Jurich...

[Thecycle27]

I really don't understand linking Jurich and Tyra. To different guys in 2 different times in college sports. Jurich enter Louisville in the growth era of college sports. He did a masterful in figuring out TV was going to save Louisville, he knew he had to get into a better conference, and he understood how to raise money. That passion led to the ACC. He should always be appreciated for his leadership in guiding Louisville during the phase of college sports.

The reality is he stayed too long. Over that time he was accumulating enemies eventually there were enough to bring him down. He was always going to stand by his coaches which is OK when everyone trusts you 100 percent. In the end he thought he was untouchable which led to making poor decisions in his 2 biggest sports.

Enter Tyra who is entering an era of downsizing phase of college sports. This is a completely different monster to manage. Viewership, TV and attendance, is trending down nationally in both the major revenue producing sports. Less eyes means less sponsorship. Both football and basketball face significant obstacles that may eventually change college athletics forever. Football is king if it's popularity drops significantly then every college program will be in jeopardy or there will be a significant correction. This era is going to much more difficult to manage than the growth era. College football is becoming a regional sport which is not a good thing. Tyra has his hands full as do most college AD's.

 

[teamcanada]

Last time I checked, the basketball team was on the fringe of the Top 25 with some pretty nice wins on its resume. And more than 7,000 empty seats at its last home game.

"Not winning" is an excuse...

So you think people are staying home because Tyra is the AD?

 

[ShortCreek]

So you think people are staying home because Tyra is the AD?

Arctic Blast is Tyra’s fault too!

 

[zipp]

Louisville is a top ten program historically. A proud program. Who gets excited about being a fringe top 25 team?

It isn’t rocket science and the average fan doesn’t care who puts on a suite and tie and works behind the scenes. Just win.

If you are trying to convince people that folks aren’t attending games because of who the Arhletic Director is then you are out of touch. That’s ridiculous.

So you think people are staying home because Tyra is the AD?

People are staying away because they don't support U of L anymore. Most of it IMO is related to one or more of the people in current leadership. "Vince" puts his face out there more than anyone, Neeli is a close 2nd. Obviously, people still hate Gruesome--take your pick. But to say it's one guy and not the other is wrong.

And it's just as clearly having less to do with who went before them, and instead about them. It's illogical to keep thinking that new leadership has fan support, but fans are staying away. It's equally illogical to keep thinking that "scandal fatigue" never wears off--if it ever existed in significant proportions. Those are excuses, and they're getting harder for people to rationalize. Hell, attendance is actually going DOWN as the season plays out...BC was the 2nd lowest home crowd next to Lipscomb.

But some of you guys keep trying. I'll give you an 'A' for effort...

 

[zipp]

I really don't understand linking Jurich and Tyra. To different guys in 2 different times in college sports. Jurich enter Louisville in the growth era of college sports. He did a masterful in figuring out TV was going to save Louisville, he knew he had to get into a better conference, and he understood how to raise money. That passion led to the ACC. He should always be appreciated for his leadership in guiding Louisville during the phase of college sports.

The reality is he stayed too long. Over that time he was accumulating enemies eventually there were enough to bring him down. He was always going to stand by his coaches which is OK when everyone trusts you 100 percent. In the end he thought he was untouchable which led to making poor decisions in his 2 biggest sports.

Enter Tyra who is entering an era of downsizing phase of college sports. This is a completely different monster to manage. Viewership, TV and attendance, is trending down nationally in both the major revenue producing sports. Less eyes means less sponsorship. Both football and basketball face significant obstacles that may eventually change college athletics forever. Football is king if it's popularity drops significantly then every college program will be in jeopardy or there will be a significant correction. This era is going to much more difficult to manage than the growth era. College football is becoming a regional sport which is not a good thing. Tyra has his hands full as do most college AD's.

If you can show me with any kind of fact-based reference how the transition between phases--growth and downsizing--coincidentally sync-ed up with the exit of Jurich and the appearance of "Vince", I'll listen. Otherwise, all of that is simply after-the-fact story telling...

 

[Thecycle27]

If you can show me with any kind of fact-based reference how the transition between phases--growth and downsizing--coincidentally sync-ed up with the exit of Jurich and the appearance of "Vince", I'll listen. Otherwise, all of that is simply after-the-fact story telling...

Look around the national landscape college basketball/football attendance is down and TV viewership is down even in the NFL. Stadiums aren't full in either basketball or football. That is happening, I not sure what kind of proof you need. Turn on any college basketball game you see empty seats in every area, outside a very few.

The downsizing may of not occurred yet, but if the viewership continues to decline downsizing is inevitable. You basically admit this when you say golf at Louisville will go away. It has nothing to do with Jurich leaving or Tyra coming in it is a shift in how people consume their time.

 

[KerryRhodes]

So you think people are staying home because Tyra is the AD?

Yep.

He thinks this 1000%

 

[teamcanada]

People are staying away because they don't support U of L anymore. Most of it IMO is related to one or more of the people in current leadership. "Vince" puts his face out there more than anyone, Neeli is a close 2nd. Obviously, people still hate Gruesome--take your pick. But to say it's one guy and not the other is wrong.

And it's just as clearly having less to do with who went before them, and instead about them. It's illogical to keep thinking that new leadership has fan support, but fans are staying away. It's equally illogical to keep thinking that "scandal fatigue" never wears off--if it ever existed in significant proportions. Those are excuses, and they're getting harder for people to rationalize. Hell, attendance is actually going DOWN as the season plays out...BC was the 2nd lowest home crowd next to Lipscomb.

But some of you guys keep trying. I'll give you an 'A' for effort...

If they aren't supporting UofL it's because of the repeated scandals. 99% of the fans couldn't give a rats behind as to who the AD is.

 

[zipp]

Look around the national landscape college basketball/football attendance is down and TV viewership is down even in the NFL. Stadiums aren't full in either basketball or football. That is happening, I not sure what kind of proof you need. Turn on any college basketball game you see empty seats in every area, outside a very few.

The downsizing may of not occurred yet, but if the viewership continues to decline downsizing is inevitable. You basically admit this when you say golf at Louisville will go away. It has nothing to do with Jurich leaving or Tyra coming in it is a shift in how people consume their time.

The macro trends do not explain Louisville's situation, and I should put that in CAPS.

You can try all you want to explain away what you're seeing in our backyard, but that's simply denial. The facts and pattern of events have lined up pretty clearly behind the exit of the old regime and the appearance of the new one.

That point is only made clearer with the passage of time, which is why I enjoy watching all of this play out. I support the players and coaches, and I can't/refuse to do anything more until I see results...

 

[zipp]

If they aren't supporting UofL it's because of the repeated scandals. 99% of the fans couldn't give a rats behind as to who the AD is.

You're wrong about that, and I challenge you to do more than simply express an opinion.

I find no one--NOBODY--who complains to me about U of L now based on people in history. All of the complaints are based on what's happening now, as it should be.

Like I said, it's illogical to believe that U of L now has the support of fans, while fans are staying away in increasing numbers. If "Vince" is connecting with fans, fans would show up. At a minimum, it's easy to argue he's failing at that.

And your own credibility is going down the longer you defend him against these deficiencies...

 

[Rollem Cards]

There’s a couple or four on here that can’t seem to grasp the fact that if NOT for the previous “clown show” we are not arguing about this.

We are still competing with Cincy and Memphis and have a John Pelphrey type HBBC.

But we’re not. And it’s because of the previous “clown show”.

And every time you guys call them “clowns” you show your COMPLETE ignorance.

 

[cyanide_78]

You're wrong about that, and I challenge you to do more than simply express an opinion.

I find no one--NOBODY--who complains to me about U of L now based on people in history. All of the complaints are based on what's happening now, as it should be.

Like I said, it's illogical to believe that U of L now has the support of fans, while fans are staying away in increasing numbers. If "Vince" is connecting with fans, fans would show up. At a minimum, it's easy to argue he's failing at that.

And your own credibility is going down the longer you defend him against these deficiencies...

Kentucky is the yearly attendance champ. It’s totally because of how well Mitch Barnhart connects with the fan base. Right? I mean by your logic of course it is. Right on man.

 

[teamcanada]

You're wrong about that, and I challenge you to do more than simply express an opinion.

I find no one--NOBODY--who complains to me about U of L now based on people in history. All of the complaints are based on what's happening now, as it should be.

Like I said, it's illogical to believe that U of L now has the support of fans, while fans are staying away in increasing numbers. If "Vince" is connecting with fans, fans would show up. At a minimum, it's easy to argue he's failing at that.

And your own credibility is going down the longer you defend him against these deficiencies...

Well just a small sample are the people on this board and it running about 20-1 that you don't have a clue.

 

[HRTheCard]

 

[zipp]

Kentucky is the yearly attendance champ. It’s totally because of how well Mitch Barnhart connects with the fan base. Right? I mean by your logic of course it is. Right on man.

Brainfart hasn't lost 7,000 fans from the average basketball game. Our guy's in a lifeboat...

 

[zipp]

Well just a small sample are the people on this board and it running about 20-1 that you don't have a clue.

The people on this message board skew fanboy. Not everyone, but way too many. That clouds your judgment of reality. And you tend to make excuses for what your eyes tell you...

 

[cardsp]

B

...equals to hell with success.

Congrats, you're gettin' what you want...[/QUOTEyes we are a Basketball coach

Last time I checked, the basketball team was on the fringe of the Top 25 with some pretty nice wins on its resume. And more than 7,000 empty seats at its last home game.

"Not winning" is an excuse...

 

[cyanide_78]

Brainfart hasn't lost 7,000 fans from the average basketball game. Our guy's in a lifeboat...

And the average basketball fan still doesn’t care. You’re talking about people who decide to attend games based on ticket price, parking, schedule, family obligations, distance, and oh yeah....how good the team is. Don’t confuse your personal metrics for those of the masses. Regular folks could care less about the AD. That’s a fact.

 

[zipp]

And the average basketball fan still doesn’t care. You’re talking about people who decide to attend games based on ticket price, parking, schedule, family obligations, distance, and oh yeah....how good the team is. Don’t confuse your personal metrics for those of the masses. Regular folks could care less about the AD. That’s a fact.

You mean a third of our basketball fans started suddenly having issues with money, families, etc. a little over a year ago? And that coincidentally was when the new regime took over?

Is that what intelligent people are supposed to believe?...

 

[cyanide_78]

You mean a third of our basketball fans started suddenly having issues with money, families, etc. a little over a year ago? And that coincidentally was when the new regime took over?

Is that what intelligent people are supposed to believe?...

Nobody cares who the AD is.

 

[zipp]

Nobody cares who the AD is.

You didn't answer those questions, nor did I think you had answers...

 

[KerryRhodes]

You didn't answer those questions, nor did I think you had answers...

Nobody

Cares

Who

The

AD

is.

Period.

 

[zipp]

Nobody Cares Who The AD is. Period.

7,000 former basketball season ticket holders--or some of them--disagree.

You guys don't have answers...

 

[KerryRhodes]

7,000 former basketball season ticket holders--or some of them--disagree.

You guys don't have answers...

I surmise those are Jurich/Pitino worshippers who refuse to acknowledge their negligence.

Also without the tax write offs , some fans didnt renew.

As previously stated, the Cards will be back into the top 3 soon.

Would have already been had they built rhe 25,000 seat, on campus arena named the Denny Dome( Denny Crum Arena)

 

[rockycard]

7,000 former basketball season ticket holders--or some of them--disagree.

You guys don't have answers...

Give me a gym with 5,000 empty seats over a program supplying hookers and paying players. You need to be out with your poster protesting zippy. Lol

 

[zipp]

Give me a gym with 5,000 empty seats over a program supplying hookers and paying players. You need to be out with your poster protesting zippy. Lol

5,000 season ticket holders represent a lot more revenue than $20 hos.

The view from up there on that moral high ground must be impressive...

 

[zipp]

I surmise those are Jurich/Pitino worshippers who refuse to acknowledge their negligence...

Sure, it's the fault of thousands of fans. I was wondering when that "logic" would start...

 

[cyanide_78]

Sure, it's the fault of thousands of fans. I was wondering when that "logic" would start...

Put down the shovel.

 

[Knucklehank1]

Some combination of changing demographics, new tax code, scandals and coaching transition caused the vast majority of the attendance decline. Whomever the AD is has no bearing on that decision process except for maybe a few odd birds. And as anyone who deals with customers will tell you, it’s very difficult to get a customer back after they leave.

 

[Sawyer]

I hope it doesn't happen, but hope has nothing to do with it. Golf is an easy decision for "Vince" since he's obviously gonna have to cut budgets. You can get rid of an equal number of scholarships and obsolete a facility that's costing you serious money to operate. And golf is nowhere close to the stature of many other U of L programs.

I predict it's gone in a few years. And when I'm wrong on timing issues, it's usually being too optimistic...

If you think golf is not a big deal in the ACC you might be wrong. Golf is not a sport that makes financial sense to anyone, especially those that do not play the game and tend to lean to the left. The ACC is probably more committed to golf than any conference in the nation. As long as we are in the ACC the University Club is going nowhere.

 

[zipp]

Some combination of changing demographics, new tax code, scandals and coaching transition caused the vast majority of the attendance decline. Whomever the AD is has no bearing on that decision process except for maybe a few odd birds. And as anyone who deals with customers will tell you, it’s very difficult to get a customer back after they leave.

And how did that "vast majority" kick in one-plus years ago for each of those factors? Let's deal with numbers and data and not just arm waving. I'll help with that if you need the raw data...

 

[zipp]

If you think golf is not a big deal in the ACC you might be wrong. Golf is not a sport that makes financial sense to anyone, especially those that do not play the game and tend to lean to the left. The ACC is probably more committed to golf than any conference in the nation. As long as we are in the ACC the University Club is going nowhere.

Golf is not strategic to U of L. The only reason "Vince" will fight to keep it is his image. He's overseeing our financial demise; he doesn't wanna be the guy cancelling sports. But in the end, he will bow to his budget...

 

[Knucklehank1]

And how did that "vast majority" kick in one-plus years ago for each of those factors? Let's deal with numbers and data and not just arm waving. I'll help with that if you need the raw data...

Well there have been a lot of things changing in the last couple years: the tax code change was signed into legislation, the newest scandal was unveiled on top of the next oldest scandal, the coaches changed including an interim coach period. I know...lots of data points for you to deal with “Zipp”.

 

[PushupMan]

Part of the problem we’ve been having since 2010 is that the top half of the KFC Yum Center was way overpriced, even at $40 per ticket. The only good thing about those seats is the opportunity to have a night out with friends and to be there enjoying the crowd excitement. They are very poor seats from which to watch a basketball game, unless you actually enjoy watching a game through your knees....

A fairly high percentage of those seats even had seat licenses on them that made them cost significantly more than $40 per ticket. Take away the tax break, and add in the Yum Center surcharge UofL needs to help pay down the arena debt, and you have given loyal UofL fans multiple reasons not to pay for very overpriced upper arena seats.

All of those disincentives have happened in the last couple of years, in addition to two scandals, one which is still hanging over UofL’s head.

 

[zipp]

Well there have been a lot of things changing in the last couple years: the tax code change was signed into legislation...

...A fairly high percentage of [upper arena] seats even had seat licenses on them that made them cost significantly more than $40 per ticket. Take away the tax break, and add in the Yum Center surcharge UofL needs to help pay down the arena debt, and you have given loyal UofL fans multiple reasons not to pay for very overpriced upper arena seats...

Ain't buying it except as an excuse... A tax deduction doesn't mean you pay nothing. If you were in a 30% bracket, losing a deduction simply meant you were paying around 40% more for that donation (100/70). And you could have easily compensated for that by spending 30% less for that privilege. You think U of L wouldn't give you a 30% discount to list prices at the moment on upper arena seats? (They're charging less whether you ask or not... LINK)

And anyone b!tching about ticket prices, pre- or after-tax, just wants to b!tch. Prices have never been cheaper to see just about any game you want. I know because that's what I pay.

As I said, excuses...

 

[Knucklehank1]

Ain't buying it except as an excuse... A tax deduction doesn't mean you pay nothing. If you were in a 30% bracket, losing a deduction simply meant you were paying around 40% more for that donation (100/70). And you could have easily compensated for that by spending 30% less for that privilege. You think U of L wouldn't give you a 30% discount to list prices at the moment on upper arena seats? (They're charging less whether you ask or not... LINK)

And anyone b!tching about ticket prices, pre- or after-tax, just wants to b!tch. Prices have never been cheaper to see just about any game you want. I know because that's what I pay.

As I said, excuses...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chriss...e-athletic-departments-millions/#58b41a79abea

 

[Knucklehank1]

"And anyone b!tching about ticket prices, pre- or after-tax, just wants to b!tch. Prices have never been cheaper to see just about any game you want. I know because that's what I pay."

Congrats. We admire your frugality. Anyways, I still have season tickets however I've contemplated dropping them. I can guarantee that if I drop them then I will not attend nearly as many games as I do now regardless of how cheap I can procure individual game tickets. That's why it was unfortunate that those many factors converged at once to create the attendance issue we are seeing. People that don't already have the tickets in hand are less apt to go out and continually buy tickets.

 

[zipp]

Journalists aren't tax accountants. And anyone looking for an excuse--AD, journalist, or fan--will use the best one available.

The math is what it is. A tax deductible donation doesn't mean you get a 100% CREDIT for that donation. That's called a "tax credit". If you refuse to donate more after tax with new tax rules, you simply deduct the amount of your previous tax savings from your new donation. It's the same effect after tax.

And as I said, U of L will gladly--GLADLY--invoice you for a 40% smaller donation in the upper arena to keep your patronage. Why wouldn't they when they're almost giving tickets away?

Excuses...

 

[zipp]

...People that don't already have the tickets in hand are less apt to go out and continually buy tickets.

Fail. I buy tix from secondary market websites all the time unless U of L contacts me that they're giving tickets away on their own--which is becoming commonplace...

 

[Knucklehank1]

Fail. I buy tix from secondary market websites all the time unless U of L contacts me that they're giving tickets away on their own--which is becoming commonplace...

That’s great but you aren’t representative of most people.