How many programs had a coach that was a guaranteed success? Us getting Pitino was rare instance. Even for the blue bloods their hires were risks. You can't expect to replace Pitino with a guy that is already a Hall of Famer unless something unlikely happens again. The previous Xavier coaches have all had success but their results don't prove Mack would be good or bad. If Sean Miller didn't recruit like he did, we'd be lauding his elite 8s.
John Beilein - Was He Considered?
- Thread starter Ipartiedwithhopgood
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How many programs had a coach that was a guaranteed success? Us getting Pitino was rare instance. Even for the blue bloods their hires were risks. You can't expect to replace Pitino with a guy that is already a Hall of Famer unless something unlikely happens again. The previous Xavier coaches have all had success but their results don't prove Mack would be good or bad. If Sean Miller didn't recruit like he did, we'd be lauding his elite 8s.
You mean we have to wait 5 years before we know he’s a good coach? For the record, I wasn’t advocating Hoiberg but I would have put feelers out to him and before he left for the NBA, he was last year’s Chris Mack and Mark Few before that.
Pitino was hired by Louisville in 2001.
Roy Williams was hired by Carolina in 2004.
Nick Saban was hired by Bama in 2007.
Urban Meyer was hired by Ohio State in 2011.
How rare is something that's happened at least three times since Pitino was hired by U of L?...
Thats four hires in 17 years out of how many if you are counting football now. They were also all unique circumstances. Williams was a Unc grad who was going back to his alma mater. It probably explains why he makes so little now. Saban was like Pitino. He was struggling in the pro game and came back to college. How often are we going to count on that happening? Meyer randomly retired from Fla then decided he was coaching again a year later. How rarely have coaches retired on top like that then decided to go back.
No, I said that Beilein and Huggins have history over Mack. Their careers aren't equal because they have been coaching longer. That doesn't necessarily mean they are actually better coaches. If you compare resumes you are looking at one guys whole career basically vs half of the others.
Those are just the ones off the top of my head in the five minutes it took me to find the years they hired into their current gigs and respond to you. And who cares whether they changed from pro to college? They were elite coaches when they moved, and they made themselves available.
You said those situations are rare; they are not. You just have to make the effort to pursue one of those guys. Mack was an easy hire and isn't elite, at least not yet...
Bill Self was the only other BB coach I would put on the list and he wasn't a sure thing at the time since it was early in his career.
You were able to name those situations easily cause they were memorable since they weren't an every day thing. i mentioned the reasons behind the changes because each move had a backstory that made them possible. Pitino had resigned from the Celtics cause it was very likely he was going to be fired anyhow. He was looking at other jobs besides UofL. Saban was struggling in the pros also and got out when an offer arose. Urban Meyer didn't have a job. Williams is the closest to what you are talking about and we don't have any Louisville grads who are elite coaches waiting to come back?
Brad Stevens and Donovan both made the playoffs so their seats probably aren't getting hot after this season. Is there a hall of fame coach like Meyer unemployed (not Pitino) waiting for our call? I guess we could wait around a few seasons with Davenport of Padgett and see if Donovan gets fired but that isn't realistic.
Texas football, multiple hires. UK basketball has had multiple hires. Southern Cal football. ND football. UNC had Matt Doherty 3 yrs. Michigan football. Nebraska football. Indiana basketball. LSU football. Auburn football. FLA football. UCLA basketball.
There are many examples of "college blue blood" sports programs making hires that were not home runs.
There are simply not that many HR hires out there any more, and it doesn't appear any are available for college basketball at this time. Indiana just hired Archie Miller for Christs sake. Not only is he not a HR, he's not even an extra base hit. Steve Alford at UCLA? Yikes. Remember Billy G? He got whipped. Matt Doherty could be the biggest LOL out of them all.
The NBA coaches fans have listed simply aren't attainable - but that said, we have no idea if they were contacted.
There are many examples of "college blue blood" sports programs making hires that were not home runs.
There are simply not that many HR hires out there any more, and it doesn't appear any are available for college basketball at this time. Indiana just hired Archie Miller for Christs sake. Not only is he not a HR, he's not even an extra base hit. Steve Alford at UCLA? Yikes. Remember Billy G? He got whipped. Matt Doherty could be the biggest LOL out of them all.
The NBA coaches fans have listed simply aren't attainable - but that said, we have no idea if they were contacted.
Well, there aren't any if you're not gonna try. I don't accept the premise that those coaches aren't or weren't available. If they weren't available for Tyra, that's on him; he's the wrong guy in the job...
I’m surprised Jay Wright wouldn’t want to leave this Nova team. Sure they return everyone next year but that’s not that big of a deal. And Brad Stevens and Billy Donovan both have NBA playoff teams. As if that is important. No way can I accept the premise that they aren’t willing and able to leave these marginal situations they are in!
It's pretty hard to have this discussion if you think Brad Stevens was available, or that a guy that is super friends with Pitino would be interested in this job while he's currently coaching Russ Westbrook.
You're just out of touch with reality in this regard.
Love most your takes but this one is from Mars.
In these threads the names mentioned are always Stevens and Billy D.
If you are zeroing in on Wright that is a still a pretty massive reach IMO but not nearly as bad of a reach as the other two.
If you keep repeating the same thought, it doesn’t make it true. Yes, Jurich and Wright are friends. Yes, earlier in Wright’s career Jurich might have been able to pull Wright to Louisville. However when the Powell stuff broke, Wright was in the middle of a championship season. He once again is in a championship season. He isn’t leaving Villanova in the middle of this. He returns damn near his whole team next year. Jesus could be the AD and rise from the dead in front of Jay Wright and he isn’t leaving Nova (Happy Easter btw). Once you accept that, perhaps you can move forward.
I believe zipp may be stretching the rumor mill a bit here. What knucklehank said would be, in my opinion, closer to the truth of the situation. WTH, it’s rumored that Bear Bryant and Frank Camp were close back in the 50s and 60s but I don’t think the Bear was an option when Coach Camp retired. Coach Hickman was, in fact, friends with John Wooden and that is how we ended up with Denny Crum. Perhaps Jay Wright would have been a candidate for our job but his affinity for Villanova is pretty tight. I think we got a good coach in Chris Mack and am looking forward to the future of our basketball program.
GO CARDS - BEAT EVERYBODY!!! God Bless America!!!
You have no idea about that. You're just speculating as an apologist trying trying to make your guy(s) look good...
knucklehead has no clue about most things. My info comes directly from people who knew and had spoken to Jurich about the next basketball coach.
While folks are watching Nova win another championship tomorrow nite, visualize what could have been...
You don’t have a clue what you are talking about. You are just trying to make Tyra look bad. You don’t actually think Jay Wright would leave a national championship team but it feeds your subversive agenda. Your post is complete and utter bullish!t. Fortunately most fans on here are knowledgeable enough to see through this and are quite happy about the great young Coach we hired. Get over your bitterness! Bitter is no way to go through life!
As I've told you, I'm OK with this situation. My info comes from people in places who would know. Either U of L succeeds, or I'm right about Tyra and the clown show. In the latter case, I can hammer a$$holes who were longtime apologists for these clowns.
So life is good...
Wow, this is unbelievable! You are ok if your team fails! SAD!
It’s hilarious that months into this discussion you suddenly discovered a “source” close to Jurich. Yeah, I’m sure if it wasn’t Jay Wright, then Stevens and Donovan were next in line. Does your source have any other interesting “facts”? Let me guess, if Dan McDonnell were to retire, Jurich would hire Joe Maddon while Nick Saban is his replacement for Petrino. What a joke.
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I've also told you I'm OK with people getting what they deserve, good or bad. If Tyra fails and he leaves in disgrace, it won't matter at all that he was a U of L fanboy. And it esp. won't bother me that you supported him. You just don't like that possibility or likelihood.
If or when McDonnell leaves, I'll let you what I hear then. No one's talking about that yet. But with Tyra here, maybe they should be...
Your first paragraph doesn’t flow well. Regardless, I’m a fan of UofL. On the other hand, you are ok with UofL failing. The fact of the matter is that you are irrationally negative, especially towards Tyra.
And it is hilarious that you suddenly have a “source”. Interestingly enough, you mention the source after the hire was made and it suspiciously fits your subversive agenda.
I'm a realist, neither negative or positive and probably neutral on balance.
This is the first time you've heard about the friendship between the Wrights and Juriches? You're either lying or living in a bubble...
You are chemically imbalanced when it comes to Tyra. You’ve calmed him an “idiot” and “scumbag” amongst other derogatory terms.
You have selective reading. In this thread I acknowledged that Jurich and Wright are friends. You replied to that post about 70 minutes ago for christ-sakes. I’m guessing your “source” forgot to add the part where Jurich knee he couldn’t pry Wright away from Nova during a championship run.
What I've heard was "Wright was the next coach" along with your clown show speculation and diversion. Yes, you've had a few friends doing the same thing, none of it matters.
Your narrative is now that Mack was the #1 choice which is odd for an AD that supposedly rang up every elite coach who simply wouldn't come to U of L. All I've been asking for is clarity and transparency on that, something that the clown show and its apologists have a problem with...
Your narrative is now that Mack was the #1 choice which is odd for an AD that supposedly rang up every elite coach who simply wouldn't come to U of L. All I've been asking for is clarity and transparency on that, something that the clown show and its apologists have a problem with...
Sure, this whole time you’ve just been crusading for clarity and transparency! My narrative all along was that Jurich had identified Mack as the replacement for Pitino had the Powell stuff led to a firing or resignation. Other posters had heard similar sentiments. You don’t like Tyra, so you don’t like his hire (coincidentally it’s the hire Jurich most likely would’ve made). Unfortunately that part doesn’t fit your agenda so you now make up a “source”. Whatever floats your boat.
I don't keep track of every clown show member and volunteer. If you weren't opining that Tyra covered a lot more bases than just Mack, you're one of the few. And that's not a pass for you...
If Tyra didn't try to get a true home run coach, why the hell not? Jurich would have--another hire like Pitino's. Are you acknowledging already that Tyra's a small thinker?...
Since 1990, there has only been 2 coaches leave from the winning or losing team in the National Championship game to another college basketball team and that was Roy Williams (Kansas to his Alma Mater in UNC and also a top 3 program) and John Calipari (mid-major Memphis to UK which is 1 of 3 most coveted/highest paying college basketball coaching jobs). So this idea that Jay Wright or John Beilein were or will be in play is completely unfounded. The "Weeds" can keep trying to undermine Tyra's hiring of Chris Mack, but until they show some real data that "home run coach" could have been hired at Louisville, they are just spouting nothing but hot air.
2017 Roy Williams vs. Mark Few
2016 Jay Wright vs. Roy Williams
2015 Mike Krzyzewski vs. Bo Ryan
2014 Kevin Ollie vs. John Calipari
2013 Rick Pitino vs. John Beilein
2012 John Calipari vs. Bill Self
2011 Jim Calhoun vs. Brad Stevens
2010 Mike Krzyzewski vs. Brad Stevens
2009 Roy Williams vs. Tom Izzo
2008 Bill Self vs. John Calipari
2007 Billy Donovan vs. Thad Matta
2006 Billy Donovan vs. Ben Holand
2005 Roy Williams vs. Bruce Weber
2004 Jim Calhoun vs. Paul Hewitt
2003 Jim Boeheim vs. Roy Williams
2002 Gary Williams vs. Mike Davis
2001 Mike Krzyzewski vs. Lute Olson
2000 Tom Izzo vs. Billy Donovan
1999 Jim Calhoun vs. Mike Krzyzewski
1998 Tubby Smith vs. Rick Majerus
1997 Lute Olson vs. Rick Pitino
1996 Rick Pitino vs. Jim Boeheim
1995 Jim Harrick vs. Nolan Richardson
1994 Nolan Richardson vs. Mike Krzyzewski
1993 Dean Smith vs. Steve Fisher
1992 Mike Krzyzewski vs. Steve Fisher
1991 Mike Krzyzewski vs. Roy Williams
1990 Jerry Tarkanian vs. Mike Krzyzewski
2017 Roy Williams vs. Mark Few
2016 Jay Wright vs. Roy Williams
2015 Mike Krzyzewski vs. Bo Ryan
2014 Kevin Ollie vs. John Calipari
2013 Rick Pitino vs. John Beilein
2012 John Calipari vs. Bill Self
2011 Jim Calhoun vs. Brad Stevens
2010 Mike Krzyzewski vs. Brad Stevens
2009 Roy Williams vs. Tom Izzo
2008 Bill Self vs. John Calipari
2007 Billy Donovan vs. Thad Matta
2006 Billy Donovan vs. Ben Holand
2005 Roy Williams vs. Bruce Weber
2004 Jim Calhoun vs. Paul Hewitt
2003 Jim Boeheim vs. Roy Williams
2002 Gary Williams vs. Mike Davis
2001 Mike Krzyzewski vs. Lute Olson
2000 Tom Izzo vs. Billy Donovan
1999 Jim Calhoun vs. Mike Krzyzewski
1998 Tubby Smith vs. Rick Majerus
1997 Lute Olson vs. Rick Pitino
1996 Rick Pitino vs. Jim Boeheim
1995 Jim Harrick vs. Nolan Richardson
1994 Nolan Richardson vs. Mike Krzyzewski
1993 Dean Smith vs. Steve Fisher
1992 Mike Krzyzewski vs. Steve Fisher
1991 Mike Krzyzewski vs. Roy Williams
1990 Jerry Tarkanian vs. Mike Krzyzewski
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The problem with your synopsis is that U of L or whoever already made a decision to hire Mack before the tournament played out. There were no guarantees that Villanova was going to trounce Kansas and for a half it looked Loyola would have been in the
Championship game. It’s easy to analyze after the facts...
Tyra apologists try to focus the debate on ONE hypothetical coach or school to argue that coach wouldn't have considered the U of L job. The issue is about the PROCESS, not a given coach. And many apologists are now saying that Mack was the #1 choice as some type of testament to both Tyra's and Mack's abilities.
Apologists ignore the fact that most of us recommending an ATTEMPT at a home run weren't targeting a specific coach. For example, Billy Donovan is not a coach on pig's list above--he's an NBA coach. (Now, watch them divert this into a debate about Donovan...)
And the "#1 choice" tag further undermines their arguments. Apologists claim that Tyra was pursuing true home run hires like Donovan, and that those coaches simply would not consider U of L. If that's true, how can Mack be the #1 choice? And how does Kenny Payne meet Tyra's definition of the "elite" coach that Tyra said he was recruiting?
None of this garbage hangs together because we have a greenhorn for an AD. He tries to clear the low bar that the scumbags and his apologists have set for him. And then we have to hear after-the-fact bull$hit about how great that is. It's how we risk spiralling downward when the formerly unacceptable or average now becomes the gold standard...
Apologists ignore the fact that most of us recommending an ATTEMPT at a home run weren't targeting a specific coach. For example, Billy Donovan is not a coach on pig's list above--he's an NBA coach. (Now, watch them divert this into a debate about Donovan...)
And the "#1 choice" tag further undermines their arguments. Apologists claim that Tyra was pursuing true home run hires like Donovan, and that those coaches simply would not consider U of L. If that's true, how can Mack be the #1 choice? And how does Kenny Payne meet Tyra's definition of the "elite" coach that Tyra said he was recruiting?
None of this garbage hangs together because we have a greenhorn for an AD. He tries to clear the low bar that the scumbags and his apologists have set for him. And then we have to hear after-the-fact bull$hit about how great that is. It's how we risk spiralling downward when the formerly unacceptable or average now becomes the gold standard...
Lol. Zipp you interjected Jay Wright into the discussion. When that got refuted, you deflect to this “hypothetical” ambiguous wider net. Only one person can be head coach.
And just so we are clear, Tyra is an idiot and scumbag in your opinion, and implying that Chris Mack is unacceptable and average.
And just so we are clear, Tyra is an idiot and scumbag in your opinion, and implying that Chris Mack is unacceptable and average.
The WEEDS (you included) have been the one's stroking Beilein and Wright. I provided actual data that supports that fact that "homerun coaches" in college basketball do not move to other schools but once in a blue moon.
The WEEDS continue to say Tyra didn't pursue Billy Donovan. Please provide us any proof that Tyra did not pursue Donovan! When you hire a coach in September with an Interim title that gives you the ability to search for a replacement immediately. Did you track every phone call and trip that Tyra took? How do you know he didn't meet with Donovan at some point between September and March? How do you know that Tyra did not call Billy Donovan or his agent?
The WEEDS will just say....."Tyra needs to be transparent and tell us every coach that he spoke to about the job!" Which is about the dumbest thing anyone who is trying to hire a head coach would do.
I didn't interject Jay Wright; my source did. Now, attack that please since you're good at that. I would have been happy with Donovan. Again, there is/was more than one home run hire candidate out there. Clown show apologists like focusing the debate on one guy.
Tyra has zero AD credentials. I understand he's very astute at other things. He was hired by scumbags, and he's part of and comfortable in that culture. How much of that makes him a scumbag himself is TBD. We know already he's a liar....
Thread was created March 26th and Michigan hadn't reached the final game yet. Chris Mack had also not been hired by March 26th - so you shouldn't take this thread as an undercut to Mack, and you shouldn't apply your final game logic to the thread either. There wasn't a need for your research really because nobody has been advocating Beilein over Mack, especially after Mack was announced.
So your point doesn't really fit relevance here, but nice research nonetheless.
For the record I am on board with Mack and am hoping for success. Hiring coaches is not easy.
Entire board had been throwing names around about potential hires - creation of this thread was to mention a name of a coach that had not been mentioned yet. Others pointed out his age may have been a reason why we never heard his name for the job.
Other reason was more about Mack being the choice all along. I personally have no insider information and never said I did.
I like both of those coaches, but I also have debated the merits of Tony Bennett. So you can't label me as wanting a championship game coach only. (And that doesn't mean I'm accepting your stats as valid.)
Clown show apologists can't have it both ways. Tyra can't have circled the globe looking for a home run hire, and focused on Mack simultaneously as his #1 coach. One or the other isn't true. All I want to know is which one.
I've never claimed that. What I HAVE wanted is Tyra to articulate his standards for the "elite coach" that he said he was recruiting. NCAA champ or Final Four? NBA coach? What? If he recruited Kenny Payne, that tells me what I needed to know about his qualifiers for "elite"...
Michigan and Beilein were in the 2013 NCAA Finals. How can you forget that? LOL!
Michigan and Beilein were in the 2013 NCAA Finals. How can you forget that? LOL!
Thought your point was leaving the next season.
Got to admit, didn't read your post all that closely - my bad.
Unless I misunderstood, the focus of your argument was the CURRENT game coaches. Have you forgotten that?? LOL...
Michigan and Beilein were in the 2013 NCAA Finals. How can you forget that? LOL!
Harrick did end up at Rhode Island and Georgia does that count?
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