The MYTH that UK is "closer" to U of L after last year's game

[zipp]

Just to add to my earlier posts about the attrition that started with Joker that Stoops has had to deal with in the beginning of his tenure at UK, here are some more numbers:

22 players from the 09 and 10 class didn't even make it until the start of Joker's final year at UK...

Of the 25 players signed in the 2011 class, four are still with the team, eight have been drafted or exhausted eligibility, and 13 are no longer with the team or never made it to campus... This also speaks to the fact that Joker barely redshirted anyone.

Of the 27 players in the 2012 class only 10 are still with the team...

As you can see, roster attrition has been a big blow to the UK program. For this reason UK will be really young this year, and will likely struggle, though still be improved and more talented.

This is one of my favorite LPT football cop outs. Attrition under Joker. And most LPT fans spew it...

Per Rivals, there were 28 kids in LPT's 2009 class and 27 in 2010. So, at least five kids were recruited over your scholarship limits for those classes. IOW, you were BANKING ON attrition some way and somehow.

The 2009 class was technically speaking brought in under Brooks as head coach. Is Joker now responsible for Pappaw's recruiting?

And whose fault is it when the new coach runs off a lot of the prior coach's players as happened with the 2012 LPT class (Joker's last)? How is Joker responsible for that--he wasn't even at the controls?

If you check attrition generally among scholarship athletes, you'll find the numbers to be pretty high. In basketball, I think something like 40% of incoming freshmen don't make it to their junior seasons. Sure you want better numbers, but how is one coach responsible for a national trend?

Lastly, if you check, I think Petrino had the same accusation against him on his first stint at U of L. Doesn't appear to have held him back. Roster attrition is a not something you want. But it's certainly not an obvious cause-and-effect contributor to football performance.

LPT Football: Next excuse...

 

[Bill Derington]

Missouri has finished ranked 5 of the last 8 seasons, top 5 finishes twice. Pinkell built it, and they are here to stay as long as he is.

Stoops is no Pinkell

You're right, stoops is actually ahead of where pinkell was after 2 years.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missouri_Tigers_football_under_Gary_Pinkel

 

[zipp]

I don't hate facts, I know what Newton did. But the series with Louisville had already started by then. I don't even know what the hell we're arguing about. are you saying UK only expanded because of Louisville? That's ridiculous...

I'm not sure what you know from your posts. The Louisville series started with the expectation of an LPT stadium expansion as the article clearly said. LPT needed attractive games on its schedule to try to fill it.

(Sidebar: What does LPT charge for the U of L game compared to other SEC games? Shows you that LPT recognized and still recognizes the financial importance of the U of L game. Live in denial if you want...)

...What does UK gain nationally by playing Louisville every year in the mud 90's? If they win they gain nothing, if they lose Louisville gets recognition. It was a win win for Louisville, which is exactly why Louisville agreed to play at commonwealth every year. It's not difficult to see Zipp...

Louisville wanted the football series to likewise beef up its schedule and provide the incentive to build its own new stadium. Had nothing to do with "nothing to lose". LPT's football program is historically a dumpster fire, and losing to any dumpster fire is a black eye. U of L shouldered more risk from losing.

...UK jumped the gun with that expansion...

Duh. Your attendance has declined just about every year since. But bad LPT financial decisions are hardly the exceptions.

...I'm not saying UK is going to be a juggernaut in football, I believe it's going to take time to build it, especially with the lack of homegrown talent and perception. But I think the team is heading in the right direction. Time will tell

Well, we've been waiting 50-60 years, so what's a few more?

LPT Football: Timeless...

 

[Global Havok]

Pinkel took over a Saban coached Toledo team that went 9-2, and proceeded to go 5-5-1, 8-3, 4-7, and 6-4-1 in the MAC. People should probably give Stoops more than 1/12 of the time Pinkel has been HC before they make judgement either way lol.

 

[Bill Derington]

Zipp, the nationwide decline is 14%. The cats came off a 2-10 season and had a decline of 3. UK's bad business decisions haha. Yea.
Louisville had nothing to lose and everything to gain. They were the new kid on the block, trying to gain recognition, UK is a member of the sec, a win against an sec team is a helluva gain for a team in whatever conference you were in that year.
Now you can act like it benefitted UK more and that's fine, that's you're warped prerogative. But how many other state universities play city schools from that state? You know why they don't? Because there is no benefit for them. They win they're supposed too, if they lose it gives the city school a recruiting edge, something to build on.

 

[zipp]

...Louisville had nothing to lose and everything to gain. They were the new kid on the block, trying to gain recognition, UK is a member of the sec, a win against an sec team is a helluva gain for a team in whatever conference you were in that year...

You're not a "member" of the SEC. You're a SEC/BCS doormat. You're Indiana in the Big Ten or Washington State in the Pac 12. Those games don't get circled on anyone's calendar unless it's a rivalry game. And losing to those teams is an embarrassment. As always, you're hiding behind the SEC skirts.

...Now you can act like it benefitted UK more and that's fine, that's you're warped prerogative. But how many other state universities play city schools from that state? You know why they don't? Because there is no benefit for tm. They win they're supposed too, if they lose it gives the city school a recruiting edge, something to build on.

You're the little country school playing the flagship school in the the State's largest metropolitan area. You're playing where your coeds go on the weekend to enjoy themselves vs. sitting at home in a rural cowtown.

You're playing one of the premier athletic programs in the country in the better facilities with better players and coaches. And for sure more capable people at the top. (That's multiple years running BTW...)

Sounds like U of L has a lot to lose playing LPT.

LPT Football: Stuck in the 50s...

 

[CardFan1130]

Well you know not all of us can be that self proclaimed law school grad who's life calling is to come on an internet message board to call out stupidity, combat racism, and stop world hunger. Your really taking it to them though, everyone posting here has been thoroughly impressed .

Zing! You sure got me there! Good one. Oh and "whose" is the word you're looking for; not "who's." "Your" welcome.

 

[Global Havok]

This is one of my favorite LPT football cop outs. Attrition under Joker. And most LPT fans spew it...

Per Rivals, there were 28 kids in LPT's 2009 class and 27 in 2010. So, at least five kids were recruited over your scholarship limits for those classes. IOW, you were BANKING ON attrition some way and somehow.

The 2009 class was technically speaking brought in under Brooks as head coach. Is Joker now responsible for Pappaw's recruiting?

And whose fault is it when the new coach runs off a lot of the prior coach's players as happened with the 2012 LPT class (Joker's last)? How is Joker responsible for that--he wasn't even at the controls?

If you check attrition generally among scholarship athletes, you'll find the numbers to be pretty high. In basketball, I think something like 40% of incoming freshmen don't make it to their junior seasons. Sure you want better numbers, but how is one coach responsible for a national trend?

Lastly, if you check, I think Petrino had the same accusation against him on his first stint at U of L. Doesn't appear to have held him back. Roster attrition is a not something you want. But it's certainly not an obvious cause-and-effect contributor to football performance.

LPT Football: Next excuse...

Well, considering that up until just days ago you didn't think that the roster attrition started under Joker and I proved it to you, I find it hard to believe it's a UK fan cop out you've heard before this thread.

And yes, most teams recruit with some level of attrition in mind. The 09 and 10 classes oversigned by 5 recruits total, but experienced 22 losses by the start of the 2012 season. That's quite a bit of difference. Looks like they should've oversigned more.

The %40 attrition rate you quote is for basketball, which makes sense, as continuity isn't as important, and players can make a bigger, more immediate impact in that sport. I've looked for some national numbers on attrition, and I'm having trouble getting comprehensive stats. However, what you will find are a bunch of articles detailing the hardships roster attrition places football programs under. Also, what I've found in the articles I've read is that attrition numbers of %24 are high, even after a coaching change.

Further, on the one hand you blame Stoops for running off Joker's guys, and in the same paragraph say it isn't Joker's fault all those guys from the 09 class were no longer with the team in his final year because they were Brooks' guys. Lol, are you Joker's family?

Finally, I don't know the attrition numbers of UofL under Petrino. I find it very hard to believe they are anywhere near as high as 60 players from four classes. If you'd like to find the numbers I'd love to see them.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

Pinkel took over a Saban coached Toledo team that went 9-2, and proceeded to go 5-5-1, 8-3, 4-7, and 6-4-1 in the MAC. People should probably give Stoops more than 1/12 of the time Pinkel has been HC before they make judgement either way lol.

I'm not putting any rush on Stoops, I don't disagree it is very, very early in his career to really know how good of a coach he is.

What is your time frame for when he can be fairly judged? Year 4, or this year?

 

[Global Havok]

I'm not putting any rush on Stoops, I don't disagree it is very, very early in his career to really know how good of a coach he is.

What is your time frame for when he can be fairly judged? Year 4, or this year?

From a fan's perspective I'd say next year is when he should start to fairly be judged, though I understand those that think this year should be the start of that.

Now, if he doesn't go bowling this year, I think it will really impact recruiting. Not so much the 2016 class because those guys have been committed for a while, and there are two really respected, highly ranked recruits to hold the class together in Drake Jackson and Landon Young. Not going bowling would seriously impact the 17 class though.

 

[zipp]

Well, considering that up until just days ago you didn't think that the roster attrition started under Joker and I proved it to you, I find it hard to believe it's a UK fan cop out you've heard before this thread...

I don't know WTH you're talking about as having proven. But THIS thread isn't the first time I've heard about Joker's "roster attrition". As I said, It's my favorite LPT football fan cop out.

...And yes, most teams recruit with some level of attrition in mind. The 09 and 10 classes oversigned by 5 recruits total, but experienced 22 losses by the start of the 2012 season. That's quite a bit of difference. Looks like they should've oversigned more...

You can't oversign enough kids in each class to get to graduation with 25 in each class. You only get 85 total scholarships. Even with what you probably consider normal attrition, you'd need 30-40 more in total. A big football graduating class is 20+.

...The %40 attrition rate you quote is for basketball, which makes sense, as continuity isn't as important, and players can make a bigger, more immediate impact in that sport. I've looked for some national numbers on attrition, and I'm having trouble getting comprehensive stats. However, what you will find are a bunch of articles detailing the hardships roster attrition places football programs under. Also, what I've found in the articles I've read is that attrition numbers of %24 are high, even after a coaching change...

The dropout rate for college students is high, period. Less for athletes on scholarship since their way is paid. The factors have less to do with which sport is played. Whatever the hell "continuity" is, the mind of each kid is the same. It's about discipline, academics, hard work, competition, etc. Some wanna tough it out, others don't. The national trend is high for those who don't want to.

...Further, on the one hand you blame Stoops for running off Joker's guys, and in the same paragraph say it isn't Joker's fault all those guys from the 09 class were no longer with the team in his final year because they were Brooks' guys. Lol, are you Joker's family?...

I'm pointing out that YOU are talking outta both sides of your mouth. According to your data, Joker's responsible for retaining Pappaw's kids, but Stupes isn't responsible for retaining Joker's kids. I guess because that position fits your agenda.

I'm not a Joker fan--on balance, he couldn't coach either. But that just made him a TYPICAL LPT football coach. LPT fans think he was horrible. No, he was almost as good as Pappaw, and so far, he looks almost as good as Stupes.

...Finally, I don't know the attrition numbers of UofL under Petrino. I find it very hard to believe they are anywhere near as high as 60 players from four classes. If you'd like to find the numbers I'd love to see them.

Where do four classes come from? Are you still assigning Joker the results from an extra recruiting class?

You're gonna have to start posting your data. They're increasingly suspect.

LPT Football: We often make this stuff up as we go along...

 

[mwatson61]

I'm not putting any rush on Stoops, I don't disagree it is very, very early in his career to really know how good of a coach he is.

What is your time frame for when he can be fairly judged? Year 4, or this year?

The one thing I noticed about last years UK squad that I haven't seen in a while is they didn't seem to quit. So that tells me the kids are buying in to the culture. They will still be very young playing true Juniors along with redshirts. A winning record this season would be huge but I just don't see it yet. I think year 4 is a fair time frame to know if the program is truely turning around under Stoops. His top ranked classes will be True Seniors and Redshirt Juniors backed up by true Juinors and redshirt sophomores. This is long enough for them to be developed in a perceived winning culture and system.

 

[LockdownCard]

You're right, stoops is actually ahead of where pinkell was after 2 years.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missouri_Tigers_football_under_Gary_Pinkel

Lol just stop..Pinkell is in another league, your ball coach has a ways to go.

Don't let wiki fool or misguide you Billy lmao.

LPT Football: Just ask "wiki"...

 

[zipp]

Speaking of attrition, I found this thread from an old Razorback discussion involving Petrino... Note the guy's post with actual data from 2006-2008. (The "Pappaw Years".)

The SEC teams at the top of that list were around 40% roster attrition over that timeframe. Pappaw himself was at 34%.

If we use the LPT guy's data above of 22 players attrited from the 2009 and 2010 classes (55 total commitments), the ratio is 40%. Or 6% higher than during Pappaw's best years at LPT.

Joker's roster attrition = LPT smokescreen

LPT Football: Next excuse...

 

[Bill Derington]

Lol just stop..Pinkell is in another league, your ball coach has a ways to go.

Don't let wiki fool or misguide you Billy lmao.

LPT Football: Just ask "wiki"...

Obviously I was comparing where pinkell was after 2 years at mizzou compared to stoops first 2 at UK.

Did you bother to look at his seasons?

 

[Bill Derington]

The one thing I noticed about last years UK squad that I haven't seen in a while is they didn't seem to quit. So that tells me the kids are buying in to the culture. They will still be very young playing true Juniors along with redshirts. A winning record this season would be huge but I just don't see it yet. I think year 4 is a fair time frame to know if the program is truely turning around under Stoops. His top ranked classes will be True Seniors and Redshirt Juniors backed up by true Juinors and redshirt sophomores. This is long enough for them to be developed in a perceived winning culture and system.

That's a fair post Watson and I think it's accurate. Although I'm hopeful they can get to a bowl this year. Like you said, it would be huge.

 

[mwatson61]

That's a fair post Watson and I think it's accurate. Although I'm hopeful they can get to a bowl this year. Like you said, it would be huge.

There's a thread on the Lair by our old buddy C1180 that is asking for a discussion of football and welcoming UofL fans. It replaced an 8 page thread that went way south with the usual suspects throwing each other under the bus. For the most part it has been pretty good however a couple have gotten a bit chippy. I would much prefer insightful information being shared versus the usual bad talk. Although, I have gone there on occassion.

 

[LockdownCard]

Obviously I was comparing where pinkell was after 2 years at mizzou compared to stoops first 2 at UK.

Did you bother to look at his seasons?

You just can't do that Billy. You can't compare any functioning football program to your beloved uk program.

No one is gonna respect your program until you guys earn it. Nobody cares about Rich Brooks and his two halfway decent seasons before he retired. That's fools gold and there's a reason he stepped down soon as his program started to gain momentum, even though it was all due to the hire of kragthorpe.

LPT Football: Just listen and never question the bbn faithful...

 

[Bill Derington]

You just can't do that Billy. You can't compare any functioning football program to your beloved uk program.

No one is gonna respect your program until you guys earn it. Nobody cares about Rich Brooks and his two halfway decent seasons before he retired. That's fools gold and there's a reason he stepped down soon as his program started to gain momentum, even though it was all due to the hire of kragthorpe.

LPT Football: Just listen and never question the bbn faithful...

Good lord, I don't know if Stoops is going to do what Pinkell has done. I didn't even say that, I said UK should try to emulate mizzou. Someone said Stoops is no Pinkell, and that may turn out true, I don't know. But I was showing that Pinkell had to build his program, and that he started our poorly.

 

[LockdownCard]

Good lord, I don't know if Stoops is going to do what Pinkell has done. I didn't even say that, I said UK should try to emulate mizzou. Someone said Stoops is no Pinkell, and that may turn out true, I don't know. But I was showing that Pinkell had to build his program, and that he started our poorly.

And I'm saying Mizzou was nowhere near the level of uk.

 

[Bill Derington]

They were though, that's the whole point. Pinkell went 5 years without getting above .500 at mizzou.
It takes time for a coach to build a program, Pinkell is proof of that.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

They were though, that's the whole point. Pinkell went 5 years without getting above .500 at mizzou.
It takes time for a coach to build a program, Pinkell is proof of that.

False. Pinkell was 8-5 in his 3rd year and made a bowl.

Larry Smith also got the ball rolling a few years prior. They finished in the polls in 1997 and 1998.
Missouri wasn't really at UK's low when Pinkell took over.

Pinkell took over in 2001.

 

[Bill Derington]

My bad, they followed with a 5-6 record.
And what you highlighted was almost identical to what Brooks did. My point remains mizzou wasn't a perennial power. Surely you can see that.
Are you just arguing for the sake of arguing?
I said UK should try to emulate mizzou, pinkells first 2 years were similar to Stoops.
I didn't say stoops is going to be Pinkell, but they should try to use what he did as road map.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

Don't take it personal Bill I was just pointing out they were 8-5 in his 3rd year because they were....and pointed out they were ranked a couple times just prior to his arrival because they were....

I'm not arguing just sharing information.

UK should aspire to winning more games than they lose, it's really hard to compare one program to another.

 

[Global Havok]

I don't know WTH you're talking about as having proven. But THIS thread isn't the first time I've heard about Joker's "roster attrition". As I said, It's my favorite LPT football fan cop out.


You can't oversign enough kids in each class to get to graduation with 25 in each class. You only get 85 total scholarships. Even with what you probably consider normal attrition, you'd need 30-40 more in total. A big football graduating class is 20+.


The dropout rate for college students is high, period. Less for athletes on scholarship since their way is paid. The factors have less to do with which sport is played. Whatever the hell "continuity" is, the mind of each kid is the same. It's about discipline, academics, hard work, competition, etc. Some wanna tough it out, others don't. The national trend is high for those who don't want to.


I'm pointing out that YOU are talking outta both sides of your mouth. According to your data, Joker's responsible for retaining Pappaw's kids, but Stupes isn't responsible for retaining Joker's kids. I guess because that position fits your agenda.

I'm not a Joker fan--on balance, he couldn't coach either. But that just made him a TYPICAL LPT football coach. LPT fans think he was horrible. No, he was almost as good as Pappaw, and so far, he looks almost as good as Stupes.


Where do four classes come from? Are you still assigning Joker the results from an extra recruiting class?

You're gonna have to start posting your data. They're increasingly suspect.

LPT Football: We often make this stuff up as we go along...

Sorry if I misunderstood you, or took your statement out of context, but you said:

"IIRC, LPT never had an attrition issue WHILE Joker was there. Stupes ran off a lot of his predecessor's guys."

UK did indeed have an attrition issue WHILE Joker was there.

You are attempting to frame an argument for a point I never made. I haven't placed the blame for the attrition on any one person. In fact, I haven't placed the blame for it at all. I've only said that it has and is happening, and that it is part of the reason the UK roster has been, and is in such bad shape.

Yes, I get that 20 is a large graduating class in college football, I also know that between the 09 and 12 classes UK was averaging losing 15 a class. The four classes come from the 09-12 classes. Again, I don't care who recruited them, only that the attrition happened, and UK is suffering for it, though it may be in the program's best interest in the long run.

 

[Mike'sMarbles]

Beating Spurrier may turn out to be the worst thing that could have happened to Stoops long term. When I look at UK's schedule next year, at this point, I just can't see 5 wins, much less 6. They could very easily win the 3 mid-major games, beat Vandy, and that's it. In that scenario of going from 5 wins to 4, it'd be a tough sell for Stoops to recruits and the UK fans that his program is improving. And really, I think 4 wins is the most likely scenario. They'll have to pull off another fluke like SC last year just to get to 5.

 

[Global Havok]

Speaking of attrition, I found this thread from an old Razorback discussion involving Petrino... Note the guy's post with actual data from 2006-2008. (The "Pappaw Years".)

The SEC teams at the top of that list were around 40% roster attrition over that timeframe. Pappaw himself was at 34%.

If we use the LPT guy's data above of 22 players attrited from the 2009 and 2010 classes (55 total commitments), the ratio is 40%. Or 6% higher than during Pappaw's best years at LPT.

Joker's roster attrition = LPT smokescreen

LPT Football: Next excuse...

That thread shows that roster attrition negativity impacts programs.

And again, I don't know why you continue to harp on which coach had losses from another coach's class. That was never an argument being made.

However, what do you think happens to UK when their roster suffers so many losses? They already get the lowest ranked classes in conference, and once half of their best 25 or so recruits are gone, they are left even farther behind taking guys even they wouldn't have taken before. Another program may have something similar happen, but their first 25 kids are better than UK's first 25, and the guys that they would use to fill their vacancies are better than those UK would use.

Have you found Petrino's attrition numbers?

 

[Bill Derington]

I looked back as far as I could on mizzou a website and the 3 or 4 seasons prior to pinkells arrival they won 3-4 games a year. 98 or 99 they finished 8-4. I couldn't see the results for 97.

I was simply stating that mizzou and UK share similarities in being the furthest removed from most of the talent. Not a great deal of history working for them. And the talent they get needs to be developed.

 

[cardsp]

That thread shows that roster attrition negativity impacts programs.

And again, I don't know why you continue to harp on which coach had losses from another coach's class. That was never an argument being made.

However, what do you think happens to UK when their roster suffers so many losses? They already get the lowest ranked classes in conference, and once half of their best 25 or so recruits are gone, they are left even farther behind taking guys even they wouldn't have taken before. Another program may have something similar happen, but their first 25 kids are better than UK's first 25, and the guys that they would use to fill their vacancies are better than those UK would use.

Have you found Petrino's attrition numbers?

Yes he just lost 11 players to NFL

 

[zipp]

...Are you just arguing for the sake of arguing?...

So, do you ask that question of every guy debating you?

LPT Football: We like to control the microphone...

 

[CardFan1130]

They were though, that's the whole point. Pinkell went 5 years without getting above .500 at mizzou.

False. Making stuff up and hoping no one will fact check him.

 

[Mike'sMarbles]

Missouri started playing football in 1890. They're 663-534-53 (55.3%)
Kentucky started playing football in 1881. They're 588-598-44 (49.5%)

Not only does Missouri have a better winning percentage all-time, but UK had a 9 year head start and Missouri still has 75 more wins.

My take: These two programs are not on the same level either currently or historically.

 

[Steelers2012]

Missouri started playing football in 1890. They're 663-534-53 (55.3%)
Kentucky started playing football in 1881. They're 588-598-44 (49.5%)

Not only does Missouri have a better winning percentage all-time, but UK had a 9 year head start and Missouri still has 75 more wins.

My take: These two programs are not on the same level either currently or historically.

Because I was curious:

Louisville started playing football in 1912. They did not field teams in 1917-1921 and 1943-45.
All-time, Louisville is 496-449-17 (52.2%).

 

[Bill Derington]

Beating Spurrier may turn out to be the worst thing that could have happened to Stoops long term. When I look at UK's schedule next year, at this point, I just can't see 5 wins, much less 6. They could very easily win the

So, do you ask that question of every guy debating you?

LPT Football: We like to control the microphone...

I do when it seems they are just trying to argue. I pretty plainly stated UK should emulate mizzou. I didn't say we were at that level they are. Then after showing that Pinkell struggled worse than stoops in his first 2 years yea it seems like some are just arguing for the sake of arguing. Kinda like you

 

[Bill Derington]

Missouri started playing football in 1890. They're 663-534-53 (55.3%)
Kentucky started playing football in 1881. They're 588-598-44 (49.5%)

Not only does Missouri have a better winning percentage all-time, but UK had a 9 year head start and Missouri still has 75 more wins.

My take: These two programs are not on the same level either currently or historically.

Are you serious, I mean c'mon man.
This is to the point of absurdity. I said UK should emulate mizzou, I still think they should.
It's not that big of a deal mike. I agree mizzou is on a different level than UK right now, that was kind of why I said emulate them.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

For years I've read posts from Uk fans looking to follow the blueprint of teams like Arky/South Car/A&M/Mizzou...

I don't think the posters mean any disrespect to those programs - the posters just aspire to win, I get it.

It's just the gap between those programs and Uk is a lot further than so many of them realize. I'm not trashing these goals or concepts.

But when you start to do some fact finding you see the accomplishments those types of programs have had are actually far more than most people realize. To get to the product those programs bring to the table, it takes a lot more than just a "time-frame" and hope.

I realize it's a lot easier to say let's go out and be like one of these teams instead of saying let's go out and be Alabama.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

I do when it seems they are just trying to argue. I pretty plainly stated UK should emulate mizzou. I didn't say we were at that level they are. Then after showing that Pinkell struggled worse than stoops in his first 2 years yea it seems like some are just arguing for the sake of arguing. Kinda like you

You also plainly stated Missouri didn't have a winning record under Pinkell until his 5th year and I simply pointed out that was false. If you are going to get this offended when you make an incorrect statement and get the facts provided to you then do more homework before making posts and stop making incorrect statements.

Or lighten up.

You were wrong about something. Get over it.

 

[Bill Derington]

Well no kidding, Stoops isn't calling me asking me what or how to game plan. Missouri is not where it's at by loading up on top ranked talent every year. They recruit solidly, red shirt and develop talent. Plus they have solid coaching, being a state not loaded with talent nor steeped in tradition I didn't realize it was going to be such an apparent edgy comment when I made it.

 

[Bill Derington]

You also plainly stated Missouri didn't have a winning record under Pinkell until his 5th year and I simply pointed out that was false. If you are going to get this offended when you make an incorrect statement and get the facts provided to you then do more homework before making posts and stop making incorrect statements.

Or lighten up.

You were wrong about something. Get over it.

I wasn't edgy about it, I admitted I was wrong, but the point remains. Pinkell struggled his first two years, succeeded his third then struggled again afterwards for a couple of years. I wasn't upset at you're comment.
Someone said Stoops is no Pinkell, and he may not be, but he is ahead of where he was after year 2. They both inherited bad teams, we'll see if their arc of similarities continue. I hope they do, but it remains to be seen.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

Well no kidding, Stoops isn't calling me asking me what or how to game plan. Missouri is not where it's at by loading up on top ranked talent every year. They recruit solidly, red shirt and develop talent. Plus they have solid coaching, being a state not loaded with talent nor steeped in tradition I didn't realize it was going to be such an apparent edgy comment when I made it.

I'm not even saying it's a horrible concept or an edgy comment I just cleaned up a little mess left on aisle 4. I didn't call the police on you.