i reiterate. UofL is SuCkS superbowl.

[gocds]

Perhaps too many Card fans are concerned about "overall records". Sure I'd love to kick their asses in every game in every sport but that isn't going to happen. Generally speaking we go further in both women's basketball and baseball which is more important than the scheduled games. As far as football is concerned we have a much better and successful program but, and that's a big BUT, Xavier (no football program any longer) owns a 13-0 record against us. So should we make a large issue of series records? I don't really think so. But I do not want to end the series versus uselessakay.

GO CARDS - BEAT EVERYBODY!!! God Bless America!!!

 

[JohnKBA]

Perhaps too many Card fans are concerned about "overall records". Sure I'd love to kick their asses in every game in every sport but that isn't going to happen. Generally speaking we go further in both women's basketball and baseball which is more important than the scheduled games. As far as football is concerned we have a much better and successful program but, and that's a big BUT, Xavier (no football program any longer) owns a 13-0 record against us. So should we make a large issue of series records? I don't really think so. But I do not want to end the series versus uselessakay.

GO CARDS - BEAT EVERYBODY!!! God Bless America!!!

Good post gocds. I totally agree with you - lifetime achievement/records for the most part are meaningless. I wasn't alive for UK's first 4 titles and was only 3 years old when they won their 5th, so those mean very little to me. Both programs are currently "elite" in basketball and look to stay that way for the foreseeable future, that's what is important. I generally don't care about women's BBall and Baseball (no clue what UK Women's record is and don't even know when baseball starts,) but in football you guys surely have the better trajectory, both in heads up and overall success.

The series brings little to no national attention in either football or basketball. ESPN hypes UNC/Duke, OSU/Mich football, Auburn/Bama football, and a few other big time rivlaries that gain some national attention. I'm not sure the damage and vitriol that occurs between the 2 fanbases is worth it. We aren't conference rivals like the others mentioned here, so to me there is no reason that we should have to play every year. I think both sides would be better off without the annual game. U of L has NOTHING to prove and has a recent history to be just as proud of as UK does. We can easily replace each other on the schedule.

 

[JohnKBA]

Props to Kerry for starting this thread, it has led to a lot of good discussion and not much silly rhetoric. It's amazing to me how this forum differs from the scout forum. Even posters who are level headed here turn into maniacs on that page. It's like an otherwise good driver who moves to Ohio and immediately starts driving like a 90 year old grandmother.

 

[zipp]

Perhaps too many Card fans are concerned about "overall records"...

Unfortunately, those guys also aren't posting in the thread. Post-loss venters are here in a split second after a loss esp. against LPT. But they're nowhere to be found if a rational debate is attempted.

Despite the attention I focus on LPT, you won't see me predict many scores or gloat in outcomes of those games. But I also don't like seeing other U of L fans that obsessed with the outcomes esp. when the games don't have to played. You're one of the exceptions who can keep a loss in perspective.

"Elite program", my a$$...

 

[bloodguard13]

Great points Zipp. Thanks as usual for the civil back and forth sir.

I'm a UK fan FYI

Tic Toc Tic Toc........your secret is safe with us.

 

[earsky]

Tic Toc Tic Toc........your secret is safe with us

Why,because he's not an a$$?I have plenty of friends and family that are UK fans, who can keep it civil.It's all about the tone.

 

[JohnKBA]

Why,because he's not an a$$?I have plenty of friends and family that are UK fans, who can keep it civil.It's all about the tone.

Thanks ears. I like the discussion over here because it's the most civil of all the UK/U of L boards. Most posters here have been great. I know my place, it's a U of L board and I go out of my way to be respectful. That goes a long way.

 

[bloodguard13]

Thanks ears. I like the discussion over here because it's the most civil of all the UK/U of L boards. Most posters here have been great. I know my place, it's a U of L board and I go out of my way to be respectful. That goes a long way.

Cool story bro.

 

[JohnKBA]

Cool story bro.

Thanks man. I really enjoy getting props for my stories. You cheered up an otherwise dreary Tuesday for me sir.

 

[mrFootballFan]

Mike, i am a UK fan, i ain't trying to disguise it, just showing how easy it is to spin something to fit an agenda. Just like saying that 5 wins in a row is dominating, if that were true than you are saying that UK women are dominating UL women, when in fact the women could turn it around and win 5 in a row. Pretty much exactly what happened in football after UK won 4 in a row, UL turned around and won 5 in a row. You can call that dominating if it fits your agenda. Just like the Cards could win 8 of the next 9, but thats probably the least likely to happen. Jk

UofL won 8 out of the last 9

 

[mrFootballFan]

Mike, i am a UK fan, i ain't trying to disguise it, just showing how easy it is to spin something to fit an agenda. Just like saying that 5 wins in a row is dominating, if that were true than you are saying that UK women are dominating UL women, when in fact the women could turn it around and win 5 in a row. Pretty much exactly what happened in football after UK won 4 in a row, UL turned around and won 5 in a row. You can call that dominating if it fits your agenda. Just like the Cards could win 8 of the next 9, but thats probably the least likely to happen. Jk

UofL won 8 out of the last 9

 

[zipp]

FYI, this subject is getting a lot of airtime today on 93.9... First Valvano and not R&R. Got started by the Towles tweet about the U of L football game next year.

Consensus appears to be that slapd!cks see us as their Super Bowl, and that's not just mine or some of our delusions. If that's the case, it stokes the fire of my drop-em' POV. Take away what they want the most...

 

[JohnKBA]

FYI, this subject is getting a lot of airtime today on 93.9... First Valvano and not R&R. Got started by the Towles tweet about the U of L football game next year.

Consensus appears to be that slapd!cks see as their Super Bowl, and that's not just mine or some of our delusions. If that's the case, it stokes the fire of my drop-em' POV. Take away what they want the most...

Not sure what media outlet was able to do it, but I'm impressed that during a radio show someone was able to scientifically poll the UK administration/fanbase and come to a "consensus" that U of L is our Super Bowl. They should be doing presidential polling instead.

 

[zipp]

Sure it's all anecdotal. But after you see enough of anything, it's possible to start forming opinions and making generalizations.

Their point is how else do you explain LPT T-shirts at a cold, weeknight basketball game in Blacksburg, Virginia involving U of L? Perhaps you have an explanation that makes sense.

"Elite program", my a$$...

 

[JohnKBA]

Zipp I love ya buddy. I'll pick up the debate after my poker game.

 

[bloodguard13]

FYI, this subject is getting a lot of airtime today on 93.9... First Valvano and not R&R. Got started by the Towles tweet about the U of L football game next year.

Consensus appears to be that slapd!cks see us as their Super Bowl, and that's not just mine or some of our delusions. If that's the case, it stokes the fire of my drop-em' POV. Take away what they want the most...

ZIp, surely even you can understand that UK losing to UL would be 1000 times worse than ending the series.

 

[zipp]

Almost imponderable.

 

[nccardfan]

Okay zipp,

If we are their so called Super Bowl, then i think the best thing we can do is beat them not back out and drop them unless you don't think that is possible?

 

[zipp]

Okay zipp,

If we are their so called Super Bowl, then i think the best thing we can do is beat them not back out and drop them unless you don't think that is possible?

One thing that is NOT possible, practically speaking, is for us to have the upper hand on them in twenty different sports simultaneously so you guys worried about the on-the-field results are happy. As a stats guy, I'm confident in saying that. If you wait for that day to drop them, you'll be waiting forever.

Some people in this debate forget... The issue is not how we do when we play them, it's how obsessed they are about playing and beating us. And when you stop playing them, you deny them their obsession. That is a fact that can't be debated.

And since we don't need them on our schedule anymore while playing in the ACC, the way forward is clear. We just need the resolve to do it...

 

[nccardfan]

What also can't be debated is that in relation to basketball and football, is that our situation is almost exactly opposite so what do you suggest dropping football game and picking up Ohio State or how about Alabama or LSU? You know an 8-5 season in football can go to 7-6 easily. I don't care what we do in a series that's for statisticians... I just want the next game, now more than ever.

 

[OneEarWonder]

Primary Rival? Yes
Super Bowl? No

Both schools have bigger fish to fry and larger goals in mind than the school down the road.

 

[zipp]

Primary Rival? Yes
Super Bowl? No

Both schools have bigger fish to fry and larger goals in mind than the school down the road.

We're once again this year the best win on their schedule. Actually, I think we were 2nd best last year.

That's far more than a "rival".

 

[JohnKBA]

We're once again this year the best win on their schedule. Actually, I think we were 2nd best last year.

That's far more than a "rival".

This could/would work the other way too Zipp. Off the top of my head, UK would have been the best win on U of L's schedule in the 09/10, 11/12, and 14/15 seasons if the Cards had won any of those games.

 

[nccardfan]

Even the Patriots lose in the Super Bowl. Doesn't wash.

 

[bloodguard13]

We're once again this year the best win on their schedule. Actually, I think we were 2nd best last year.

That's far more than a "rival".

So in your mind Zip, that game is more important than winning a Sweet 16 game, Elite 8 game? I doubt anyone on this board or the Kentucky board would rather win that game than make it to the Final Four. You are trying way go hard on this subject. You need to just accept that you can't tell Card fans how to think and react to this rivalry, they are adults and the hours you have spent on this agenda hasn't changed one persons take on it.

 

[JohnKBA]

So in your mind Zip, that game is more important than winning a Sweet 16 game, Elite 8 game? I doubt anyone on this board or the Kentucky board would rather win that game than make it to the Final Four. You are trying way go hard on this subject. You need to just accept that you can't tell Card fans how to think and react to this rivalry, they are adults and the hours you have spent on this agenda hasn't changed one persons take on it.

I think Zipp means best win "on the schedule" implying best regular season win.

 

[zipp]

This could/would work the other way too Zipp. Off the top of my head, UK would have been the best win on U of L's schedule in the 09/10, 11/12, and 14/15 seasons if the Cards had won any of those games.

Based on NCAA results, the best team on U of L's regular season schedule in 2009-10 was WVU; LPT played no one and was overrated that year. In 2014-15, it was Duke. Both were conference games.

And that's the point... U of L's conference schedules in the BEast and ACC are/were strong enough that the team had to primarily focus on the conference games. The LPT game has been an unfortunate distraction, which doesn't sound in any way, shape, or form like a Super Bowl.

"Elite program", my a$$...

 

[zipp]

Even the Patriots lose in the Super Bowl. Doesn't wash.

That doesn't prove anything about the LPT game.

"Elite program", my a$$...

 

[zipp]

So in your mind Zip, that game is more important than winning a Sweet 16 game, Elite 8 game? I doubt anyone on this board or the Kentucky board would rather win that game than make it to the Final Four. You are trying way go hard on this subject. You need to just accept that you can't tell Card fans how to think and react to this rivalry, they are adults and the hours you have spent on this agenda hasn't changed one persons take on it.

A lot of U of L fans agree with this POV. They just don't need to argue in FAVOR if I'm doing it.

The point is that U of L athletics have far more important objectives across many sports than beating LPT in one sport. LPT cares about one sport primarily, has a pitiful schedule in that sport, and can focus most of its attention on the 2 or 3 good games on it. That's an advantage that U of L basketball doesn't have and will never have in the ACC and with its current athletic programs.

"Elite program", my a$$...

 

[zipp]

I think Zipp means best win "on the schedule" implying best regular season win.

Yes... Although when I speak to U of L fans on this same subject, I have to remind them how far down the list the LPT regular season game ranks in consideration of postgame competition in sports like baseball and women's basketball. Nowadays, it's barely in the Top Ten.

"Elite program", my a$$...

 

[nccardfan]

Zipp, how about starting a new thread, say a roll call and just see how many Card fans want to drop the basketball series with UK because we are their Super Bowl?

 

[zipp]

Zipp, how about starting a new thread, say a roll call and just see how many Card fans want to drop the basketball series with UK because we are their Super Bowl?

I don't recall saying that the decision should come down to a vote of message board fans on January 30, 2016.

I also don't believe I'm the only guy who can start a fan poll, if that matters to you.

"Elite program", my a$$...

 

[JohnKBA]

Based on NCAA results, the best team on U of L's regular season schedule in 2009-10 was WVU; LPT played no one and was overrated that year. In 2014-15, it was Duke. Both were conference games.

And that's the point... U of L's conference schedules in the BEast and ACC are/were strong enough that the team had to primarily focus on the conference games. The LPT game has been an unfortunate distraction, which doesn't sound in any way, shape, or form like a Super Bowl.

"Elite program", my a$$...

That's not what I said Zipp. I said had you beaten UK in any of those years it would have been the best win on your schedule. You didn't beat WVU in 2010 and you didn't beat Duke last year - hence, had you beaten UK in either of those years, the UK win would've been your best.

I'm still with you, there is no need for the teams to keep playing. I haven't watched a second of college baseball or women's basketball in my life, so I don't care about those games, but a December basketball game between the 2 can easily be replaced. UK can probably find an easier OOC game to play in football and U of L can certainly find a better team to play than UK. Beating us in football does nothing for you guys at all.

 

[zipp]

That's not what I said Zipp. I said had you beaten UK in any of those years it would have been the best win on your schedule. You didn't beat WVU in 2010 and you didn't beat Duke last year - hence, had you beaten UK in either of those years, the UK win would've been your best.

I'm still with you, there is no need for the teams to keep playing. I haven't watched a second of college baseball or women's basketball in my life, so I don't care about those games, but a December basketball game between the 2 can easily be replaced. UK can probably find an easier OOC game to play in football and U of L can certainly find a better team to play than UK. Beating us in football does nothing for you guys at all.

I didn't say it was your point...I guess I ignored it. MY point was that there were as good or better teams on the U of L schedules in those years to prepare for. And those were conference games that you play every year.

I'm not too sure how easy it will be for LPT to schedule another marquee win. The best teams LPT plays, it often loses. And good wins are what the NCAA looks at.

"Elite program", my a$$...

 

[JohnKBA]

I didn't say it was your point...I guess I ignored it. MY point was that there were as good or better teams on the U of L schedules in those years to prepare for. And those were conference games that you play every year.

I'm not too sure how easy it will be for LPT to schedule another marquee win. The best teams LPT plays, it often loses. And good wins are what the NCAA looks at.

"Elite program", my a$$...

I don't have time to research this right now but I'll assume you know what UK's record vs "the best teams we play" is since Calipari got to Lexington. The definition of "often" is open to interpretation, so you've made a completely anecdotal statement that you can probably defend regardless of what the actual data says. You're a smart guy as you rarely deal in fact and as such, are rarely put in a position to have your statements challenged. I'd like to debate you - we could do a "Who is the better coach, Calipari or Pitino" debate. You take Cal, I'll take RP. Would be a lively tilt.

 

[zipp]

You know me... I think I've got a pretty good handle on the LPT situation under Pitino Lite.

His up-to-date record overall is 206-41 (0.834). Not counting NCAA tourney games, his overall record against Top 20 RPI teams by the end of the season is 15-13 (0.536). That record against just teams that finish in the Top 10 is 6-9 (0.400). LPT obviously benefits each year by playing teams mostly outside the Top 20.

His record against U of L as a Top 20 team is 4-1 (0.800). Against U of L as a Top 10 team, it's 0-1 (0.000).

Clearly, since Lite's arrival, LPT does a lot better against U of L as a Top 20 team (0.800) than it does against other Top 20 teams (11-12, 0.478). That's the biggest downside to U of L disappearing from your schedule.

Not to mention, you've only had 11 wins over Top 20 teams in almost 7 years without U of L. That's about a win-and-a-half each year. And with six wins overall, your team averages less than one win per year against Top 10 teams. Pretty bad when you watch a team like U of L just up the road play an 18-game ACC schedule every year.

In all likelihood, when you replace U of L with another Top 20 team, you'll lose more games. No Super Bowl factor working in your favor. Since the LPT strategy of playing mostly lightweights and creampuffs appears to be working pretty well, don't be so sure that U of L would be replaced by another good home-and-home series.

"Elite program", my a$$...

 

[JohnKBA]

You know me... I think I've got a pretty good handle on the LPT situation under Pitino Lite.

His up-to-date record overall is 206-41 (0.834). Not counting NCAA tourney games, his overall record against Top 20 RPI teams by the end of the season is 15-13 (0.536). That record against just teams that finish in the Top 10 is 6-9 (0.400). LPT benefits greatly each year by playing a subpar schedule.

His record against U of L as a Top 20 team is 4-1 (0.800). Against U of L as a Top 10 team, it's 0-1 (0.000).

Clearly, since Lite's arrival, LPT does a lot better against U of L as a Top 20 team (0.800) than it does against other Top 20 teams (11-12, 0.478). That's the biggest downside to U of L disappearing from your schedule.

Not to mention, you've only had 11 wins over Top 20 teams in almost 7 years without U of L. That's about a win-and-a-half each year. And with six wins overall, your team averages less than one win per year against Top 10 teams. Pretty bad when you watch a team like U of L just up the road play an 18-game ACC schedule every year.

In all likelihood, when you replace U of L with another Top 20 team, you'll lose more games. No Super Bowl factor working in your favor.

"Elite program", my a$$...

You lost me there at the bolded statement, that's all that matters to me. The 2011 and 2014 teams couldn't get out of their own way in the regular season, then beat a slew of good teams in the tourney. I'll take 9 regular season losses for a trip to the final four or national title game every year. The 2012 team played 4 games against final four teams that year and won them all. A common theme among fans here is that the UK game is meaningless because CRP is coaching the team for March, and Calipari teams don't get any better as the season wears on, yet UK has gone farther in March every year since 2009 except for 2013, beating U of L twice in the tourney along the way.

At the end of the day, both schools have fantastic programs and both fanbases should be proud of where we stand in the landscape. I'm no fool - I can admit that Jurich has built a far superior athletic program than Brainfart has. I'm not a fan of his, he has basically whiffed on every decision he has made, no clue why he is still employed. I guess you could argue Mitchell was a decent hire, but like I said earlier I haven't watched a second of women's basketball ever so I'm really not sure. Jurich has really only made one bad move, I won't mention his name because I think that's a rule here or something

Good back and forth here zipp, thanks for the civility.

 

[zipp]

You're lost because you forgot the debate...

The thread is about the effect of U of L on LPT, i.e., Super Bowl, and vice versa, and has talked extensively about the scheduling of annual "rivalry" games. It's not about how good LPT is generally or how it finishes the season (although I do get my barbs into LPT and its schedule and understand how it can distract!)

You don't schedule NCAA tournament games, so they're not included in the data. Arguably, I shouldn't have included SEC postseason games. But had I excluded those, you'd have a history of even fewer regular season teams in the Top 20 on your schedule... A poor schedule on average as I report it would get even poorer.

And schedule is the issue. A poor schedule means you need Top 20 teams on it and the win U of L disproportionately provides. Because other U of L fans don't understand that doesn't mean it's not true. And it's why I advocate putting an end to it.

"Elite program", my a$$...

 

[JohnKBA]

You're lost because you forgot the debate...

The thread is about the effect of U of L on LPT, i.e., Super Bowl, and vice versa, and has talked extensively about the scheduling of annual "rivalry" games. It's not about how good LPT is generally or how it finishes the season (although I do get my barbs into LPT and its schedule and understand how it can distract!)

You don't schedule NCAA tournament games, so they're not included in the data. Arguably, I shouldn't have included SEC postseason games. But had I excluded those, you'd have a history of even fewer regular season teams in the Top 20 on your schedule... A poor schedule on average as I report it would get even poorer.

And schedule is the issue. A poor schedule means you need Top 20 teams on it and the win U of L disproportionately provides. Because other U of L fans don't understand that doesn't mean it's not true. And it's why I advocate putting an end to it.

"Elite program", my a$$...

I'd argue that it doesn't matter. We play in 2 "classics" in the OOC with 7 other good to great programs, have a preseason tourney every 3 years, Big 12/SEC.....UK has won titles when the SEC has been great and when the SEC has been hot garbage.

We fall on the same side of the argument here at the end of the day. Neither team needs the other.

 

[zipp]

I'd argue that it doesn't matter. We play in 2 "classics" in the OOC with 7 other good to great programs, have a preseason tourney every 3 years, Big 12/SEC.....UK has won titles when the SEC has been great and when the SEC has been hot garbage.

We fall on the same side of the argument here at the end of the day. Neither team needs the other.

LPT unfairly gets a pass on its schedule IMO. No way a team should get an overall one-seed like last year's team playing only one RPI Top 20 team by the end of the regular season. I understand that you think you can't help it when your conference is weak. Or when teams scheduled years in advance don't turn out quite as good as expected. IMO you still have control over that as long as schools like Grand Canyon, Buffalo, Montana St., UT-Arlington, EKU, and Columbia all show up on it like last year. Or when you could have bolted the SEC a long time ago for a better basketball conference, the sport your school and fanbase is mostly interested in.

No, you need U of L on that godawful schedule because it ranks well above those teams and because it's usually a win. And that's the exact reason I don't think we should be.

"Elite program", my a$$...