A crazy re-alignment idea

[LeFors4Ever]

Ok. So we’re at the point that we can’t really get out of our deal with ESPN or the ACC. Adding teams risks destroying the league. But doing nothing really hurts the league financially.

ESPN is in a weird spot now. They have some money to blow now that they didn’t spend all their money on Big Ten games. But, they have an opening and need to fill slots. The Big 12 and PAC-12 are in a bad spot right now too. My thought is let’s combine our TV rights for football

So here is the points

1. There are 36 teams in the ACC, Big12, and Pac12 that aren’t moving to the SEC ACC. Combine all those teams to form an actual alliance just for football only. Conferences aren’t going away.

2. The 3 conferences can still operate for basketball and other sports, but combine their right just for football. That way the travel and such are just fine for those sports, but you have an actual national league for football.

3. The 36 teams are split into 6 different 6 team divisions that are split up by region and rivalries. 5 division games every year and 4 games out of division. Probably you can have a permanent rival or 2.

4. At the end of the year, the two highest rated teams play in a conference championship type game that would make it comparable to a Big Ten and SEC game where the winner deserves a playoff berth.

5. you also could keep ND in the loop with the same agreement as now. Independent, but still contribute to the value of our TV deal with the games our league would host

6. ESPN and ABC already have a lot of slots to fill. With 3 conferences, you can add other networks to the deal to increase the value. Like say ABC, ESPN, ESPN2, ACCN, ESPN+ already get so many games, but then add in Turner Sports that has TBS and TNT and have 0 Football properties, so they could spend a whole lot. The Big Ten showed multiple networks can work.

7. To increase it even more, negotiate with Apple and Amazon too. They’re in California and want the PAC-12 to succeed. They’ll overpay for some rights, add in the ACC and Big 12 schools and it’s way more valuable.

8. This then becomes maybe the most marketable league for TV rights? Coast to coast games from noon eastern to late night on the West coast. Florida State & Miami gives you Florida games. All the Texas schools will be big. California will be big. A rights deal that has Clemson, Florida State, Miami, Oregon, Washington, Stanford, Baylor, Ok State, and several Notre Dame games. Good football all day.

9. So then with more networks you can have a national game on TBS or TNT on Thursday. ESPN/ABC will give us plenty of coverage as now they can market the teams they want. It will keep the leagues together for smaller sports.

10. Below are the divisions I would have

Pacific: Oregon, Washington, Stanford, Oregon State, Washington State, Cal

Mountain: Utah, Arizona, BYU, Arizona State, Colorado, Texas Tech

Southern: Baylor, Ok State, Houston, TCU, Kansas, Kansas State

Atlantic: FSU, Clemson, Miami, UCF, Ga Tech, UVA

Coastal: UNC, NC State, Duke, Wake, BC, Syracuse

MidWest: Louisville, WVU, Cincy, Pitt, Iowa State, Virginia Tech

Just think that now you can have better matchups that are more regional. You can pick the 2 best teams out of that group of 36 and the winner gets a playoff berth. Think of these matchups?

You combine the rights together, it brings everyone up. It also keeps college sports together.

I mean think for us, we’d get yearly games with WVU, Cincy, Pitt, & Va Tech. That’s just a much better regional set of rivals. Much more on the line for bragging rights for the division title.

But then it’s not like we don’t get rotating games and get Clemson, FSU, Miami, Oregon, Stanford, Washington, Baylor, OK State.

For an alliance to work, you have to have everyone work together. Do it in writing.

The Big12 and PAC 12 aren’t legit leagues and the ACC needs more money.

36 team getting ABC/ESPN networks, TBS/TNT, and maybe CBS may want a noon kick-off to go with their 330 Big Ten game? Then ESPN+ and Amazon paying big money for streaming.

This is probably impossible but it’s the kind of thinking that the ACC and Pac12 conferences need to do or face extinction.

 

[Knucklehank1]

The Big Ten commissioner said today that they are expanding further. The strong belief is that Oregon, Washington, Stanford and Cal are next. And I think wholesale changes like that could increase the odds that GOR are challenged at which point Clemson, FSU, Miami and UNC will bolt to SEC.

 

[LeFors4Ever]

The Big Ten commissioner said today that they are expanding further. The strong belief is that Oregon, Washington, Stanford and Cal are next. And I think wholesale changes like that could increase the odds that GOR are challenged at which point Clemson, FSU, Miami and UNC will bolt to SEC.

Basically they’re going after Amazon/Apple money for another streaming deal for the West Coast.

 

[Thecycle27]

The Big Ten is going to get Stanford and Notre Dame. Make sense to get Oregon and Washington but may be forced to take Cal. I think they have to move pretty soon because of how far out scheduling goes out. I would say next year.

Money talks ESPN-SEC are going to try to break up the ACC GOR. The only way the SEC can expand is in the ACC. I know everyone wants the ACC to do something but their hands are tied. If they make any changes to the GOR the SEC is going to take whomever they want.

We will see but I doubt the ACC stays intact.

I think you may see exactly what you are suggesting with the remaining schools minus Clemson, FSU, Miami, and North Carolina, and maybe Virginia/Virginia Tech.

 

[beantowncard]

Lost me at point 4. I don’t care about “ratings” to determine title game participants. We don’t need any more opinions deciding things. The other problem with that idea is, which conference administrators go away? What about bowl tie-ins? The CFP is also a complication.
Here’s a really radical idea: no conferences. All power 5 as independents, who negotiate as one large group for the rights to all P5 games. A 16 team playoff would decide the champion. Participants chosen by objective criteria known to all before the season starts, with no “committees” deciding anything.

 

[LeFors4Ever]

Lost me at point 4. I don’t care about “ratings” to determine title game participants. We don’t need any more opinions deciding things. The other problem with that idea is, which conference administrators go away? What about bowl tie-ins? The CFP is also a complication.
Here’s a really radical idea: no conferences. All power 5 as independents, who negotiate as one large group for the rights to all P5 games. A 16 team playoff would decide the champion. Participants chosen by objective criteria known to all before the season starts, with no “committees” deciding anything.

You may not care. I may not care. But recruits care. TV Networks care. That’s where the big TV money comes from. That’s what drives it all.

It’s either fight to stay in or get left behind. Clemson and the others don’t want to go to the SEC if at all possible. But? If revenue creates a gap and exposure leads to a loss of recruits? Then they’ll leave.

 

[Mayoman]

I like your idea LF4E.

Another way could be 4, 9 team team divisions (4x9=36) too. With a 4 team playoff to determine the champ. Division champs match up to determine League champ on the field.

How would you break down a 4 league divisional set up vs the 6? Could be an interesting exercise too.

I do like your Midwest Division of teams except Iowa St..... but would change the name to Mideast...makes more geographical sense to me. Also could bring back some old UofL rivals in Cinn, WVU, and Pitt to the schedule.

Add FSU, Miami and Ga Tech or Clemson to get to 9 for Mideast division and I would really like that yearly IC schedule.

What say you guys???

 

[Thecycle27]

The gap the Big Ten and SEC are creating will allow them to pay players. The next domino could be players being deemed employees. I don’t think SEC and Big Ten are doing a money grab I think they believe athletes will become employees. They are raising funds to cover that cost.

I don’t see any scenario where the current ACC or a newer version closes the revenue gap.

The key is the creation of the playoff. As long as your team has access to the playoff college football is going to OK. It will still be dominated by a few.

 

[2330859]

I still believe the ACC is not going away, as it’s nucleus (Duke, UNC, NCST, WF and to a lesser degree UVA) remain united and bound to one another based on so many other considerations. It is entirely possible that Clemson, Miami and FSU might be lured away, despite the reality that any other conference affiliation would never include their participation in the NC conversation. In contrast, GT, Pitt, VT, Louisville, BC and Syracuse have no reason to leave the ACC, and the attraction to WVU, Rutgers, Maryland and others to align with the ACC will insure the continuation of the conference.

A FOOTBALL ONLY affiliation will only work as long as the TV ratings command interest from both viewers and sponsors. At some point the same financial attractions that prompted this conference realignment, will begin to show the majority of those members failing to bring sufficient value, as the “usual suspects” will dominate as they traditionally have for decades. That majority of member schools will become nothing more than “props” and the TV ratings will decline when competing for audience against the more meaningful contests.

The same audience malaise that occurs when GT is playing for example Miami; will be no less attractive for example Miami, or Clemson or FSU would be playing for example a Northwestern, IU, or Rutgers. There are only a finite number of Saturday games that can command the level of TV ratings that ESPN, ABC, NBC, etc can justify airing.

Bottom line is there will never be the perfect scenario for Super Conference Alignment, as the schools that emphasize football (majority of SEC, and OSU, ND, Oklahoma, Texas, etc) will always command attention, but the majority of these other schools will lose their appeal over time and will be faced with remaining relevant.

 

[Knucklehank1]

I still believe the ACC is not going away, as it’s nucleus (Duke, UNC, NCST, WF and to a lesser degree UVA) remain united and bound to one another based on so many other considerations. It is entirely possible that Clemson, Miami and FSU might be lured away, despite the reality that any other conference affiliation would never include their participation in the NC conversation. In contrast, GT, Pitt, VT, Louisville, BC and Syracuse have no reason to leave the ACC, and the attraction to WVU, Rutgers, Maryland and others to align with the ACC will insure the continuation of the conference.

A FOOTBALL ONLY affiliation will only work as long as the TV ratings command interest from both viewers and sponsors. At some point the same financial attractions that prompted this conference realignment, will begin to show the majority of those members failing to bring sufficient value, as the “usual suspects” will dominate as they traditionally have for decades. That majority of member schools will become nothing more than “props” and the TV ratings will decline when competing for audience against the more meaningful contests.

The same audience malaise that occurs when GT is playing for example Miami; will be no less attractive for example Miami, or Clemson or FSU would be playing for example a Northwestern, IU, or Rutgers. There are only a finite number of Saturday games that can command the level of TV ratings that ESPN, ABC, NBC, etc can justify airing.

Bottom line is there will never be the perfect scenario for Super Conference Alignment, as the schools that emphasize football (majority of SEC, and OSU, ND, Oklahoma, Texas, etc) will always command attention, but the majority of these other schools will lose their appeal over time and will be faced with remaining relevant.

Rutgers and Maryland have a less than 0% chance of leaving the Big 10. The university administration is salivating at the revenue the conference generates. Absolutely no way they would walk away from that.

Every one of those schools you mentioned would bolt to the SEC or Big 10 in a heartbeat if there weren’t significant legal hurdles to overcome. The money is what matters to those making decisions. Follow the $$$.

 

[Knucklehank1]

The one thing the reconstituted Big Ten and SEC need to be concerned about, especially if they essentially become professional leagues, would be the NFL deciding that they no longer want to cede Saturday’s to college football. The NFL owners could very easily further line their pockets if they would move some inventory to Saturdays. It would also allow the NFL to expand, perhaps even internationally.

 

[Thecycle27]

I don’t think 40 teams is enough inventory to produce watchable games at the various time slots. Big Ten is going to have 3:30-7:00 games that no one will watch by week 6.

ESPN needs the ACC-Big 12-PAC 12 that is the rub. The problem for the ACC ESPN wants the brand names in the SEC. They don’t want to lose Miami-UNC-Virginia to Big 10. It really is in the best interest of ESPN to keep the ACC intact.

 

[Rollem Cards]

The funny, and to me it will be funny, part is that the teams that have been chasing the B1G and $EC elites…will be chasing that many more teams.

They’ll just fall another 2-3 spots.

But they’ll be in a mega conference making mega money.

I have to wonder what our fans would think if we were stuck in 7-5, 6-6 land forever.

The “school” will be rolling money, but at $65-$70 a pop will we get 50k or 40k to come out?

I think we know that answer today.

“More” money is not going to make anybody better than those who are better now. THEY will be getting that much more money too. And the richest will eventually figure out how to “win” the NIL battles that everybody “thinks” will level the field.

I believe the main thought at many schools will be “Man…we suck worse than before”.

We absolutely need to start making big waves in the FB world with big crowds IF we are going to make the cut AND be competitive.

 

[2330859]

Knucklehead:

The revenue you arre describing is solid right now, but there are no assurances that income is secure, particularly if the TV ratings fail to sustain over time.

Competition between TV, and Cable Providers is a fluid situation, and viewer attraction between multiple regional rival games on a Saturday could easily generate more interest than a single game between for example an Ohio State and UCLA.

The rapid changes that are occurring with Entertainment and News, is a pretty fair indication as to how viewer participation can change rather quickly. Right now ESPN is driving a lot of these affiliations, but watch out for Apple and others to flex their muscle.

 

[LeFors4Ever]

The one thing the reconstituted Big Ten and SEC need to be concerned about, especially if they essentially become professional leagues, would be the NFL deciding that they no longer want to cede Saturday’s to college football. The NFL owners could very easily further line their pockets if they would move some inventory to Saturdays. It would also allow the NFL to expand, perhaps even internationally.

Their big money comes from Sunday afternoon football. Sunday night is their king. Football can play on many other days and do well but putting games on Saturday would be a bad business decision.

The NFL doesn’t do many games on Saturday because it’s just not good business. Their top game is on Sunday night and the majority of their games are on Sunday afternoon. Then add in Monday/Thursday. The only way it could be successful is if they had a bunch of Saturday games…which would hurt their Sunday window.

You’d only get crappy games like Lions/Jaguars on a Saturday tbh.

Also, the NFL benefits greatly from college. They don’t have to pay for player development. NCAA is a 4-5 year training center that they don’t have to pay for. It gives them hours of scouting on film in high leverage situations. It creates stars like Lamar who can draw ratings and sell jerseys on day 1.

 

[KozmasAgain]

I agree that most teams that are doormats in the SEC or B1G would never leave because the payout is to big. However, I can see a situation where certain schools are kicked out because they aren’t producing so they are nothing but dead weight.

 

[Knucklehank1]

Their big money comes from Sunday afternoon football. Sunday night is their king. Football can play on many other days and do well but putting games on Saturday would be a bad business decision.

The NFL doesn’t do many games on Saturday because it’s just not good business. Their top game is on Sunday night and the majority of their games are on Sunday afternoon. Then add in Monday/Thursday. The only way it could be successful is if they had a bunch of Saturday games…which would hurt their Sunday window.

You’d only get crappy games like Lions/Jaguars on a Saturday tbh.

Also, the NFL benefits greatly from college. They don’t have to pay for player development. NCAA is a 4-5 year training center that they don’t have to pay for. It gives them hours of scouting on film in high leverage situations. It creates stars like Lamar who can draw ratings and sell jerseys on day 1.

The NIL deals just started and some guys are making 6 or 7 figures. If the TV contracts get so explosive that schools are paying legit money along with the NIL deals, then college starts looking a little less like a training ground and a little more like competition. At the end of the day the NFL will devour anything that looks like competition.

 

[LeFors4Ever]

The NIL deals just started and some guys are making 6 or 7 figures. If the TV contracts get so explosive that schools are paying legit money along with the NIL deals, then college starts looking a little less like a training ground and a little more like competition. At the end of the day the NFL will devour anything that looks like competition.

But it’s not competition to them, at all.

It’s a training ground because the NFL requires a player to be 3 years out of high school. Most of the time you’ll have 22-23 year olds that have hit their growth spurts and have put on the weight/muscle needed. You’ll know what they are and can draft a lot of instant impact guys.

College also is a good judge of the character and work ethic. You have to train to get better. You can’t just say you were a 5 star in high school and assume it’s gonna get you drafted.

It also makes them stay academically eligible and out of trouble. You can get a good idea about who is mature enough after 3 years. You’ll also get guys that are better educated.

The NFL is the best league in part because of NCAA football. You’re getting rookies who have developed quite a bit in college and know how to play the game. You get guys with more education and training than say the NBA. Then on the field it’s a product with great talent that’s been trained very well.

 

[Knucklehank1]

But it’s not competition to them, at all.

It’s a training ground because the NFL requires a player to be 3 years out of high school. Most of the time you’ll have 22-23 year olds that have hit their growth spurts and have put on the weight/muscle needed. You’ll know what they are and can draft a lot of instant impact guys.

College also is a good judge of the character and work ethic. You have to train to get better. You can’t just say you were a 5 star in high school and assume it’s gonna get you drafted.

It also makes them stay academically eligible and out of trouble. You can get a good idea about who is mature enough after 3 years. You’ll also get guys that are better educated.

The NFL is the best league in part because of NCAA football. You’re getting rookies who have developed quite a bit in college and know how to play the game. You get guys with more education and training than say the NBA. Then on the field it’s a product with great talent that’s been trained very well.

Agree completely with what you wrote. However I think college football and basketball in 10 years will potentially look nothing like what it is now. The NFL would prefer college football stay the way it is. But the Big 10 and SEC are pushing the envelope and that envelope is full of money.

 

[2330859]

It will not even take 10 years for the landscape to change,