Exactly. There is no crime but to let others on here tell it, this horrible scandal is nothing short of death penalty infractions waiting at the end of it.
Yeah, it's not hurting us at all. No big deal. Nothing to see here.
- Thread starter Kratz
- Start date
I know this is somewhat off topic, but here's what I find interesting (because I've been trying to figure out how our season imploded so completely right after the WF game). This Wakileaks stuff broke in the few days we had between the WF game and the Houston game. We came out in Houston and could not have played a more uninspired game if we tried. Same can be said of the KY. game. Last night I re-watched the Fl. State game and could not believe that the team that played Fl. St. was even remotely related to the team that laid down at Houston. Internally, could this WF crap have been such a distraction for the players and coaches, feeling that they would be flogged by the media once all the info came out, that the heart was taken out of our football program? I just can't help but feel that this crap and our season collapse are somehow joined at the hip.
Now, more on topic, Galloway needs to be fired and maybe Todd Grantham as well. Pitrino may have plausible deniability but Galloway and Grantham have already been named. It's time the program show accountability. Wouldn't care if we forfeited the WF win. TJ needs to come out and show we've cleaned house and made amends, and then apologize for this obvious lack in judgement. We keep claiming we are committed to doing things the right way. Time to quit talking and do it.
Now, more on topic, Galloway needs to be fired and maybe Todd Grantham as well. Pitrino may have plausible deniability but Galloway and Grantham have already been named. It's time the program show accountability. Wouldn't care if we forfeited the WF win. TJ needs to come out and show we've cleaned house and made amends, and then apologize for this obvious lack in judgement. We keep claiming we are committed to doing things the right way. Time to quit talking and do it.
So in order to show that we are committed to doing things the right way, we need to immediately fire two coaches who have never had any issues before for what amounts to a misdemeanor violation? No suspension, no fine, no pay freeze - just simply can them?
Yeah, that'll make us look consistent
I'll be perfectly honest here. This is going to sound bad and I'll get bashed on here for this.
With each hour that has passed in the last two days, I have warmed up more and more to the idea of being ok with this image we have. Maybe it wouldn't be so bad to harness this bad boy image we have in sports. Have a little scandle here and there while being top ten in all sports. Dismantling our opponents every year. Having some of the best coaches in college sports (Petrino, Pitino, McDonnell, Walz) all the while paying them well because, yes, we are one of the most profitable athletic programs in the country.
How bad ass would it be if we go out and bust LSU's ass in a couple weeks ? Make a statement after all of this negative hype around our program. We should wear all black in the bowl game.
With each hour that has passed in the last two days, I have warmed up more and more to the idea of being ok with this image we have. Maybe it wouldn't be so bad to harness this bad boy image we have in sports. Have a little scandle here and there while being top ten in all sports. Dismantling our opponents every year. Having some of the best coaches in college sports (Petrino, Pitino, McDonnell, Walz) all the while paying them well because, yes, we are one of the most profitable athletic programs in the country.
How bad ass would it be if we go out and bust LSU's ass in a couple weeks ? Make a statement after all of this negative hype around our program. We should wear all black in the bowl game.
Don't want the bad boy image. Want the Bama image. The opponent lines up across from you knowing that you're better than they are, better coached than they are, and don't need scandals to do it.
The bad boy image never leads to good things in the end. Ask Miami. Theyre still trying to recover from paying their price for being bad boys.
I actually loved the image we projected on the field during Petrino 1.0 here. Here we are, here's what we're going to do. Stop us. Immensely complex offense. Could run 5 different plays out of the same formation. Brohm or LeFors was going to pick you apart, or Michael Bush was going to run you over. On defense, you knew Elvis was coming and he was going to get you at some point. Plus on top of all that, the team had balls. Ran a fake punt at WVU in our own territory. Now we have 4th and goal from the 1 against UK and kick a field goal with the most electrifying player in college football.
The bad boy image never leads to good things in the end. Ask Miami. Theyre still trying to recover from paying their price for being bad boys.
I actually loved the image we projected on the field during Petrino 1.0 here. Here we are, here's what we're going to do. Stop us. Immensely complex offense. Could run 5 different plays out of the same formation. Brohm or LeFors was going to pick you apart, or Michael Bush was going to run you over. On defense, you knew Elvis was coming and he was going to get you at some point. Plus on top of all that, the team had balls. Ran a fake punt at WVU in our own territory. Now we have 4th and goal from the 1 against UK and kick a field goal with the most electrifying player in college football.
I'm not actively seeking to be the Miami Hurricanes of the 80s. But there's so much effort nowadays at political correctness and sanctimonious behavior (often disguising other behaviors) that you can't subscribe to anything else without looking like the 'Canes.
And we have an AD who has the clout and political capital to simply say "I'll judge for myself". He takes the high road on just about every process that doesn't involve human sacrifice. If you're effective at that--which he is--it's as it should be. You have a person's life and career in your hands; you shouldn't fire someone you think is mostly innocent just to look good. When Jurich stops short of that, he can look bad against the "correct and sanctimonious" backdrop. But he's doing the right thing, and his 20-year track record here has proven he always tries to do the right thing regardless of how he looks in the short run.
If you're a fan who's more susceptible to peer pressure and public opinion, as great as Jurich is, he may not be the best AD for you. But I couldn't care less about that garbage, and I love the guy. If I could realistically nominate him for sainthood, I would...
Ok, read it and the "newest" scandal was Means in 99. OMG, a coach went to a strip club and got fired for it. You mean they hold their staff accountable? Nice thought...........
How about Bama under Saban? You have anything on them other than they line up, impose their will on you and win every weekend?
No I don't. They are unrelated. AS I said elsewhere, the Katina stuff is bad. No doubt about that. but the shooting and this ridiculous Wake stuff? how are they related? What does it "add up" to, exactly?
That article is 5 years old. We can't even have one week to celebrate a Heisman trophy winner.
Alabama has had 4 players arrested this yr as of September. All starters.
Again, the reality is all programs have issues.
Again, the reality is all programs have issues.
Can Robinson, Alphonse Taylor, Hootie Jones, and Tim Williams. All 4 arrested this year for Alabama. Charles Baldwin dismissed, obviously he isn't a good player by their standard.
Are they bad guys? Of course not. But enough of looking at Alabama as if they don't have a few problems under Saban. Let's not rewrite history to support a narrative.
Are they bad guys? Of course not. But enough of looking at Alabama as if they don't have a few problems under Saban. Let's not rewrite history to support a narrative.
The truth is Alabama is as dirty of a program as it gets. Saban is no saint and anyone who believes he is just wants to look the other way. I know UofL is having their own issues right now, but in comparison, there is no other football program with more NCAA sanctions and scandals than Alabama but apparently that's what you want UofL to be like Jeff.
Why is that?
Why is that?
A time line that you want UofL to be like?
August 1995: In its first-ever NCAA penalty for rules violations, Alabama is placed on probation for three years, banned from a bowl appearance, ordered to give up 26 scholarships over three years and forced to foreit eight victories from 1993.
November 1995: NCAA appeals committee sides with Alabama, lifting one year of probation and restoring nine scholarships.
May 1996: NCAA strips the football program of one scholarship for failing to disclose player loans that were guaranteed by a Birmingham tire and wheel dealer.
November 1996: NCAA Infractions Committee admits making a major mistake in its handling of the Langham case, publicly apologizes to a school official wrongly accused of ethical lapse. Stallings retires days later, setting the stage for the hiring of defensive coordinator Mike DuBose as head coach.
February 1999: Alabama avoids NCAA sanctions following claims a former assistant basketball coach, Tyrone Beaman, tried to create a slush fund for recruits. NCAA warns severe penalties could result from any violations over the next five years.
May 1999 — Head coach Mike DuBose holds a news conference to deny rumors of improper conduct with a former secretary. DuBose later admits his denial was misleading and the school pays $360,000 to settle the woman’s sexual harassment claim.
December 1999 — DuBose receives two-year contract extension after Alabama beats Florida 34-7 to win its first Southeastern Conference football title since 1992.
November 2000: DuBose resigns and coaches his last game, a 9-0 loss to Auburn that caps a 3-8 year, Alabama’s worst season in more than four decades.
December 2000: TCU coach Dennis Franchione accepts the Alabama job after other high-profile candidates withdraw from consideration.
January 2001: Following days of rumors posted on Internet chat rooms, a newspaper in Memphis, Tenn., The Commercial Appeal, reports that a Crimson Tide booster is said to have paid a high school coach $200,000 to steer a top recruit, Albert Means, to Alabama.
February 2001: Alabama receives a preliminary letter of inquiry from the NCAA.
August 2001: Federal grand jurors in Memphis indict former Trezevant High School head coach Lynn Lang and former assistant Milton Kirk on charges of trying to sell Means to seven schools.
Sept. 6, 2001: Eight days later, Alabama receives official notice of alleged rules violations from NCAA.
Feb. 2, 2002: Alabama football receives five years probation, including a two-year postseason ban, because of a recruiting scandal in which boosters were accused of paying money for prep players.
Oct. 17, 2007: University bookstore employee discovers questionable textbook charges by women’s track and field athlete, prompting internal investigation.
Feb. 20, 2009: Alabama appears before NCAA Committee on Infractions.
June 11, 2009: The NCAA places 16 athletic programs, including football and men’s basketball, on three years of probation for misuse of free textbooks student athletes obtained for others using their scholarships.
No thanks.
http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/spor...of-alabama/article29055703.html#storylink=cpy
August 1995: In its first-ever NCAA penalty for rules violations, Alabama is placed on probation for three years, banned from a bowl appearance, ordered to give up 26 scholarships over three years and forced to foreit eight victories from 1993.
November 1995: NCAA appeals committee sides with Alabama, lifting one year of probation and restoring nine scholarships.
May 1996: NCAA strips the football program of one scholarship for failing to disclose player loans that were guaranteed by a Birmingham tire and wheel dealer.
November 1996: NCAA Infractions Committee admits making a major mistake in its handling of the Langham case, publicly apologizes to a school official wrongly accused of ethical lapse. Stallings retires days later, setting the stage for the hiring of defensive coordinator Mike DuBose as head coach.
February 1999: Alabama avoids NCAA sanctions following claims a former assistant basketball coach, Tyrone Beaman, tried to create a slush fund for recruits. NCAA warns severe penalties could result from any violations over the next five years.
May 1999 — Head coach Mike DuBose holds a news conference to deny rumors of improper conduct with a former secretary. DuBose later admits his denial was misleading and the school pays $360,000 to settle the woman’s sexual harassment claim.
December 1999 — DuBose receives two-year contract extension after Alabama beats Florida 34-7 to win its first Southeastern Conference football title since 1992.
November 2000: DuBose resigns and coaches his last game, a 9-0 loss to Auburn that caps a 3-8 year, Alabama’s worst season in more than four decades.
December 2000: TCU coach Dennis Franchione accepts the Alabama job after other high-profile candidates withdraw from consideration.
January 2001: Following days of rumors posted on Internet chat rooms, a newspaper in Memphis, Tenn., The Commercial Appeal, reports that a Crimson Tide booster is said to have paid a high school coach $200,000 to steer a top recruit, Albert Means, to Alabama.
February 2001: Alabama receives a preliminary letter of inquiry from the NCAA.
August 2001: Federal grand jurors in Memphis indict former Trezevant High School head coach Lynn Lang and former assistant Milton Kirk on charges of trying to sell Means to seven schools.
Sept. 6, 2001: Eight days later, Alabama receives official notice of alleged rules violations from NCAA.
Feb. 2, 2002: Alabama football receives five years probation, including a two-year postseason ban, because of a recruiting scandal in which boosters were accused of paying money for prep players.
Oct. 17, 2007: University bookstore employee discovers questionable textbook charges by women’s track and field athlete, prompting internal investigation.
Feb. 20, 2009: Alabama appears before NCAA Committee on Infractions.
June 11, 2009: The NCAA places 16 athletic programs, including football and men’s basketball, on three years of probation for misuse of free textbooks student athletes obtained for others using their scholarships.
No thanks.
http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/spor...of-alabama/article29055703.html#storylink=cpy
Youve done it now, Cue.
Typing Bama more than 3 times will summon a certain Cards......errrr Bama fan, who'll continue to shat on the Cards.
Typing Bama more than 3 times will summon a certain Cards......errrr Bama fan, who'll continue to shat on the Cards.
Probably, but I'll never see it. That guy has been on ignore for a decent amount of time now.
You guys keep playing the "everyone else is doing it card". I acknowledged Means in 99. in a previous post. All you've got since then is books being used by students and students getting arrested? So you're validating my point that there's gonna be some bad students. You keep missing that IT'S OUR STAFF getting us in trouble.
Yeah, I can live with students getting books. I can't live with STAFF being the reason we get in trouble more than once.
Rick Pitino and Sypher. Ricks doing this while kicking guys off the team for not doing right thing.
Sypher tries to Blackmail Pitino causing national embarrassment to the school.
Strippers/prostitutes including underaged girls in the dorms for 4 years.
Petrino 1.0. No explanation necessary for what he did here, then Atlanta, then Arkansas.
Petrino 2.0 We hire him back, find out in season 3 that they're getting and using info that should have been turned in when obtained. Petrino says he has no knowledge of it. A few weeks later the AD says yes it happened.
There you go. All STAFF STUFF. I could go back and find the number of kids that have been arrested since 2000, but there's no sense in that. Kids get arrested at every school.
COACHES AND STAFF are not the sole cause of national embarrassment and ethics problems at every school. Very few in fact. Baylor, Penn St, Miami, Tennessee. That's the kind of company we're keeping right now. Granted, our issues aren't as nearly as large as Baylor, Miami or Penn St, but it's still ALL CAUSED by the staff.
Yeah, I can live with students getting books. I can't live with STAFF being the reason we get in trouble more than once.
Rick Pitino and Sypher. Ricks doing this while kicking guys off the team for not doing right thing.
Sypher tries to Blackmail Pitino causing national embarrassment to the school.
Strippers/prostitutes including underaged girls in the dorms for 4 years.
Petrino 1.0. No explanation necessary for what he did here, then Atlanta, then Arkansas.
Petrino 2.0 We hire him back, find out in season 3 that they're getting and using info that should have been turned in when obtained. Petrino says he has no knowledge of it. A few weeks later the AD says yes it happened.
There you go. All STAFF STUFF. I could go back and find the number of kids that have been arrested since 2000, but there's no sense in that. Kids get arrested at every school.
COACHES AND STAFF are not the sole cause of national embarrassment and ethics problems at every school. Very few in fact. Baylor, Penn St, Miami, Tennessee. That's the kind of company we're keeping right now. Granted, our issues aren't as nearly as large as Baylor, Miami or Penn St, but it's still ALL CAUSED by the staff.
Oh the irony. (Psst, since we're talking about a UT fan "irony" may be above his intelligence grade, but you get my drift.)
GO CARDS - BEAT EVERYBODY!!! God Bless America!!!
Kratz you are cherry picking what embarrassments you can live with. Other people don't distinguish this way.
Trying to say you want to be like Alabama is ridiculous comparison anyway from a performance perspective.
"I wanna be like the most elite program of our era in any sport!!!!!" while simultaneously ignoring their "moral issues"....
Sounds great. Down here on the planet earth the rest of us don't share that shooting for the moon wish of turning into Alabama.
Trying to say you want to be like Alabama is ridiculous comparison anyway from a performance perspective.
"I wanna be like the most elite program of our era in any sport!!!!!" while simultaneously ignoring their "moral issues"....
Sounds great. Down here on the planet earth the rest of us don't share that shooting for the moon wish of turning into Alabama.
Well, on planet Jeff I want a top notch program that really tries to do the right thing, the right way.
Every school has kids that get into trouble, including us. It's unavoidable. But when all of your scandals involve your staff, that's taken it to a different level.
Yep Bama had some players get in trouble. How did the staff handle it? Are they in any trouble now? The only "scandalous" thing I can remember involving the staff is that Saban didn't want to allow the 5th year senior to transfer to UGA. The kid wound up transferring anyway. I think Saban runs a pretty tight ship. When kids get out of line, he disciplines them. Hell, he even cleaned up Lane Kiffin. You never hear of any issues involving the staff, and it is a staff that had Kiffin for a few years.
The worst scandals that we all can remember off the top of our heads all had one thing in common: THE STAFF WAS INVOLVED. Baylor, Penn St., SMU and the death penalty, Miami, UK's hoops team in the late 80s. I'm NOT saying we're as bad as any of these, but we do have the common thread of it being staff issues.
I'm sorry that you don't share my concern that we may be headed down that same path, and I want to get it corrected before it gets too far. But it is fact that all of our recent scandals are staff involved, not just a few bad kids.
Every school has kids that get into trouble, including us. It's unavoidable. But when all of your scandals involve your staff, that's taken it to a different level.
Yep Bama had some players get in trouble. How did the staff handle it? Are they in any trouble now? The only "scandalous" thing I can remember involving the staff is that Saban didn't want to allow the 5th year senior to transfer to UGA. The kid wound up transferring anyway. I think Saban runs a pretty tight ship. When kids get out of line, he disciplines them. Hell, he even cleaned up Lane Kiffin. You never hear of any issues involving the staff, and it is a staff that had Kiffin for a few years.
The worst scandals that we all can remember off the top of our heads all had one thing in common: THE STAFF WAS INVOLVED. Baylor, Penn St., SMU and the death penalty, Miami, UK's hoops team in the late 80s. I'm NOT saying we're as bad as any of these, but we do have the common thread of it being staff issues.
I'm sorry that you don't share my concern that we may be headed down that same path, and I want to get it corrected before it gets too far. But it is fact that all of our recent scandals are staff involved, not just a few bad kids.
Given the fact that the "few plays" which were offensive plays made it to an offensive coordinator then passed to the defense, would lead me to believe that petrino knew about it. How would that kind of information make it from the offensive staff to the defensive staff and somehow miss petrino? I find that extremely hard to believe unless all the other coaches are the ones solely responsible for game preparation, but with petrino as head coach, that too would be extremely highly unlikely.
The most plausible explanation I've heard to explain how Petrino could have possibly not known is this from Adam Lefkoe on the Afternoon Underdogs: Ronnie Galloway gets this inside info from Elrod (confirmed), then Galloway either: A) Gives Grantham a vague heads up (without revealing actual source of "hunch"), "Hey Todd, from an old buddy, I just have a hunch Wake Forest may try play A, B, or C.; just give it some thought in your defensive gameplan...wink". From this, Galloway covers the team's potential of defending these plays should they be run, while not implicating anybody, including his WF source. or... B) Galloway confides in Grantham that he got it on good source that WF may have a few new plays in the Louisville gameplan, and they both knowingly use that inside information to gameplan against Wake. In both of these cases, either Galloway or Galloway AND Grantham look like great game planners in Coach Petrino's eyes, improves UofL's chances of winning, and enhancing their standing with Petrino as coaches (all coaching positions are highly competitive "what have you done for us lately" positions), all while also protecting Petrino from possible culpability should the shady source be revealed.
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We don't know the depth and scope of what was communicated and shared. We don't know that it wasn't a 15-second offhand remark made by one coach to another. We don't even know that they didn't find the info humorous because it was obvious on film or it wasn't needed to beat a hapless opponent.
We come at these discussions with all sorts of scenarios in our minds that are largely filling in the blanks around what we know with certainty. Was it as I described, or was it hours of scheming around a conference table with unauthorized info in the center? We don't know, so it's ridiculous to organize a trial and select jurors...
We come at these discussions with all sorts of scenarios in our minds that are largely filling in the blanks around what we know with certainty. Was it as I described, or was it hours of scheming around a conference table with unauthorized info in the center? We don't know, so it's ridiculous to organize a trial and select jurors...
I fully believe that to be a good possibility also Steelers. I said kind of the same thing in another post. It's well known that Bobby is pretty hands off with the defense.
Jurich hinted as much when he said Galloway shared it with a couple of the defensive coaches.
The perception problem is 2 fold.
Jurich gave a piss poor statement. Very vague and ending basically with a "so what? FU"
Petrino will be judged on his past. Fact is fact. The man has been caught lying more than once.
I work in Quality Management. It's important that we send out quality parts to our customers. You can send them 999 good parts and they won't think a thing about it, that's what they expected. But when you send them the 1 bad part, they let you know all about it. I explain it to my employees like this: "The hardest thing to build, and the easiest thing to tear down is your reputation."
I think the same could be said for this type of situation. Petrino did some stuff to tear down his reputation. It's very hard to rebuild. Even if he truly didn't know anything, there will be a segment that says "he's lying. He's always been a liar".
Jurich hinted as much when he said Galloway shared it with a couple of the defensive coaches.
The perception problem is 2 fold.
Jurich gave a piss poor statement. Very vague and ending basically with a "so what? FU"
Petrino will be judged on his past. Fact is fact. The man has been caught lying more than once.
I work in Quality Management. It's important that we send out quality parts to our customers. You can send them 999 good parts and they won't think a thing about it, that's what they expected. But when you send them the 1 bad part, they let you know all about it. I explain it to my employees like this: "The hardest thing to build, and the easiest thing to tear down is your reputation."
I think the same could be said for this type of situation. Petrino did some stuff to tear down his reputation. It's very hard to rebuild. Even if he truly didn't know anything, there will be a segment that says "he's lying. He's always been a liar".
Almost terrorizes me to admit the similarity, but I was too (in quality) in a former life. That training teaches you the significance of a false accept, so you err with your systems to the side of ensuring that doesn't happen.
But that's just the opposite of what you do in HR. There, you'd rather make damn sure you find a legit issue when you make a determination that affects someone's family, career, and income. Jurich bends over backwards to support his coaches, and that's as it should be. If anyone's reputation is affected, the most affected is his own...
Make no mistake Jurich has taken a hit over his statement. But he was never viewed in the same light as Petrino. Jurich has wiggle room for a mistake or two. BP doesn't
That's what I'm saying, though.
If Several Calipari players come up having taken money, then I'm not sure Cal gets a pass regardless. You'd say (and rightfully so) it's his job to prevent this sort of stuff.
To each their own, but I'd be hard-pressed to give a pass regardless if it were my coach.
So glad you stumbled over here to let us know what you think. Maybe head back to raftards now where your opinion counts for something.
If suspension (just announce Galloway is suspended) and or fines is more appropriate then I'm fine with that. I, like a lot on here, am really suffering from scandal fatigue. Let's clean this up. Our brand has taken such a beating that we may have to go above and beyond what other programs might do in a similar situation.So in order to show that we are committed to doing things the right way, we need to immediately fire two coaches who have never had any issues before for what amounts to a misdemeanor violation? No suspension, no fine, no pay freeze - just simply can them?
Yeah, that'll make us look consistent
You guys are still getting tons of run on this. Chris Russo actually talked about you guys today on the radio and he spends like 20 minutes a week on NCAA Football. Louisville football is being talked about - you can't buy that publicity. If I were a U of L fan, I'd be doing cartwheels right now.
I respectfully disagree. The thought that UofL 'needs' to do more than another program is rooted in esteem issues with the ways others view the program and, some need to think that 'they' would do so favorably.
Those that are going to look to bash UofL will do so regardless. Haters gonna hate.
Exactly. As a proud University of Louisville fan and one who grew up listening to the sub-human redneck trash UK fans that spewed hatred and racist insults towards Denny Crum and his early teams here for no other reason than they were damn good and mostly black. I can tell you that while no one wants to root for a program that is dirty, this latest BS is only newsworthy (as far as Louisville is involved) because we now live in the 24 hour news/sports cycle on everyone's iPhone. Haters gonna hate.
UofL Athletics have been having incredible success across the board for the last 5 years like few schools have seen before and the national perception is one of "how the hell?" Urban commuter school with only basketball traditional has become a Top 20 Football program, a Top 10 Baseball program and now has the Heisman Trophy winner. Don't think that makes it popular for outsiders to try to tear it down? Especially when we make the news for something negative.
Not saying there have not been some things that have occurred around here that are certainly cringeworthy (mostly the Minardi Hall fiasco) but people need to quit worrying about how the rest of the country views us or don't and root for another team. You'll soon be back when you realize the shiny new school you decided to back never had the luster you sought.
Go Cards. L1C4.
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