Lamar passing

[JWtruthsquad]

To be fair, Lamar is 1-3 against FBS opponents where he has taken the majority of snaps. I don't dislike Jackson in fact I think he could be an all time great at UofL. But right now I think Bolin affords the best option to run the traditional Petrino style offense that creates matchup problems for the defense, is not turnover prone and can control the clock since apparently our defense isn't well conditioned.

the question is does whoever he picks to play qb have the supporting cast to run his traditional offense. maybe their thought is to go with the more mobile qb with questionable line play. between your line play and lack of an explosive back, or at least I didn't see one (maybe due to line play), I would go with the more mobile guy if you don't have the supporting cast to run patrino's traditional offense.

we are in the same boat, really. we have a very shakey line but we can make up for it with a mobile, experienced qb, even though he is new to us, and incredible skill all around him. but we aren't running near the offense we ran with winston because it is very complex and he doesn't know it. I think jimbo went with golson because of his mobility behind our line and suspect Patrino did the same. one thing I would bet old lefty on is they are both playing who they believe gives them the best chance to win.

 

[BPGhost]

Is LJ the best QB to run the read option? No question about it.

My question is why has BP decided to abandon the pro-style (with some spread / west coast aspects) offense that he's run for the last 20 years? Is LJ the best QB to run that offense? No, he is not. Bolin (or Gardner if he's healthy) are certainly capable of running that offense if the play calling is geared towards their strengths and, away from our weaknesses - specifically our inexperienced O-Line. That means 3 step drops, quick slants, bubble screens, etc. Essentially the playbook that he used with LeFlors. Petrino's genius always was that the great majority of the time, his play calls would have someone WIDE open - the QB just had to know where to look. Bolin definitely goes thru his progressions significantly better than Jackson - at least three times the camera caught Petrino telling Jackson that he missed the wide open receiver on important downs.

It's a small point I guess because it's next year but, I'm not worried about losing Pass to another program - I'm worried that they'll lose him because they're running the read option. He specifically said that he was coming to Louisville because "Petrino could get him to the next level".

How many read option offenses are in the NFL?

 

[zipp]

...My question is why has BP decided to abandon the pro-style (with some spread / west coast aspects) offense that he's run for the last 20 years?

...It's a small point I guess because it's next year but, I'm not worried about losing Pass to another program - I'm worried that they'll lose him because they're running the read option. He specifically said that he was coming to Louisville because "Petrino could get him to the next level".

How many read option offenses are in the NFL?

Then why do any college programs run the read-option? And why do any QBs play in them?

Petrino would not define his system as "read-option". He calls it "multiple" when he calls it anything. Sure there are those sets and plays.

It doesn't matter why Petrino has evolved his system, and an explanation from him isn't required. I'm 100% convinced he thinks what he's evolving to offensively will win more games, and I'm just as convinced none of us know otherwise.

And for knuckles, the biggest reason Lamar is 2-3 in games he's played significant minutes is that he's a true freshman playing the #2 schedule in the country. Not because he's the wrong QB to use with the guys playing around him...

 

[Wordless65]

20-35-3-1 with a qbr of 153. he did this against a very good defense, on the road in a very hostile environment, with a shakey o line and virtually no running game as a true freshman who didn't get to enroll early. keep in mind from the stands it looked to me that your wr had our db beat but he fell down on the int. that was a long completion at best and an incomplete pass at worst had he not fallen down. you guys are a rough crowd with maybe unrealistic expectations for such a young player/team. I thought he played a fantastic game and I'm not looking forward to seeing him again, especially after he "grows up".

You have to consider we DO live in Kentucky.

 

[BPGhost]

Then why do any college programs run the read-option? And why do any QBs play in them?

Petrino would not define his system as "read-option". He calls it "multiple" when he calls it anything. Sure there are those sets and plays.

It doesn't matter why Petrino has evolved his system, and an explanation from him isn't required. I'm 100% convinced he thinks what he's evolving to offensively will win more games, and I'm just as convinced none of us know otherwise.

And for knuckles, the biggest reason Lamar is 2-3 in games he's played significant minutes is that he's a true freshman playing the #2 schedule in the country. Not because he's the wrong QB to use with the guys playing around him...

Really? I guess the easy answer is that some programs run read option (it doesn't matter what BP calls it) because that's their HC's philosophy and they have been successful running it. Same reason for quarterbacks - it's an easier system to implement at the HS level where HS QBs are usually better runners / athletes than they are passers.

The fact that you say it doesn't matter to you why he's changed and that an explanation isn't necessary, either suggests a lack of intellectual curiosity on your part or, the interest in simply being argumentative. Why is that question off limits? Coaches talk all the time about their philosophy - I think it's a valid question to ask (if only on a message board) why someone who has been successful running one type of offense suddenly and seemingly abandons it.

I think Petrino is a great HC but, I'm 100% convinced that his indecision with what offense to run and, what QB to play, has had a detrimental effect on the team.

 

[Knucklehank1]

"And for knuckles, the biggest reason Lamar is 2-3 in games he's played significant minutes is that he's a true freshman playing the #2 schedule in the country. Not because he's the wrong QB to use with the guys playing around him..."

Bolin has faced an equally difficult schedule.

BPGhost - great questions. I'm curious as well as to why Petrino has left his past modus operandi.

 

[zipp]

What offense did we run when Lefors was QB? That was Petrino's first two years, and Lefors started over Brian Brohm, a pure dropback passing QB.

Lefors allegedly had a weak arm. Yet Petrino called Lefors execution of his offense "magical".

So what is Petrino's offensive philosophy? I could just as easily argue that he changed it to accommodate Brohm in 2005.

Again, some of you see what you want to see...

 

[65bird]

Then why do any college programs run the read-option? And why do any QBs play in them?

Petrino would not define his system as "read-option". He calls it "multiple" when he calls it anything. Sure there are those sets and plays.

It doesn't matter why Petrino has evolved his system, and an explanation from him isn't required. I'm 100% convinced he thinks what he's evolving to offensively will win more games, and I'm just as convinced none of us know otherwise.

And for knuckles, the biggest reason Lamar is 2-3 in games he's played significant minutes is that he's a true freshman playing the #2 schedule in the country. Not because he's the wrong QB to use with the guys playing around him...

 

[Rollem Cards]

Obviously I have time to kill in the mornings

I'm done with this thread (I think) after this. We don't know what's up. All we can do is support the team, and wait for the seeds to grow. I've been thinking that CBP is planting a different crop today rather than what made him a "genius".

But (theres that word again) as far as CBP changing his philosophy here's a few numbers to ponder as far as CBPs offenses.

1998: Redman- 40 rushing atts: -33 yds Pass Efficiency 151 Comp% 65

2002 Auburn U and Jason Campbell
72 Rush 206 yds (2.8 YPC) Pass Eff 149 Comp% 63

LeFors:
2003 71 Rushing Atts 405 yds (5.7 YPC), Pass Efficiency 145.56 Comp% 61
2004 71 Rush Atts 333 yds (4.7 YPC), Pass Efficiency 181.74 Comp% 74

Per Wikipedia:
Under Petrino's tutelage, quarterback Ryan Mallett broke numerous school passing records in 2010 as well. In 2011, the reins were handed to Tyler Wilson after Mallett went to the NFL. Wilson picked up where Mallett left off, and Arkansas spent more than half the season ranked in the top ten.

Ryan Mallet:
2009 58 rushing atts -58 yds
2010 44 " " -74 yds
Tyler Wilson:
2011 60 " " -3 yds
2012 41 " " 7 yds

So, having looked at the numbers Zipp , I can say that he may have not changed philosophy.

The Arky years are the question mark. He stayed with the drop back for 4 years when he could have gotten a "duel" threat in that four years, stuck him in there ahead of Wilson, and experimented away. But he didn't, and we'll never know why.

So, he has been successful both ways. When CBP has had a QB with running ability, he's used them, and for the most part, used them well. Even though most of LeFors, and Campbells runs were scrambles, they keep the D's honest.

And as PUM has said, it appears that when LJ becomes a QB vs a runner, we will be virtually unstoppable. Good things are coming on offense.

Until then I guess we just bitch

 

[Knucklehank1]

What offense did we run when Lefors was QB? That was Petrino's first two years, and Lefors started over Brian Brohm, a pure dropback passing QB.

Lefors allegedly had a weak arm. Yet Petrino called Lefors execution of his offense "magical".

So what is Petrino's offensive philosophy? I could just as easily argue that he changed it to accommodate Brohm in 2005.

Again, some of you see what you want to see...

Zipp - with LeFors he ran the power spread. LeFors was quite possibly the most perfect QB to run the power spread because of his accurate passing, great decision making and ability to run the ball, especially on playaction bootlegs. One of the reasons Petrino left for the Falcons is that he thought Mike Vick could be an all-timer running that offense. Why can't Lamar Jackson run that offense? My guess is that being a freshman, it is too much offense to digest. In its place, they have installed the read option because any athletic high school QB can pick up the read option. But that still begs the question: Why not allow Jackson time to learn the offense that made Petrino a coaching genius? I see no reason why Jackson wouldn't be able to be a power spread great just like LeFors and just as Petrino envisioned Vick would be. They could incorporate parts of the zone read (such as the pistol run by Colin Kapernick in SF, which is why Klenakis was brought in - he was o-line architect at Nevada when Kapernick was there running the pistol) while largely maintaining the principles of the power spread.

 

[cardstud1]

Jackson is one of the best offensive players on this team. Even if Bolin was starting every game, I highly doubt that would ever be said about him.

And before anyone says "fine, play Jackson somewhere else", remember... Petrino's motto is "feed the studs". That means all of the best guys on the field at the same time. That keeps Bolin off the field, unfortunately, and either Bonnafon or Jackson at QB. And I trust no one wants to still argue Reggie's merits at QB?...

Zipp, gotta see eyes thru a frustrated bunch of fans. Of course Lamar is our qb. now and later as well! We just gotta get'r done period! And Coach will get'r straightened out! Fans need to realize Cards are 1 and have years into the ACC and we have all this youth! Only thing about CCS is he and Watson knew they were leaving and didn't continue to recruit for the Offense throwing Bobby behind in talent in O-Line and qb. experience...none nada!

 

[cardstud1]

He is a True Freshman and didn't get to campus until June-(So no Spring Practice)...yes it is nuts that "some want him benched"

I'm with you on this totally Public Enemy! All this youth and playing FSU, Clemson, and Auburn.....! We fans need to get on board, encourage our players, button up our chin-straps and get to work!!

 

[cardstud1]

Fact of the matter is this....Petrino recruited Jackson...he didn't recruit Bolin and is it any debate which QB has the higher ceiling...it is Jackson and really it is not even close.

Plus, you can see the growth in LJ...This loss was not on him...at this point would much rather sit some guys on defense and play the younger players like Dee Smith, Jaire Alexander and Drew Bailey.

Time to rally up the home-boys and wagons, time to tightened up those chin-straps, and start encouraging our team or get off the train! ! and 1/2 years in to the ACC playing the likes of FSU, Clemson, Auburn, NC State, BC, "Cuse etc!

 

[cardstud1]

To be fair, Lamar is 1-3 against FBS opponents where he has taken the majority of snaps. I don't dislike Jackson in fact I think he could be an all time great at UofL. But right now I think Bolin affords the best option to run the traditional Petrino style offense that creates matchup problems for the defense, is not turnover prone and can control the clock since apparently our defense isn't well conditioned.

And what happens when they adjust to Bolin....go back to the beginning? We are cutting our teeth with what we have with teams like FSU, Clemson, Auburn, NC State, 'Cuse, BC with youth....very youthful. What makes you think Bolin would be any better with all this youth we have.... and it is going to take time and CBP will get it done! Remember CBP at Arkansas with a 1st year record of 5-7 and not much better the next year either!

 

[cardstud1]

Zipp - with LeFors he ran the power spread. LeFors was quite possibly the most perfect QB to run the power spread because of his accurate passing, great decision making and ability to run the ball, especially on playaction bootlegs. One of the reasons Petrino left for the Falcons is that he thought Mike Vick could be an all-timer running that offense. Why can't Lamar Jackson run that offense? My guess is that being a freshman, it is too much offense to digest. In its place, they have installed the read option because any athletic high school QB can pick up the read option. But that still begs the question: Why not allow Jackson time to learn the offense that made Petrino a coaching genius? I see no reason why Jackson wouldn't be able to be a power spread great just like LeFors and just as Petrino envisioned Vick would be. They could incorporate parts of the zone read (such as the pistol run by Colin Kapernick in SF, which is why Klenakis was brought in - he was o-line architect at Nevada when Kapernick was there running the pistol) while largely maintaining the principles of the power spread.

AND, playing in CUSA! We had time then, but playing teams like Tulane, Tulsa, Mempis, UAB, Houston, USF, UCF, SMU, Temple, Army, UC, UTEP RICE, FAU, FIU!...need I go further?

 

[tkdcoach]

Lamar finished 20-35 for 307 yards with 3 TDs and 1 INT. His QB rating was a ridiculous 153.4.

Probably our best performer of the day on either side of the ball.

This. Not to mention some drops and the bizarre tendency of Quick to fall down for no apparent reason. I think our offense is getting better with Jackson and will continue to do so.

 

[beantowncard]

Well good. I think Bolin gives us the best chance to win because he opens up more of the Petrino playbook.

Just what, exactly, is thePetrino playbook these days?

 

[Knucklehank1]

Just what, exactly, is thePetrino playbook these days?

That's the same question I've been pondering

 

[Caveman]

This. Not to mention some drops and the bizarre tendency of Quick to fall down for no apparent reason. I think our offense is getting better with Jackson and will continue to do so.

Not to mention some unbelievably inaccurate throws that were nowhere near the receiver. The positive was they were so bad that not even the defense could catch them, thankfully. Sometimes it's amazing to me that it's the same person throwing the ball. Some passes are great, others leave you wondering WTF?

I get that he's young. But why is this program in a position that a true freshman is starting at QB? This isn't basketball, where guys can come in and make a huge impact. The older guys in football are typically bigger, stronger, faster and understand the plays much, much better. Brohm is a great example. He sat behind Lefors and was allowed to learn, despite being much, much more highly rated. Jackson's been dropped in the fire, then pulled out, then put back in. Meanwhile, we seem to not be hearing any type of explanation from the coaching staff. This seems like the most tight lipped staff we've ever had here. (My perspective.)

I'm tired of hearing people talk about next year or how he's going to be great in a year or two. We aren't UK.

 

[nccardfan]

When you sign someone with the obvious talent level of a Lamar Jackson you are almost obligated to play them because like in basketball these guys want to play immediately. We are not OSU, Alabama, LSU or Even FSU who had a top notch transfer waiting in the wings after their stud left. Had not Jackson earned significant playing time, chances are he could go to a dozen other places and step right in. I will say again that it wasn't good to have five QBs all vying for playing time as some of those snaps took away from the development of a experienced starter.

 

[CardFan1130]

Not to mention some unbelievably inaccurate throws that were nowhere near the receiver. The positive was they were so bad that not even the defense could catch them, thankfully. Sometimes it's amazing to me that it's the same person throwing the ball. Some passes are great, others leave you wondering WTF?

I get that he's young. But why is this program in a position that a true freshman is starting at QB? This isn't basketball, where guys can come in and make a huge impact. The older guys in football are typically bigger, stronger, faster and understand the plays much, much better. Brohm is a great example. He sat behind Lefors and was allowed to learn, despite being much, much more highly rated. Jackson's been dropped in the fire, then pulled out, then put back in. Meanwhile, we seem to not be hearing any type of explanation from the coaching staff. This seems like the most tight lipped staff we've ever had here. (My perspective.)

I'm tired of hearing people talk about next year or how he's going to be great in a year or two. We aren't UK.

Stop it! You're making too much sense! ((Boy we're gonna be something to see when Lamar is a sr in 3 years!!!!)

 

[Louisvillian]

Lamar Jackson's 4th start as a Freshman-
At #11 Florida St 20-35 for 307 TDs 3 TDs 1 INT QB rating 153.4

Teddy Bridgewater's 4th start as a Freshman- vs unranked Rutgers at PJCS 10-18 for 122 TDs 1TD 1 INT QB rating 40.7

As if anyone should need a reminder of how good this kid is going to be. Did I mention that Lamar has almost 500 yards rushing in 5 games?

 

[WKCard]

BOOM!!!! (We won't win if we can't tackle) All else is irrelevant. Is it on Grantham or BP?

 

[WKCard]

BOOM!!!! (We won't win if we can't tackle) All else is irrelevant. Is it on Grantham or BP?

 

[Champ_24]

Receivers dropped 6 balls. I think them being in Tally had much to do with it. Wait til you see Lamar in year 2. I think he can surpass Teddy. I know that blasphemous right?? Whatever look at his numbers against fsu, I doubt Watson (Clemson) or Harris (Florida) will do better

 

[BPGhost]

When you sign someone with the obvious talent level of a Lamar Jackson you are almost obligated to play them because like in basketball these guys want to play immediately. We are not OSU, Alabama, LSU or Even FSU who had a top notch transfer waiting in the wings after their stud left. Had not Jackson earned significant playing time, chances are he could go to a dozen other places and step right in. I will say again that it wasn't good to have five QBs all vying for playing time as some of those snaps took away from the development of a experienced starter.

So - based on that type of thinking - what's the plan for next year when Jawon Pass comes in? He's rated higher by everyone than Jackson. I guess it's time for Lamar to pick up a clipboard?

 

[earsky]

And as PUM has said, it appears that when LJ becomes a QB vs a runner, we will be virtually unstoppable. Good things are coming on offense.

It's this part that is bothering me,not the passing(which seems to be coming along).The decisions in the read look a bit selfish to me,or maybe LJ has been handed something he's not quite ready for there.At any rate,it appears the coach has decided on where he's going.I don't expect Bolin to be here next season.

 

[nccardfan]

Yeah Ghost,

Look up JT Barrett at The OSU.

 

[BPGhost]

Yeah Ghost,

Look up JT Barrett at The OSU.

So you're saying at some point next year Jackson is going to get hurt and Pass will then take over? Wow, that's pretty specific - lol.

 

[zipp]

Lamar Jackson's 4th start as a Freshman-
At #11 Florida St 20-35 for 307 TDs 3 TDs 1 INT QB rating 153.4

Teddy Bridgewater's 4th start as a Freshman- vs unranked Rutgers at PJCS 10-18 for 122 TDs 1TD 1 INT QB rating 40.7

As if anyone should need a reminder of how good this kid is going to be. Did I mention that Lamar has almost 500 yards rushing in 5 games?

Man, you missed the memo... We can't wait for Jackson to develop into Bridgewater in three years. He has to play like Teddy TODAY. That's all we're askin'...

 

[Louisvillian]

Man, you missed the memo... We can't wait for Jackson to develop into Bridgewater in three years. He has to play like Teddy TODAY. That's all we're askin'...

Zipp, that's what I also gather from a large group of our fans.

Sure seems like we get spoiled (and that's cool) and have selective memory.

I think a big factor in that type of mindset is that we got behind Teddy a lot quicker because of not only how smooth he was but also because he was succeeding Will Stein, Justin Burke and Adam Froman. He had all the time he needed.

Not so much cushion for the guys that get to follow Teddy no matter how young and green they are.

IMO we are really lucky to have Lamar and a bunch of great team guys behind him including Kyle, Reggie and Will.

 

[ajgcardman]

He IS the best offensive player. But something ain't right. He CAN NOT operate under center.

Maybe it's a chemistry thing. Or respect maybe? Our fans are at each others throats over it.

You haven't seen it, but when this Bolin kid comes in, it's like the WHOLE friggin team ups their game. Suddenly people are open. The line blocks better. RB's start getting 4, 5, 10 yds a carry.

But Jackson is "better". He's just not getting "it" out of the team.

So is "better", better? CBP thinks so. Probably will be next year or the next.

Wrong & inaccurate.

We've scored points on 25% of our possessions this year with Kyle Bolin at QB. That's 24 points in 16 possessions or 1.5 points per possession. With Lamar Jackson at QB, we have scored 21 times on 48 possessions (43%), precisely 2.6 points per possession.

A sector of our fanbase didn't want him starting early on because he ran it too much, did too much all himself, and didn't pass it downfield like Kyle would. Forget the fact that he ran for over 100 yards 3 times, and 5TDs, with very limited blocking. Not good enough. They wanted him to pass it.

So, on Saturday, against a top-10 team on the road, he threw for 300+ yards, 3 TDs, had a QPR of over 150, and led his team to 21 points on 10 possessions (2.1 points per possession). Pretty damn awesome for an 18-yr old true freshman. But some still don't like him. I just don't get it.

We have an absolute stud freshman recruit come to Louisville, who is remarkably productive right out of the gate, despite an atrocious oline and several true freshmen running routes for him, and he scares the hell out of DCs with his explosive abilities, and we still want to whine and bitch and wonder why Petrino is running read option plays. Yep, I really don't get it.

 

[Louisvillian]

Wrong & inaccurate.

We've scored points on 25% of our possessions this year with Kyle Bolin at QB. That's 24 points in 16 possessions or 1.5 points per possession. With Lamar Jackson at QB, we have scored 21 times on 48 possessions (43%), precisely 2.6 points per possession.

A sector of our fanbase didn't want him starting early on because he ran it too much, did too much all himself, and didn't pass it downfield like Kyle would. Forget the fact that he ran for over 100 yards 3 times, and 5TDs, with very limited blocking. Not good enough. They wanted him to pass it.

So, on Saturday, against a top-10 team on the road, he threw for 300+ yards, 3 TDs, had a QPR of over 150, and led his team to 21 points on 10 possessions (2.1 points per possession). Pretty damn awesome for an 18-yr old true freshman. But some still don't like him. I just don't get it.

We have an absolute stud freshman recruit come to Louisville, who is remarkably productive right out of the gate, despite an atrocious oline and several true freshmen running routes for him, and he scares the hell out of DCs with his explosive abilities, and we still want to whine and bitch and wonder why Petrino is running read option plays. Yep, I really don't get it.

Pretty much sums up what I think.

 

[zipp]

...Pretty damn awesome for an 18-yr old true freshman. But some still don't like him. I just don't get it...

Maybe it has little to do with Jackson. Some of it may simply be confirmation bias. People who had issues with Petrino coming in are looking for an opportunity to fall outta the canoe. Doesn't matter the reason, which is why it's hard to understand...

 

[Rollem Cards]

Wrong & inaccurate.

We've scored points on 25% of our possessions this year with Kyle Bolin at QB. That's 24 points in 16 possessions or 1.5 points per possession. With Lamar Jackson at QB, we have scored 21 times on 48 possessions (43%), precisely 2.6 points per possession.

AJG I am not going to argue with a man who uses facts. It's too hard to win.

 

[ajgcardman]

AJG I am not going to argue with a man who uses facts. It's too hard to win.

 

[Knucklehank1]

Just keep in mind that the stats you used included 7 scores against a bad FCS opponent. Bolin hasn't been afforded the same opportunity against a layup opponent.

Anyways I am a big Petrino fan and think Lamar Jackson is supremely talented. I just don't understand the offense we are running. If this year is about growth and learning why not run the power spread?

 

[nccardfan]

Ghost,

Nobody said I wanted Jackson to get hurt but it does happen. If you don't recruit over at each position you don't get better or at least you don't stay consistent. That's how the big boys play. Oh so you didn't like that comparison? Try REGGIE BONNAFON. It's obvious that he was was going to be a QB this season and well now you know the rest of the story...

 

[BPGhost]

Ghost,

Nobody said I wanted Jackson to get hurt but it does happen. If you don't recruit over at each position you don't get better or at least you don't stay consistent. That's how the big boys play. Oh so you didn't like that comparison? Try REGGIE BONNAFON. It's obvious that he was was going to be a QB this season and well now you know the rest of the story...

I wasn't suggesting that you wanted anyone to get hurt, I was making a joke about the specific instance that allowed for Carwell Jones' ascension to the top spot at Ohio State.

You said that teams are essentially "obligated" to play recruits such as Jackson because "they want to play immediately ". Following that premise - next year Pass would be the starter. The big problem with that, is that Pass is not a read option guy so if he comes in as the starter, we are switching offensive schemes again.

RB had every opportunity provided to him to be the starting QB - he just failed to get the job done - totally different scenario than OSU situation. If he had been more effective, Jackson would be the back up. I just think it's interesting than Petrino has basically written Bolin (and Gardener if his rib injury has healed) off as options to run his offense.

 

[nccardfan]

Ghost,

That is why I wonder if there is more to this "feed the studs" mentality that seems to exist now with Bobby? Yes, there is a likely scenario that Pass if he comes in, will get an opportunity to be the starting QB and if he clicks (right now I wouldn't say our offense is a juggernaut, although LJ is capable of big plays) yes Bobby will play him as he continues to play Wiggins, Clemons and fields.