what does that have to do with the competitiveness of UK and UofL football?
People have differing opinions on the world we live in. You're apparently fine with the Govt telling you how to live, I am not.
The MYTH that UK is "closer" to U of L after last year's game
- Thread starter Pervis_Griffith
- Start date
what does that have to do with the competitiveness of UK and UofL football?
People have differing opinions on the world we live in. You're apparently fine with the Govt telling you how to live, I am not.
Give it a rest man, I was talking football on here. You chose to go that route.
And I honestly don't give two rips about how you feel about me or my posts, carry on
And I honestly don't give two rips about how you feel about me or my posts, carry on
Obviously. Oh and you don't "talk football" any better than you do social issues. I know I shouldn't care, but it's kind of a calling of mine to call out stupidity when I see it. Nothing personal
Speaking as a poster, not a mod...is this really necessary? The guy has been a good poster so far, from what I have seen. Why hassle him personally?
Quit being emotional, you don't understand or grasp the whole picture. Now I'm done talking about this here. I'm sure people in a football thread don't want to hear it, and I know I don't.
Let's get back to gigging each other about the rivalry.
Let it go Cardfan. You're judging me over something you obviously are to close to form an unbiased opinion.
No one here wants to hear about it.
You took my post completely out of context, probably my fault in the wording. Please let's move on from it.
No one here wants to hear about it.
You took my post completely out of context, probably my fault in the wording. Please let's move on from it.
The only reason Joker is gone is because of the fan boycott. Season ticket sales were at stake. Nothing else factored in.
Barnhart brought Joker back after the 5-win season. That was really a 4-win season with a complete fluke win at the end. No way a program legitimately focused on winning would have had Joker back after that first losing season.
Stoops may work out, but he's already done his job in Barnhart's eyes because the boycott ended. And if Stoops doesn't work out? Unlike at the start of Joker's run, UK fans are back to being conditioned to accept losing seasons. So another emotional, organized boycott seems unlikely.
Barnhart brought Joker back after the 5-win season. That was really a 4-win season with a complete fluke win at the end. No way a program legitimately focused on winning would have had Joker back after that first losing season.
Stoops may work out, but he's already done his job in Barnhart's eyes because the boycott ended. And if Stoops doesn't work out? Unlike at the start of Joker's run, UK fans are back to being conditioned to accept losing seasons. So another emotional, organized boycott seems unlikely.
Pappaw won 6 games and 7 games his last two years and played against Kragthorpe. Both years barely bowl eligible thanks to K-rag.
Joker won 6 games and 5 games his first two years and played against Strong in those years, going 1-1. The year Joker lost, LPT didn't play in a bowl; the other, they did.
Both coaches were on the fringe of bowl eligibility in the same timeframe, with the same school and about the same talent. One LPT coach played his games against the worst U of L football coach in memory.
One LPT coach was a disaster, the other is heralded as a savior. That's typical LPT football delusion.
Those are also statistical facts.
LPT Football: We hate facts...
One was trending down fast!! One has improved in all aspects. It's not even comparable at this point.
If UK only wins 4 games or less this year, you can use that argument. But even then it's going to take time to turn things around.
Joker for whatever reason is one of those guys that is great position coach, but isn't head coach material. Stoops may eventually fall in that category, it remains to be seen, but at this point he's got the program going in the right direction.
Another major point that doesn't get brought up is that Joker was familiar with the players and staff. He didn't have to bring in anyone, or get familiar with the administration. The groundwork and connections were already there. Stoops had to come in and put everything in place. That's a major advantage joker had, and he stiil couldn't keep it together.
If UK only wins 4 games or less this year, you can use that argument. But even then it's going to take time to turn things around.
Joker for whatever reason is one of those guys that is great position coach, but isn't head coach material. Stoops may eventually fall in that category, it remains to be seen, but at this point he's got the program going in the right direction.
Another major point that doesn't get brought up is that Joker was familiar with the players and staff. He didn't have to bring in anyone, or get familiar with the administration. The groundwork and connections were already there. Stoops had to come in and put everything in place. That's a major advantage joker had, and he stiil couldn't keep it together.
I agree Barnhart should've let him go, but in fairness he was loyal to a guy, probably to a fault. You've got to give guys time to turn things around. Not only for him, but for the next guy that might be interested in the job to show him you're not going to make knee jerk decisions.
How can you say nothing else factored in? I don't even understand how you can say that. Of course wins and losses factored. Direction of the program, you act as though joker would still be there no matter what if the fans hadn't quit going. Results matter. He made a move in 3 years, that's pretty quick even in today's world.
The program has obviously taken a step back under joker, How can anyone with a straight face say it hadn't?
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Damn, did you even read the prior post? It was about Brooks and Joker. Or do you just wander around with your answers and posts?
LPT Football: We don't comprehend so well...
I was responding to Mike, it was fairly obvious.
And comparing Jokers tenure to Brooks is silly. Brooks built the team up to reaching consecutive bowl games. Joker could not maintain it, at all.
Are you even a fan of Louisville? Or do you just hate UK? You go out of your way to constantly talk about UK, over and over dreaming up reasons that Calipari is failing, the football team isn't improving.
And comparing Jokers tenure to Brooks is silly. Brooks built the team up to reaching consecutive bowl games. Joker could not maintain it, at all.
Are you even a fan of Louisville? Or do you just hate UK? You go out of your way to constantly talk about UK, over and over dreaming up reasons that Calipari is failing, the football team isn't improving.
Well that explains a lot, and that matters to people posting on an internet message board how?
Do you remember Bill Curry, and how long he was kept around? Joker wasn't going anywhere if season ticket sales hadn't been at stake. Not for several more seasons. The writing was on the wall for everyone after the 5-win season. Joker was not going to get it done. But as usual at UK, bad coaches stay way too long. Why? The administration is focused solely on college basketball and football is simply used to fund the other sports.
Two things could happen with Stoops. Either he will get a fluke 7-win season and be gone to greener pastures faster than you can say "Guy Morriss", or Stoops will continue losing and stick around 2-3 years longer than any remotely competitive program would allow.
There is a different AD now isn't there? What makes you think what happened in the 90's had any bearing on what happens now?
He let Joker go after 3 years, all the rest of your post is speculation. Why do you think Jurich let Kragthorpe go? He was losing the fans. That's why there's very few long term coaches anymore.
What the hell is the point of this anyway? You're trying to convince yourself of something that is in direct opposite of what's happening. The admin is getting behind the football team.
He let Joker go after 3 years, all the rest of your post is speculation. Why do you think Jurich let Kragthorpe go? He was losing the fans. That's why there's very few long term coaches anymore.
What the hell is the point of this anyway? You're trying to convince yourself of something that is in direct opposite of what's happening. The admin is getting behind the football team.
I'm just commenting on what I've observed over the decades at UK. Curry lost and stayed forever. Morriss ran at the first opportunity. Joker was kept too long. The only thing that was different that time was, the fans had gotten used to bowls and they were seriously boycotting. Barnhart was losing season ticket sales.
If the boycott hadn't happened, I'm convinced we'd still be talking about when Joker's last year would be. It's just the way things work at UK with football.
As far as speculation goes, saying the administration is getting behind the football team is purely speculation. When I look over there, I see an AD who was desperate to shut down a fan revolt so he sacrificed the handpicked caretaker of the program, Joker. The UK administration has played its fanbase for fools so many times, I'm going to have to see a real change before I just assume THIS time things have changed. You're welcome to buy in all you want.
How can you say he kept joker too long? He was only head coach 3 years.
I don't believe if joker had kept going the way he was headed he'd still be coach if the fans hadn't revolted. Thats not realistic.
Morriss wanted a ton of money, Baylor offered it, we see how long he lasted there.
I know that the admin is forking over money to keep assistants now, that didn't happen in the past. Will it be enough, I don't know, but it's more support than UK has shown previously.
I don't believe if joker had kept going the way he was headed he'd still be coach if the fans hadn't revolted. Thats not realistic.
Morriss wanted a ton of money, Baylor offered it, we see how long he lasted there.
I know that the admin is forking over money to keep assistants now, that didn't happen in the past. Will it be enough, I don't know, but it's more support than UK has shown previously.
The reason I believe they kept Joker too long is, everyone could just look at that program about midway through the 5-win season and see it was a completely derailed train wreck. Tennessee win or no Tennessee win. The writing was on the wall, but Barnhart didn't have any incentive to make a change. Not until the boycott turned into a 600-lb gorilla. I believe UK fans forced Barnharts hand, not the situation on the field.
Interesting that they're forking over money to keep assistants, yet didn't I read a few months ago that the team has already changed OC's?
The bottom line with UK is it's a graveyard job. Bringing up Guy was just to illustrate that. Wise coaches in that job either get lucky and get out with a fluke season like Morriss, or they hang around for a paycheck to be the caretaker of the program. Again, you're welcome to put a more positive spin on things, but I won't believe otherwise until I see real change in that program.
The writing was on the wall, it was obvious he didn't have it. But you can't fire a guy in year 2 unless the wheels completely fall off or he does something ignorant. Not only is it a bush league move, but the next guy you try to hire is going to have that in the back of their mind. And like you said, UK needs all the help it can get in making a good hire, and that just would be another road block.
It just seems to me you guys critique UK ALOT harder than you do Louisville.
Jurich just ran out and hired a buddy in Kragthorpe, then kept him 4 years when it was clear he wasn't going to pan out. I'm not gonna lie, I loved Strong, he's a helluva man and coach. But then you gave Petrino the bank, when you literally had all the chips in your pile. No one was coming after Petrino at western Ky.
The oc got a head coaching gig, he made a move up.
It just seems to me you guys critique UK ALOT harder than you do Louisville.
Jurich just ran out and hired a buddy in Kragthorpe, then kept him 4 years when it was clear he wasn't going to pan out. I'm not gonna lie, I loved Strong, he's a helluva man and coach. But then you gave Petrino the bank, when you literally had all the chips in your pile. No one was coming after Petrino at western Ky.
The oc got a head coaching gig, he made a move up.
Let's see...
Jurich hired his "buddy" in K-rag...
Fired him because of the fans...
And overpaid Petrino when he didn't have to.
Thanks, Bill, for opening our eyes about the best AD in the biz--as only a slapd!ck can do.
LPT Football: Our fans obviously don't know jack...
Jurich hired his "buddy" in K-rag...
Fired him because of the fans...
And overpaid Petrino when he didn't have to.
Thanks, Bill, for opening our eyes about the best AD in the biz--as only a slapd!ck can do.
LPT Football: Our fans obviously don't know jack...
Funny stuff. A guy we've never heard of two weeks ago is now evaluating our fan quality.
As you know, I like dumping on LPT fans for the simple pleasure it brings. If you don't approve of that, one question... Who's on whose message board?
LPT Football: Looking for where we belong...
That's exactly what happened Zipp. Who was he bidding against for Petrino? No one was going to touch him.
You guys talk in circles. Barnhart kept joker too long, but Jurich who kept Kragthorpe a year longer didn't. The fans at UK accept mediocrity, but they forced Barnharts hand, but the fans at Louisville don't accept it, but they didn't force Jurichs hand...say what?
Jurich is a good ad, but you guys act like he never screws up.
Why did he keep Kragthorpe so long? Why didn't he at least interview other people before hiring him?
Why exactly did he pay Petrino so much after the way the guy treated your university and shamed himself? He's a good coach, but NO ONE was going to touch him at WKU.
You guys talk in circles. Barnhart kept joker too long, but Jurich who kept Kragthorpe a year longer didn't. The fans at UK accept mediocrity, but they forced Barnharts hand, but the fans at Louisville don't accept it, but they didn't force Jurichs hand...say what?
Jurich is a good ad, but you guys act like he never screws up.
Why did he keep Kragthorpe so long? Why didn't he at least interview other people before hiring him?
Why exactly did he pay Petrino so much after the way the guy treated your university and shamed himself? He's a good coach, but NO ONE was going to touch him at WKU.
All of that is just your uninformed opinion because you haven't a clue how Jurich operates. (How would you know when Brainfart is your AD, eh?)
Jurich paid Petrino what he thought he was worth. How much did he make at Arkansas? And before that with the NFL Falcons? Jurich has established that the head football coach at U of L is in one of the highest-paying jobs in the nation. And Petrino has already proven his value.
That's another important difference between U of L and LPT football: at LPT, the question is how little can we pay our coach? Just the opposite of basketball.
The U of L AD marches to his own drumbeat. He doesn't consult the fans or many other people. He also makes damn few, damn few mistakes. You're just making yourself look bad suggesting otherwise.
Jurich let K-rag go when he decided it was right. He gave him ample opportunity. The guy was an abysmal failure compared to his predecessor and successor. Over a nine-year span... Petrino won 32 games in his last three years (10.7 avg), K-rag won 15 games in his three years (5.0), and Strong won 25 in his first three (8.3). Those are stark differences.
Pappaw averaged 5.5 wins, Joker 4.3 wins, and Stupes 3.5 wins over their LPT careers. Those aren't real differences. Joker should have had more time if these other clowns are seen as doing a good job.
LPT Football: We see differences where no on else does...
Dude...CRAP-DORK was at Louisville for 3 TOO MANY Years!!!
No kidding. Get it right Billy. Fellas stop critiquing u of k harder than UL. It hurts Bill's feelings.
Zipp, You're a smart guy, I've read plenty of the financial postings of yours.
You and I both know Jurich over paid Petrino. He fell all over himself because he understands Louisvilles position.
The level of denial on here is funny. You guys act like teenage boys that are p*ssy whipped. Jurich can do no wrong, and when he does you just act like it didn't happen.
Brooks inherited a team on probation, Joker inherited a team going to bowls that's a big difference I know you're aware of, but it doesn't fit your argument. did Stoops not win more the second year? What year did Joker improve win wise from the previous? Stats cab be misrepresented Zipp, that's why you use them.
And Jurich also set up Kragthorpe for failure by forcing him to keep Some of Petrinos staff. While I'll agree Jurich is a fine AD, his ego gets him in trouble. He's the definition of a big fish in a little pond lol.
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Jurich isn't perfect. But like I said, you're just making yourself look bad attacking him. His worst day would be your best. Speaking of his worst day, that K-rag stuff and "Petrino's staff" was a U of L smokescreen to cover for the sorriest coach in U of L history.
So what was "Louisville's position"? And how can U of L be overpaying Petrino when LPT is paying Stupes roughly the same amount of money? From a coaching standpoint, no one outside of LPT land would trade Petrino for TWO of Stupes. In fact, if there's a coach paid well in excess of his performance, it's your guy.
Brooks inherited a winning team from Guy Morriss. A team with players that resulted from illegal recruiting--always funny how LPT fans never acknowledge the flipside of probation.
Stupes won more games last year largely because of the schedule. We've gone down that path already, but I'll be glad to do it again.
My experience is that people who attack stats-based arguments don't understand stats, don't have experience using data, and/or don't really have a good counterargument. LPT fans generally fit one of these categories.
LPT Football: We hate facts...
I don't know about the whole worst day stuff. I'm pretty content and happy with my life.
You're right about the schedule, but that doesn't mean the team prior would've won those games, as I said every teams schedule plays a part.
And I fully understand stats. But what you presented is only half the story.
Brooks inherited a team on probation, joker inherited a team going to bowls, and stoops record improved. Surely you can see how skewed the stats are in that picture?
I didn't say UK didn't illegally recruit, in fact I implied that. But it doesn't change the fact they were decimated on scholarships when Brooks got there. To deny that is to deny the truth of the matter. And Petrinos record against UK was built on beating them on probation. Those are all facts.
When all things are equal Petrinos record is far less shiny.
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People in this forum have different ideas and theories. Of course if you pull from one person or another you're going to get different, sometimes contradictory takes. A lot of this is just conjecture anyway. Ask 100 people and get 100 opinions!
As for the question about what Jurich paid for Petrino, my take on that is Jurich is a wise man who sees the big picture in his hirings. I admit I questioned Jurich when he gave Strong a big raise after Year 1. My take on that now is that Jurich was in a strong position but was planning for a time when he'd be in the weaker position. I believe that show of confidence in Strong in Year 1 is what bought Louisville an extra, critical year of Strong.
With Petrino I think it's something similar. Petrino is in a weak position now, no one else wants him. But that may not always be the case, and Jurich hopes Petrino will remember he took care of Petrino when Petrino is in a much stronger position and fielding offers from other teams.
Jurich made a mistake with Kragthorpe, both in hiring and how long he kept Kragthorpe. However, I don't see this as a systemic problem like what you have at UK. At UK, it doesn't seem to matter who is the A.D., who is the coach. If the coach fails, he's kept around way too long. The rare exception being the fan boycott, which cut short Joker's stay, but still he was there too long.
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