Defense Needs a ton of work

[zipp]

Go back and look at the defense recruiting last 4 years. It hasn’t been very good. When you have no continuity 4 coordinators in 4 years recruiting is pretty tough. Add in the transfers you have a void talent wise.

The coaches have to do better. I tend to wait and see how they recruit 1st then see how the players develop. Hard to judge a class until they actually play. We will see what kind of progress is made next year.

All this "defensive recruiting" rhetoric is an excuse. Where was that perspective DURING those recruiting years? Nowhere. It's analogous to the Petrino contract garbage, all of it after the fact. Our recruiting classes have been rated as well as they ever have been.

And why was your offense so much better this year with the same players? That's what coaching can do for you...

 

[Knucklehank1]

“All this "defensive recruiting" rhetoric is an excuse.”

Not having the proper personnel to run your scheme nor having any NFL draft type quality players seems like a good “excuse” (along with some coaching scheme issues).

 

[zipp]

“All this "defensive recruiting" rhetoric is an excuse.”

Not having the proper personnel to run your scheme nor having any NFL draft type quality players seems like a good “excuse” (along with some coaching scheme issues).

Where did Satterfield express any doubts in the preseason about "having the proper personnel to run [his] scheme"? I don't recall that.

As far as I'm concerned, that's just morphing your excuse...

 

[Knucklehank1]

Where did Satterfield express any doubts in the preseason about "having the proper personnel to run [his] scheme"? I don't recall that.

As far as I'm concerned, that's just morphing your excuse...

Not sure. What I can see from my own two eyes (which includes 4 years of playing college football defense) is that we don’t have enough talent on the defensive side of the ball. No way we can run a 3 man front against UK with the guys we got. Some of that is on the coaches, some of that is on lacking in talent.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

Our recruiting classes have been rated as well as they ever have been.

And why was your offense so much better this year with the same players? That's what coaching can do for you...

Could some of it have to do with key pieces on offense not transferring, where OTOH a few key pieces on defense did?

Knuckles do you have the data on that?

 

[Thecycle27]

Where did Satterfield express any doubts in the preseason about "having the proper personnel to run [his] scheme"? I don't recall that.

As far as I'm concerned, that's just morphing your excuse...

Kids that transferred on defense Greenard, Love, Jackson, and Boykin plus Dumerville was shut down. Plus you have players switching positions. You don’t do that if you already have talented players in those positions.

 

[beantowncard]

That’s an excuse...

Why is that an “excuse” but not “bad coaches”, or “Vince” or “clown show”? Aren’t they all excuses?

 

[zipp]

Could some of it have to do with key pieces on offense not transferring, where OTOH a few key pieces on defense did?

Knuckles do you have the data on that?

Kids that transferred on defense Greenard, Love, Jackson, and Boykin plus Dumerville was shut down. Plus you have players switching positions. You don’t do that if you already have talented players in those positions.

Here's a national Bleacher Report article summarizing football transfers. LINK I'm C&P-ing intact the U of L info, and following it with my remarks...

"Key Acquisitions: Ean Pfeifer (OL, Vanderbilt); T.J. McCoy (C, Florida)

Key Departures: Jon Greenard (DE/LB, Florida); Jairus Brents (CB, TBD); Allen Love (DT, Mississippi State); Marcus Riley (WR; TBD); Trey Smith (RB, Wyoming); Colin Wilson (RB, TBD); Jordan Travis (QB, Florida State); Sean McCormack (QB, Western Kentucky)

Fresh off a 2-10 season in which the Louisville Cardinals allowed more than twice as many points as they scored, early expectations for 2019 weren't exactly sky high. That didn't get any better as player after player entered the transfer portal, either.

Jon Greenard was the biggest blow for Louisville. He suffered a wrist injury in the first quarter of the season opener against Alabama and did not appear in another game last year, but he was arguably Louisville's best defender as a redshirt sophomore in 2017. He led the Cardinals in tackles for loss (15.5) and sacks (7.0) as one of the best pass-rushers in the ACC. He'll now be a key cog for the Gators instead.

The Cardinals also lost a ton of depth on offense with two quarterbacks and two running backs jumping ship.

Neither Jordan Travis nor Sean McCormack played much last season behind Jawon Pass and Malik Cunningham, and they were probably going to be buried on the QB depth chart again this year. But given how ineffective both Pass and Cunningham were in 2018, it's possible that either Travis or McCormack could have become a factor this year.

The running back departures are even more noteworthy, as Trey Smith and Colin Wilson each averaged 5.3 yards per carry last year in what was a backfield by committee. No Cardinal tallied 80 or more carries, but Smith and Wilson were the two best rushing options on the roster aside from Cunningham. With both of them leaving and Jeremy Smith having graduated, Louisville's rushing attack should be even more anemic in 2019 than it already was..."​

There's nothing in that analysis that highlights net attrition on defense vs. offense. Compounded by the fact that the starting QB at that point (June 2019) missed most of the season and was a non-factor.

The narrative about SO MUCH of a talent deficit on defense is just that, a narrative. If it wasn't, I could easily find preseason references to what we were about to face with our depleted roster. There are no such references--except now, after the fact...

 

[Thecycle27]

Just because you and national media don’t know the roster doesn’t mean it isn’t still a fact. They lost 5 players on the dline to transfer or having to sit out.

 

[Knucklehank1]

Here's a national Bleacher Report article summarizing football transfers. LINK I'm C&P-ing intact the U of L info, and following it with my remarks...

"Key Acquisitions: Ean Pfeifer (OL, Vanderbilt); T.J. McCoy (C, Florida)

Key Departures: Jon Greenard (DE/LB, Florida); Jairus Brents (CB, TBD); Allen Love (DT, Mississippi State); Marcus Riley (WR; TBD); Trey Smith (RB, Wyoming); Colin Wilson (RB, TBD); Jordan Travis (QB, Florida State); Sean McCormack (QB, Western Kentucky)

Fresh off a 2-10 season in which the Louisville Cardinals allowed more than twice as many points as they scored, early expectations for 2019 weren't exactly sky high. That didn't get any better as player after player entered the transfer portal, either.

Jon Greenard was the biggest blow for Louisville. He suffered a wrist injury in the first quarter of the season opener against Alabama and did not appear in another game last year, but he was arguably Louisville's best defender as a redshirt sophomore in 2017. He led the Cardinals in tackles for loss (15.5) and sacks (7.0) as one of the best pass-rushers in the ACC. He'll now be a key cog for the Gators instead.

The Cardinals also lost a ton of depth on offense with two quarterbacks and two running backs jumping ship.

Neither Jordan Travis nor Sean McCormack played much last season behind Jawon Pass and Malik Cunningham, and they were probably going to be buried on the QB depth chart again this year. But given how ineffective both Pass and Cunningham were in 2018, it's possible that either Travis or McCormack could have become a factor this year.

The running back departures are even more noteworthy, as Trey Smith and Colin Wilson each averaged 5.3 yards per carry last year in what was a backfield by committee. No Cardinal tallied 80 or more carries, but Smith and Wilson were the two best rushing options on the roster aside from Cunningham. With both of them leaving and Jeremy Smith having graduated, Louisville's rushing attack should be even more anemic in 2019 than it already was..."​

There's nothing in that analysis that highlights net attrition on defense vs. offense. Compounded by the fact that the starting QB at that point (June 2019) missed most of the season and was a non-factor.

The narrative about SO MUCH of a talent deficit on defense is just that, a narrative. If it wasn't, I could easily find preseason references to what we were about to face with our depleted roster. There are no such references--except now, after the fact...

Wow...those quotes are a real ringing endorsement of the defense!!! They were historically bad in 2018 and basically did not add any contributing pieces for 2019. There was some improvement statically in 2019 without any significant additions.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

The narrative about SO MUCH of a talent deficit on defense is just that, a narrative. If it wasn't, I could easily find preseason references to what we were about to face with our depleted roster. .

https://louisville.forums.rivals.co...ons-for-2019-as-of-today-updated-11-17.43182/

The majority of this community predicted a losing season. That's really the bottom line on what the posters on this board claimed the Cards were about to face with the depleted roster.

You're acting like this board predicted 9/10 wins and are now making up excuses for coming up short on that. This is a straw man argument you appear to be making.

Are you making an argument that the community predicted a losing season based on prediction of staff competency and not what the roster looked like?

Posters certainly weren't blaming the current staff for predicting doom and gloom, they hadn't even coached a game here yet. The predictions were all based on the players the team had returning, which some blamed the prior staff for the "cupboard being bare" as one poster put it.



Cycle also pointed out the staff would be miracle workers if they got the D into the top 50. He claimed the O could be fine.


"I am in the 4 to 5 range as well. The offense has the pieces to run his offense well enough to be decent if they can find a QB. The defense is the question mark and this staff would have to be miracle workers to turn into a top 50 defense. Success for me would be getting it in the top 75 in total defense. If that happens they will be in every game. I would be happy with that at this point."

26 Thecycle27, Dec 21, 2018

 

[Thecycle27]

Look this is a combination of things. Coaching absolutely matters so I get criticizing the staff after giving up 500 plus yards. It was a disaster. However to have the belief that having little talent is an excuse is just ridiculous. It is a reality.

The offense had a head coach. while a jerk, was known for his offensive mind plus they had a Heisman. They could recruit to that side of the ball.

The defense has had 4 coordinators in 4 years that is very difficult to recruit too. Who had the relationships with the recruits? The other factor is defense in college is extremely hard to coach. There aren’t many coaches that can make an immediate impact. It takes time depending on school and coaching continuity. This is a legit 3-4 year process.

 

[beantowncard]

All this "defensive recruiting" rhetoric is an excuse. Where was that perspective DURING those recruiting years? Nowhere. It's analogous to the Petrino contract garbage, all of it after the fact. Our recruiting classes have been rated as well as they ever have been.

And why was your offense so much better this year with the same players? That's what coaching can do for you...

Maybe it has something to do with Micale being a better fit in this offense. Maybe it has to do with many of the players being a year older. Give Saban our players-do you think he wins the $EC?

 

[zipp]

https://louisville.forums.rivals.co...ons-for-2019-as-of-today-updated-11-17.43182/

The majority of this community predicted a losing season. That's really the bottom line on what the posters on this board claimed the Cards were about to face with the depleted roster.

You're acting like this board predicted 9/10 wins and are now making up excuses for coming up short on that. This is a straw man argument you appear to be making.

Are you making an argument that the community predicted a losing season based on prediction of staff competency and not what the roster looked like?

Posters certainly weren't blaming the current staff for predicting doom and gloom, they hadn't even coached a game here yet. The predictions were all based on the players the team had returning, which some blamed the prior staff for the "cupboard being bare" as one poster put it.



Cycle also pointed out the staff would be miracle workers if they got the D into the top 50. He claimed the O could be fine.


"I am in the 4 to 5 range as well. The offense has the pieces to run his offense well enough to be decent if they can find a QB. The defense is the question mark and this staff would have to be miracle workers to turn into a top 50 defense. Success for me would be getting it in the top 75 in total defense. If that happens they will be in every game. I would be happy with that at this point."

26 Thecycle27, Dec 21, 2018

You're missing or smearing the issue...

No one I read or recall predicted problems on defense with respect to the offense like we are seeing. The defense wasn't hit disproportionately with transfers or injuries. All of this talk about a depleted roster on defense was never heard until we started having serious on-the-field problems. Now, talent on defense is amazingly a huge problem.

That's a narrative borne out of convenience and an unwillingness to consider other potential issues like coaching. In fact, based on nothing but our own experience, coaching is what I suspect. The difference between my position and that of the coaching apologists is that I'll acknowledge we don't know for sure yet. I might THINK it's coaching, but I wouldn't remove or reshuffle any of these guys until we know more. I wouldn't make a martyr out of the D coordinator by taking him out now. If I'm right, we'll see people in this space lighting the match before I get a chance...

 

[zipp]

Look this is a combination of things. Coaching absolutely matters so I get criticizing the staff after giving up 500 plus yards. It was a disaster. However to have the belief that having little talent is an excuse is just ridiculous. It is a reality.

The offense had a head coach. while a jerk, was known for his offensive mind plus they had a Heisman. They could recruit to that side of the ball.

The defense has had 4 coordinators in 4 years that is very difficult to recruit too. Who had the relationships with the recruits? The other factor is defense in college is extremely hard to coach. There aren’t many coaches that can make an immediate impact. It takes time depending on school and coaching continuity. This is a legit 3-4 year process.

I'm not singling out any POV that considers the problem unresolved. Too many here wanna say it's talent...period. THAT is shortsighted. It may end up being right, but you (not you personally) don't know yet.

And as you say, it could even be more complicated, i.e., a combination of things...

 

[gocards1987]

Just because you and national media don’t know the roster doesn’t mean it isn’t still a fact. They lost 5 players on the dline to transfer or having to sit out.

He is using a bleacher report article which is barely above random fans just writing stuff.

 

[gocards1987]

I'm not singling out any POV that considers the problem unresolved. Too many here wanna say it's talent...period. THAT is shortsighted. It may end up being right, but you (not you personally) don't know yet.

And as you say, it could even be more complicated, i.e., a combination of things...

But you don't know it isn't just talent so why are you complaining about the staff?

 

[zipp]

But you don't know it isn't just talent so why are you complaining about the staff?

Because too many here have already decided it's about "talent".

As I've said on many issues on many occasions, I'm a moderator and not in the message board management sense. If you're at an extreme or unfounded position, I'll tell you. No one who says "talent" knows that; at best, it's what they THINK.

Based on experience here, I think it's coaching. But I'll admit that's speculation. And as I've said on the talent issue, we didn't just discover this situation. We knew what our talent was coming INTO the season. No one said a word about the defense in that regard until that excuse was needed--I argue--to defend the coaches.

He is using a bleacher report article which is barely above random fans just writing stuff.

Then find us a better independent reference...

 

[Knucklehank1]

“No one I read or recall predicted problems on defense with respect to the offense like we are seeing. The defense wasn't hit disproportionately with transfers or injuries. All of this talk about a depleted roster on defense was never heard until we started having serious on-the-field problems. Now, talent on defense is amazingly a huge problem.”

You are displaying revisionist history. We were historically bad on defense last year. To be historically bad takes a special combination of horrible coaching and a deficiency in talent. Pretty much everyone agreed with that. There was never any conversation that the talent gap was improved in the offseason because quite frankly we struck out in recruiting and our best defensive player transferred. The hope was that an improvement in coaching would help us not be historically bad again. Statistically we did improve but clearly not enough for us to even field a decent defense. However we did improve despite little changes in personnel.

 

[zipp]

“No one I read or recall predicted problems on defense with respect to the offense like we are seeing. The defense wasn't hit disproportionately with transfers or injuries. All of this talk about a depleted roster on defense was never heard until we started having serious on-the-field problems. Now, talent on defense is amazingly a huge problem.”

You are displaying revisionist history. We were historically bad on defense last year. To be historically bad takes a special combination of horrible coaching and a deficiency in talent. Pretty much everyone agreed with that. There was never any conversation that the talent gap was improved in the offseason because quite frankly we struck out in recruiting and our best defensive player transferred. The hope was that an improvement in coaching would help us not be historically bad again. Statistically we did improve but clearly not enough for us to even field a decent defense. However we did improve despite little changes in personnel.

This isn't revisionist history, it's ACTUAL history...

National Rankings Total Offense/Defense
2019: Offense 38th, Defense 107th
2018: Offense 108th, Defense 122nd

Considering the offenses we're used to here, we were "historically bad " on defense AND offense in 2018.

Our offensive ranking improved 70 positions this year, while our defense improved by 15. And it's true that a good offense helps your defense by longer TOP, fewer 3-and-outs, etc. In the end, I'm not sure our underlying defense really improved at all this year even if it was statistically a little better...

 

[teamcanada]

But you don't know it isn't just talent so why are you complaining about the staff?

Because Tyra hired him. Notice how quite he was until now?

 

[teamcanada]

This isn't revisionist history, it's ACTUAL history...

National Rankings Total Offense/Defense
2019: Offense 38th, Defense 107th
2018: Offense 108th, Defense 122nd



Considering the offenses we're used to here, we were "historically bad " on defense AND offense in 2018.

Our offensive ranking improved 70 positions this year, while our defense improved by 15. And it's true that a good offense helps your defense by longer TOP, fewer 3-and-outs, etc. In the end, I'm not sure our underlying defense really improved at all this year even if it was statistically a little better...

You have a circular argument. Do you think the recruiting classes were rated where they were because of the Defensive talent that was coming in. The defense was much improved this year. Anyone who watched the games could see that.

 

[PHCARD]

I'm not singling out any POV that considers the problem unresolved. Too many here wanna say it's talent...period. THAT is shortsighted. It may end up being right, but you (not you personally) don't know yet.

And as you say, it could even be more complicated, i.e., a combination of things...

Never met a new boss that didn’t come in and make some mistakes with the new crew. It happens. So learning curves for both sides. But TEAM does produce results.

PS: We are lacking a complete defensive team of bodies.

 

[Rollem Cards]

Somebody(s) need to get some stories straight.

It hasn’t been that long ago when we heard Cort was coming back, him and somebody else I can’t recall, were going “kill it” in recruiting.

Now we don’t know if we can recruit “ACC/P5” players.

I didn’t know “Cort” left.

 

[Thecycle27]

I don’t think anyone is saying they can’t recruit. What I am saying is the current talent and depth levels are very low. They aren’t going to bring in a ton of talent that is ready to contribute their freshman year. They will have more bodies next year but it will be young.

That is why I am not going to lose my mind next year when the defense is marginally better. Now year 3-4 we should see start seeing a solid defense. Once that happens we should start seeing better recruits wanting to play at Louisville. It will be a slow process.

 

[LeFors4Ever]

I mean I will say that I think we did ignore how bad the defense was all year, we knew it but it didn’t matter as much until finally we played in a game we couldn’t score, much like the Miami game too.

Boston College gashed us with a backup QB. Wake Forrest almost came back and may have won if not for a good bounce on that kick. Virginia made a late run. NC State and Cuse moved it as well as they could cash in the red zone.

I think you could tell that we were just tired and didn’t have enough bodies to hold up. Most of the big numbers we gave up were late in games. I think playing Cuse before Kentucky hurt because they ran a lot of plays. So that hurt us the week before.

Our guys did make plays this year. They made some key stops. They forced some big turnovers. But then at other times they just got bullied and looked lost.

It’s hard to say if the coaching was the problem or not. Bad recruiting and 4 coordinators in 4 years hurts too.

I think Brown did well all year scheming around our faults, but I think the game plan against UK wasn’t very good. It honestly looked like we were surprised at what they were doing at times. Other games, our guys did look like they knew what to do but not Saturday. I mean they adjusted at the half and our guys made 0 changes. But all coaches have a bad game plan every now and then,now is it going to be a habit? We’ll see.

But we really won’t see improvement in talent and depth until 2021 or so. Next year will prove if he can at least make them respectable after another year in the system and a few more fresh bodies.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

Because too many here have already decided it's about "talent" .

If you thought the D had enough talent, you would have predicted more wins or said, "This team will be lucky to win 4 games but the D has enough talent, or is talented." You did neither.

I also do believe many posters have pointed out the game plan defensively, at times..., the scheme, is/has been questionable., in addition to a lack of talent/depth on D. Meaning...

Your opinion that "too many here have already decided it's about "talent" is a touch of straw man argument. There are legit concerns from multiple posters being raised about the defense SS is using.


People shared their concerns over the summer about the talent on defense and lack of depth. It's not some "new thing" to give the staff a pass now. As Knuckles says, you're using revisionist history when posts are being copy/pasted for you that show otherwise.


Here's one from Knuckles...

https://louisville.forums.rivals.com/threads/so-im-looking-at-the-current-depth-chart.45761/

"I realize that Van Gorder was not a quality coach, but my gosh our defense was historically bad last year. We may have veterans but I’m not sure if that matters. Our defensive line in particular lacks depth."

6 Knucklehank1, Jul 22, 2019

And your buddy the Ghost...

"And, they’re little - really little except two LB spots - across the board. They had better fly to the ball and gang tackle or look the F out."

7 BPGhost, Jul 23, 2019

And Cycle again...though he disagreed with Knuckles about depth, he clearly is concerned about talent

The defense actually has depth just not sure what the talent level is where it needs to be.

15 Thecycle27, Jul 28, 2019

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

This isn't revisionist history, it's ACTUAL history...

National Rankings Total Offense/Defense
2019: Offense 38th, Defense 107th
2018: Offense 108th, Defense 122nd

Considering the offenses we're used to here, we were "historically bad " on defense AND offense in 2018.

Our offensive ranking improved 70 positions this year, while our defense improved by 15. And it's true that a good offense helps your defense by longer TOP, fewer 3-and-outs, etc. In the end, I'm not sure our underlying defense really improved at all this year even if it was statistically a little better...

Ok. If the defense made the same leap the offense made the team would have won 9 or 10 games. That was never going to happen. It didn't. See your post for reference.

And you didn't think it was going to happen either. Which is why you used 4 wins as your success barometer.

So the O got better and the D didn't, or barely did. Ok. Thanks for the update.

 

[nccardfan]

https://louisville.forums.rivals.co...ons-for-2019-as-of-today-updated-11-17.43182/

The majority of this community predicted a losing season. That's really the bottom line on what the posters on this board claimed the Cards were about to face with the depleted roster.

You're acting like this board predicted 9/10 wins and are now making up excuses for coming up short on that. This is a straw man argument you appear to be making.

Are you making an argument that the community predicted a losing season based on prediction of staff competency and not what the roster looked like?

Posters certainly weren't blaming the current staff for predicting doom and gloom, they hadn't even coached a game here yet. The predictions were all based on the players the team had returning, which some blamed the prior staff for the "cupboard being bare" as one poster put it.



Cycle also pointed out the staff would be miracle workers if they got the D into the top 50. He claimed the O could be fine.


"I am in the 4 to 5 range as well. The offense has the pieces to run his offense well enough to be decent if they can find a QB. The defense is the question mark and this staff would have to be miracle workers to turn into a top 50 defense. Success for me would be getting it in the top 75 in total defense. If that happens they will be in every game. I would be happy with that at this point."

26 Thecycle27, Dec 21, 2018

Why go back to the start of the season? I remember a thread about the time we were 5-3 and just beat #21 Virginia. Hell, I remember some saying 8-4 after that.

 

[wreckcard#22]

I'm gonna say this problem will likely persist next year, I hope for some improvement; but we can't expect much more given all the reasons previously stated.

 

[gocards1987]

Because too many here have already decided it's about "talent".

As I've said on many issues on many occasions, I'm a moderator and not in the message board management sense. If you're at an extreme or unfounded position, I'll tell you. No one who says "talent" knows that; at best, it's what they THINK.

Based on experience here, I think it's coaching. But I'll admit that's speculation. And as I've said on the talent issue, we didn't just discover this situation. We knew what our talent was coming INTO the season. No one said a word about the defense in that regard until that excuse was needed--I argue--to defend the coaches.

Then find us a better independent reference...

I call BS on you thinking its coaching. You are hoping its coaching because you hope all Tyra hires fail. Its the reason that the any losses have all of a sudden gone from being the athletic director and whoever else you want to blame not named Petrino to being completely the coaches' fault. We knew what our defense was going in and there was a ton of talk about it when the depth chart came out and the d-line was small and we had a walk-on starting against ND. People were predicting 2-3 wins for a reason. How fast have you forgotten that?

If you use bleacher report I don't know why I need to find an independent reference. Bleacher report is written by fans and there opinion is basically worth the same as ours. Atleast the people on here would know more about Louisville football specifically. The BR article isn't even complete as we had more transfers than it lists We lost Jarrett Jackson off the line also. So we lost 3 guys off a position group that we already know that Petrino didn't recruit well.

 

[zipp]

Because Tyra hired him. Notice how quite he was until now?

Quite what? And you're off topic again.

You have a circular argument. Do you think the recruiting classes were rated where they were because of the Defensive talent that was coming in. The defense was much improved this year. Anyone who watched the games could see that.

The old eye test.

That's a big reason why I rely on data. The defense was only marginally better this year. In fact, my eyes agree with the data.

Recruiting classes don't get ranked by offense or defense. And your roster reflected by the above 2018 and 2019 data wasn't much different between those years. In the absence of additional info, that would indicate your offensive coaching was great and your defensive coaching continued to suck...

 

[zipp]

...That is why I am not going to lose my mind next year when the defense is marginally better. Now year 3-4 we should see start seeing a solid defense. Once that happens we should start seeing better recruits wanting to play at Louisville. It will be a slow process.

The defense better improve. The coaches on the other side of the ball got things going immediately...

 

[zipp]

If you thought the D had enough talent, you would have predicted more wins or said, "This team will be lucky to win 4 games but the D has enough talent, or is talented." You did neither.

I also do believe many posters have pointed out the game plan defensively, at times..., the scheme, is/has been questionable., in addition to a lack of talent/depth on D. Meaning...

Your opinion that "too many here have already decided it's about "talent" is a touch of straw man argument. There are legit concerns from multiple posters being raised about the defense SS is using.


People shared their concerns over the summer about the talent on defense and lack of depth. It's not some "new thing" to give the staff a pass now. As Knuckles says, you're using revisionist history when posts are being copy/pasted for you that show otherwise.


Here's one from Knuckles...

https://louisville.forums.rivals.com/threads/so-im-looking-at-the-current-depth-chart.45761/

"I realize that Van Gorder was not a quality coach, but my gosh our defense was historically bad last year. We may have veterans but I’m not sure if that matters. Our defensive line in particular lacks depth."

6 Knucklehank1, Jul 22, 2019

And your buddy the Ghost...

"And, they’re little - really little except two LB spots - across the board. They had better fly to the ball and gang tackle or look the F out."

7 BPGhost, Jul 23, 2019

And Cycle again...though he disagreed with Knuckles about depth, he clearly is concerned about talent

The defense actually has depth just not sure what the talent level is where it needs to be.

15 Thecycle27, Jul 28, 2019

I wasn't asked to justify a 4-8 prediction, I just offered it without supporting info. It was a guesstimate like everyone else's, so sue me.

And you're cherry picking quotes about the defense. There was plenty of discussion about the entire team, personnel and otherwise. I read most of it. There was no consensus that the defense was gonna have big roster problems until it was obvious not much had changed on the field. Now we have a lot of excuses for what is likely some level of bad coaching.

It's ridiculous how much a$$ covering is attempted in this space.

Ok. If the defense made the same leap the offense made the team would have won 9 or 10 games. That was never going to happen. It didn't. See your post for reference.

And you didn't think it was going to happen either. Which is why you used 4 wins as your success barometer.

So the O got better and the D didn't, or barely did. Ok. Thanks for the update.

It ain't just about what changed. It's WHY or HOW. It's called "analysis"...

 

[zipp]

I call BS on you thinking its coaching. You are hoping its coaching because you hope all Tyra hires fail. Its the reason that the any losses have all of a sudden gone from being the athletic director and whoever else you want to blame not named Petrino to being completely the coaches' fault. We knew what our defense was going in and there was a ton of talk about it when the depth chart came out and the d-line was small and we had a walk-on starting against ND. People were predicting 2-3 wins for a reason. How fast have you forgotten that?

If you use bleacher report I don't know why I need to find an independent reference. Bleacher report is written by fans and there opinion is basically worth the same as ours. Atleast the people on here would know more about Louisville football specifically. The BR article isn't even complete as we had more transfers than it lists We lost Jarrett Jackson off the line also. So we lost 3 guys off a position group that we already know that Petrino didn't recruit well.

You're drifting OT again. I never said anything about "Vince" being responsible on this subject although he did face plant hiring his #1 guy. Thanks for bringing that up again.

I also said Satterfield had a great season with 7 wins. That has little to do with figuring out why the defense sucked--or why most of the team sucked on Saturday. To reiterate, these separate outcomes aren't mutually exclusive.

You can't find a better independent reference supporting your position, or you'd offer it. Typical...

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

I wasn't asked to justify a 4-8 prediction, I just offered it without supporting info. It was a guesstimate like everyone else's, so sue me.

And you're cherry picking quotes about the defense.


.

Cherry picking evidence. Sads.

Speaking of cherry picked posts...you said you'd consider the season a success if the Cards won more than 4. You sticking with it or moving the goal posts?

 

[Knucklehank1]

I wasn't asked to justify a 4-8 prediction, I just offered it without supporting info. It was a guesstimate like everyone else's, so sue me.

And you're cherry picking quotes about the defense. There was plenty of discussion about the entire team, personnel and otherwise. I read most of it. There was no consensus that the defense was gonna have big roster problems until it was obvious not much had changed on the field. Now we have a lot of excuses for what is likely some level of bad coaching.

It's ridiculous how much a$$ covering is attempted in this space.

It ain't just about what changed. It's WHY or HOW. It's called "analysis"...

Cherry picking quotes? Lol. Find posts from any credible posters that said they thought the defense was going to be significantly better. I can’t speak for others but I predicted 3 wins primarily because I thought the defense was going to suck. It’s basically the same guys that gave up 66 points to GaTech, 77 points to Clemson, 56 points to UK, 56 points to Wake. Clearly the defense improved and the offense improved by leaps and bounds.

It does seem like you are coming around on the notion that the prior staff wasn’t ACC quality and was overpaid. Glad you are finally convinced.

 

[nccardfan]

Somebody(s) need to get some stories straight.

It hasn’t been that long ago when we heard Cort was coming back, him and somebody else I can’t recall, were going “kill it” in recruiting.

Now we don’t know if we can recruit “ACC/P5” players.

I didn’t know “Cort” left.

It’s not necessarily just about being able to recruit, it’s common knowledge that Brown wants quicker, faster DL. How did that go? Either he changes his defensive philosophy, we change defensive coaches, or we continue down this path and get embarrassed by P5 teams.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

I also said Satterfield had a great season with 7 wins.

Then quit yer bitchin' ! ! !

Or...

#MorgantownCard

Faaaaaaaaaaar that sum of beeeeetch

 

[Thecycle27]

The defense better improve. The coaches on the other side of the ball got things going immediately...

You completely ignore or unwilling to admit the fact that the offense has really good players that received good coaching. They didn’t make that big jump statistically without good players.

The defensive coaches didn’t have much to work with talent wise. Their improvement was marginal. I think next year the growth will continue but not huge jump.

I am willing to be patient with the defensive staff you aren’t that is fine.