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If Pitino lays down to this UK in December he doesn't deserve to coach here

There's no "fault". Pitino Lite just lands extraordinary talent. And that has next-to-nothing to do with what most people call "coaching".

U of L's record against Duke and UNC since 2010 is 2-6, about the same as our record against LPT. And look at that graph again and add up the number of 5-star kids on Duke's and Carolina's rosters.

Pretty easy analysis.

"Elite program", my a$$....
Your analysis is tired and terrible. We looked like the more talented team out there hands down aside from Ulis. And funny you keep bringing up the high school star system when we let a two star player like Hawkins light us up from the three everytime we got the score closer in the second half.
 
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Stop it dude ! Briscoe didn't even play and Hawkins outplayed Snider this Uk is nowhere near Calimari's other teams so talent is not even the issue Rick doesn't know how to caoch against Calipari plain and simple.
Neither did Mangok. Mahmoud has a sore ankle, Deng a bruised knee, and Lee a lingering heel problem. Bangs and bruises are part of the game.

Rivals disagrees with how much talent YOU think is on this LPT team. And Vegas picked you to lose by two points which is exactly what happened.

I'm not sure what your gripe is other than you hate to lose to LPT. And that's your issue to deal with.

"Elite program", my a$$...
 
Neither did Mangok. Mahmoud has a sore ankle, Deng a bruised knee, and Lee a lingering heel problem. Bangs and bruises are part of the game.

Rivals disagrees with how much talent YOU think is on this LPT team. And Vegas picked you to lose by two points which is exactly what happened.

I'm not sure what your gripe is other than you hate to lose to LPT. And that's your issue to deal with.

"Elite program", my a$$...
UK basically played without two players today with Briscoe being out and Skal didnt even seem like he touched the court today.
 
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...We looked like the more talented team out there hands down aside from Ulis. And funny you keep bringing up the high school star system when we let a two star player like Hawkins light us up from the three everytime we got the score closer in the second half.
Again, it doesn't matter what YOU think things LOOK like. Rivals says LPT is a far more talented team, and it's not even close. Pitino Lite has landed 30+ five-star kids since he's been at LPT. That's rewriting history books.

We lost by two points, which means that ANY ONE of those made three-pointers got the job done. Why single out one guy?

"Elite program", my a$$...
 
I think you had FIVE 5-star kids today who got significant minutes. U of L had ZERO.

Any coach anywhere will tell you that's a significant edge in talent in addition to the home court advantage. Give Pitino and Pitino Lite the same talent, and let's tip it off.

"Elite program", my a$$....

Oh, here you are, over here on the free board.

How many times have you argued against the star system ? Saying it's not a good way to evaluate talent. More than I can count.
 
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Again, it doesn't matter what YOU think things LOOK like. Rivals says LPT is a far more talented team, and it's not even close. Pitino Lite has landed 30+ five-star kids since he's been at LPT. That's rewriting history books.

We lost by two points, which means that ANY ONE of those made three-pointers got the job done. Why single out one guy?

"Elite program", my a$$...
Ok Rivals say UK is the far talented team of the two but that also could be said about ucla and Ohio state also.
 
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Oh, here you are, over here on the free board.

How many times have you argued against the star system ? Saying it's not a good way to evaluate talent. More than I can count.
And here you are, always out of context.

One guy vs. another? Stars don't matter much.

Seven years of recruiting classes, and 30+ stars vs. one or two? Yeah, stars mean a helluva lot.

Try to start following along.

"Elite program", my a$$...
 
This game is nobody's Superbowl. Any fan , from either side, that says that is just looking for excuses. Two elite programs in a rivalry game. That's it! One happens to be on a roll. Frankly, Cal did everything to give the game away. up 16 and lets the lead dwindle to 1 and never use a timeout.....Pathetic.
 
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We lost by two points, which means that ANY ONE of those made three-pointers got the job done. Why single out one guy?

"Elite program", my a$$...
Because based on your stars and that being the reason we lost today, Hawkins was a lowly two star.
 
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Recruiting-wise, those guys aren't even close to LPT. Check the numbers, and not tell me what you think.

"Elite program", my a$$...
You're missing the point. No they aren't five star heavy just like we aren't but they dominated uk, something we never come close to doing.
 
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And Mats Stockman logged some stats today. Did Pitino Lite fail to gameplan for him?

You're micro-analyziing and doing it incorrectly anyway.

"Elite program", my a$$...
While matz had a surprising solid game and definitely held his own on defense,rebounding and in the paint..he didn't have nowhere the game Hawkins had. That two star was clutch and played with fire.
 
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While matz had a surprising solid game and definitely held his own on defense,rebounding and in the paint..he didn't have nowhere the game Hawkins had. That two star was clutch and played with fire.
Stockman's team lost, or you'd be talking about how important he was. Get a grip.

"Elite program", my a$$...
 
Frankly, I'd rather have Lee and Lewis on this UK team than Briscoe and Murray. Rivals says there is no comparison between them but Lee and Lewis are clearly better players.
 
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Stockman's team lost, or you'd be talking about how important he was. Get a grip.

"Elite program", my a$$...
But you're the one who referenced him. That's why I gave him props on a good game. Actually his play today was a positive moving forward imo.
 
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Frankly, I'd rather have Lee and Lewis on this UK team than Briscoe and Murray. Rivals says there is no comparison between them but Lee and Lewis are clearly better players.
Where does the NBA say they are (mock draft)? Just curious since I don't track that stuff.

"Elite program", my a$$...
 
Where does the NBA say they are (mock draft)? Just curious since I don't track that stuff.

"Elite program", my a$$...

I don't put a lot of stock in mock draft position. An NBA GM will take a teenager with "upside" over a 22 year old 5th year senior on most days. I think most would agree that Lee and Lewis are better players right now than either Briscoe or Murray are. Hell, the Briscoe injury may have led directly to UK winning that game. He can't shoot his way out of a paper bag with a shotgun. Hawkins got some of his minutes and actually buried a few threes.
 
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You're missing the point. No they aren't five star heavy just like we aren't but they dominated uk, something we never come close to doing.
What's OSU's and UCLA's record against LPT and Pitino Lite? That's the right comparison.

And you're also overlooking the Super Bowl factor. Those teams aren't circled on the LPT schedule like U of L is.

"Elite program", my a$$...
 
And for the record Zipp, I am in your camp in thinking UK should have at least 1 more title with Calipari. Either the Wall/Cousins or last year's team should have won the title. With the easy SEC schedule every year, UK should always be a top 2 seed. Ironically Cal stumbled to a 4 seed with Knight's team and an 8 seed with the Randle team and made it to the final four both times. But that doesn't forgive not having another title IMO.
 
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The point is you're just as offbase pointing at an LPT bench warmer and saying "he did it".

"Elite program", my a$$...
That LPT benchwarming played way better than two of our starting guards so I'm not nowhere near off base. You're just so blind and consumed with so much hate towards UK that it wears on your knowledge of the game...but hey when it comes to star rankings and useless charts and number crunching you are second to no one and tied in first place with that Jauk11 guy over at Wildcat Lair.
 
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And for the record Zipp, I am in your camp in thinking UK should have at least 1 more title with Calipari. Either the Wall/Cousins or last year's team should have won the title. With the easy SEC schedule every year, UK should always be a top 2 seed. Ironically Cal stumbled to a 4 seed with Knight's team and an 8 seed with the Randle team and made it to the final four both times. But that doesn't forgive not having another title IMO.
I'm afraid he's not winning another one without a franchise ballplayer like AD. And I don't follow your recruiting enough to know whether one of those guys is in the pipeline. They don't come along very often.

"Elite program", my a$$...
 
I'm afraid he's not winning another one without a franchise ballplayer like AD. And I don't follow your recruiting enough to know whether one of those guys is in the pipeline. They don't come along very often.

"Elite program", my a$$...
We won't see another once in a lifetime player like Davis for a very long time. Him and LeBron the same type of rare talent and the gap between the two coming along is a decade.
 
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That LPT benchwarming played way better than two of our starting guards so I'm not nowhere near off base. You're just so blind and consumed with so much hate towards UK that it wears on your knowledge of the game...but hey when it comes to star rankings and useless charts and number crunching you are second to no one and tied in first place with that Jauk11 guy over at Wildcat Lair.
Doesn't matter. In a two-point game, you can point at anyone or anything and say "that did it". That's also flawed analysis.

I can hate on LPT AND undertake objective analysis. They're not mutually exclusive for some of us.

"Elite program", my a$$...
 
Doesn't matter. In a two-point game, you can point at anyone or anything and say "that did it". That's also flawed analysis.

I can hate on LPT AND undertake objective analysis. They're not mutually exclusive for some of us.

"Elite program", my a$$...
But you're the one pointing out five stars being the reason they beat us and I simply stated that it was a two star kid who made the difference for uk.
 
I'm afraid he's not winning another one without a franchise ballplayer like AD. And I don't follow your recruiting enough to know whether one of those guys is in the pipeline. They don't come along very often.

"Elite program", my a$$...

I'm not sure I agree with that. CRP won a title in 1996 with the greatest collection of talent in my lifetime. It would have been easy to say he would never win another title without that kind of overwhelming talent again - and you would have been right for a long time. He had teams from 93-95 that were capable of winning it all and didn't even get them to a title game. Things have to break right to win 4 straight neutral court games against really good teams (the first 2 rounds are typically walkovers for teams seeded at or near the top line.)

As to your second question, no, there isnt anyone like AD in anyone's pipeline.
 
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The two coaches aren't similar. Your guy tries to go with a short bench and relies on being more talented at every position on the floor. That style is complemented by a player of AD's caliber.

Pitino wants to use depth and team play to wear you down. OVERALL talent is more important.

Your roster last year would have played more to Pitino's strength, as an example. A number of talented guys, but none of them extraordinary.

"Elite program", my a$$...
 
The two coaches aren't similar. Your guy tries to go with a short bench and relies on being more talented at every position on the floor. That style is complemented by a player of AD's caliber.

Pitino wants to use depth and team play to wear you down. OVERALL talent is more important.

Your roster last year would have played more to Pitino's strength, as an example. A number of talented guys, but none of them extraordinary.

"Elite program", my a$$...

Agreed, I wasn't comparing their styles so much as saying that titles are really hard to win. It's easy to look at a coach's accomplishments and qualify them with an "if" and "then" type of statement. "If Cal can't win it with Wall and Cousins, he is never winning it." "If Pitino needed 9 NBA players on his 1996 team to win the title, then he isn't going to win another title unless he can duplicate that massive talent gap." "If Roy didn't win a title with all that talent he had at Kansas, then all the talent in the world won't win him one at UNC either."

These all sound good until they are debunked. I do appreciate the cordial back and forth considering I'm on a rival's board. You could easily just tell me t screw off and be done with it :)
 
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Your issue will continue to be fool's gold.

You have significant talent and a weak enough schedule to often rack up gaudy won-lost records and high NCAA seeds. In 3 of the 5 years that you've gone to the NCAA tourney under Pitino Lite, you've been a one-seed. That means you should make a Final Four unless you get upset in EACH of those years.

But that achievement gives you a false sense of accomplishment. If you're overseeded because of your weak schedule and talent advantage, a Final Four becomes the minimum expectation and a championship should also result with some regularity. The problem is you're playing legit teams in the Final Four. And if you get there based on fool's gold to some extent, you get disappointed more often than not.

Talking about Final Fours should keep your coach employed. But it's only championships that should bring accolades.

"Elite program", my a$$...
 
12.6 seconds left to tie or win the game. What would Denny have drawn up on the board? I'm surprised RP even called a time-out.
RP is one of the best pre-game preparations coach's in the college game, but his end game play calling is not his strength.

Both teams played hard and thankfully no one was injured. We may meet again in March when the chips are on the table.

Go CARDS!
 
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12.6 seconds left to tie or win the game. What would Denny have drawn up on the board? I'm surprised RP even called a time-out.
RP is one of the best pre-game preparations coach's in the college game, but his end game play calling is not his strength.

Both teams played hard and thankfully no one was injured. We may met again in March when the chips are on the table.

Go CARDS!

He got the ball in his best players hands, and that's ideal. But, there clearly wasn't a drawn up play. It was give it to Lee and let him go. So, why NOT skip the timeout? Why let the defense get set? I was glad Rick called the time out. I was still nervous as hell. But, that beats the chaos of Lee bringing it up full speed with no set defense.

I thought Lee made the wrong play with the step back 3 with Poythress out on him. Why not take it in? You're either getting fouled or getting to the rim. And, it's even likely that the defense over compensates and you get an open big under the basket.
 
Your issue will continue to be fool's gold.

You have significant talent and a weak enough schedule to often rack up gaudy won-lost records and high NCAA seeds. In 3 of the 5 years that you've gone to the NCAA tourney under Pitino Lite, you've been a one-seed. That means you should make a Final Four unless you get upset in EACH of those years.

But that achievement gives you a false sense of accomplishment. If you're overseeded because of your weak schedule and talent advantage, a Final Four becomes the minimum expectation and a championship should also result with some regularity. The problem is you're playing legit teams in the Final Four. And if you get there based on fool's gold to some extent, you get disappointed more often than not.
Zipp, your attempt at logic is mind-boggling. You say UK is overseeded because of a weak schedule, but then you sat they "should" beat every team they play on the way to a Final Four as a 1 seed. But if they are not really a 1 seed quality team (as you say), then that means they are playing games on the way to the Final Four that they shouldn't necessarily win based on seeding alone. Moreover, two of UK's Final Fours under Cal were as an 8 seed and 4 seed, so they've had some really good upsets.
 
Zipp, your attempt at logic is mind-boggling. You say UK is overseeded because of a weak schedule, but then you sat they "should" beat every team they play on the way to a Final Four as a 1 seed. But if they are not really a 1 seed quality team (as you say), then that means they are playing games on the way to the Final Four that they shouldn't necessarily win based on seeding alone. Moreover, two of UK's Final Fours under Cal were as an 8 seed and 4 seed, so they've had some really good upsets.

One thing Cal has done is really avoid big upsets in the tourney. He hasn't lost to a team seeded more than one slot below his own team in over 10 years. At UK, the only upset came at the hands of WVU in his first year. Every other year UK has lost to an equal or better seeded team in the tourney. Every other elite coach has taken more than one major upset in that time frame.

So yes Zipp, I am with you in agreeing that the one title leaves a little to be desired. But you can't argue that there is a tournament coach who more consistently takes care of business in the tournament and doesn't get embarrassed like every other big time coach has in the last decade. As the poster above puts it, it can't cut both ways. Either Calipari is taking elite teams into the tourney and doing exactly what he is supposed to 90% of the time, or he is taking overseeded teams in and coaching his way to multiple upsets. Take your pick.
 
Zipp, your attempt at logic is mind-boggling. You say UK is overseeded because of a weak schedule, but then you sat they "should" beat every team they play on the way to a Final Four as a 1 seed. But if they are not really a 1 seed quality team (as you say), then that means they are playing games on the way to the Final Four that they shouldn't necessarily win based on seeding alone...
Understood, but getting a one-seed also means that legit one-seeds are put OUTSIDE of your bracket. And if you're a high one-seed, like the overall top seed, there's little chance the fifth or sixth best team gets into your bracket--at least when the committee was using the S-curve approach. And then you always have the possibility of legit one-seeds getting upset before they run into you.

IOW, being overseeded helps you to a point... The Final Four. Which, not coincidentally is where LPT struggles.

"Elite program", my a$$...
 
...Moreover, two of UK's Final Fours under Cal were as an 8 seed and 4 seed, so they've had some really good upsets.
For most teams, a Final Four is an accomplishment. If you're a legit four-seed, it certainly is. But it's not as a one-seed. You're simply meeting expectations based on your season's results, and again, you've had really good teams seeded WAY from you in the bracket.

Your 8-seed team was a dramatic UNDER-performer during the season that got hot at the end. LPT's not getting credit for lowering the bar that year, then exceeding it at the end. And IIRC, you lost to UConn in the Final, a team that U of L smoked three times during the regular season--which tells me how really good (or not) that LPT team was.

"Elite program", my a$$...
 
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