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ESPN North Carolina allegations amended

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The NCAA has issued yet another amended notice of allegations stemming from the academic scandal at the University of North Carolina, and the new charge could lead to serious consequences for the men's basketball team.

The NCAA's new allegations include an extra-benefit charge involving men's basketball and cover a period from the 2002-03 season through the 2010-11 season. The Tar Heels won national championships in 2005 and '09. If the NCAA, through its committee on infractions, concludes that some of the players on that team received extra benefits, they could be deemed ineligible, which could lead to serious charges, including potentially vacating those titles.

The NCAA argues that the sham courses constitute extra benefits because the university used its relationship with two African-American studies professors to "obtain and/or provide special arrangements to student-athletes in violation of extra-benefit legislation." The new notice additionally claims that "many at-risk student athletes, particularly in the sports of football and men's basketball, used these courses for ensuring their continuing NCAA eligibility."

UNC athletic director Bubba Cunningham, however, said on a conference call that he believes that the NCAA is operating outside of its own bylaws by both issuing and amending this third notice.

"You can't chase things because you have an opinion,'' Cunningham said. "You have to follow the bylaws. That's the standard we are held to and we expect to live by those as well. We've seen recently the NCAA has chased after some other schools and went outside their own process and that hasn't worked out very well.''

Cunningham is charging that when the university met with the NCAA in October for a jurisdictional meeting, committee on infractions chair and SEC commissioner Greg Sankey refused to admit two documents into the record that explained why the second notice of allegations -- which removed the impermissible benefits allegations, including men's basketball -- was fair and aligned properly with NCAA bylaws.

Then, according to Cunningham, Sankey argued that the absence of those documents gave the enforcement staff reason to revisit and amend the notice of allegations once more.

"That means the university was deprived an opportunity to submit evidence, and then they used that very lack of evidence against us,'' Cunningham said.

The jurisdictional hearing is uncommon, if not entirely unprecedented. North Carolina asked for the hearing to argue that the NCAA, which has long stayed out of the business of determining the worth of academic classwork, did not have the authority to punish a school based on the academic merits of its coursework.

Cunningham, however, said he did not think that meant the committee on infractions could use that hearing to revisit the merits of the case.

"We were instructed that it was just to hear the procedural claims of the case,'' he said. "I think we've slipped beyond the jurisdictional issues.''

The NCAA did not respond immediately for requests to comment.

In a statement, Division I Committee on Infractions chairman Greg Sankey said: "The Committee on Infractions and the hearing panel that has been randomly assigned to consider the University of North Carolina matter have been diligent to meet NCAA rule expectations throughout this process. The Committee will continue to provide a fair basis for a hearing to the university and individuals involved, and has afforded ample and fair opportunity for involved parties to provide context at a number of stages. Consistent with the third NOA issued independently by the NCAA enforcement staff on Dec.13, 2016, the university now has a new deadline to submit material for the hearing panel's consideration."

Cunningham did not say what action the university will take going forward, insisting rather that North Carolina will continue to follow the process through to its end. That process, of course, now will be extended even further. The NCAA issued its first notice of allegations in May 2015. This third edition means the university has 90 days to respond, with a hearing date months away at best.

"I don't know what our remedy or recourse is, but we will explore every one of them,'' Cunningham said. "But we will follow this process to the very end. We just want to make sure that everyone stays in their jurisdictional lane.''
 
"You can't chase things because you have an opinion,'' Cunningham said. "You have to follow the bylaws. That's the standard we are held to and we expect to live by those as well. We've seen recently the NCAA has chased after some other schools and went outside their own process and that hasn't worked out very well.''

Translation: NCAA screwed the pooch against Miami so we're going to fight them tooth and nail on everything and make it look like they screwed the pooch on us too.
 
Actually the Committee on Infractions told the Committee that actually sets the punishments, after they agreed to the Amended Notice of Allegations, that the COI wasn't going to allow it and "reinstated" all the original charges on the first NOA.

So...one hand of the NCAA tells the other hand that "no I want blood so you must make them bleed". Going to be hard to do since the group that agreed to the ANOA put it in writing that UNC had proven it's points.

And why would anyone at the NCAA want an ACC school to bleed? COI Chair is named Sankey...who is the Commish of the SEC in his day job. Which should make him an expert in academic integrity right....

UNC's AD has already called it BS and named names. This is headed to court. One thing that will look great in rtestimony....same SEC Commish who originally said one report that didn't follow the NCAA bylaws couldn't be used is now saying UNC was in violation for not citing it's findings...huh?

Truth is the NCAA knows they screwed the pooch with us, Miami and Penn State but are too dishonest to admit things.
 
The NCAA's gonna keep at this because they can't stand the thought of so much going on for so long that affected so many student-athletes. The problem is they don't have jurisdiction because it didn't JUST affect student-athletes. I hope that UNC doesn't cave.

Anyone or any school from the SEC weighing in on this is a joke. And slappies need to be careful what they wish for. Something adverse happening to the Heels this season undermines their only quality win, maybe for the entire season.

"Elite program", my a$$...
 
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The NCAA's gonna keep at this because they can't stand the thought of so much going on for so long that affected so many student-athletes.

One way to look at it, there's a lot of invalid UNC degrees out there.
 
Tell me the names of any UNC grads who had their degrees invalidated, players or not. Give me the name of ANY student or player who had a course invalidated because it was an AFAM course. And NO UNC players were dismissed for taking any AFAM courses, period.

ONE player was dismissed AFTER it was found he was guilty of plagiarizing a paper he was required to turn in for a grade...a 25 page paper. I assume UNC is bad for doing so in your opinion?

If your goal is to prove you're typing from a position of ignorance, you're doing a fine job.
 
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Tell me the names of any UNC grads who had their degrees invalidated, players or not. Give me the name of ANY student or player who had a course invalidated because it was an AFAM course. And NO UNC players were dismissed for taking any AFAM courses, period.

ONE player was dismissed AFTER it was found he was guilty of plagiarizing a paper he was required to turn in for a grade...a 25 page paper. I assume UNC is bad for doing so in your opinion?

If your goal is to prove you're typing from a position of ignorance, you're doing a fine job.

You should take down your defensiveness a couple notches. I was talking about non-athletes who get kicked out of school for cheating. --Seems they could get a good lawyer and do some possible damage.
 
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UNC scandal the worst in college basketball history. What we're accused of shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath.
 
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I haven't heard that UNC's accreditation is under review like ours is.

Glass houses, whether slappies realize it or not...
 
UNC will get no quarter here.

That program deserves the death penalty. It’s one thing to break the NCAA’s unfair and sanctimonious rules, it’s a whole different thing to take advantage of and cheat the student athletes out of the only thing they are supposedly getting for making the schools millions upon millions of dollars. Everybody can think or say whatever they like about the matter, obviously. But I’m going to call a spade a spade, whether it’s UNC or UK.
 
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It's unclear what they deserve. What we do know is the accusations were first made public roughly 5 years ago.

It's getting to the point where many of the investigators are susceptible to dying from natural causes.

Here is my on the outside looking in thought. The NCAA has no idea how to handle this.
 
UNC will get no quarter here.

That program deserves the death penalty. It’s one thing to break the NCAA’s unfair and sanctimonious rules, it’s a whole different thing to take advantage of and cheat the student athletes out of the only thing they are supposedly getting for making the schools millions upon millions of dollars. Everybody can think or say whatever they like about the matter, obviously. But I’m going to call a spade a spade, whether it’s UNC or UK.
How do you know something similar isn't going on at U of L? Did you anticipate strippers in the dorms??
 
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It's unclear what they deserve. What we do know is the accusations were first made public roughly 5 years ago.

It's getting to the point where many of the investigators are susceptible to dying from natural causes.

Here is my on the outside looking in thought. The NCAA has no idea how to handle this.
It's pretty clear what the university wants. They want it all to go away. They want enough separation that the 2005 banner doesn't come down.
 
Do you understand what "living in a glass house" means??

I know what it means, Zipp. And I understand where you wanted to go with it. But I don’t live in a glass house. Hence the question….how is that relevant to my disdain for what happened at UNC? I enjoy sports, and UL basketball and football particularly. But I don’t live vicariously through UL’s sports teams. And I don’t measure my self-worth by whether UL wins or loses a game (or, in the case of some people, whether the team down the road wins or loses). So, if you mean that the UL sports program lives in a glass house and therefore I should be careful with my rocks (the truth), I would again say “how is that relevant?” Like the lesson taught by the fable “The Three Little Pigs”, if my university’s house needs to be built of stronger ethical and moral stuff, then let’s get to rebuilding.
 
I know what it means, Zipp. And I understand where you wanted to go with it. But I don’t live in a glass house...
Surely to God you don't want me to list the issues we have dealt with in the last few years. Not only do you live in a glass house, but at the moment, the glass is about an 1/8-inch thick.

I'm not overly sensitive to that, but them's the facts...
 
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Correct me if I'm wrong...Our situation seems political. Theirs was to put W's in the win column.
I'm not rationalizing or justifying our situation, I'm just recognizing it.

IMHO, fans of UNC, LPT, Louisville, and probably a few others need to stay with other subjects on which they have more credibility...
 
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Surely to God you don't want me to list the issues we have dealt with in the last few years. Not only do you live in a glass house, but at the moment, the glass is about an 1/8-inch thick.

I'm not overly sensitive to that, but them's the facts...

I don’t want you to do anything, zipp. Your posts are generally not very enlightening and frequently not even topically coherent. Instead, most are agenda driven by an obsession with all things UK. I think most here have recognized that for some time. But as the kids today say: You do you zipp. Whatever works for you is fine, just don’t try to convince me to buy into your pseudo-intellectual act (although you do seem to have the pseudo part down cold).
 
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I don’t want you to do anything, zipp. Your posts are generally not very enlightening and frequently not even topically coherent. Instead, most are agenda driven by an obsession with all things UK. I think most here have recognized that for some time. But as the kids today say: You do you zipp. Whatever works for you is fine, just don’t try to convince me to buy into your pseudo-intellectual act (although you do seem to have the pseudo part down cold).
There's nothing even halfway "intellectual" about this issue... It's too simple. You're sitting on a perch criticizing the goings-on at UNC. Ever consider how incredibly easy it would be for a UNC grad/fan to turn that around and criticize YOUR program at the moment?

Now, you may SAY you understand the significance of living in a glass house...

Humorous as well that a slapd!ck would be a voyeur to this discussion.

"Elite program", my a$$...
 
I’m not judging them at all. I’m just curious as to if/when a final ruling will be found so we can see what was proven and what wasn’t.
 
I’m not judging them at all. I’m just curious as to if/when a final ruling will be found so we can see what was proven and what wasn’t.
I have no problem with anyone seeking info.

larder said that UNC deserves the death penalty. With the recent ish we have been in the press for, presumably, the death penalty is in the discussion for us as well.

:rolleyes:
 
I have no problem with anyone seeking info.

larder said that UNC deserves the death penalty. With the recent ish we have been in the press for, presumably, the death penalty is in the discussion for us as well.

:rolleyes:

You think message board banter is going to stop it? Curious as to why would you think our outcome is tied to UNC? ESPN has treated our situations completely different from the start.
 
There's nothing even halfway "intellectual" about this issue... It's too simple. You're sitting on a perch criticizing the goings-on at UNC. Ever consider how incredibly easy it would be for a UNC grad/fan to turn that around and criticize YOUR program at the moment?

Now, you may SAY you understand the significance of living in a glass house...

Humorous as well that a slapd!ck would be a voyeur to this discussion.

"Elite program", my a$$...

Look, I don’t know what else I could say to help you understand. You’re either a little slow or intentionally deflecting. I’m going to give you credit and assume the latter. Nevertheless, your fear of UL being criticized or ridiculed by fans of other college sports programs is again reflective of you measuring your own self-worth by, and living vicariously through, a sports team. I mean really, could there be anything less concerning and more irrelevant than the opinions of opposing message board sports fans.

By your rationale, UL fans should play the part of the frat boy at a rogue fraternity. Ignore and not speak out about atrocities lest we be castigated by, and lose our place in, the social network (even if it happens to be a sick, disgusting, morally bankrupt social network).

Personally, I have no need for, or interest in, pandering to UNC fans for acceptance – and neither should you. If the UL basketball program has done something wrong that should be punished – especially if it reflects negatively on the integrity of the University (which is what is most important, not the sports program) – then let the appropriate punishment be administered and let’s move on. You’ll be ok, I promise.
 
I have no problem with anyone seeking info.

larder said that UNC deserves the death penalty. With the recent ish we have been in the press for, presumably, the death penalty is in the discussion for us as well.

:rolleyes:

There is no reasonable comparison between the scope and severity of the two situations. What UNC’s sports department did (and we can talk about that if you don’t understand what transpired) has been repeatedly described by independent observers as the worst academic fraud scandal in the history of college athletics.

UL’s scandal is an extra-benefit case (a salacious one, no doubt – but still just an extra-benefit case). The UNC scandal involves massive fraud that goes to the very core and shakes the integrity of the entire college athletic system (which we can also discuss if you don’t understand why).
 
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...UL’s scandal is an extra-benefit case (a salacious one, no doubt – but still just an extra-benefit case). The UNC scandal involves massive fraud that goes to the very core and shakes the integrity of the entire college athletic system (which we can also discuss if you don’t understand why).
Wakey-leaks
Gunshot wounds
President's resignation/financial misconduct
Strippers in the dorm
etc.

It's not one thing. And it's not stuff that bothers me on its own merits. It's stuff that bothers me when U of L fans mouth off about other schools and programs...
 
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I don't see how two UofL players getting shot has anthing to do with the program/university itself. Was it every reported who fired the gun?
Unfortunately, it doesn't matter. It's in the news nonetheless, and it's just more ammunition for the naysayers...
 
I don't see how two UofL players getting shot has anthing to do with the program/university itself. Was it every reported who fired the gun?

Didn't keep them from mentioning it before the game. Do they mention before every UNC game how they have an an ongoing investigation? Zipp seems OK with it though.
 
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