Nobody pressured Jurich into hiring Petrino. He was his own man.
If U of L is being pressured into hiring somebody, it's further evidence we've got the wrong people in charge. If you're the boss, the buck stops with you...
Louisville vs Cuse Game Thread
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If U of L is being pressured into hiring somebody, it's further evidence we've got the wrong people in charge. If you're the boss, the buck stops with you...
This is correct. The rule is in place to cover all circumstances. You don't get to redefine it when you THINK you can predict the future...
So you're comparing hiring Payne with Pitino and Petrino? Just making sure I've got that stright...
That's the good news for us as fans.
If the UofL admin hires a new coach at the end of the season we'll know the school is still focused on winning.
If they don't hire a new coach, we'll know they're not focused on winning. It's something else. They won't be able to hide it from us if Kenny's coming back next year, like they're hiding their plans right now. They have to show some of their cards. We still won't know what their plan is, just that it's not to win.
Then we'll know and can make an educated decision about whether we want to continue any form of support.
Exactly, we will know at the end of the year.
The plan was NCAA tournament in year 3. Payne absolutely botched Year 1 and 2 giving his supporters zero cover.
The plan was NCAA tournament in year 3. Payne absolutely botched Year 1 and 2 giving his supporters zero cover.
I think the plan was probably to steer the program back into a Golden Era where former contributors to the success of the program could feel a part of it again. Put an end to wire taps and things like that.
Through the forner player/diversity angle. A player centric "family" of an old era creating a new era with winning being built up over time. Bring in players that might be of that mold.
Don't think there was a time table or win requirement at the top of a list. But they probably expected a better run than this.
And they might get more time because this thing cuts deep for some important people. We shall see!
Through the forner player/diversity angle. A player centric "family" of an old era creating a new era with winning being built up over time. Bring in players that might be of that mold.
Don't think there was a time table or win requirement at the top of a list. But they probably expected a better run than this.
And they might get more time because this thing cuts deep for some important people. We shall see!
Payne's time here has just been beyond terrible. I don't know if your average UofL fan out on the street realizes how bad he's been. Record breaking bad. Not seen in a century type bad.
He has broken virtually every negative record you can name from number of losses to most double digit blowout losses to worst defense to most fast break points given up etc.
Add to that his cluelessness on and off the court with his bizarre comments, press conferences, handling of situations like Koron, and making Ty-Laur look like some sort of entitled fool with the tights comment. There's just way too much bad on the negative side of the scale.
I still can't understand how his supporters want him back for round 3 of atrociousness. I don't know about them but it hurts my sports soul enduring these horrible seasons and going into every game thinking the Cards will lose.
He has broken virtually every negative record you can name from number of losses to most double digit blowout losses to worst defense to most fast break points given up etc.
Add to that his cluelessness on and off the court with his bizarre comments, press conferences, handling of situations like Koron, and making Ty-Laur look like some sort of entitled fool with the tights comment. There's just way too much bad on the negative side of the scale.
I still can't understand how his supporters want him back for round 3 of atrociousness. I don't know about them but it hurts my sports soul enduring these horrible seasons and going into every game thinking the Cards will lose.
Yeah, it may turn out one of the main goals of UofL's admin is to have a squeaky clean program for several years, sacrificing winning. Fans can't tolerate this level of losing but football is doing well so maybe they just ride it out for another 2-3 years with Kenny. Sucks for fans but we'll all either accept it or move on.
I'm still hoping for a coaching change but I have no idea. Glad we only have to wait another 6 weeks or so to find out.
I think most of the fans are knowledgeable enough to know it's horrible basketball. That's why the UofL admin isn't going to be able to pull the wool over people's eyes with a "good progress this year" comment. People are going to walk away from another year of this in droves, IMO. Whether the UofL admin cares is anybody's guess. At least, I have no clue about their motivations.
Exactly. Winning may be down the list somewhere. Not off it, just not at the top. We'll see!
It’s mostly saving face. The faster you fire him, the more obvious was the mistake.
And then there’s the entitlement nonsense. Based on Payne’s status as former ball player, his race, or that he’s the only AA coach at U of L, he deserves more time.
We also have no money.
Any and all of that will go against the fact that he will never be able to coach at this level of competition, and that he’s tearing down the program. It’s not clear cut that he won’t get a third year…
I think we all agree the decision to hire KP has many layers. I believe the plan was logical based off the reality on the NCAA stuff. Based off all the various comments by KP and Heird over the past 2 years I believe they thought the NCAA was going to ban them in a Year 1 and potentially Year 2.
I would guess 80 percent of us thought the same. It explains the approach in Year 1. I didn’t lose my mind in Year 1. They couldn’t afford another mistake with the NCAA.
Year 2 he lost me immediately. No excuses, a designed soft non conference and a down ACC it was set up for him to succeed. He failed for me that is it.
However from the leadership perspective the plan is still in play. Winning basketball in Year 3. So here the question. Hypothetical-next year with KP they make the NCAA tournament and go the sweet sixteen. Top it off 2025 recruiting is picking up steam? Is it a good hire?
I would guess 80 percent of us thought the same. It explains the approach in Year 1. I didn’t lose my mind in Year 1. They couldn’t afford another mistake with the NCAA.
Year 2 he lost me immediately. No excuses, a designed soft non conference and a down ACC it was set up for him to succeed. He failed for me that is it.
However from the leadership perspective the plan is still in play. Winning basketball in Year 3. So here the question. Hypothetical-next year with KP they make the NCAA tournament and go the sweet sixteen. Top it off 2025 recruiting is picking up steam? Is it a good hire?
For majority of fans it's always going to circle back to wins. Every post. And I get it.
Fans were built on backs of a winning product. And that could ultimately be the bottom line if this is over yr 2 for the people in charge.
There is another elephant in the room fans trivialize. UofL core mission back in the 70s and 80s, - diversity. Beard, Wes Unseld, Dr of Dunk. UofL was out in front with diversity core mission. With that, winning! The winning more absorbed by fans than the core mission- diversity and inclusion.
So here you are. NIL, Portal, and KP. If he returns consider it indefinite. And if you hate it, you need to walk away.
We find out in the Spring.
Fans were built on backs of a winning product. And that could ultimately be the bottom line if this is over yr 2 for the people in charge.
There is another elephant in the room fans trivialize. UofL core mission back in the 70s and 80s, - diversity. Beard, Wes Unseld, Dr of Dunk. UofL was out in front with diversity core mission. With that, winning! The winning more absorbed by fans than the core mission- diversity and inclusion.
So here you are. NIL, Portal, and KP. If he returns consider it indefinite. And if you hate it, you need to walk away.
We find out in the Spring.
If things played out that way I would say that Payne can coach, he just needed more time to learn to win. And that the plan, though it brought new lows to the program, appears to be the correct one after all.
It wouldn't erase these past 2 seasons but I wouldn't want him fired like I do now because it shows massive progress and upswing both with his coaching and for the program.
Let me say this, I wanted Payne to succeed here. If he had shown significant improvement this season and was at least something like 14-9 at this point then I would be a tad more convinced that he needed more time. His historically bad tenure here just screams otherwise. As bad as it sounds, if Payne had been closer to "normal" bad I could maybe see it.
But seeing other first year, and even other first time coaches outperforming year 2 Payne convinces me he isn't capable of such a drastic turnaround in year 3.
Yeah I don't think you're going to see a Year 3 and not see a Year 5. This off-season is really going to tell the direction. We may not know for sure why, but if Kenny is retained we'll know where fan goals of winning basketball games stand. The UofL admin can't kick the can down the road again and hope to keep all these angry fans on board. This is the decision point.
There will be no turnaround next year. If he keeps the majority of these guys he still need to talk some juniors and seniors to climb aboard the worst team in power 5 just to maybe approach .500. He had the same type of schedule Brohm had and couldn't take advantage of it. If he stays I can't wait to see the schools they schedule to dumb down the competition enough to get 12 wins.
As much as no one wants it to happen, I think Payne’s future will be decided simply on the basis of progress. If he wins five more games next year—assuming Year Three—he probably gets Year Four, etc etc.
It’s a significant dummying down of what this program used to be, but let’s face it… Dummying down has happened and is underway everywhere around us in most pursuits. Nothing is objectively as good as it used to be. U of L basketball would fit with that.
There is no magic number of wins by a predetermined year. Payne will have to survive from year to year. And like it or not, U of L will try to set him up to be “successful” in that context—meaning U of L will be complicit to keeping him in the head coach’s job…
It’s a significant dummying down of what this program used to be, but let’s face it… Dummying down has happened and is underway everywhere around us in most pursuits. Nothing is objectively as good as it used to be. U of L basketball would fit with that.
There is no magic number of wins by a predetermined year. Payne will have to survive from year to year. And like it or not, U of L will try to set him up to be “successful” in that context—meaning U of L will be complicit to keeping him in the head coach’s job…
I don't think what they do with the schedule will make a difference with the fans. Our fans are basketball savvy enough to tell the quality of the program. The big question is whether fans matter at all at this point. We'll find out at the end of the year!
To me it is all about the roster. How in the world do you know what is coming back in this new world? There is zero chance he comes back if key players transfer. It can all change overnight. You decide to keep him players starting leaving as bad as it is now with fans good lord.
The progress and failure in any season used to be a good barometer for the next year. With the player movement that is no longer the case. You can be great one year and miss the tournament the next year. There are only a couple coaches have been able to avoid wild swings.
The progress and failure in any season used to be a good barometer for the next year. With the player movement that is no longer the case. You can be great one year and miss the tournament the next year. There are only a couple coaches have been able to avoid wild swings.
Payne also needs to shake up his staff if he comes back because these guys aren't getting it done. Thought it was a huge mistake just promoting guys from within instead of going out and getting some real solid experienced assistant coaches or another relentless younger recruiter.
That statement is probably more right than wrong or he would have gotten the heave-ho before Christmas. It's sad that "progress" is measured by being competitive against other bad teams.
Is that—players returning and incoming—something you know immediately at season’s end?
Isn’t immediately at season’s end when you make a change if you’re making one?…
No-the people making the call probably don’t know who is coming back if they keep him or fire him. Now they need to have a good idea what the players are planning either way. There is a lot of behind the scene stuff that goes on with transfers. They can get a good feel. If KP supporters and contacts want to save him they better get him players if they keep him. Whatever he wants he better get.
From strickly a KP perspective any progress made this year is irrelevant if young players transfer and he has to start over.
Even if players stay - if Payne gets (deservedly) canned - pretty sure they open up a 4-6 week window for them to transfer based upon the coaching change
I have no insider info, but to me the selection of coaches has always screamed "we don't want scandals" more than "we want wins".
I don't know about Jamieson, but I don't see Manning or Nolan cutting corners or doing anything dodgy. These are all guys who have been around for a long time, probably not looking to move up other than Nolan and I just can't see him doing anything shady to move up.
Again it's just a guess on my part, it could be something totally different.
I think that's right. When Saban left, I think I read that his players had 30 (?) days of Portal, even though the Portal was in a dead period.
The window that is created when a coach is fired doesn’t matter because if he is fired it will be during the portal anyway.
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