Why I don't believe Pitino

[Kratz]

Blast away at me all that you want, but I DO NOT believe Pitino when he says that he had no idea anything was going on in Minardi Hall.

The reason is simple: He's always prided himself on being a micro manager of the team. He keeps tabs on all the players all the time. We've seen and heard story after story of him getting involved with the team and players, both good and bad.

We've seen plenty of the bad. How many times has he disciplined/suspended/kicked a player off the team? He'll tell you every time they miss curfew and get in trouble for it.

We've seen the good from knowing all the things about Sivas father to simple things like mentioning Kyle Kurics girlfriend.

If he knows his team this closely as he's claimed (and proven) that he has, how could he all of a sudden stand up in front of everyone and say he had no idea they were shuffling women in and out of Minardi Hall for 4 straight years? He knew everytime someone missed curfew, but missed dancers?

Sorry, doesn't add up in my mind. Like I said, blast away at me, call me a UK fan, but in the end you can't honestly say that I've not made a very valid point.

 

[jalovell23]

Blast away at me all that you want, but I DO NOT believe Pitino when he says that he had no idea anything was going on in Minardi Hall.

The reason is simple: He's always prided himself on being a micro manager of the team. He keeps tabs on all the players all the time. We've seen and heard story after story of him getting involved with the team and players, both good and bad.

We've seen plenty of the bad. How many times has he disciplined/suspended/kicked a player off the team? He'll tell you every time they miss curfew and get in trouble for it.

We've seen the good from knowing all the things about Sivas father to simple things like mentioning Kyle Kurics girlfriend.

If he knows his team this closely as he's claimed (and proven) that he has, how could he all of a sudden stand up in front of everyone and say he had no idea they were shuffling women in and out of Minardi Hall for 4 straight years? He knew everytime someone missed curfew, but missed dancers?

Sorry, doesn't add up in my mind. Like I said, blast away at me, call me a UK fan, but in the end you can't honestly say that I've not made a very valid point.

 

[jalovell23]

I just want to know if there is any hard proof to any of these accusations. So far there is no video tape, no money documentation, no hard evidence. Players are saying that there were girls there, ...... is that enough to evidence to get a school in trouble.

 

[PHCARD]

Go CARDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[nccardfan]

Kratz,

He might have micromanaged in his past but that is one of the aspects that has changed. He's learned to put more trust in his support staff, maybe to a fault. That's why he surrounds himself with former players. However no matter how well we know someone we don't know all their secrets. Plus that's one of the things of getting older. You can't do all the things you used to do.

 

[cuzimacardfan]

Two things... We don't know the details of what went on for the last four years so if we are talking a couple of instances, if any, then I can see how it can be missed (and even the worst micromanagers have things happen under their noses... Even if the acts were rampant).

Also, I think for Pitino personally the Sypher deal had to be worse and more embarrassing than this. And he could have just paid her and kept her quiet. Doesn't make sense to me that he was so open about putting that out there, when he could have easily covered it up, and then lie about this.

 

[Cue Card]

What valid point did you make Kratz? Does Pitino live in Minardi Hall? Is he with his players 24x7? I don't think so. He has a life outside of basketball and I'm fairly comfortable saying he lives it. He might have known about this IF it turns out to be true. I don't know one way or the other right now but you haven't made any type of valid point just by saying Pitino micro manages his program. That makes no difference. If this went on behind his back then it did. He isn't with all the players and coaches ALL the time. He can't be.

 

[Kratz]

Let me clarify some: I'm not saying that ALL the accusations are true. Don't know anything about money, etc. What we do know is that it's being confirmed that there were strippers in the dorms, so I'm accepting that as fact.

Pitino claims he knew nothing about any of it. With his micro managing style, the embarrassment of the Sypher situation, the bad juju of Chris Jones just this past season, you'd think that Pitino would be keeping a VERY close eye on such situations possibly becoming an issue again. As I said, we've all seen how close he stays in with the players. He's proud of the fact that he's close to them. He's proudly proclaims that he runs a tight ship and keeps an eye on everything. His record of punishment, suspensions and kids being kicked off the team over the years backs up those claims on his part. Over the years how many times have we heard '_____________ is suspended for two games for missing curfew"? He knows when they come and go, and his disciplinary record proves it.

Now he's claiming he had no idea that strippers/dancers have been coming into Minardi Hall for 4 years. If he's so in touch with what the players are doing, how could he not know this?

 

[Cue Card]

I can't answer that. I can only guess and none of my guesses are good. I'm just going to stay as neutral on this as I can and accept whatever the outcome is. It won't change a thing as far as my loyalty to the program goes. I'm L1C4 no matter what.

 

[kyjeff1]

I think it's very simple actually. When a coach says he keeps close tabs on his players and knows what their every move is he isn't doing all that himself. That's impossible. Nobody can do that. Coaches have so many appointments and recruiting trips to take that there is no way they can be in 5 different places at one time. These players don't always travel in a big group like an amoeba. It appears to me that McGee took advantage of this. He had to have been the one that was in charge of monitoring these players in the dorm at night.
So yes, it's possible RP did not know about this and it wouldn't be that hard to hide it from him simply because the assistant coach that was in charge of keeping the house clean was the one placing the dirt.
So basically RP shouldn't be saying "I" keep close tabs on my players, he should be saying "we".

 

[cuzimacardfan]

With his micro managing style, the embarrassment of the Sypher situation, the bad juju of Chris Jones just this past season

You mentioned Chris Jones which happened last season. Everybody knows that he was on a short leash. Even still CJ snuck out to go to a party, which violated what the coach wanted him to do. The reason coach found out? The girl went to the police. If there were no allegations CJ would have gotten away with breaking curfew and would have still been on the team without Pitino knowing.

Being a micromanager doesn't make a person all knowing. Maybe Pitino is in on the shadiness or maybe he isn't but the fact that he has control and is a micromanager in and of itself doesn't confirm that he knew anything.

 

[Dore95]

But the allegations are not that there were some strippers in the dorm a couple of times on random nights. I agree that a coach can't know everything and might not know about something like that. The allegations here are that there were in effect organized bachelor parties for recruits. If there is some truth to that and Pitino didn't know he was either: (1) willfully ignorant of what was going on with recruits to the point he didn't care to know; or (2) betrayed by coaches and current players who were trying to hide it from him. One thing that troubles me is the book alleges that "good guys" like Russ and Siva were at some of these parties with recruits. If that is true, why wouldn't they have told Pitino or some other coach? Bottom line, IMO this stuff is either totally untrue or it was sanctioned by the coaching staff, maybe not by Pitino but by others than just McGee.

 

[Sec221]

But the allegations are not that there were some strippers in the dorm a couple of times on random nights. I agree that a coach can't know everything and might not know about something like that. The allegations here are that there were in effect organized bachelor parties for recruits. If there is some truth to that and Pitino didn't know he was either: (1) willfully ignorant of what was going on with recruits to the point he didn't care to know; or (2) betrayed by coaches and current players who were trying to hide it from him. One thing that troubles me is the book alleges that "good guys" like Russ and Siva were at some of these parties with recruits. If that is true, why wouldn't they have told Pitino or some other coach? Bottom line, IMO this stuff is either totally untrue or it was sanctioned by the coaching staff, maybe not by Pitino but by others than just McGee.

Totally agree. Way too much activity to have gone on without some form of collaboration. Someone would have taken notice given the number of occurrences.

 

[Rockfly78]

Totally agree. Way too much activity to have gone on without some form of collaboration. Someone would have taken notice given the number of occurrences.

I don't think Pitino new. I think that he is smart and if he got an inkling that this may of been going on then he would've gracefully arranged for Andre McGee to except another job at another school sooner. I guess you could argue that this is exactly what happened but there's no way we will ever know. I think the most telling thing in this whole situation was the press conference on day one. The University knew about all of this for a month and had a month to investigate. They have denied nothing. If the claims were baseless then I think the university would have hit hard at it denying it.

 

[Sec221]

I don't think Pitino new. I think that he is smart and if he got an inkling that this may of been going on then he would've gracefully arranged for Andre McGee to except another job at another school sooner. I guess you could argue that this is exactly what happened but there's no way we will ever know. I think the most telling thing in this whole situation was the press conference on day one. The University knew about all of this for a month and had a month to investigate. They have denied nothing. If the claims were baseless then I think the university would have hit hard at it denying it.

I think they focused on the NCAA thing first and just ran out of time while hunting for more information:

A couple things needed to be added. But it was ready to go, and then we had a meeting Friday with Chuck Smrt and the compliance officer from U of L. And, among other things, they said -- because they wanted more information -- 'Well,' Chuck said, 'we hear that The Courier-Journal might be doing something. And we hear that Sports Illustrated might be doing something.'

http://www.courier-journal.com/stor...coauthor-of-breaking-cardinal-rules/73440524/

 

[kozmas]

I disagree with you on the fact that CRP knew about this, as a matter of fact I think most of your post is made up of your opinion and not facts. If CRP knew about this he would have handled this the same way he handled Chris Jones, Chane Behanan and Kevin Ware.
Andre McGhee would have been done immediately and this would not have grown into the issue it is.

 

[KerryRhodes]

I'll piggyback on your post Kozmas.

If Coach Pitino lied, he would be fired, and more than likely had his contract voided due
to deception , and dishonesty.

Unless he keeps the entire team ( players and coaches ) in one room, he cant monitor
grown men who know what rules to follow.

As noted by others, Chris Jones was on lock down curfew, yet he snuck out and
was summarily dismissed.

Mcgee , and UofL are getting exhorted.

 

[bigoldred]

Agree with you 100% brother.

 

[Beach Bird]

Totally agree. Way too much activity to have gone on without some form of collaboration. Someone would have taken notice given the number of occurrences.

That's the real threat and worry for me as a fan is allegedly there were 22 parties over a 48 month period which means there could have been a Party with this woman's crew every two and a half months. More than likely it was not for the same people. It's staggering how it went unnoticed.

On every team that I have been on or coached there was always the tattletail that ran to the coach and squealed. Usually a walk on or team manger who aspires to be a coach keeps the coaching staff informed on any shenanigans.

I'm hoping for the best but with the frequency and the number of contacts between these women and whoever they entertained the opportunity for the investigators to confirm the allegations increases.

You can rob one bank and you might get away with it. Rob 22 banks and you create a pattern and begin to get careless which leads to some one catching you. Yikes, I read to many PSI's.....lol

 

[kozmas]

So you are saying CRP would kick Jones, Behanan and Ware off the team for violating team rules, which in all honestly probably cost us another National Title. However he knew about Andre McGhee and the prostitute and let him stay with the team even though losing McGhee was not detrimental to the success of the team.
Well in my opinion that just doesn't add up. McGhee is guilty of putting our program in jeporady and being stupid but CRP was not a part of it.

 

[shadow force]

So you are saying CRP would kick Jones, Behanan and Ware off the team for violating team rules, which in all honestly probably cost us another National Title. However he knew about Andre McGhee and the prostitute and let him stay with the team even though losing McGhee was not detrimental to the success of the team.
Well in my opinion that just doesn't add up. McGhee is guilty of putting our program in jeporady and being stupid but CRP was not a part of it.

I agree. I don't believe Pitino would dismiss those guys from the team but would be a-ok with everything that is alleged to have happened. It doesn't make sense.

 

[zipp]

I think it's very simple actually. When a coach says he keeps close tabs on his players and knows what their every move is he isn't doing all that himself. That's impossible. Nobody can do that. Coaches have so many appointments and recruiting trips to take that there is no way they can be in 5 different places at one time...

Can't believe I'm agreeing with an LPT fan in opposition to a purported U of L fan...

Pitino never said he knew a player missed curfew because he met the kid at the backdoor. That's simply supposition by the OP. And find me where Pitino calls himself a "micro-manager". More contrived garbage by Pitino bashers.

To the contrary, I've heard Pitino say on multiple occasions that "I don't suspend players, they suspend themselves." That's a coach who trusts his players to a point, and when one of them proves the Coach wrong, there's a price to pay. Why doesn't that sound like a micro-manager?

We have a few U of L fans--maybe the OP's one of them--who lie in wait for bad news about someone or something at U of L. Someone or something that the fan didn't like in the first place. Perhaps Pitino was just that type of person for the OP...

 

[zipp]

I'm not sure that a handful of you guys quoting facts really know what a fact is. "Activity" going on is too vague. What goes on at a "party"? Are all activities and parties the same? We don't even know this ho was a real hooker. She just SAYS she makes money.

Fine to argue hypotheticals. But when you've already made up your mind, that's not hypothetical. And it's not based on facts. Yet...

 

[kyjeff1]

Can't believe I'm agreeing with an LPT fan in opposition to a purported U of L fan...

Pitino never said he knew a player missed curfew because he met the kid at the backdoor. That's simply supposition by the OP. And find me where Pitino calls himself a "micro-manager". More contrived garbage by Pitino bashers.

To the contrary, I've heard Pitino say on multiple occasions that "I don't suspend players, they suspend themselves." That's a coach who trusts his players to a point, and when one of them proves the Coach wrong, there's a price to pay. Why doesn't that sound like a micro-manager?

We have a few U of L fans--maybe the OP's one of them--who lie in wait for bad news about someone or something at U of L. Someone or something that the fan didn't like in the first place. Perhaps Pitino was just that type of person for the OP...

Yes Zipp, it is okay to agree with me. I've argued this point many times, no 1 man can see everything, and even if he is a micro manager he STILL won't see everything. It's literally impossible, especially when one of your own coaches is orchestrating the mess. It ultimately falls on Pitino but everyone will know it was McGee that did this…. If in fact it went down.

 

[thecycle21]

The bottom line is he wouldn't allow anything to go on that could possibly go on that is bad for the University or him especially after the Sypher ordeal. That is why if he knew he would have stopped it immediately. To believe he knew you have to make a pretty big leap that he is willing to jeopardize his legacy for an activity that has no benefit to his program. What you are basically saying is he knew about this even though his program landed zero big time recruits plus if it comes out it could ruin my legacy and the Universities image. He is too smart and experienced to allow what was alleged to go on.

 

[rockycard]

Let me clarify some: I'm not saying that ALL the accusations are true. Don't know anything about money, etc. What we do know is that it's being confirmed that there were strippers in the dorms, so I'm accepting that as fact.

Pitino claims he knew nothing about any of it. With his micro managing style, the embarrassment of the Sypher situation, the bad juju of Chris Jones just this past season, you'd think that Pitino would be keeping a VERY close eye on such situations possibly becoming an issue again. As I said, we've all seen how close he stays in with the players. He's proud of the fact that he's close to them. He's proudly proclaims that he runs a tight ship and keeps an eye on everything. His record of punishment, suspensions and kids being kicked off the team over the years backs up those claims on his part. Over the years how many times have we heard '_____________ is suspended for two games for missing curfew"? He knows when they come and go, and his disciplinary record proves it.

Now he's claiming he had no idea that strippers/dancers have been coming into Minardi Hall for 4 years. If he's so in touch with what the players are doing, how could he not know this?

Let me clarify this, you get your info from ksr and rr, so you only know the bs side of any story you read. The only truthful piece from either of those sites was about 8 years ago when you guys were describing Calipari.

 

[Cardsmack29]

Blast away at me all that you want, but I DO NOT believe Pitino when he says that he had no idea anything was going on in Minardi Hall.

The reason is simple: He's always prided himself on being a micro manager of the team. He keeps tabs on all the players all the time. We've seen and heard story after story of him getting involved with the team and players, both good and bad.

We've seen plenty of the bad. How many times has he disciplined/suspended/kicked a player off the team? He'll tell you every time they miss curfew and get in trouble for it.

We've seen the good from knowing all the things about Sivas father to simple things like mentioning Kyle Kurics girlfriend.

If he knows his team this closely as he's claimed (and proven) that he has, how could he all of a sudden stand up in front of everyone and say he had no idea they were shuffling women in and out of Minardi Hall for 4 straight years? He knew everytime someone missed curfew, but missed dancers?

Sorry, doesn't add up in my mind. Like I said, blast away at me, call me a UK fan, but in the end you can't honestly say that I've not made a very valid point.

Did ya think about the part where the whole thing could be false..maybe? Geez...some people want this to be so true that they pray at their bedsides every night.

Of course women were in the players dorm. There is nothing wrong with women in the players dorms...never has ben on any university in the US except some religious schools who frown upon it. Rick of course knew women were in the frickin dorm. But saying he knew anything about hookers or strippers is rediculous and just ignorant.

 

[zipp]

Let me clarify this, you get your info from ksr and rr, so you only know the bs side of any story you read. The only truthful piece from either of those sites was about 8 years ago when you guys were describing Calipari.

IIRC the guy used to be a poster on the Rivals LPT site...

 

[Petjurino]

No way Rick knew and TWill even said so today. No one except for the OP thinks that Rick knew. Even most of cayut fan friends think Rick didn't know.

 

[DerVille]

You don't believe him?

I don't care.

 

[L1c4tillidie]

Mcgee , and UofL are getting exhorted.

I think more and more people are starting to realize that this is the case. Lots of people are about to have egg on their face. sUcKs fans are laughing now but it's more likely that the NCAA finds dirt on them than on us from this investigation. Thats how strongly I believe in the tight/clean ship that Jurich/Pitino run.
We'll probably figure out that Katina also was also Bledsoe's high school algebra teacher or that she helped provide payment for Davis to go to school. Wont have to look far to uncover dirt down the road. Im not worried; this book is all nonsense.

 

[earsky]

I've thought about this long and hard,leaning one way but not for long.On a recent pass thru campus,I was wondering how CP could possibly have not known what was going on at Minardi,then as I passed the practice facility,it struck me that Pitino comes to practice on Floyd St.,but that is probably the only smell he gets of the campus.He jumps in his car after a day at the office,heads East and never goes by Minardi Hall.

The things he learns about his players,he learns over on Floyd St at the office(UofL practice facility).I honestly can say that I believe had he known,that he would have stopped it and heads would've rolled.These accusations are unfounded.

Was he guilty of promoting the wrong guy to head of basketball operations? Maybe.We'll see.

 

[Strongtino]

I'm most likely in the minority here but I don't care if Pitino knew or not. To me its irrelevant and has no bearing on what needs to be done.

 

[earsky]

It's relevant to this thread.The higher paid guys will have to determine what's best to do for the program.

 

[J-Rye_UL]

Blast away at me all that you want, but I DO NOT believe Pitino when he says that he had no idea anything was going on in Minardi Hall.

The reason is simple: He's always prided himself on being a micro manager of the team. He keeps tabs on all the players all the time. We've seen and heard story after story of him getting involved with the team and players, both good and bad.

We've seen plenty of the bad. How many times has he disciplined/suspended/kicked a player off the team? He'll tell you every time they miss curfew and get in trouble for it.

We've seen the good from knowing all the things about Sivas father to simple things like mentioning Kyle Kurics girlfriend.

If he knows his team this closely as he's claimed (and proven) that he has, how could he all of a sudden stand up in front of everyone and say he had no idea they were shuffling women in and out of Minardi Hall for 4 straight years? He knew everytime someone missed curfew, but missed dancers?

Sorry, doesn't add up in my mind. Like I said, blast away at me, call me a UK fan, but in the end you can't honestly say that I've not made a very valid point.

Have you listened to the interview Rick did with Terry Meiners last week? It is very revealing - in a good way.

 

[bigoldred]

Thanks to no-lifers like you Calipari no longer needs his yearly colonoscopy.

"All clear coach Cayul".

LOL now that's funny,

 

[Louisvillian]

LOL now that's funny,

Sadly my innocuous reply was too risqué for this board. Wow.

 

[zipp]

I'm most likely in the minority here but I don't care if Pitino knew or not. To me its irrelevant and has no bearing on what needs to be done.

Being in the minority doesn't matter... Irrelevant to what, and what needs to be done? And how do you make your assessment?

 

[Strongtino]

Being in the minority doesn't matter... Irrelevant to what, and what needs to be done? And how do you make your assessment?

I think what Pitino knew or knows or didn't know is irrelevant. This is yet another "thing" that's happened under his watch to go along with Sypher-Gate, the Chris Jones trial, Chane getting kicked out of school...the constant drama with player discipline and transfers. I know his ego would not allow for it but I do wish he would walk away. Its just my opinion, I know I'm in the minority, no need to bash or tell me what an idiot I am.

I base this assessment on the fact that I honestly think it will be easier for the program to move forward under new leadership. I'll be shocked if UL comes away from this without some form of penalty but beyond that is the fact that Rick was already having difficulty recruiting his top choices. People act like Rick doesn't target elite talent and that he wants this top 30-75 kids but thats only because he struck out on options 1 through 5. Rick already has Nike working against him, his lack of player success in the NBA working against him, his reputation of being a difficult coach to play for working against him, his reputation of running a difficult system working against him and we're going to start having Rick's age work against him as well.. and now we're going to probably have sanctions and Rick's going to have to answer questions about this ordeal. I just feel like another coach could move the program past this much quicker.

 

[Cue Card]

I think what Pitino knew or knows or didn't know is irrelevant. This is yet another "thing" that's happened under his watch to go along with Sypher-Gate, the Chris Jones trial, Chane getting kicked out of school...the constant drama with player discipline and transfers. I know his ego would not allow for it but I do wish he would walk away. Its just my opinion, I know I'm in the minority, no need to bash or tell me what an idiot I am.

I base this assessment on the fact that I honestly think it will be easier for the program to move forward under new leadership. I'll be shocked if UL comes away from this without some form of penalty but beyond that is the fact that Rick was already having difficulty recruiting his top choices. People act like Rick doesn't target elite talent and that he wants this top 30-75 kids but thats only because he struck out on options 1 through 5. Rick already has Nike working against him, his lack of player success in the NBA working against him, his reputation of being a difficult coach to play for working against him, his reputation of running a difficult system working against him and we're going to start having Rick's age work against him as well.. and now we're going to probably have sanctions and Rick's going to have to answer questions about this ordeal. I just feel like another coach could move the program past this much quicker.

OK, I'll play along with that line of thought although I want to go on record and say I do not agree with Jurich replacing Pitino just yet. I want to know ALL the FACTS regarding this issue before I throw anyone under the bus on a public message board.

Who's the top target for Jurich to go after to replace coach Rick Pitino? When Jurich was tasked with replacing coach Crum, the obvious #1 and only choice at that time was Rick Pitino. Who would you suggest Tom Jurich go after?