I'm rather happy with my team's performance in march. How about you ?
Listening to slapd!ck talk radio at the moment...
- Thread starter zipp
- Start date
I was thinking of this new "none and done" delima (if it becomes one). It puts schools in a similar position that they used to be in prior to the one and done era. If you remember, Rajon rondo was most likely coming to Louisville but pitino took a calculated risk and went all in on Sebastian telfair. Telfair ended up going pro and rondo had already went with UK. HD is a calculated risk for Cal in a similar manner. If he comes back, great. But if he doesn't then we've lost out on many a plan B on the recruiting trail. Funny how things shake out.
NBA all star teams? No, more like one year removed from playing high school ball. Where do you guys come up with this? None of these players are NBA all stars as college freshmen. They are college freshmen and if anything, it's much more difficult to win with freshmen, sure, they're more athletic, but the college game is full of veteran players with developers frames, these high school kids come in looking like bean poles, with the exception of Bam and Cousins.
No. My sense of self worth is not predicated on how many titles the team I root for has won.
4 of 5 were before I ever started following UK and the 5th was when they were on probation for recruiting violations. I loved the Runts, the Issel teams and that group from the Superkittens through 1979 as much as anyone but at some point you have to ask yourself, "Is everything above board?" Much as I am doing now with our program. The whole KP thing and CRP's indiscretions do not set well with me.
If it's not U of L vs LPT, why are 99% of your zillion posts about the kitties on a Cardinals message board????
Rondo hated UL because Rick recruited and prioritized Telfair over him. Rondo wanted to play for Louisville and wanted to play for Pitino but it hurt him that Rick placed him on the backburner and made him "plan B" if Telfair went pro. I don't really blame Rick, because Telfair was the "it" kid of that class but it might be the biggest recruiting mistake of Rick's tenure at Louisville. Even though I really don't like Rondo and think he's a complete punk.
No more happy than I should be w/o a championship. But I usually leave my goalposts at the goal line.
"Elite program," my a$$...
LMFAO @ the UK fan trying to police the UK hater on the UofL board.
Can't make this stuff up!
Nice try - you didn't mind going off topic referencing the history of UK basketball in a thread about a potential none and done player.
I think the relationship between people like you and Zipp is good entertainment man. He is an amazing puppeteer.
It should be easier to figure out. I cringe every time I see a UK fan start going down that path to nowhere and picture zipp cackling in the background.
This this is where you're wrong......Zipp doesn't smileIt should be easier to figure out. I cringe every time I see a UK fan start going down that path to nowhere and picture zipp cackling in the background.
I'm kinda curious and I'm not trying to start a fight, but isn't UofL a player's first program as any university should be? Isn't the best interests of a player what is most important or do you think that the university comes first?
I can say that there are many Kentucky fans that do get tired of the player turnover, but they realize it's an end to a means. If Cal doesn't get players to the NBA then the 5 star players won't keep coming. I think this year is really different with Briscoe, Humphries and possibly Diallo going. Kentucky fans are used to the superstars leaving for the draft, but not the lower level players. Some are them are really losing their mind over Diallo, but it doesn't really matter to me if he goes pro. Would love to have him next year, but it's more like a recruit that backed out of a commitment since he never played a game.
Lol
I think the college game has now become so much about making money that I'm not even sure why some of the kids don't just go overseas right out of high school. I mean kids like Briscoe, Humphries, and Jaylen Johnson have literally close to 0% chance of playing in the NBA yet they left anyway. I don't know what the final count is right now but there's an alarming number of players trying to leave college that have absolutely no business leaving college unless they're only goal is to travel around foreign countries to play ball. But this mentality has now sort of taken over the college game that its so much of a "me first" culture that nobody gives a crap about their school or getting their degree or winning a title.
Also, you should care if Diallo comes back or not, without him that guard lineup will be rough. But Diallo has a decision to make...he'll almost certainly get a 1st round guarantee after the combine but it will be up to him to decide if he wants to bet on himself and get on staying healthy and try to be a lottery pick or take the money now and be like the 23rd pick.
I for one absolutely care if he comes back. He makes all the difference next year. We always get stud freshmen but never have we had one that got such a head start at college life and the program. I will be very disappointed if he stays in the draft. This is always a tense time of year for uk fans. A couple kids here and there will make the difference between another run at a title and a bubble year. Luckily it's largely been the former. I'd like that trend to continue. HD is a huge need for next year
LPT is only as successful as it is with the one and done because of the weak play in the SEC. With the influx of good coaches, Squid won't be able to maintain the winning percentage he's enjoyed playing second rate competition.
Usually it's ROTFLMAO... The only guys who frustrate me are guys like John.It should be easier to figure out. I cringe every time I see a UK fan start going down that path to nowhere and picture zipp cackling in the background.
It may sound a little insensitive--surprised?--but I don't really care what these guys do after they leave U of L. That's former athletes in any sport. I want them to be successful and make a lotta money, but that's not the priority while they're in college. They may not appreciate it, but a full ride scholarship alone is something most 18-year olds would kill for.
I'm 99% team first. Fine to play a kid a few extra minutes in a game to set a school record, but that's about it.
As 'tino implies, the days of OAD kids maybe numbered anyway. When players like Diallo decide they'd rather not play and first round NFL draft picks start skipping their final bowl games, you know you're aiming at a moving target. By the time Lite gets a commitment from the next Anthony Davis, the kid may do a right-turn, play it safe, and never log a minute of college basketball.
"Elite program," my a$$...
What you're saying makes great sense from the fans' perspective. But the NCAA is really a pro sports league that generates billions of dollars on talent that it pays well below market value.
And that's the real reason players are starting to leave earlier. Why play for free when you can make 6-figures playing elsewhere?
I think you'll see more of this and I don't blame the players a bit. If the NCAA wants to put a stop to this they can start paying a fair wage for services rendered. Otherwise they deserve to lose all their talent to leagues in Europe and Asia that are willing to pay these players what they're worth.
I agree. I mean I can't blame a kid for wanting to make money. However, I think this new mentality really has a negative impact on Louisville and other schools that recruit like Louisville more so than schools like UK, Arizona and Duke. Regardless if a few of the elite kids decide to go overseas the best kids that actually come to college are going to still commit to those specific elite programs. Louisville's system is one based more on perfect timing in my opinion. UL needs their best kids to stay long enough to be "elite" level college players, the Dieng's, Russ, Peyton, etc. Instead they're staying long enough to get on the radar and then leaving, sort of 60% through their development. Like Onuaku, Mitchell, Trezl, Rozier or kids that who just left with no real plan of making the NBA Terrence Jennings, Samuels, Jaylen Johnson and these kids aren't leaving because they're lottery picks or top 20 picks, they're leaving to go be in the DLeague.
So UL isn't getting the full benefit of the fully developed college player that they need to be a true elite, national title threat. How much better would last years team be had Onuaku came back like everyone assumed? How much better will this years team be with Mitchell? Kids are simply looking to get to the league as quick as possible and whereas UL recruits and develops teams this is negatively impacting ULs ability to build that elite National Title contending team and instead they keep building teams that are on the verge of being elite and then they lose the key cogs and its back to the drawing board.
The most inaccurate post ever to be made on any message board. Ever. Graduated college with Rondo's aunt. Whole family is full of UofL fans. Still is. None of them like UK. When UL/UK played in NOLA in the Final Four, the whole Rondo family was in red. She always talked about how crushed he was when CRP recruited Telfair over him.
Now THAT I don't agree with or can't figure out how you would know... The lure of pro bowl and lottery ticket money pressures all athletes in certain sports. It means all of them err to the side of leaving even earlier than they have been doing.
Who that has a greater effect on--a OAD factory or a more traditional program--is anyone's guess. The OAD kid may not even be a "one" anymore. A kid like Jaylen Johnson leaves early with no good shot at an NBA roster simply because he thinks he's as marketable as he will be next year at this time. Either situation affects those programs similarly.
I could argue the OAD school will have to change its recruiting philosophy more than the traditional school that may change little. What the kids do once they get to school becomes the wildcard...
The reason I say it hits schools like Louisville harder than UK is because....well, let me give you an example.
Lets say 10 of the top 25 players in this class decide they want to play in Europe. Fine....they're irrelevant to the college game. But there are still going to be 15 elite players in that class that come to college and they're still going to go to Duke, UK and Arizona. Thats a given. Whereas those kids that went to Europe have no impact on Louisville because Louisville was never going to get them and the 15 players left are still not going to come to Louisville. So the UKs, Dukes and Arizona's are still getting the best players available...they may be the best available of a watered down crop, but UK will still have more "talent" than just about every team in the country.
Now because of the rise of the "me first" mentality Louisville has to deal with kids that they wouldn't normally lose and the team that Pitino was trying to build toward, never gets built. What would have happened if Gorgui or Russ or Peyton decided to go pro/Europe after their Sophomore or Junior years? UL doesn't win a title. That's whats happening to Louisville and why its impacting Louisville more harshly. Last years team could have been ELITE had Nanu stayed...but he made a dumb move and went pro too early. This years team could be elite with Donovan..but in all likelihood he's gone, robbing UL of a shot at being a truly elite team next year. UL is developing these kids just enough to get them decent but never reaping the rewards of getting them when they're at their best and because of that UL is having to play kids before their ready or forced to play subpar talent more minutes than they should at a school like Louisville.
The reason why it affects U of L more is that it took 3 years of development and a scholarship in CRPs system that can't easily be replaced. However with the OAD you are constantly hitting the start over button.
To my knowledge.,
1. Coach Pitino was told twice, face to face, that Telfair was going to the NBA.
2. Coach Pitino wanted to get recruiting over with, and Telfair was the last one.
3. Rondo verballed to scrubby smith in December. He could have waited till April
or signed anyways and competed
4. Also, as a junior, Chris Lofton was offered a scholarship as a junior only to
have it rescinded and offered a preferred walkon.
Add Rondo and Lofton, Cards win it all in 2008.
5. Also misses in that class were two who couldnt qualify. 6'9 Amir Johnson who starts for the celtics. 6'6 Oldham county player Donta Smith.
What has plagued Louisville is an inability to make free throws, layups and close shots.
And obsession with strictly "team oriented" basketball. You need at least one guy who can get to the rim and make shots on anyone...not just a team full of guys that need an entire play ran for them to get open to get their shot. Its no coincidence that UL won its only title under Rick as a direct result of having Russ Smith fall into our lap.
Well while this is true about Russ Smith it's also true we won a 3rd title because Rick Pitino was on our bench.
GO CARDS - BEAT EVERYBODY!!! God Bless America!!!
Not true. It wasn't the Russ Smith that went 1 on 5 that got us a championship. It was the Russ Smith that finally bought into CRPs system.
I'm not sure about that. UL simply needed Gorgui, Chane, Luke, Peyton and Russ to develop and once they did they were nearly unbeatable because Russ was Russ. Russ was the same type of player his Freshman year as he was his Senior year. NOW....OBVIOUSLY he got immensely better and developed over those 4 years but his "style" didn't change...he didn't "buy into" the CRP system or alter his game that much. Russ Smith was a heady, score first SG that defenders couldn't stay in front of and he was an absolute lock down defender on the perimeter. I like to think the 25 ppg he put up before that title game had a lot to do with UL winning that title. Who was the last player UL had under Pitino that put up scoring numbers even close to that? Rozier was the closest we had to a Russ Smith type and he just wasn't on a strong enough team.
UL won a title because defenses had to worry about Peyton getting to the rim, Russ getting to the rim or shooting a jumper or 3 in their eye, Luke nailing a 3, boxing out Chane on the offensive glass and trying to deny Gorgui the ball. When you have a go-to scorer like a Russ Smith it changes your entire dynamic on offense. Defenses can design sets to stop or alter your offense, but its hard to stop a Russ Smith type guy when he's determined to score. Its no coincidence that the best team Rick ever had at UL had an unstoppable scoring machine like Russ, having that makes everything else easier.
Well at least you're honest, I don't know if this is the sentiments of most UofL fans or not, but who knows.
I'm not 100% convinced U of L should be recruiting anywhere near the Top 25 players. Talent is important to all programs, but Pitino is a little different. Absent the caveman mentality, Pitino's evolved into a modern-day Bobby Knight. And Knight didn't need or couldn't coach that level of talent, certainly not in the last half of his career.
IMO players like VJ King and Malik Williams are risks for Pitino, and it's TBD how much benefit five-star kids will be for U of L while Pitino finishes his career here. He needs tough, hard-nosed kids who completely submit to his coaching methods. That's not characteristic of Top 25 recruits nowadays...
Rick's not getting the top 25 kids anyway. I honestly don't know why he wastes the resources on the elite of the elite kids. The top 15-20 kids. He occasionally gets the VJ Kings, the Malik Williams the fringe 5 star kids that aren't projected to be one and done level talent but for the most part his bread and butter are the high 4 star kids that need 2-4 years of coaching. The problem is that the kids like that (Nanu and Donovan) are coming here and getting developed in 2 years just enough to catch the eye of the NBA and they're gone and Rick's rebuilding again without ever really getting to see his developed product on the court.
You can win with hard nosed, well developed teams...Nova did it, UL did it....but its certainly a lot easier if you just recruit better players and accommodate your style to match their skillset. Nova did it because they had an amazing single player in Hart...UL did it because of Russ. UL will not win a title without an elite level college player. You're not winning a title playing hard-nose, team basketball. Your team needs talent and it needs a leader and Rick tries to develop those leaders instead of recruiting them and they're leaving before they get fully developed.
