Denny Crum versus Rick Pitino?

[gocards1987]

Bottom line is Crum won 2 titles and went to 6 Final Fours. Pitino was here more than half the time Denny was and we have one Final Four to show for it. You can do the math. Yes Denny deserved to be fired and yes I wanted Pitino to be hired more than anyone and yes I am very sorry it happened.

Never thought I would see an actual UofL fan deny the title and final 4 happened despite actually living through it. Oh well.

Congrats Crum was great. At the end of his career he wasn't and had we not gotten rid of him we would be irrelevant now so arguing about whether a title or not counts would not matter anyhow.

 

[ShortCreek]

Crum was super disappointing as his coaching career came to a close. IMO, he mailed it in, and the results on the court confirmed that. Then he held Jurich hostage until he squeezed a sweetheart settlement out of him. I believe it was approximately $800 K per year for about 8-10 years.

It must be something in the water with our head coaches, Rick’s hiring mistakes are well documented but let’s not forget Denny’s bad hires as well. How can one forget Larry Gay, what a debacle!

 

[BooneCo_Card]

Crum was super disappointing as his coaching career came to a close. IMO, he mailed it in, and the results on the court confirmed that. Then he held Jurich hostage until he squeezed a sweetheart settlement out of him. I believe it was approximately $800 K per year for about 8-10 years.

It must be something in the water with our head coaches, Rick’s hiring mistakes are well documented but let’s not forget Denny’s bad hires as well. How can one forget Larry Gay, what a debacle!

The combo of Larry Gay and Scooter as lead recruiters was devastating. Larry had been a player and very good recruiter for Hugh Durham's probation troubled enterprises and Scooter was just getting started in the business. The word we got in Cincy was that all you had to do to beat Louisville on a recruit was get to the gym b4 noon.
Denny picked Gay over former UC coach Tony Yates for assistant and lead recruiter. Tony wasn't a very good coach, but a great recruiter.

 

[ShortCreek]

He also hired, cough, Jerry Eaves toward the decline of his career. That also didn’t go particularly well either.

 

[BooneCo_Card]

He also hired, cough, Jerry Eaves toward the decline of his career. That also didn’t particularly well either.

How could I forget that one! Thanks for the painful reminder lol

 

[zipp]

Never thought I would see an actual UofL fan deny the title and final 4 happened despite actually living through it...

Shows you much hate there is for The Master in this space among a few people. It runs deep. And it only makes me embrace our history more.

Behold...

 

[wilkie01]

We got Pitino after he was already wealthy and successful and not really hungry. As bad as his recruiting was in comparison to all the recruiting trips he took to places like New York and south Florida, he had to be spending most of his time chasing tail. Dude, finally got a little serious after Sypher but then was negligent and destroyed the program. Great hire that turned into a train wreck.

I always have the restaurant table sanitizer before I will eat off it. if Pitino dined there.

 

[CommodoreCard]

I always have the restaurant table sanitizer before I will eat off it. if Pitino dined there.

I have to admit, that is one hilarious picture. A little scary as well. Out of all the tail Ricky P could have nailed in Louisville, he picked that heap of crazy. I guess he nailed all the good stuff in town when he coached at Ky.

 

[shutzhund]

Just simply a stupid post. Pitino had no dirty deeds that cost the program or Jurich. If being stabbed in the back by a assistant coach/former player is a dirty deed, then all of us are guilty of dirty deeds.

If you still believe Pitino knew what McGee was doing or agreed to have money given to Bowen you are simply a Pitino hater. Maybe he needed to go to get past the negative press but to claim that he knowingly put the program and his legacy in jeopardy for recruits is ludacris. It never happened!

Each day more evidence points that the FBI probe shows others used Pitino's name to redirect the wrongdoing and make the case notorious with a big name coach.

Amazing.

 

[gocds]

Peck should always be honored but comparing him to Crum & Pitino is apples and oranges. If I’m not mistaken, Peck’s teams either scrimmaged or actually played games against Valley High School. A lot has changed in the level of competition since Peck coached.

I don’t think that’s accurate. They may have scrimmaged Valley HS as Peck was the coach there when he took the UofL job. But that was not an “official” game.

GO CARDS - BEAT EVERYBODY!!! God Bless America!!!

 

[wilkie01]

Pitino was our only really scumbag coach.

 

[ShortCreek]

I don’t think that’s accurate. They may have scrimmaged Valley HS as Peck was the coach there when he took the UofL job. But that was not an “official” game.

GO CARDS - BEAT EVERYBODY!!! God Bless America!!!

I’ll look into it. I have access to some very old Valley High School yearbooks. I’ll get back to you and try to verify it one way or another.

 

[MikeMcCammon]

Never thought I would see an actual UofL fan deny the title and final 4 happened despite actually living through it. Oh well.

Congrats Crum was great. At the end of his career he wasn't and had we not gotten rid of him we would be irrelevant now so arguing about whether a title or not counts would not matter anyhow.

Our title was taken away. I don't think it was fair based on the crime but the reality is it doesn't count now. If we don't get credit for it as a school and program, I sure as hell won't give Pitino credit for it.

 

[gocards1987]

Our title was taken away. I don't think it was fair based on the crime but the reality is it doesn't count now. If we don't get credit for it as a school and program, I sure as hell won't give Pitino credit for it.

But it happened. Ask anyone other than a UK fan they will say Louisville won the 2013 title. Trying to play make believe to win an argument makes no sense. There has never been any doubt that Crum was great at one point but attempting to argue that that is downfall was still better than Pitino is disingenuous considering you are talking to people who were there for the games you are pretending didn't happen. Pitino won the games. He is gone now so trying to add more crap to his legacy makes no sense.

 

[MikeMcCammon]

But it happened. Ask anyone other than a UK fan they will say Louisville won the 2013 title. Trying to play make believe to win an argument makes no sense. There has never been any doubt that Crum was great at one point but attempting to argue that that is downfall was still better than Pitino is disingenuous considering you are talking to people who were there for the games you are pretending didn't happen. Pitino won the games. He is gone now so trying to add more crap to his legacy makes no sense.

If our championship no longer counts then it no longer counts. You want to pretend they didn't take it away, feel free.

 

[gocards1987]

If our championship no longer counts then it no longer counts. You want to pretend they didn't take it away, feel free.

Actually its pretend to say it doesn't count unless you are going to do a MIB mind wipe on all of us. I'm not going to crap on our legacy and all the players that gave their all to win the title.

 

[zipp]

87, you're 100% correct. It's guys like MM who are living in an alternate reality. The NCAA doesn't define your reality nor mine...

 

[American Male]

If our championship no longer counts then it no longer counts. You want to pretend they didn't take it away, feel free.

Then I REFUSE to acknowledge the 10 Titles, and games UCLA won from 1964-1975...Several Players...Bill Walton for one has admitted to Sam Gilbert paying players to attend UCLA...And as far as I know, there are ZERO Statutes Of Limitations preventing the NCAA from retroactively stripping them of those titles!!!

The same goes for Duke, Kansas, Kentucky and North Carolina...All had players that were paid or had academic issues that the NCAA decided to look the other way so as NOT to ruffle any feathers of the so called Blue Blood Programs...Yet programs like Memphis and Syracuse got hammered for the VERY SAME BS that those programs got away with!!!

The NCAA can keep their banner and trophy...The University can replace them with their own designed banner and trophy...And EVERYONE that watched the 2013 Championship Game SAW Louisville WIN the game...No SKANKY WHORE or ROGUE Coach gave the players any form of HGH or Steroids to enhance the GOD Given Talents and Abilities those players had...We ALL have Memories, and the players ALL have RINGS the NCAA CAN'T take away...So FU@# Them!!!

 

[MikeMcCammon]

Then I REFUSE to acknowledge the 10 Titles, and games UCLA won from 1964-1975...Several Players...Bill Walton for one has admitted to Sam Gilbert paying players to attend UCLA...

Actually not one player has ever said he was paid by Sam Gilbert to attend UCLA. Way to besmirch the greatest coach of all time.

 

[MikeMcCammon]

Actually its pretend to say it doesn't count unless you are going to do a MIB mind wipe on all of us. I'm not going to crap on our legacy and all the players that gave their all to win the title.

Crapping on our legacy was already done by Pitino and his assistants who did this to us.

 

[CommodoreCard]

Only Ky fans say UCLA paid their players and John Wooden was a slimeball. Their jealousy of UCLA being in front of them in titles is something those people just can't stand. It irks them with every fiber of their being. Plus, recently UCLA has owned them, even won in coRuppt.

 

[MikeMcCammon]

Only Ky fans say UCLA paid their players and John Wooden was a slimeball. Their jealousy of UCLA being in front of them in titles is something those people just can't stand. It irks them with every fiber of their being. Plus, recently UCLA has owned them, even won in coRuppt.

We owe a massive debt to Coach Wooden, one for giving us Denny Crum and two for winning more titles than Kentucky.

 

[BPGhost]

We got Pitino after he was already wealthy and successful and not really hungry. As bad as his recruiting was in comparison to all the recruiting trips he took to places like New York and south Florida, he had to be spending most of his time chasing tail. Dude, finally got a little serious after Sypher but then was negligent and destroyed the program. Great hire that turned into a train wreck.

Pitino wasn't hungry? That's revisionist history and completely ridiculous - and this comes from someone who NEVER liked him. He was successful at Providence for creating offenses that capitalized on the 3 point shot offenses and parlayed that into the Knicks job. When he went to u ah k it was the perfect storm of a top 2 program with the hottest coach in the business - the fact that he was brash and quotable just added to it.

The fact is - he was never going to be able to replicate the success at UofL that he did for the yuts. It was what three years later (an eternity as far as recruits go), he was coming off of failure with the Celtics and like it or not, UofL has not ever been viewed in the same way by recruits as the u ah k's, carolina's and duke's of the college basketball world. Add to that, everyone had ripped a page out of his book on the 3 point offense and not being able to play your regular season in a joke of a conference like the sec year in and year out - and you start to understand why he "under performed" here.

He was definitely overpaid but people that say he under performed - don't understand big time basketball.

 

[MikeMcCammon]

Pitino wasn't hungry? That's revisionist history and completely ridiculous - and this comes from someone who NEVER liked him. He was successful at Providence for creating offenses that capitalized on the 3 point shot offenses and parlayed that into the Knicks job. When he went to u ah k it was the perfect storm of a top 2 program with the hottest coach in the business - the fact that he was brash and quotable just added to it.

The fact is - he was never going to be able to replicate the success at UofL that he did for the yuts. It was what three years later (an eternity as far as recruits go), he was coming off of failure with the Celtics and like it or not, UofL has not ever been viewed in the same way by recruits as the u ah k's, carolina's and duke's of the college basketball world. Add to that, everyone had ripped a page out of his book on the 3 point offense and not being able to play your regular season in a joke of a conference like the sec year in and year out - and you start to understand why he "under performed" here.

He was definitely overpaid but people that say he under performed - don't understand big time basketball.

No rational person can look at what he did at UK and compare that to how he operated here and claim he was as driven or motivated. His career was made and he was extremely wealthy when he arrived here and he showed it. He made us a lot of money but he was not the coach we expected nor did he perform all that well. His hiring of other coaches reflected that. He seemed more interested in helping out cronies than getting top talent. I think Mack will do more here than Pitino did.

 

[BPGhost]

No rational person can look at what he did at UK and compare that to how he operated here and claim he was as driven or motivated. His career was made and he was extremely wealthy when he arrived here and he showed it. He made us a lot of money but he was not the coach we expected nor did he perform all that well. His hiring of other coaches reflected that. He seemed more interested in helping out cronies than getting top talent. I think Mack will do more here than Pitino did.

Actually, no rational person would try to compare the two situations from the cheap seats - without firsthand knowledge of the principals or, their motivations. You are taking the results of two completely different situations and combining them with your subjective opinion to try and explain why it occurred the way it did.

I think that we can all objectively agree that pitino did not achieve the same success at UofL that he did at u ah k. The rest of your opinion - from a rational viewpoint - is quite murky.

 

[zipp]

...He seemed more interested in helping out cronies than getting top talent...

Utterly clueless. The OPPOSITE ended up being his downfall...

 

[American Male]

Actually not one player has ever said he was paid by Sam Gilbert to attend UCLA. Way to besmirch the greatest coach of all time.

Actually, Bill Walton has said numerous times that Sam Gilbert was A Sugar Daddy to the UCLA Players and Program!!!

John Wooden was a coach who kept his distance from Sam...That way he had Plausible Deniability...Kind of like Pitino...You know...He too Didn't Know what was going on!!!

 

[gocds]

Actually, Bill Walton has said numerous times that Sam Gilbert was A Sugar Daddy to the UCLA Players and Program!!!

John Wooden was a coach who kept his distance from Sam...That way he had Plausible Deniability...Kind of like Pitino...You know...He too Didn't Know what was going on!!!

Unfortunately a lot of schools have this attitude toward wealthy supporters. How many of you remember the infamous $50/$100 handshakes at uahkay? Supposedly that went on for years and may be still be going on. Who knows?

GO CARDS - BEAT EVERYBODY!!! God Bless America!!!

 

[CardVille]

Denny was a master at the Xs and Os, but not much of a recruiter. RP was good at Xs and Os and a great recruiter. Denny had 2 titles and RP had 1.

Bottom line, both were great coaches and were fun to watch in their prime, both had disappointing endings.

 

[Cue Card]

Denny was a master at the Xs and Os, but not much of a recruiter. RP was good at Xs and Os and a great recruiter. Denny had 2 titles and RP had 1.

Bottom line, both were great coaches and were fun to watch in their prime, both had disappointing endings.

Denny Crum was a good recruiter, but he did delegate that responsibility out to Wade Houston before he bolted to Tennessee. He only got hands on if he had to which wasn't too often. Wade Houston was a great recruiter. Denny Crum was calm under pressure and was outstanding at in game adjustments. Cool Hand Luke was his nickname because he rarely (if ever) got rattled. Denny was a teacher of the game.

Rick Pitino coached more on emotion and had a flair for the dramatic. He was stubborn to a fault regarding in game adjustments. It was all about preparation for him and he didn't like to waiver from what he prepared for. He was a very good recruiter. I personally wouldn't say he was a great recruiter, but he did have a way of finding a player who many had overlooked and made them really good players over a few years. Rick is also a teacher of the game.

 

[MikeMcCammon]

Utterly clueless. The OPPOSITE ended up being his downfall...

The statement is true and that is a fact. We put up with him hiring his old UK players and his other coaching buddies. That has nothing to do with Pitino failing to oversee people like McGee which led to our downfall.

 

[wilkie01]

Denny Crum was a good recruiter, but he did delegate that responsibility out to Wade Houston before he bolted to Tennessee. He only got hands on if he had to which wasn't too often. Wade Houston was a great recruiter. Denny Crum was calm under pressure and was outstanding at in game adjustments. Cool Hand Luke was his nickname because he rarely (if ever) got rattled. Denny was a teacher of the game.

Rick Pitino coached more on emotion and had a flair for the dramatic. He was stubborn to a fault regarding in game adjustments. It was all about preparation for him and he didn't like to waiver from what he prepared for. He was a very good recruiter. I personally wouldn't say he was a great recruiter, but he did have a way of finding a player who many had overlooked and made them really good players over a few years. Rick is also a teacher of the game.

I agree to most of this. However, Rick's ego and failure to instill oversight, morality, honor and integrity into the program did him in.

 

[MikeMcCammon]

Denny was a master at the Xs and Os, but not much of a recruiter. RP was good at Xs and Os and a great recruiter. Denny had 2 titles and RP had 1.

Bottom line, both were great coaches and were fun to watch in their prime, both had disappointing endings.

I think Denny recruited pretty well before Wade Houston. Two Final Fours and many great players in 4 seasons. I actually thought Pitino was a mediocre recruiter.

 

[zipp]

The statement is true and that is a fact. We put up with him hiring his old UK players and his other coaching buddies. That has nothing to do with Pitino failing to oversee people like McGee which led to our downfall.

Pitino's downfall was hiring a coach to "get top talent". His name was Jordan Fair, and Pitino couldn't pick him out of a line-up six weeks before he was hired. Fair was not an "old crony" or someone whom Pitino owed a favor.

Like I said, you're clueless...

 

[MikeMcCammon]

Pitino's downfall was hiring a coach to "get top talent". His name was Jordan Fair, and Pitino couldn't pick him out of a line-up six weeks before he was hired. Fair was not an "old crony" or someone whom Pitino owed a favor.

Like I said, you're clueless...

More of an indictment of Pitino than me.

 

[zipp]

More of an indictment of Pitino than me.

Neither of you know what you're talking about...

 

[nccardfan]

I think Denny recruited pretty well before Wade Houston. Two Final Fours and many great players in 4 seasons. I actually thought Pitino was a mediocre recruiter.

People may disagree but Dana Kirk was a decent recruiter before bolting for memphus state.

 

[gocds]

People may disagree but Dana Kirk was a decent recruiter before bolting for memphus state.

Yeah, and then he went to prison for Income Tax Evasion. A prince of a guy.

GO CARDS - BEAT EVERYBODY!!! God Bless America!!!

 

[HedleyLamarr]

Unfortunately a lot of schools have this attitude toward wealthy supporters. How many of you remember the infamous $50/$100 handshakes at uahkay? Supposedly that went on for years and may be still be going on. Who knows?

GO CARDS - BEAT EVERYBODY!!! God Bless America!!!

Given inflation, those 1950 $100 handshakes for Groza, Beard, Barnstable, Spivey etc., are worth more than $1000 (per game) today. Three championships that should clearly be vacated.

 

[wilkie01]

Given inflation, those 1950 $100 handshakes for Groza, Beard, Barnstable, Spivey etc., are worth more than $1000 (per game) today. Three championships that should clearly be vacated.

Spot on! You always have to convert prior money to today's value to make a valid comparison for analysis and comparison.