Cards #30

[shadow force]

LOUISVILLE, Ky. - For the first time in over three years, the Louisville men's basketball program is at least getting mentioned in the Associated Press Top 25 Poll.

The Cardinals (12-5, 5-1 ACC) garnered 17 points in week 11 of the AP Top 25 to jump into the "others receiving votes" section, earning a de facto ranking of No. 30. It's Louisville's first time receiving votes in the AP Poll since getting two points in the 2021-22 Week Four poll.

 

[TheRealVille]

It's ridiculous. People like Jay Bilas says it's absurd Louisville isn't ranked. What do they have to do? Why are there reservations?

I agree the AP and coaches polls mean little but they are like grades each week during a long season. Having that number next to your name means you're a good team. The higher the number the better team you are.

As for the NET or any other computer ranking, why is Louisville in the 30's? Why aren't they in the 20's with the strength of schedule and no bad losses? They also have at least 4 quad 1 & 2 wins.

What do these voters want? Do they not look ahead and see Louisville's remaining schedule and notice it's nowhere near as difficult as it was through the first six ACC games?

Shouldn't they expect Louisville to win more games? It's not like some team getting ranked after starting 10 and 1 with 7 cupcake wins, only to have a rugged remaining schedule against multiple ranked teams.

There shouldn't be any doubt that Louisville is a top 25 team and why they're hesitant to vote for the Cards leads to accusations of bias.

 

[shadow force]

They'll just have to keep winning games then they can't be denied anymore. That's the only way it seems right now. It's nice to at least be getting some votes now for the first time in years.

 

[TheRealVille]

Yes it's nice, but we need to move on from comparing the past two seasons to what this team is. For me it was in the Battle for Atlantis that I knew this was a whole new deal for Louisville basketball.

But at the same time, Louisville is still a elite level program and it should be treated like one by the so called basketball experts. As I've said over and over, what exactly is it keeping the Cards out of these voters top 25? The five losses?

This six game winning streak is current and it shows multiple Quad 1 and 2 wins, most by double digits. How long does it take for the voters to notice? Apparently they only now do but they're not convinced so they omit Louisville from the top 25.

That's BS no matter how you slice it.

 

[2330859]

I would be a liar if I said it does not matter to me. This response from outside media, and some opposing coaches reminds me of what UNLV experienced so many decades ago after “Tark the Shark” encountered the wrath of the NCAA. There remains a lot of disrespect over the inaccurate innuendo included in the FBI Report that made UL appear to be a chronic violator of NCAA rules.

 

[nccardfan]

Simple. There are only 4 teams in the top 25 that have 4 losses, UCONN (defending champions), Gonzaga (geez, look at their schedule), Illinois (ranked earlier in top 10) and Baylor. We have 5 losses.

They have noticed but its a long way from being ranked in the 300's to get back into the top 25... Think about that.

 

[TheRealVille]

Simple. There are only 4 teams in the top 25 that have 4 losses, UCONN (defending champions), Gonzaga (geez, look at their schedule), Illinois (ranked earlier in top 10) and Baylor. We have 5 losses.

They have noticed but its a long way from being ranked in the 300's to get back into the top 25... Think about that.

No, no no. Each week the voters pick their top 25. There's no criteria that states a team has to work its way up to get ranked over time. They're supposed to evaluate the teams and their performance. What a teams former position on earlier polls should have NO bearing on the current week's poll.

An example would be what if the Cards beat Duke on the road instead of Pitt. Now I know that Duke would be a more impressive win, but Louisville would still have 5 losses, so to your theory, Louisville still shouldn't be ranked.

That makes no sense and some pretty big media pundits agree like Jay Bilas. A voter is supposed to consider only the current team's performance, not the year before, especially a team like Louisville that had ZERO players or coaches back from a year ago.

Take a look at the teams ranked 20 to 25 and ask yourself why those teams are ranked ahead of Louisville? The only sense it makes is the ongoing bias by voters against Louisville.

Wisconsin lost three in a roll to quad 1 and 2 teams and after winning 5 in a roll against lesser teams, are ranked.

Michigan has lost to Wake Forest and Arkansas, yet they're ranked.

Utah State? Yeah right.

Baylor is 1 and 4 against ranked teams and the rest of their wins have been mostly against non tournament teams. They're ranked #25. Why?

 

[TopCatCal]

LOUISVILLE, Ky. - For the first time in over three years, the Louisville men's basketball program is at least getting mentioned in the Associated Press Top 25 Poll.

The Cardinals (12-5, 5-1 ACC) garnered 17 points in week 11 of the AP Top 25 to jump into the "others receiving votes" section, earning a de facto ranking of No. 30. It's Louisville's first time receiving votes in the AP Poll since getting two points in the 2021-22 Week Four poll.

View embedded media

The way you guys have looked over the last month, you look like a Top-25 team. College basketball is better when Louisville is good.

 

[TheRealVille]

The coaches poll is even more biased against Louisville. The Cards received just 3 votes. Yet both Clemson and West Virginia are teams that Louisville has beaten. WVU is ranked 25. Clemson has more votes.

UCLA has 6 losses and has 12 votes. Maryland has 4 losses and has 8 votes. Texas Tech has 4 losses and has 6 votes.

New Mexico and St. Mary's have more votes than Louisville.

What exactly is the reasoning for Louisville to have just three votes after what they have accomplished? It's simple bias and it's blatant.

 

[TheRealVille]

The way you guys have looked over the last month, you look like a Top-25 team. College basketball is better when Louisville is good.

Exactly! I just don't get Cards fans arguing against Louisville being ranked. It makes no sense, except only to be a contrarian to certain posters.

Louisville is second behind Duke in the ACC and gave the Blue Devils the best game of any other ACC team.

Louisville has won three conference road games, and beat both Clemson and UNC by double digits.

Louisville has zero bad losses with Oklahoma being the worst loss and that was the game Pryor was injured.

Louisville has played better since losing Pryor and Johnson which is unheard of.

Pat Kelsey is being talked about as coach of the year.

But despite all of this, the team doesn't deserve to be ranked in the top 25? And in the coaches poll they have only three votes.

If the Cards win both games this week, that would be 8 wins in a roll and a 16 and 5 record. They will still probably not be ranked in either poll as it looks now.

It's laughable anyone denying the obvious bias.

 

[cardinalrod]

I don’t think the voters pay much attention to who you’ve played and beat once you get out of the top 10. They’re looking at the wins vs losses at that point.

 

[nccardfan]

No, no no. Each week the voters pick their top 25. There's no criteria that states a team has to work its way up to get ranked over time. They're supposed to evaluate the teams and their performance. What a teams former position on earlier polls should have NO bearing on the current week's poll.

An example would be what if the Cards beat Duke on the road instead of Pitt. Now I know that Duke would be a more impressive win, but Louisville would still have 5 losses, so to your theory, Louisville still shouldn't be ranked.

That makes no sense and some pretty big media pundits agree like Jay Bilas. A voter is supposed to consider only the current team's performance, not the year before, especially a team like Louisville that had ZERO players or coaches back from a year ago.

Take a look at the teams ranked 20 to 25 and ask yourself why those teams are ranked ahead of Louisville? The only sense it makes is the ongoing bias by voters against Louisville.

Wisconsin lost three in a roll to quad 1 and 2 teams and after winning 5 in a roll against lesser teams, are ranked.

Michigan has lost to Wake Forest and Arkansas, yet they're ranked.

Utah State? Yeah right.

Baylor is 1 and 4 against ranked teams and the rest of their wins have been mostly against non tournament teams. They're ranked #25. Why?

You can't use your example because we didn't beat Duke (who is #4) but we did beat Pitt. I would agree that if we beat Duke, UK but still had 5 losses, yes we would be ranked higher than #30, but we didn't so here we are. So the answer is just keep winning and it will take care of itself.

 

[glassmanJ]

none of this matters, rankings don't matter. if you want to win, simply win. if you want to be in the tourney simply win. if you want to make it into the late rounds simply win. rankingsschmankings. As Al Davis always said, Just win Baby! as long as we are one of the 64 teams in the main field, nothing else matters but just win. btw, history has shown that ranking for any cards team generally goes to their head sand losses soon result. stay humble and don;t give a sh&t about what others think. reality is we are an 8.5 point favorite on the road in the acc. i think that says enough about what others think so screw the rankings

 

[beantowncard]

No, no no. Each week the voters pick their top 25. There's no criteria that states a team has to work its way up to get ranked over time. They're supposed to evaluate the teams and their performance. What a teams former position on earlier polls should have NO bearing on the current week's poll.

An example would be what if the Cards beat Duke on the road instead of Pitt. Now I know that Duke would be a more impressive win, but Louisville would still have 5 losses, so to your theory, Louisville still shouldn't be ranked.

That makes no sense and some pretty big media pundits agree like Jay Bilas. A voter is supposed to consider only the current team's performance, not the year before, especially a team like Louisville that had ZERO players or coaches back from a year ago.

Take a look at the teams ranked 20 to 25 and ask yourself why those teams are ranked ahead of Louisville? The only sense it makes is the ongoing bias by voters against Louisville.

Wisconsin lost three in a roll to quad 1 and 2 teams and after winning 5 in a roll against lesser teams, are ranked.

Michigan has lost to Wake Forest and Arkansas, yet they're ranked.

Utah State? Yeah right.

Baylor is 1 and 4 against ranked teams and the rest of their wins have been mostly against non tournament teams. They're ranked #25. Why?

You’re right, but the way it usually works is that teams do move up gradually with each win.

none of this matters, rankings don't matter. if you want to win, simply win. if you want to be in the tourney simply win. if you want to make it into the late rounds simply win. rankingsschmankings. As Al Davis always said, Just win Baby! as long as we are one of the 64 teams in the main field, nothing else matters but just win. btw, history has shown that ranking for any cards team generally goes to their head sand losses soon result. stay humble and don;t give a sh&t about what others think. reality is we are an 8.5 point favorite on the road in the acc. i think that says enough about what others think so screw the rankings

True dat!

 

[TheRealVille]

You can't use your example because we didn't beat Duke (who is #4) but we did beat Pitt. I would agree that if we beat Duke, UK but still had 5 losses, yes we would be ranked higher than #30, but we didn't so here we are. So the answer is just keep winning and it will take care of itself.

Had we beaten UK and Duke but still had 5 losses it would mean we lost to lesser teams, thus we still probably wouldn't be ranked.

The point I made about Duke was a reply to the 5 losses as a reason some give for the Cards not being ranked. I think we have beaten enough good teams to be ranked despite the 5 losses, as you know were all against ranked teams. If most of our 12 wins were over cupcakes and ACC bottom dwellers, then yes, we shouldn't be ranked.

So yes, I believe I can use that example. And how much more winning will it take to take care of itself? We play Syracuse and Virginia this week. Will that be enough? A 8 game winning streak be enough?

We don't have another game against a ranked team. Maybe Pitt in February?

 

[shadow force]

Does the Cards win against a ranked IU team still count as such? Kinda confused.

 

[TheRealVille]

Does the Cards win against a ranked IU team still count as such? Kinda confused.

It counts as much as someone who wants to use "ranked" as a criteria, but I believe the Quad system is what is used by the NCAA committee.

So Louisville beating IU I think was a quad 1 victory.

 

[shadow force]

It counts as much as someone who wants to use "ranked" as a criteria, but I believe the Quad system is what is used by the NCAA committee.

So Louisville beating IU I think was a quad 1 victory.

Makes more sense that way. Some people were talking about wins against ranked teams and how UofL didn't have any but they beat IU when they were ranked. They were saying it doesn't count because they're not ranked anymore.

 

[TheRealVille]

Makes more sense that way. Some people were talking about wins against ranked teams and how UofL didn't have any but they beat IU when they were ranked. They were saying it doesn't count because they're not ranked anymore.

That happens to teams all the time. We lost to Oklahoma when the Sooners wasn't ranked, but the following week we could say we lost to a ranked team.

Think of UNC, Clemson, FSU, IU, WVU and Pitt who could say in March, they all lost to a ranked team in Louisville.

Even the quads change and a quade 1 win a month later may be a quad 3 if you beat that team again.

 

[nccardfan]

none of this matters, rankings don't matter. if you want to win, simply win. if you want to be in the tourney simply win. if you want to make it into the late rounds simply win. rankingsschmankings. As Al Davis always said, Just win Baby! as long as we are one of the 64 teams in the main field, nothing else matters but just win. btw, history has shown that ranking for any cards team generally goes to their head sand losses soon result. stay humble and don;t give a sh&t about what others think. reality is we are an 8.5 point favorite on the road in the acc. i think that says enough about what others think so screw the rankings

Rankings do matter but at the end of the season because rankings = seeding.

 

[nccardfan]

Does the Cards win against a ranked IU team still count as such? Kinda confused.

Its definitely dynamic and subject to some change. Right now U of L has 3 Quad 1 wins (West Virginia, FSU and Pitt) and 5 Quad 1 losses. The Cards also have 3 Quad 2 wins (Indiana, North Carolina and Clemson). Who can figure? So I think the 5 Quad 1 losses also are a factor in why we are currently outside the top 25.

 

[TheRealVille]

Its definitely dynamic and subject to some change. Right now U of L has 3 Quad 1 wins (West Virginia, FSU and Pitt) and 5 Quad 1 losses. The Cards also have 3 Quad 2 wins (Indiana, North Carolina and Clemson). Who can figure? So I think the 5 Quad 1 losses also are a factor in why we are currently outside the top 25.

This is true as it's hard to believe FSU would be a quad 1 win, but that's indeed the case. Looking at the remaining schedule I just don't see many quad one matchups.

 

[glassmanJ]

Rankings do matter but at the end of the season because rankings = seeding.

seeding only matters to teams that can't win it all and their fanbases dream of sweet 16 runs.. it doesn't matter because if you're good you'll beat everyone. if you cannot beat a number 1 seed no matter your seed you won't win it all. only one #1 in your side of the bracket and only possibly three total you can face. so right now can you beat auburn, iowa st, duke and florida? my answer is yes, so who cares what seed we are, those assholes are scared of us now. make us a 16 for all i care and we'll beat the 1 in the first round.

 

[nccardfan]

seeding only matters to teams that can't win it all and their fanbases dream of sweet 16 runs.. it doesn't matter because if you're good you'll beat everyone. if you cannot beat a number 1 seed no matter your seed you won't win it all. only one #1 in your side of the bracket and only possibly three total you can face. so right now can you beat auburn, iowa st, duke and florida? my answer is yes, so who cares what seed we are, those assholes are scared of us now. make us a 16 for all i care and we'll beat the 1 in the first round.

So lets just look at your example. You don't have to beat all of those teams, Auburn, Iowa St, Duke and Florida because as you know the tournament doesn't play out like we all think it will. There will be upsets. You might only face one of those teams. Blasphemy for me saying this but UCLA was unranked when we beat them in the 1980 championship. Does anybody care? I don't. We didn't have to face IU in the tournament who was preseason #1 then.

 

[TheRealVille]

I know some are tired of my "rankings" obsession, but the more and more one looks into it, the more ridiculous it is that a team like Louisville isn't ranked.

Take Gonzaga for example. They are #16 with four losses, all to ranked teams and two of those teams are no longer ranked. (UCLA, WVU)

The Zags have two wins against ranked teams, one no longer ranked in Indiana and the other, Baylor is ranked #25. So why exactly is Gonzaga ranked 16th?

Louisville has the far better resume and yet, can barely get any votes.

 

[CardHack]

With college basketball, really where you are ranked in a Coaches or AP Poll in mid January does nothing more than add inches to your Richard.

In 1986 we were anywhere from 18th to no higher than 13th after losing twice in the Garden in the Preseason NIT until beating Memphis in the two final weekends Pre NCAA Tourney. We went into the Tourney at 7th.

In 2009 we were the NCAA Tourney Overall Number One seed. On January 12th we were 20th in the AP Poll.

In 2013 we were somewhat controversially the Tourney Overall Number One seed despite being 5th in the AP, but we rolled through our last Big East Tourney and obliterated a Syracuse that was Final Four bound. We were a season low 18th in the AP in the January 13th Poll.

In that context where we are ranked on January 13th, 2025...has Zip, Zero, Nada and Zilch to do with where we will be sitting on Selection Sunday. If you want to know the whole truth, it's probably going to be hard to do this, but I just want to get seeded high enough to play the first two rounds in Rupp. Talk about ReviVille...a fanbase starved for March with the short drive over to Lexington would be a springboard inconceivable from where we were sitting a year ago.

 

[nccardfan]

I know some are tired of my "rankings" obsession, but the more and more one looks into it, the more ridiculous it is that a team like Louisville isn't ranked.

Take Gonzaga for example. They are #16 with four losses, all to ranked teams and two of those teams are no longer ranked. (UCLA, WVU)

The Zags have two wins against ranked teams, one no longer ranked in Indiana and the other, Baylor is ranked #25. So why exactly is Gonzaga ranked 16th?

Louisville has the far better resume and yet, can barely get any votes.

First of all again its never ever about one team over another team. But since you asked again.

Gonzaga started out ranked #6. What did we say U of L was ranked 300+? Gonzaga started off beating then ranked #7 Baylor (now #25) by 40 points. Then beat #14/15 IU. Yes, they have 4 losses WVU in OT, UK (by 1 point), UCONN (defending NC by 6), and UCLA by 3 (preseason #22).

In contrast we lost to Tennessee by 22 (UT was ranked as high as 1 but is now 6), Oklahoma (who wasn't ranked, then was ranked and is outside the top 25), lose to Ole Miss who was ranked 24 preseason and is now ranked 23 by 23 (ugh!), Duke by 11 points, and UK by 8.

So yes, we deserved some recognition but considering where Gonzaga was and where we were explains a lot. Then its not just 4 losses vs 5 losses, Gonzaga hasn't lost by more than 8 points and that was in OT. We have 2 losses by 22 and 23 points.

Patience and confidence is required.

 

[2330859]

Just keep improving like we have seen this team demonstrate over the last several months, and the wins will come. Getting back into the tourney will make UL of those teams that no one will want to play.

 

[TheRealVille]

First of all again its never ever about one team over another team. But since you asked again.

Gonzaga started out ranked #6. What did we say U of L was ranked 300+? Gonzaga started off beating then ranked #7 Baylor (now #25) by 40 points. Then beat #14/15 IU. Yes, they have 4 losses WVU in OT, UK (by 1 point), UCONN (defending NC by 6), and UCLA by 3 (preseason #22).

In contrast we lost to Tennessee by 22 (UT was ranked as high as 1 but is now 6), Oklahoma (who wasn't ranked, then was ranked and is outside the top 25), lose to Ole Miss who was ranked 24 preseason and is now ranked 23 by 23 (ugh!), Duke by 11 points, and UK by 8.

So yes, we deserved some recognition but considering where Gonzaga was and where we were explains a lot. Then its not just 4 losses vs 5 losses, Gonzaga hasn't lost by more than 8 points and that was in OT. We have 2 losses by 22 and 23 points.

Patience and confidence is required.

Has Gonzaga lost two of its best players and gotten better?

Once again it shouldn't make any difference where teams were perceived in the pre-season when voting for the top 25 in mid January. If you were a voter for the AP, would you have Louisville in the top 25 today?

That's it. It's that simple. These excuses given for not voting for Louisville despite the Cards accomplishments are lame. In the coaches poll, the Cards got 3 votes.

That is bias, plain and simple.

 

[earsky]

That is bias, plain and simple.

Then so be it. We dug the hole. We've created the bias. We'll claw our way out one win at a time, change the perception of the program with the coaching hire and with the young men representing the Program and University.

We,meaning the Program.

 

[nccardfan]

Has Gonzaga lost two of its best players and gotten better?

Once again it shouldn't make any difference where teams were perceived in the pre-season when voting for the top 25 in mid January. If you were a voter for the AP, would you have Louisville in the top 25 today?

That's it. It's that simple. These excuses given for not voting for Louisville despite the Cards accomplishments are lame. In the coaches poll, the Cards got 3 votes.

That is bias, plain and simple.

Hell, you just provided reasons why voters shouldn't rank us higher. We had Pryor when we beat IU and West Virginia and almost beat Oklahoma. He's not coming back this year so how do you convince someone that you are actually better without him? By the way, I don't believe its true, I am only left wondering how good this team could really be but I'm not going to piss and moan about it. Just going to sit back and enjoy what we have!

 

[TheRealVille]

That is the current process and some are already there like Bilas and Packer, but for the most part, most pundits are just not convinced or they're reluctant to admit Louisville basketball is back.

Now I believe the current bias is due to the scandals, but UofL has always had its detractors with the pundits. The last season before covid shut down the season, Louisville reached #1 in the polls.

It was just the 2nd time in poll history that Louisville reached the top spot during the regular season. Despite all the wins, the final 4's, the three titles, and with two Hall of Fame coaches, voters were reluctant to vote the Cards #1.

Now I'm sure there's those who will give reasoning for this and I do remember when it was discussed more by Cards fans who believed there was a bias. Some even didn't mind because they liked being overlooked. Made the winning better.

For me however it was BS as programs like Memphis and Cincinnati both have been ranked #1 several times, and then there were the many times Louisville was under seeded in the big dance. I recall fans complaining about Louisville's seed in 2005 and 2014 especially.

I suppose these memories are why the current disregard bugs me so. I've been following Louisville sports for several decades now and I do realize many younger fans don't share my pessimism on this regard. So yes, keep winning and force the voters hand.

It's a Louisville basketball tradition after all.

 

[TheRealVille]

Hell, you just provided reasons why voters shouldn't rank us higher. We had Pryor when we beat IU and West Virginia and almost beat Oklahoma. He's not coming back this year so how do you convince someone that you are actually better without him? By the way, I don't believe its true, I am only left wondering how good this team could really be but I'm not going to piss and moan about it. Just going to sit back and enjoy what we have!

Because we have improved and won despite the injuries. You just don't seem to grasp the point. Each week the voters SHOULD vote for the teams for what they' have accomplished up to that week.

It's not about convincing we're better without the injuries, it's we're still good enough to win despite them and that deserves a ranking. That's it. The weekly rankings are like grades. How can you deny the Cards deserve a higher grade when they have won 7 consecutive games against the better teams in the conference?

It's common sense.

 

[PushupMan]

Pretty simple to me, really. Latest bracketology, which is based purely on metrics without any bias (or at least as little bias as is humanly possible), has us as an 8 seed. That’s a ranking of anywhere from 29 to 32. Sounds like the AP poll having us at 30 has it about right.

After 12-52 the last two years, with more than half of those 52 not even being competitive, the name “Louisville” doesn’t give ANY poll voters a reason to rank us highly based on reputation. Call that bias if you want. We’ve got to earn all of that back, one game at a time.

The exciting news for all of us is that we’re on a 7 game winning streak currently, so we’re very much trending in the right direction, and we should begin to be ranked very soon, as long as we keep winning.

 

[TheRealVille]

Pretty simple to me, really. Latest bracketology, which is based purely on metrics without any bias (or at least as little bias as is humanly possible), has us as an 8 seed. That’s a ranking of anywhere from 29 to 32. Sounds like the AP poll having us at 30 has it about right.

After 12-52 the last two years, with more than half of those 52 not even being competitive, the name “Louisville” doesn’t give ANY poll voters a reason to rank us highly based on reputation. Call that bias if you want. We’ve got to earn all of that back, one game at a time.

The exciting news for all of us is that we’re on a 7 game winning streak currently, so we’re very much trending in the right direction, and we should begin to be ranked very soon, as long as we keep winning.

I will call it what it is. It's that simple. Taking into consideration how bad Louisville was the past two seasons is a legitimate metric when voting in the pre-season polls, and before very many games are played. But not now in mid January when Louisville has won 7 games in row and has played one of the toughest schedules.

I could understand if we had beaten mostly cupcakes and bottom dwellers, but that's not even close to being the case. I sit here typing on my phone shaking my head that some of you give excuses for Louisville being judged not for this season but for the seasons before. I mean what's it going to take?
A 8 seed in March when Louisville is 26 and 7?

Why couldn't the shitty KP years not be used for seeding this Louisville team so low? Louisville could lose just two more games and they would still probably be a #4 seed. Remember 2005?

 

[TheRealVille]

Gonzaga lost again last night to Oregon State. A team that has lost to North Texas, Loyola Marymount and Santa Clara.

Who thinks the Zags will still be ranked next week? I suppose it will be due to them being ranked all those years before?

Memphis lost to Temple last night, are they still going to be ranked? Looks to me there's some openings in the top 25.