Addressing the Pitino bashing on here

[zipp]

My apologies, yes it did come off to me that way (that you were a better fan and I should shut up) and I probably read into it a little bit as well. The joys of the internet and lack of face to face communication, lol...

Don't let these guys back you down. There's a core group of haters on this site who try to paint you as one if you don't hate their targets. You've sized up the situation pretty well with respect to one of them--Pitino--and I hope you'll keep coming back. They need more examples of how rational people think...

 

[cardinalrod]

I'm not sure how much you travel. That has NEVER happened to me. Just like no one tells me they stay home from games because of scandal or Pitino.

Some of you guys must be starved for a fight.

Here we go, more fan card checks...

Oh wow. It's never happened to you. I guess that means it hasn't happen to me twice. Strange.

 

[cardsp]

Personally, I'll lose respect for Pitino if he drops his lawsuit...

Pitino was the boss of the program and should have been fired for morality clause for the Sypher incident. He was responsible for assistant coaches actions too, That's how it works when you're the boss. Pitino shouldn't get a pass.

 

[kentuckyshame]

To the OP, I dont have hate for Pitino, but my god man why go to bat for him like this? He embarrassed the hell out of UofL. He won us one Final Four according to the official books now. Was I fine with him taking us to the 2012 and 2013 Final Fours you ask? Of course, i went to both and had a great time, unfortunately both those trips have an asterisk next them according to the NCAA, and I certainly have a problem with that.

You ok with being fooled once, twice, and three times? I’m not. Regardless of what you have convinced yourself of, the Sypher ordeal was embarrassing to our univ....and so was the Powell mess where a Pitino asst arranged for strippers and hookers to entertain prospects....and so was the Jordan Fair and Kenny Johnson messes.

Like i said I dont hate Pitino, but whether you like it or not, a lot of those cherished wins are erased by his lack of control.

I was, am, and will continue to be a UofL fan regardless of pitino, i loved UofL before he did anyways.

 

[kentuckyshame]

Personally, I'll lose respect for Pitino if he drops his lawsuit...

You are certifiable.

 

[nccardfan]

I think without reading 83’s posts word for word, I would just like to sum it up by saying Hickman, Crum, Pitino and now Mack are all part of U of L’s basketball history and if you are a fan, you have to accept the good and the bad with it. We can all wish things worked out differently or stayed the same but we can’t go back and while the discussions can be passionate they’re probably not going to change someone’s opinions.

 

[cardinalrod]

We can all agree on this:

Beat Miami tomorrow @ 6:00pm

 

[83UofLCards83]

I would like to add there would be no Denny without Hickman. IMO he is the true father of UofL basketball. He laid the foundation for the program and helped transition it to the high division 1 level.

Thank you for bringing this up! I honestly thought about using this when responding to CardinalRod's comment. If anyone built everything it was Peck Hickman, he is the father of UofL basketball. Just like Howard Schnellenberger is the father of UofL football. He set the foundation and gave UofL basketball its first taste of success. Without Hickman there's a good chance Crum never comes here, and even if he does he probably leaves when the UCLA job opens up.

The reality is without Hickman there isn't Crum, without Crum there isn't Pitino and without Pitino there isn't Mack. They all have equally built the foundation (well, not Mack yet but he just got here) for UofL basketball. Hickman built the foundation for the program, Crum took the program to the next level and Pitino brought the program back to prominence and upgraded our facilities and conference affiliation.

For all posters, don't get me wrong, I'm not attacking Denny Crum himself, he is a great coach. I'm attacking Denny Crum worshippers who never truly accepted Rick Pitino. Ones like Rod, who nitpick every failing of Pitino while ignoring the fact that Crum had his failings as well. Ones who can't accept that while Crum was a great coach, he left the program in terrible shape. And look, that's not uncommon, a lot of coaches stay longer than they should and end up hurting their program at the end (Crum, Bowden, Paterno, Rupp, etc.). But fans like Rod can't accept that Pitino was responsible for bringing the program back to where it was under Crum in the 80s. That while the Pitino era, ironically like the Crum era, didn't end well, that he did more good than bad. That ultimately he has helped get UofL to where it is now, in a state of the art arena, with great practice facilities, in a great conference. Pitino had a lot of success here that will never be erased (no matter what the NCAA wants) and set up UofL to be successful past his era.

 

[83UofLCards83]

Thank you. I am very aware of the history of the UofL. My remarks were in defense of Denny Crum.

And my remarks are in defense of Rick Pitino. Rick overall did more good than bad and with our facilities, Adidas affiliation and conference affiliation (all of which we wouldn't have without Pitino) he set us up for success after he was gone. And Pitino was truly a victim in all of this as well. Everyone (the university, the fans, the players, Pitino, Jurich) lost because of stupid Andree McGee and Kenny Johnson. That's where the hatred needs to be focused, not on Pitino.

 

[83UofLCards83]

Pitino was the boss of the program and should have been fired for morality clause for the Sypher incident. He was responsible for assistant coaches actions too, That's how it works when you're the boss. Pitino shouldn't get a pass.

Ugh do you know exactly what was in the morality clause? I'm not saying I do but I doubt you know either. A lot of people in this country, myself included, don't consider abortion to be bad. That also means a lot of us would not consider the Sypher incident to be a violation of the morality clause.

I agree he is responsible for the actions of assistant coaches and that is why he was fired. With that said, that doesn't mean you have to aim you hatred towards him. The hatred should be directed at the assistant coaches who went behind Pitino's back and got him fired, not Pitino himself.

You can both agree with Pitino's firing but also be sympathetic towards the fact that Pitino was betrayed by people he trusted.

 

[83UofLCards83]

To the OP, I dont have hate for Pitino, but my god man why go to bat for him like this? He embarrassed the hell out of UofL. He won us one Final Four according to the official books now. Was I fine with him taking us to the 2012 and 2013 Final Fours you ask? Of course, i went to both and had a great time, unfortunately both those trips have an asterisk next them according to the NCAA, and I certainly have a problem with that.

You ok with being fooled once, twice, and three times? I’m not. Regardless of what you have convinced yourself of, the Sypher ordeal was embarrassing to our univ....and so was the Powell mess where a Pitino asst arranged for strippers and hookers to entertain prospects....and so was the Jordan Fair and Kenny Johnson messes.

Like i said I dont hate Pitino, but whether you like it or not, a lot of those cherished wins are erased by his lack of control.

I was, am, and will continue to be a UofL fan regardless of pitino, i loved UofL before he did anyways.

They aren't erased, those wins and championships are only erased if you let them be erased. We know they happened on the court and that the cheating with McGee not only didn't help but actually hurt our recruiting.

UofL will always make the 2012 Final Four and win the 2013 National Championship and nothing will change that. Just like USC is the 2004 National Champions in football. Just like Michigan went to the 1992 and 1993 Final Fours.

 

[kentuckyshame]

Ah, trying to censor stuff you don't like? It's a lot of the Pitino haters who made it political by bringing up all the Sypher stuff and saying he should've been fired because he wanted Sypher to have an abortion. I simply responded to it.

I just would prefer they move it to the political board, i tend to come to the UofL board to speak about things pertaining to our sports programs.

Anyways, the question whether he should’ve been fired following the Sypher ordeal is debatable, but he definately should have been fired over the Powell/Mcgee mess, and you running around acting like he was some innocent victim is laughable. His assts. were out of control and made terrible decisions, just like he made a terrible decision to have sex in a public restaurant. See any connection?

 

[83UofLCards83]

I just would prefer they move it to the political board, i tend to come to the UofL board to speak about things pertaining to our sports programs.

Anyways, the question whether he should’ve been fired following the Sypher ordeal is debatable, but he definately should have been fired over the Powell/Mcgee mess, and you running around acting like he was some innocent victim is laughable. His assts. were out of control and made terrible decisions, just like he made a terrible decision to have sex in a public restaurant. See any connection?

Again I wasn't the one who made it political. Many others have brought up the Sypher incident and indicating that they think he should've been fired because they don't believe in abortion. I'm simply indicating that that viewpoint shows their age as most of us who are younger could care less. And it's iffy at best if it violated any type of morality clause.

You act like all of his assistants were doing this, that's simply not true. Was David Padgett out of control? You had 2 assistant coaches who made a concerted effort to go behind his back. The evidence has even shown that. That's not the same as what you are indicating, which would mean a lack of institutional control.

I guess in many ways I can sympathize with Pitino. Like Pitino I was also betrayed. I had one of my best friends completely betray me and this was someone I thought was of the highest character. So I understand how sometimes someone can be duped by another person. I'm not saying he shouldn't have been fired but we don't need to hate him. That's what we shouldn't be doing!

 

[kentuckyshame]

They aren't erased, those wins and championships are only erased if you let them be erased. We know they happened on the court and that the cheating with McGee not only didn't help but actually hurt our recruiting.

UofL will always make the 2012 Final Four and win the 2013 National Championship and nothing will change that. Just like USC is the 2004 National Champions in football. Just like Michigan went to the 1992 and 1993 Final Fours.

I admire your hope, but that’s just not reality. We as fans will always have to deal with the debate over our vacated wins.

 

[83UofLCards83]

I admire your hope, but that’s just not reality. We as fans will always have to deal with the debate over our vacated wins.

I don't deal with a debate at all. I've worn my 2012 Final Four and 2013 National Championships with pride at basketball games and don't intend on stopping anytime soon. They are wins, no ifs and or buts. Again just like we all know Michigan went to the Final Four in 1992 and 1993, just like we all know USC won a football national title in 2004.

It only goes away if you let it go away. If you yourself don't recognize it. It's not even a debate for me, we won the 2013 National Championship and there's no asterick about it.

I mean come on, none of the players involved even played in the National Championship game.

 

[83UofLCards83]

And just remember this KentuckyShame, if Pitino doesn't come here we aren't even debating this because the UofL basketball program would be irrelevant. We would've hired Eustachy, had a lost 2000s (meaning two consecutive lost decades) and like IU would be irrelevant and still trying to get back.

 

[kentuckyshame]

Again I wasn't the one who made it political. Many others have brought up the Sypher incident and indicating that they think he should've been fired because they don't believe in abortion. I'm simply indicating that that viewpoint shows their age as most of us who are younger could care less. And it's iffy at best if it violated any type of morality clause.

You act like all of his assistants were doing this, that's simply not true. Was David Padgett out of control? You had 2 assistant coaches who made a concerted effort to go behind his back. The evidence has even shown that. That's not the same as what you are indicating, which would mean a lack of institutional control.

I guess in many ways I can sympathize with Pitino. Like Pitino I was also betrayed. I had one of my best friends completely betray me and this was someone I thought was of the highest character. So I understand how sometimes someone can be duped by another person. I'm not saying he shouldn't have been fired but we don't need to hate him. That's what we shouldn't be doing!

I saw one guy say he should have been fired over the abortion, i dont think anyone else made that claim.

Regarding his assts. i should have made myself more clear, Andree Mcgee, Jordan Fair, and Kenny Johnson made decisions that were detrimental to the UofL name, and it just so happened they all made these errors in judgement while working for Pitino. If Pitino knew nothing about this, and im assuming he didnt, then that sucks for him, but the man’s employees tarnished the image of my favorite team on multiple occasions, and that pisses me off.

 

[kentuckyshame]

And just remember this KentuckyShame, if Pitino doesn't come here we aren't even debating this because the UofL basketball program would be irrelevant. We would've hired Eustachy, had a lost 2000s (meaning two consecutive lost decades) and like IU would be irrelevant and still trying to get back.

You are speculating, you have no idea what would have happened if Pitino had never came here. Ive heard people make the mistake before that Eustachy was Jurich’s #2 guy, but he wasnt, he was just on the list.
Regardless, the fact is absolutely no one knows what would have happened if Pitino never came here.

 

[83UofLCards83]

You are speculating, you have no idea what would have happened if Pitino had never came here. Ive heard people make the mistake before that Eustachy was Jurich’s #2 guy, but he wasnt, he was just on the list.
Regardless, the fact is absolutely no one knows what would have happened if Pitino never came here.

I can't confirm this but I thought I remember Jurich even coming out and saying that if Pitino didn't accept the job he was going after Eustachy and Eustachy would've accepted. I'm pretty confident in that and we all know how Eustachy would've ended up. Easily the basketball version of Kragthorpe except a lot worse. It would've taken the program years to get over Eustachy and at that point it would've equaled a lost decade.

 

[kentuckyshame]

I can't confirm this but I thought I remember Jurich even coming out and saying that if Pitino didn't accept the job he was going after Eustachy and Eustachy would've accepted. I'm pretty confident in that and we all know how Eustachy would've ended up. Easily the basketball version of Kragthorpe except a lot worse. It would've taken the program years to get over Eustachy and at that point it would've equaled a lost decade.

Jurich never said he was going after Larry E if Pitino didnt accept, TJ got his guy, he never showed his cards, hell he usually had his guy before we knew the previous coach was fired. Larry E was thrown around by media and fans because he was having succes at the time.
Hypothetical, let’s say Larry E got the job instead of Pitino, are you telling me he could have done worse than a public affair, strippergate, and adidasgate? He may have not ever taken us to the 2013 national championship, but then again we wouldnt have suffered the embarrassment of getting the trophy taken out of the Yum Center where it used to sit.

My main point is no one knows what would have happened had we not got Pitino. Either way does it really matter? Whats done is done.

 

[83UofLCards83]

Larry Eustachy's wonderful qualities:

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-ba...tachy-stepping-colorado-state-rams-head-coach

http://articles.latimes.com/2004/dec/20/sports/sp-eustachy20

Hmmm, so let's see here, alcoholism, addiction (it was rumored he was into illegal substances) and verbally abusing players. Yeah, I would say Larry Eustachy was significantly worse in the character department than Rick Pitino.

Abortion, giving a few recruits a stripper show and giving a player money vs. Verbal Abuse, Alcoholism and other Addictions. Yeah I think I'll take the first set any day of the week.

 

[kentuckyshame]

Larry Eustachy's wonderful qualities:

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-ba...tachy-stepping-colorado-state-rams-head-coach

http://articles.latimes.com/2004/dec/20/sports/sp-eustachy20

Hmmm, so let's see here, alcoholism, addiction (it was rumored he was into illegal substances) and verbally abusing players. Yeah, I would say Larry Eustachy was significantly worse in the character department than Rick Pitino.

Abortion, giving a few recruits a stripper show and giving a player money vs. Verbal Abuse, Alcoholism and other Addictions. Yeah I think I'll take the first set any day of the week.

So much for entertaining bogus hypotheticals. Wow. So abortion good, alcohol bad...got it.

 

[83UofLCards83]

So much for entertaining bogus hypotheticals. Wow. So abortion good, alcohol bad...got it.

Considering what people do when they're alcoholics yeah. I had a friend of mine who was an alcoholic, he truly became a different person when he was drunk. Really destroyed his family dynamic and was damn lucky he never killed anyone. Guessing Larry Eustachy was lucky as well since alcoholics almost always drive drunk and put others in danger.

And what parent wouldn't want to send their kid to a coach who is going to verbally abuse him and create a culture of fear?

I'm not saying either are great, but yeah I'll take a coach who's made an honest mistake having an affair resulting in an abortion over a coach who's an alcoholic any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

 

[83UofLCards83]

The one thing I also find funny and almost forgot to mention. A lot of people on here criticize (and some even wanted him fired) Pitino for the whole Sypher affair and abortion, yet these same individuals don't criticize Crum for being divorced TWICE! And from I've heard one time it was because he was having an affair. So again why the double standard?

 

[kentuckyshame]

Considering what people do when they're alcoholics yeah. I had a friend of mine who was an alcoholic, he truly became a different person when he was drunk. Really destroyed his family dynamic and was damn lucky he never killed anyone. Guessing Larry Eustachy was lucky as well since alcoholics almost always drive drunk and put others in danger.

And what parent wouldn't want to send their kid to a coach who is going to verbally abuse him and create a culture of fear?

I'm not saying either are great, but yeah I'll take a coach who's made an honest mistake having an affair resulting in an abortion over a coach who's an alcoholic any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

Hey man look, alcoholism is a terrible, terrible thing, but the fact that you are drawing comparisons to alcoholism and abortion to me is just mind boggling. Dont take it personal if I dont answer your posts anymore.

 

[83UofLCards83]

Hey man look, alcoholism is a terrible, terrible thing, but the fact that you are drawing comparisons to alcoholism and abortion to me is just mind boggling. Dont take it personal if I dont answer your posts anymore.

No worries, but tell all the relatives of people killed by drunk drivers that alcoholism isn't worse than abortion. Abortion is a choice and it's the right of the mother. Alcoholism and drunk driving is the most extreme form of selfishness.

 

[zipp]

Pitino was the boss of the program and should have been fired for morality clause for the Sypher incident. He was responsible for assistant coaches actions too, That's how it works when you're the boss. Pitino shouldn't get a pass.

Find that in his contract, and you've made your point. Otherwise, you haven't...

 

[JASUN74]

And it's clear to me that you're a hypocrite that had no problem with Pitino when he was winning a National Title and taking us to Final Fours. Yet now you feel the need to trash him over and over.

And it's clear to me that you are incapable of understanding that bashing Pitino does nothing to help UofL but can hurt UofL. If you're such a UofL fan why do something that can only hurt the university and the basketball program?

Honestly, fans like you don't deserve good programs.

Aren’t you the same guy, a few years ago I think, that wrote a page long book about how it’s so hard for you, but you’re going to have to cut ties and boycott all things Louisville, including your money?? I’m a Ky fan, but I don’t want Louisville to be bad or anything!!

But dude you’re on a very high horse here calling people out and acting like you’re a good fan! Your not. I’m my book they could do without you!! I mean you went on and on about how you and some friends from Florida are boycotting the Cardinals, and they’re going to be losing your all’s 80,000 dollars. Like they need your money.

I hardly ever post here, but I’ve read here a few times and there’s some very good fans here that love their team. You kids trying to tell older people they don’t know something is stupid!! They know what They know, and they also know Everything that you know!! You’ve already admitted you don’t remember some stuff, so how in the world do you have a say in it?

Anyway, I apologize to everyone else if I’m over stepping my boundaries here, but this guy is a Know it all, who doesn’t know shiiit! I’m 100% sure you don’t need me to say anything for you guys, but I just want to remind him that he jumped off the train and now is acting like he has an opinion and it is worth something!! It’s not worth anything! Lol.

To everyone else, have a great evening and good luck the rest of the season!

 

[CardsFirst]

OP’s position is beyond ridiculous. Lots of words and pointing out only the records for Denny in the 90’s. I guess history didn’t begin until he recognized it did. And what history for Pitino. It’s all gone. I was a supporter up until he embarrassed the University. And yes it was his program so he was responsible. Final 4 gone, NC gone. He put a black mark on our program that won’t go away. And he tries to build up Pitino by going after the guy that put us on the map. Laughable. Dude you have no clue...lots of words, but pure BS.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

I hope you'll keep coming back. ..

I don't have a dog in the fight, it's always nice to read differing opinions.

If he's going to keep coming back, it appears it will need to be under a new screen name, I clicked on his profile and it's unavailable. It appears your position aligns with a guy getting banned. On a board that doesn't ban people.

 

[JASUN74]

OP’s position is beyond ridiculous. Lots of words and pointing out only the records for Denny in the 90’s. I guess history didn’t begin until he recognized it did. And what history for Pitino. It’s all gone. I was a supporter up until he embarrassed the University. And yes it was his program so he was responsible. Final 4 gone, NC gone. He put a black mark on our program that won’t go away. And he tries to build up Pitino by going after the guy that put us on the map. Laughable. Dude you have no clue...lots of words, but pure BS.

I come really close to not saying anything, lol, but man he was killing me! No respect at all!! You guys are in great shape now and will back to the good old days quick!! Quicker than I thought actually. Lol. You have a good one Cardsfirst!

 

[Steelers2012]

I don't have a dog in the fight, it's always nice to read differing opinions.

If he's going to keep coming back, it appears it will need to be under a new screen name, I clicked on his profile and it's unavailable. It appears your position aligns with a guy getting banned. On a board that doesn't ban people.

Just for the record, the OP started another thread insisting on being banned, and someone obliged him. So, to my knowledge anyways, he wasn't banned for anything other than by his own request. All in all a pretty bizarre thread and turn of events.

 

[CardsFirst]

Could have been Pitino defending himself? Who knows? Lol

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

Just for the record, the OP started another thread insisting on being banned, and someone obliged him. So, to my knowledge anyways, he wasn't banned for anything other than by his own request. All in all a pretty bizarre thread and turn of events.

Fair enough! That is strange - if he's asking for a ban he's not playing with a full deck, for the record. You guys allow lots of wiggle room - so it was surprising to see him tossed. Didn't think he really did anything ban worthy in this one, but didn't look closely.

 

[Cue Card]

Fair enough! That is strange - if he's asking for a ban he's not playing with a full deck, for the record. You guys allow lots of wiggle room - so it was surprising to see him tossed. Didn't think he really did anything ban worthy in this one, but didn't look closely.

Super weird for sure. He actually made a few valid points too IMO, but then went sideways. Just bizarre stuff.

 

[cardinalrod]

Classic

 

[cardsp]

Find that in his contract, and you've made your point. Otherwise, you haven't...

This is contract:
Disparaging media publicity of a material nature that damages the good name and reputation of Employer or University, if such publicity is caused by Employee's willful misconduct that could objectively be anticipated to bring Employee into public disrepute or scandal, or which tends to greatly offend the public, or any class thereof on the basis of invidious distinction.

 

[kentuckyshame]

This is contract:
Disparaging media publicity of a material nature that damages the good name and reputation of Employer or University, if such publicity is caused by Employee's willful misconduct that could objectively be anticipated to bring Employee into public disrepute or scandal, or which tends to greatly offend the public, or any class thereof on the basis of invidious distinction.

After reading this, It’s safe to say we could have fired him with cause over the Sypher scandal.

 

[PervisTheGreat]

The bottom line to me is RP’s situation is a lot like mine. I manage many people daily, but if my people cause the isht to hit the fan the CEO calls me. If I can’t correct the situation or maybe I had my head in my ass, as Harry Truman said, the buck stops here.
I’m a big Denny Crum fan. I’ve heard him speak and was lucky enough to meet him and he, by all accounts, is a fine ambassador to UofL. I don’t hate RP but do thoroughly dislike the stink(s) he left on the university.
That being said, the OP must be on the pipe. I see no other explanation.

 

[PRPclass76]

Let's see I have never banged a skank on an Italian restaurant table and testified in federal court to getting off in less than 15 seconds. Never been involved in an abortion. Hmm, you sure set the bar low for hypocrisy there. Denny's first 15 years kicked rickie's ass.Because you weren't around doesn't mean they didn't happen, they did. They are part of history and not yours and zip's lame revisionist history sort. So let me help your ignorant self with the facts: 1972, Final Four..1975 Final Four, 1 point loss to all time NC greatest champs UCLA. 1980 NC that has not been withdrawn. Still in rafters. 1982 Final Four, 1983 Final Four, 1986 NC still in rafters. We WERE the program of the 80's. Why is it rick Pitino himself talked often about how great that era in UL basketball was but you can't? It's been over4 hours dude, go to the E.R.