The thing with ND is they have home & homes all over the country. It just worked out this year that way. They have Ohio State, Alabama, Texas, Oklahoma, etc.. on future schedules.
They also play neutral site games & “home” games at opponents home states (like Syracuse at Yankee Stadium or BC at Fenway). They also play in pro venues (like playing Wisconsin at Lambaeu & Soldier Field in a few years). They even play in Ireland (again in two years).
ND’s schedule is nowhere near as straight forward as that diagram. It’s complicated every season. They have built in contracts when USC & Stanford will come to ND (never after mid-October because of weather) & ND always finishes the season in California (either USC or Stanford) for recruiting purposes since they don’t have a conference championship game they stay & recruit for two weeks on the west coast & Hawaii.
The ACC actually wanted six games from ND but ND literally had to make room for five.
ND had to cancel 100 year rivalries with Michigan State & Purdue to make room, & even make Michigan (their oldest rivalry) move to individual home & home series every decade.
And Bowling Green & New Mexico actually mark the first time ND had scheduled that way ever. They were forced to find G5 teams to fill holes because the ACC schedule gave ND very little flexibility. Also, since the ACC sets those five games, ND isn’t thrilled with the fact that all five ACC teams don’t play the week before ND....
And it’s not a FEEL, it’s just facts. There are literally hours & hours of podcasts where ND’s scheduling is discussed & all that goes into it.
 
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nccardfan

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Looking at their schedule I think I can sum it up succinctly. Who else plays 2 Big 10 teams, 2 PAC 12 teams, 1 SEC team plus 5 ACC teams. Win with that kind of schedule gets you more value or exposure than playing 3 non conference teams and the rest within your conference. Unless you’re in the SEC West, you may not know what kind of team you have.
 

NDAFArly

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Quick Note:
Brian Kelly Fall Camp Opening Presser today at noon (et).

If you wonder why that matters to UL?
It’s because this is the one he usually updates guys who might not be ready for fall camp, might not be available for the opener, injuries, academic casualties, etc...
 
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nccardfan

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Quick Note:
Brian Kelly Fall Camp Opening Presser today at noon (et).

If you wonder why that matters to UL?
It’s because this is the one he usually updates guys who might not be ready for fall camp, might not be available for the opener, injuries, academic casualties, etc...
I’m not a ND fan by any stretch but I never questioned the strength of their football schedule, whether they’re playing USC, Michigan St, Stanford, Navy, Pitt, etc.
 
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zipp

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I’m not a ND fan by any stretch but I never questioned the strength of their football schedule, whether they’re playing USC, Michigan St, Stanford, Navy, Pitt, etc.
Oh no, I'm not raising the schedule question for that reason. I'm simply trying to understand why things can't be worked out with the ACC to bring ND in as a football playing member. I understand that there will be compromises for everyone. But the ACC can and should make every effort possible to accommodate ND's scheduling wants and wishes. And they can make the financials a wash because of the new revenue that comes into the conference.

I simply think that the ACC hasn't moved far enough with its thinking and proposals. Nor is ND gonna get that kind of arrangement with any other conference it would consider joining, like the Big Ten or SEC...
 
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PHCARD

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I have to wonder if the controversy within the church the last decade has negatively effected ND & NBC ratings? What little reading I was willing to do, they claim Brian Kelly saved the day on ratings. :confused: But I would bet the house the real ratings are nothing compared to where they were. I want the ACC to put the pressure on them to join us entirely or move on. They could keep their Stanford, USC whoever in their OOC schedule.
 
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gocds

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I have to wonder if the controversy within the church the last decade has negatively effected ND & NBC ratings? What little reading I was willing to do, they claim Brian Kelly saved the day on ratings. :confused: But I would bet the house the real ratings are nothing compared to where they were. I want the ACC to put the pressure on them to join us entirely or move on. They could keep their Stanford, USC whoever in their OOC schedule.
PHCARD me thinks you are making sense with your comments. Yeah, I’d like them “in” with us also and the ACC could use another football power to even up the conference. If ND were to come in I could possibly see the conference doing away with the divisional setup as we have it now. Perhaps giving each school a couple of “rival” schools to play each year, i.e., FSU and Miami, UNC and NCState, etc. Or with five 3 school “rival” situations. That way there would be no need for a 16th member. With the advent of these “new fangled” things called computers I’m quite sure scheduling could be worked out for a period of 8 years or so to make things fair.

GO CARDS - BEAT EVERYBODY!!! God Bless America!!!
 

nccardfan

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I think part of the hesitation on ND’s part is that by being independent, they don’t tie themselves down to a conference’s bowl tie ins. if they have a winning record, which they usually do, they have more choices for which bowl (money) is best for them. I do see that window closing a bit though in the future.
 

zipp

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As long as ND can document the money they're receiving (and will receive) as an independent--which I'm sure they can do--they should receive at least that much after joining a conference. If any fallout connected with TV ratings and Catholicism has affected that calculation, it should be incorporated into the calculation.

And personally, I'd give ND free rein to cut its own side deal with bowl tie-ins, the same I'd do for Clemson or any other 800-lb gorilla. If they've earned that accommodation, they should get it.

This is not that different from UNEQUAL end-of-year distributions for conference members. Why should Clemson and Wake in the ACC or Bama and LPT in the SEC get the same football distributions? Or anywhere close to the same?...
 
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MadCard05

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Overall I expect Notre Dame to win the game, but I expect the Cards to look a lot better than people believe they'll be. I think they'll hang on for long enough to start some rumblings about if Notre Dame is really the team thought headed into the season.

Then Notre Dame will keep winning and Louisville will beat FSU and then that narrative will change a bit.
 
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KozmasAgain

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Notre Dame has the largest alumni network in the country, probably the world. I don’t think they are ever hurting for viewers whenever they are playing. I don’t see Notre Dame aligning themselves with any other conference. The ACC has everything they want especially the east coast ties.
The problem is as long as they stay independent all they have to do is have a great year and they are automatically in the playoffs. If they join the conference and lose in the ACC playoffs they are probably out of the playoffs.
 

PHCARD

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Well I'm not a fan of the bowls that are set-up with ACC/ND decision BS.
If the ACC would need to add another team, if the ND add ever works, I can see WV jumping at the chance to get back to the east coast. That WV B12 join has cost them 'eers millions the last several years in travel alone. TG, it wasn't us chosen!
 

NDAFArly

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I have to wonder if the controversy within the church the last decade has negatively effected ND & NBC ratings? What little reading I was willing to do, they claim Brian Kelly saved the day on ratings. :confused: But I would bet the house the real ratings are nothing compared to where they were. I want the ACC to put the pressure on them to join us entirely or move on. They could keep their Stanford, USC whoever in their OOC schedule.
The Catholic Church controversy really has nothing to do with ND. The majority of students at ND aren’t even Catholic. ND will always have ratings, what makes them explode is winning. That is why Brian Kelly helped the ratings, because after Holtz left in 1996, ND had three straight failures at coach & their worst stretch in 120 years. Then BK came in & led them to a BCS title game & the CFP. If ND keeps winning, the ratings will stay up.
 

PHCARD

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NDA, research says 80-85% of ND students are Catholic. I’d say the athletes are lower, but yeah ND is a Catholic thing. Unless that’s the message ND puts forward and false.
 
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NDAFArly

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NDA, research says 80-85% of ND students are Catholic. I’d say the athletes are lower, but yeah ND is a Catholic thing. Unless that’s the message ND puts forward and false.
I can PROMISE you that 80-85% of ND students aren’t catholic. Do people check “yes” on that box to help them get in? Yep.
ND the institution is 100% Catholic, but the Catholic Church controversy had nothing to do with ND. They were one of the first American Catholic institutions to speak up against the Church. I am very happy they did too. That sickens me.
 
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ND played Ball State last year or the year before. It wasn’t even on NBC, it was on NBC Sports Network.

They can tweak it anyway they want. Once they start getting left out of the Final 4 (SEC & Big 10+4 wont get left out again), they will have to join the ACC.
 

PHCARD

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I have no anti-ND bias. Hell I cheer for them and I like CBK. He was close to being shown the door. Then they got it going last year. I just want ND to join us in football or move on. Competition in a conference is a good thing.
I would like the ACC to be the big dog and knock the SEC down a notch.
 

gocds

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Hey NDAFArly, yes ND did, indeed respond early in the Catholic Church scandals. But each and every Catholic institution in the US, including Norte Dame, was, and is, damaged by the church scandals, if only by association. My daughters both attended Catholic university’s (UDayton) and that school also suffered/suffering from these seemingly undying scandals. Actually, religious based schools, i.e. Baylor, are all having serious situations because of scandals. ND is not untouched.

GO CARDS - BEAT EVERYBODY!!! God Bless America!!!
 

NDAFArly

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ND played Ball State last year or the year before. It wasn’t even on NBC, it was on NBC Sports Network.

They can tweak it anyway they want. Once they start getting left out of the Final 4 (SEC & Big 10+4 wont get left out again), they will have to join the ACC.
They didn’t play Ball State on the NBC Sports Network. They play one late season game a year on that network because it’s in the NBC contract.
They were a top 5 CFP team playing a rival in 2015 & played on the NBC Sports Network.
 
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They didn’t play Ball State on the NBC Sports Network. They play one late season game a year on that network because it’s in the NBC contract.
They were a top 5 CFP team playing a rival in 2015 & played on the NBC Sports Network.
Ball State is a rival? I’m not following you.

I was referring to your Bowling Green/New Mexico comment on how this is a first for ND in scheduling. They have scheduled MAC and Mountain West teams in the recent past. Miami-OH, Nevada, Rice, Western Michigan, etc
 
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zipp

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Whether or not ND students are predominantly Catholic, there's little question that's ND's identity. I have no idea, however, if highly publicized scandals have hurt their image. As long as TV networks want their games, you'd have to assume that those scandals haven't hurt.

The conference-or-not issue needs to keep being explored. The situation is fine in the short run, but long term it should be resolved with ND joining the ACC or another conference. The issue of ND being the only independent in the Power Five is IMO unsustainable. It's only working as well as it does now because ND is playing better football at the moment, and the ACC needs their involvement.

Too many people begrudge ND's special status as far as money, bowl games, and other considerations. When the balances I just mentioned tilt in the other direction again--and they will eventually--the relationship will get acrimonious and difficult to resolve well for all sides. I don't wanna see that happen...
 

BPGhost

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ND first hoodwinked the BE and now the ACC with the whiff of football membership as a way to place their other sports - which bring NOTHING to the table - in a conference. They have no intention of joining in football and anyone - or conference - that thinks they will is fooling themselves. If forced, they would almost certainly go b1g and not the ACC.

No ultimatums required - the ACC needs to give them the boot.
 
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NDAFArly

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ND first hoodwinked the BE and now the ACC with the whiff of football membership as a way to place their other sports - which bring NOTHING to the table - in a conference. They have no intention of joining in football and anyone - or conference - that thinks they will is fooling themselves. If forced, they would almost certainly go b1g and not the ACC.

No ultimatums required - the ACC needs to give them the boot.
You don’t think ND brings anything to the conference outside of football?
Seriously?
Their men’s & women’s sports teams have a lot of success in multiple sports.

And ND has ZERO interest in joining the B1G.
ND twice tried joining the B1G in the 20’s & 40’s.
ND almost had to close during the ‘40’s because of all the males going off to war. They tried joining the B1G & the conference voted no (many wanting to see ND close). That’s when the United States Naval Academy historically sent a few thousand males to attend ND, keeping the University open. That’s why ND has an “unofficial” lifetime contract with Navy. ND will never forget what Navy did for them & also what the B1G didn’t do. The B1G tried multiple times to get ND to join (after Penn State in the ‘90s & again after Nebraska a decade ago). ND isn’t interested at all. ND will join the ACC if they join a conference.
 
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