Who Plays in the Governor's Cup?...

[zipp]

Heard Howie mention on the radio yesterday that an "idea" is being floated--or advanced by WKU--to have the GC match up the state's two best teams each year. Presently, that's U of L and WKU.

Philosophically, it's hard to argue against that proposal. The Toppers are located in Kentucky and entitled to play for an honor that refers to them as well as the slapd!cks. Better to rename the trophy if you wanna exclude Western.

Logistically, I'm not sure how you pull it off. You'd have to schedule an at-large team to play the team left out of the GC, currently LPT. The easiest scheduling would be for that to always be a home game for the at-large team. (And for that reason, such a team may be easy to find.) But who gets the home site for the GC game? For capacity reasons, could the game just rotate between Louisville and Lexington with a split gate? Picture U of L and Western playing in LPT's stadium--the indignity!

I kinda like the idea for a few reasons... It improves our schedule in most years. It helps WKU, and it gets them onto our schedule without having to add a game. And it better relegates LPT to their proper place in the football hierarchy. I'd post a poll if we could still do that.

LPT Football: As long as Eastern is excluded...

 

[Mike'sMarbles]

What criteria could they use to determine who the 2 best teams in the state are? I know everyone "knows" that UofL and WKU are the two best programs. But how do you declare that in an unbiased, data/fact driven way? I don't know if I'd trust pre-season polls, though they certainly show it correctly this year with UofL in the Top 25 and WKU receiving votes.

 

[zipp]

What criteria could they use to determine who the 2 best teams in the state are? I know everyone "knows" that UofL and WKU are the two best programs. But how do you declare that in an unbiased, data/fact driven way? I don't know if I'd trust pre-season polls, though they certainly show it correctly this year with UofL in the Top 25 and WKU receiving votes.

I didn't address that, but it's obviously a central issue. Maybe an RPI rating, but when? The year before (which sounds too far back)?

Just said I like the idea, not that I have the issues worked out.

LPT Football: Don't use attendance either...

 

[nccardfan]

Zipp: Don't use your brain either....

 

[Mike'sMarbles]

I didn't address that, but it's obviously a central issue. Maybe an RPI rating, but when? The year before (which sounds too far back)?

Just said I like the idea, not that I have the issues worked out.

LPT Football: Don't use attendance either...

Yeah, I wasn't trying to jump on you for it, I was just curious about the possibilities and wondered what kind of fair system they could put in place.

I don't think going back to previous season would be fair. Sooner or later UK is going to have a season like when Bill Curry finally went to a Bowl. I don't think Western should get penalized for that kind of dumb luck the next year.

 

[mwatson61]

The Governors cup was commissioned as the trophy to go to the winner of the UofL vs UK game period! Any talk of including WKU is wishful thinking on WKU's part. While I agree they are a more worthy opponent at this time, if they wanted to be included in an annual game with either UofL or UK, due to conference scheduling, unfortunately for them that ship has sailed. The best they can hope for now from either school is a game every few years.

 

[zipp]

No "ship has sailed"... I'm not too sure how long LPT is on our schedule in most sports.

And who doesn't want to be playing the guy annually who may be U of L's next coach?

LPT Football: He may be here first...

 

[zipp]

Zipp: Don't use your brain either....

Lawrenceburg's finest on another alien subject.

LPT Football: He's halfway here...

 

[nccardfan]

Where's the satisfaction in beating the Hilltoppers? They're my 2nd favorite team. Now beating the kitties, a SEC school, that's a different story.

 

[zipp]

Where's the satisfaction in beating the Hilltoppers? They're my 2nd favorite team. Now beating the kitties, a SEC school, that's a different story.

You no longer have anything to gain playing LPT in just about any sport. And the only sport you DO have anything to gain, you don't beat them often enough. It's a lose-lose proposition for us, and it has been for years.

At least if WKU beats you in football, you're losing to a respectable team, and you're helping a program that you wanna help. I'm not sure why this is so hard for rational people to understand.

LPT Football: That's why we don't understand it...

 

[nccardfan]

I'm sorry but you are delusional if you think Western is respected in football outside the state. Even the basketball program, which was once considered a top program has lost some of their luster.

 

[tkdcoach]

The ship really HAS sailed.

Evidenced by the SEC/ACC powers powering the GC to an end-of-season game that is part of the overall product that also includes the other traditional rivalries.

No way in hell that is going to change now. Literally no way.

No "ship has sailed"... I'm not too sure how long LPT is on our schedule in most sports.

And who doesn't want to be playing the guy annually who may be U of L's next coach?

LPT Football: He may be here first...

 

[zipp]

I'm sorry but you are delusional if you think Western is respected in football outside the state. Even the basketball program, which was once considered a top program has lost some of their luster.

WKU has received poll votes in the 2016 AP and USA Today preseason polls. In the latter, they outpolled BYU--and Pitt and Duke from our own conference. Boom!

They've also got a basketball commitment from the #11 kid in the 2017 class. Boom! Boom!

 

[zipp]

The ship really HAS sailed.

Evidenced by the SEC/ACC powers powering the GC to an end-of-season game that is part of the overall product that also includes the other traditional rivalries.

No way in hell that is going to change now. Literally no way.

That game was put there because it was SEC/ACC, and it's rivalry weekend.

Let's not act like anyone outside Kentucky really gives a damn about that football game. The ACC tracks it because it's almost always going to be an ACC win. If Louisville and LSU wanna start calling themselves "rivals" and playing that last week every year, methinks everyone will be glad to see it except for the few people around these parts who can't let go of the past.

Playing slapd!cks pulls down our schedule, and it's a no-win situation. No big deal when you win, and a really big deal when you don't. You're a little crazy if that appeals to you.

LPT Football: And we'd rather play an FCS school to get that 6th win...

 

[ShortCreek]

Zipp, "Not having anything to gain" was always Rupp's and Joe B. Hall's excuse for not wanting to play the Cards and other state schools. Now that the Cards have advanced the entire athletic program we don't walk away from the rivalry, that makes zero sense, sorry! My theory, continue to play them in any sport they wish to play in - and, kick their ass on a yearly basis!

 

[nccardfan]

WKU has received poll votes in the 2016 AP and USA Today preseason polls. In the latter, they outpolled BYU--and Pitt and Duke from our own conference. Boom!

They've also got a basketball commitment from the #11 kid in the 2017 class. Boom! Boom!

You're talking about a school who's biggest rival is Middle Tennessee and wasn't a Div 1 Football conference team until 2008. Also WKU football was ranked in the AP for the first time in their history last year. Doughertys gone but hopefully they can continue the success. The reason they got the basketball commitment is because they got a new coach not because of recent success. That's your problem you only know half the story, sometimes less and you try to make a big story out of it. Sorry, you failed again.

 

[zipp]

You're talking about a school who's biggest rival is Middle Tennessee and wasn't a Div 1 Football conference team until 2008. Also WKU football was ranked in the AP for the first time in their history last year. Doughertys gone but hopefully they can continue the success. The reason they got the basketball commitment is because they got a new coach not because of recent success. That's your problem you only know half the story, sometimes less and you try to make a big story out of it. Sorry, you failed again.

Arguing in opposition to facts is never gonna be a winner for ya, Lawrenceburg.

And a lotta that same ish coulda been said about us a decade ago. As our beloved ex-Prez says, gotta look at that trajectory thingy.

LPT Football: We have trajectory too!...

 

[zipp]

Zipp, "Not having anything to gain" was always Rupp's and Joe B. Hall's excuse for not wanting to play the Cards and other state schools. Now that the Cards have advanced the entire athletic program we don't walk away from the rivalry, that makes zero sense, sorry! My theory, continue to play them in any sport they wish to play in - and, kick their ass on a yearly basis!

Joe B. and Uncle Adolph weren't wrong about their strategy. They were wrong because of how good they were (or were not) WRT U of L. Speaking of state schools, why don't we schedule home-and-home series in all sports with Murray State and Eastern Kentucky? Cuts both ways.

It makes perfect sense to drop LPT in all sports, not just football. I've already compiled the list of reasons, and I'll do it again if you wanna constructively have that debate. A little OT for this thread, but let me know.

LPT Football: We're OK with ending the series...

 

[Mike'sMarbles]

I'm more interested in discussing the merits of changing the Governor's Cup to be the 2 best teams in the state than re-hashing "should we drop UK".

Heck, it's not an issue if UK would just start being the 2nd best team in the state. How hard could that be? It's not like WKU has tremendous resources and tremendous talent. Maybe changing the Governor's Cup to having to earn it would finally get UK to start trying to improve.

Ultimately I want to do what's best for UofL. If it can be fairly determined that WKU is the 2nd best team in the state, and it'll help our SOS, I'm all for looking into this more.

 

[zipp]

Facts? What facts? You wouldn't know one if it hit you in the face, but then you have to be bent over. Just because you continually spin things and always "try" to get the last word in doesn't come close to making you right. We all just get bored of your antics. Also, he's not the ex-prez yet.

Info out-of-date again. One Board has accepted his resignation. The other has said they would as well if they're seated. As Prez, Doc is gone.

Stick with Lawrenceburg trivia.

LPT Football: Still clutching onto a GC invite...

 

[zipp]

I'm more interested in discussing the merits of changing the Governor's Cup to be the 2 best teams in the state than re-hashing "should we drop UK".

Heck, it's not an issue if UK would just start being the 2nd best team in the state. How hard could that be? It's not like WKU has tremendous resources and tremendous talent. Maybe changing the Governor's Cup to having to earn it would finally get UK to start trying to improve.

Ultimately I want to do what's best for UofL. If it can be fairly determined that WKU is the 2nd best team in the state, and it'll help our SOS, I'm all for looking into this more.

And WKU is entitled to that. Hell, they beat LPT the last two times the slapd!cks had the guts to play. And while I'm not gonna debate the "resources" and "talent" metrics too hard, there's little question that Brohm is a far better coach.

Louisville and Western in that last game is more compelling football right now. We're starting to see too many empty seats at this game showing that it's even losing its luster in state.

LPT Football: Count on us for about 1,500 tix...

 

[Mayoman]

To truly determine the best.....play a round robin format......UK vs WKU first game of the season; UofL vs WKU 2nd game of the season. and UofL vs Uk last game of the season and best record wins the GC.

But that would be too simple and rain on some folks parade of basking in the unproven superiority in their mind rather than proving it on the field of play. Since these schools are the only Div 1 CFB teams in the state....only they get to play for the GC. Issue solved. If there is a 3 way split of 1-1 results....than tiebreaker could be total points scored.

 

[PushupMan]

That game was put there because it was SEC/ACC, and it's rivalry weekend.

Let's not act like anyone outside Kentucky really gives a damn about that football game. The ACC tracks it because it's almost always going to be an ACC win. If Louisville and LSU wanna start calling themselves "rivals" and playing that last week every year, methinks everyone will be glad to see it except for the few people around these parts who can't let go of the past.

Playing slapd!cks pulls down our schedule, and it's a no-win situation. No big deal when you win, and a really big deal when you don't. You're a little crazy if that appeals to you.

LPT Football: And we'd rather play an FCS school to get that 6th win...

The media folks at ESPN definitely care, and they are the ones writing the checks. They own the rights to both the SEC Network and the ACC Network. You can expect the GC football game to become a noon Saturday after Thanksgiving tradition on either the SECN (when UK is hosting) and ACCN (when UofL is the host).

You can guarantee that ESPN wants that ACC-SEC matchup, whether WKU is better than UK, UofL or both. That was made perfectly clear when ESPN recently gave the ultimatum of each ACC school playing at least 10 games against P5 schools every year.

If WKU wants in the mix playing P5 schools, they will have to earn it the same way UofL did - by building up their athletic department and waiting for the next round of P5 expansion.

 

[zipp]

Well, ESPN and the conferences want good games to broadcast although LPT's participation mostly runs counter to that goal. Have a hard time believing that U of L vs. [insert SEC team not named Vandy or LPT] wouldn't be a pretty good substitute on an annual basis.

I also like Mayo's idea with a little higher stakes...

You round robin U of L, WKU, and LPT every three years. (I don't think U of L and LPT want both teams on their schedule every year.) The two years in between are home-and-home for the two best teams. That means if you fall to 3rd position, you're out of contention for the GC for three years. Which is exactly where LPT belongs for the time being.

LPT Football: We'll pick up another FCS team those years...

 

[tkdcoach]

Because it was put there by the conferences it shall remain there. You're just being a goofball and ya know it.

That game was put there because it was SEC/ACC, and it's rivalry weekend.

 

[zipp]

I always like constructive feedback.

The LPT game was on the schedule long BEFORE we entered the ACC. The goofball kinda doubts that game was considered a feather in our cap by the ACC as far as admission and what we bring to the table.

And the goofball also thinks that if you took a survey of our fellow ACC schools and fans, they'd tell you that a U of L-LSU or U of L-Tennessee game is much more compelling football than U of L-LPT. (A series with Tennessee would also allow LPT and Vandy to play a mostly meaningless end-of-season game and call themselves "rivals".)

Let's make that a goofball trying to think outta the box.

LPT Football: And we may occasionally win a game on Senior Day...

 

[2330859]

No discredit to WKU, but the GC was established as a rival game between UL & UK; it was not established as some determination as to the best football team or program in KY ................it just turned out that way.

As WKU continues to grow in football, they need to use their own influence to negotiate a game against UK, UL and/or both ............but they should not try to intrude into the existing UL vs. UK game.

For what it is worth; WKU would have beaten UK last year, as well as this year if given a chance. I do not think they would have prevailed against UL in either last year or this year.

 

[zipp]

No discredit to WKU, but the GC was established as a rival game between UL & UK; it was not established as some determination as to the best football team or program in KY ................it just turned out that way...

It may have STARTED as a determination of the best football team in KY, but it's hardly what it is today. Hell, it takes a good measure of luck for LPT to beat Eastern KY presently. WKU is probably 2 TDs or more better than LPT.

And IMHO, it's not anymore about how the GC was established. You're talking about tradition. Do we play Cincy and Memphis anymore in any sport? In addition to returning most of their ticket allotment at PJCS, I don't believe LPT sells out this game anymore at their place. And our own fans aren't interested enough to pick up their unsold tickets. As our schedule overall has improved dramatically, this game has become a rivalry in name only. [Unless you consider something like Tennessee and Vandy a compelling rivalry...]

...As WKU continues to grow in football, they need to use their own influence to negotiate a game against UK, UL and/or both ............but they should not try to intrude into the existing UL vs. UK game...

Reality is that we can't schedule both teams home and away, and WKU henceforth insists on that much as we did while we were developing. When the ACC goes to nine games at some point, you simply can't schedule both those games annually. What Mayo and I have proposed is a good plan that keeps both schools in the rotation based on merit.

Too many of you guys are locked into the past. Cincy, Memphis, WKU...they're all better football programs than LPT. For some reason, you get off playing a BCS doormat with one of a precious few games that you have control of on the schedule. Makes less and less sense each year.

LPT Football: Nonsense...

 

[PushupMan]

Reality is that we can't schedule both teams home and away, and WKU henceforth insists on that much as we did while we were developing. When the ACC goes to nine games at some point, you simply can't schedule both those games annually. What Mayo and I have proposed is a good plan that keeps both schools in the rotation based on merit.

LPT Football: Nonsense...

The reality is that we COULD schedule both teams home and away if we wanted to do so. Even with the ACC mandate that we must play either 9+1 or 8+2 beginning in 2019, then we still have room to schedule both UK and WKU in every season except for 2023. In that year, we'd only have room for one of them if we are playing a 9+1 schedule, but we would have room for both if we were playing an 8+2.

For the future we have the following in the non-conference:
2017: Purdue (in Indianapolis), Kent State, Murray State, at UK
2018: Alabama (in Orlando), Indiana State, UK, plus room for one more which could be WKU either home or away.
2019: Notre Dame, at UK (last game scheduled in this series right now), plus two more games, one of which could be WKU either home or away
2020: @Notre Dame plus three more games
2021 and 2022: no non-conference games currently scheduled in either season
2023: Indiana (in Indianapolis), Notre Dame, plus two more games
2024: Indiana plus three more games
2025: @Indiana plus three more games
2026 and 2027: no non-conference games currently scheduled

So my point is that there certainly is room to schedule both WKU and UK going forward if we wanted to do so. We just choose not to do so.

 

[2330859]

Zipp ...the criteria that you are applying to this argument is selective. I am certainly no fan of UK, but the rival between these two in-state schools exceeds any pairing between any other in state schools.

Just because UK does not sell out their stadium, or UL fans do not buy up all the Commonwealth unsold seats is not a fair indication of fan interest. You spend enough time on this board to see for yourself that references to UK are probably a 1,000 to 1 over any other state school.

I share in your distaste of UK, as well as the disrespect for their football tradition (more accurately their lack of tradition), but to minimize the interest in our rivalry with UK is not a realistic position.

 

[nccardfan]

Facts: the Governors Cup is a trophy awarded to the victor of the annual college football game between the University of Kentucky and the University of Louisville. It is also a reference to the rivalry itself (it is not intended to be a championship game for the best team in the state). If it were we shouldn't have played during the crapthorpe era. For those who may not know, UK currently has the longest streak at 7 wins. So it seems we need to keep the series going until we have a definite advantage, wouldn't you think Kev from Jeffersonville?

 

[zipp]

...For those who may not know, UK currently has the longest streak at 7 wins. So it seems we need to keep the series going until we have a definite advantage, wouldn't you think Kev from Jeffersonville?

The mark of a true slapd!ck: quoting stats from 70 years ago.

LPT Football: Lawrenceburg's finest...

 

[zipp]

With 8+2 or 9+1, we should be able to arrange five home-and-away games each year among them. The slappies count as one of those.

Adding WKU outright makes 11 games, and they're not playing at PJCS every year. So, now you have 5 or 6 home games in those 11 games. Then what do you do when Alabama and the TV network come along with a neutral site game? Fine if it's in a year when you're scheduled for six home games already. Otherwise, you're just getting five home games which no marquee P5 school wants. (Many still want 7...)

Sure you can schedule LPT and WKU anyway, but you no longer have scheduling flexibility, enough home games, and/or the opportunity to play a big time opener whenever it's available. All because you're hanging onto the nutsack of a BCS bottom feeder--which makes zero sense.

LPT Football: At least we've still got balls...

 

[zipp]

Zipp ...the rival between these two in-state schools exceeds any pairing between any other in state schools.

Just because UK does not sell out their stadium, or UL fans do not buy up all the Commonwealth unsold seats is not a fair indication of fan interest. You spend enough time on this board to see for yourself that references to UK are probably a 1,000 to 1 over any other state school.

I share in your distaste of UK, as well as the disrespect for their football tradition (more accurately their lack of tradition), but to minimize the interest in our rivalry with UK is not a realistic position.

A disconnect for many of our fans is the fact that U of L is now a national brand across all sports. That's certainly how Jurich thinks. Monitoring interest within the State boundaries, while waning or flagging, is not consistent with that image and goal. I've already mentioned the example of how other ACC teams see us. You honestly think that they wouldn't want to see us matched up against a better SEC opponent? Let's start asking them.

And why would you wanna play someone you disrespect? I 100% agree with that sentiment which underpins my belief that we've outgrown them. I used to attend St. X, and I respected Trinity big time, which made them an honorable rival. I have zero respect for LPT and don't wanna be seen on the same field and court with them. THAT is a natural sentiment--and not the viewpoint that I disrespect them and can't wait to play them. Again, makes no sense.

LPT Football: By that criterion, we can't find 12 teams to fill out a schedule...

 

[Knucklehank1]

The UofL vs UK wasn't metered last year because SEC Network isn't metered by Nielsen. However in 2014, the game was the 3rd highest rated in its time slot, trailing Ohio St v Michigan and Clemson-USCjr, but besting WVU v Iowa St, Northwestern v Illinois and Cincy v Temple. So it appears that at least a few people care about the game.

Of course the UofL v UK basketball game is always one of the top rated games on the ESPN family of networks.

 

[zipp]

The UofL vs UK wasn't metered last year because SEC Network isn't metered by Nielsen. However in 2014, the game was the 3rd highest rated in its time slot, trailing Ohio St v Michigan and Clemson-USCjr, but besting WVU v Iowa St, Northwestern v Illinois and Cincy v Temple. So it appears that at least a few people care about the game...

Congrats for finishing in 3rd place in the noon game line-up. Bested some real snoozers there. I wonder if Louisville-Tennessee would have been more attractive? (No, I don't...)

...Of course the UofL v UK basketball game is always one of the top rated games on the ESPN family of networks.

That's why it's scheduled this year on a weeknite where Utah Valley was last year.

Own who you are.

LPT Football: Somebody still acts like our little brother...

 

[Knucklehank1]

Congrats for finishing in 3rd place in the noon game line-up. Bested some real snoozers there. I wonder if Louisville-Tennessee would have been more attractive? (No, I don't...)

That's why it's scheduled this year on a weeknite where Utah Valley was last year.

Own who you are.

LPT Football: Somebody still acts like our little brother...

So Tennessee has shown a strong interest in playing us? Didn't realize that. Do you have a link that shows where they are interested? Anyways I thought your original point was that we should sub out UK for WKU.

As for basketball, the ratings speak for themselves. Unfortunately you have no data to back your argument, only your own rhetoric.

 

[CardVille]

The only way to resolve it is to play round robin with UofL, UK and WKU and determine based on that. This is how they award the Commander In Chief trophy, round robin between Army, Navy and Air Force.

 

[nccardfan]

The only way to resolve it is to play round robin with UofL, UK and WKU and determine based on that. This is how they award the Commander In Chief trophy, round robin between Army, Navy and Air Force.

You totally miss the point. Zipperle has no interest in playing in a round robin governors cup, he's only trying to find ways to support his thinking of dropping the kitties off the schedule. And food for thought, it doesn't matter that HE has no respect for LPT. You don't refuse to play them, you whip their butts on the playing field.

 

[Rollem Cards]

Someone said "outside of Ky, a UL/WKU game has no interest". Newsflash!!! Neither does the UL/uk game. The nation knows we will/should kick their ass. Everybody else does. uk is not considered a worthy FB opponent by anybody.

As a long time ticket holder, I do know that the UL/uk game has lost some luster with me/us. (Mostly the "us" part). Especially now that it screws with Thanksgiving weekend. The family members who go don't view uk as a "rival" anymore in FB. (They also feel the opposite in BB of course)

But again, as time goes on and you get older, for some, other things become more important than attending the uk game on a holiday weekend. The 55" HDTV has a lot of pulling power.

Apparently we are not the only ones feeling like this because, as was said, the stadium is NEVER full anymore, here or there.

If the game were replaced with a Tenn, LSU, etc, it would change some thinking I'm sure. But uk is going to continue to lose drawing power IMO. (Nothing in the last 60 years refutes that)

The down side is, we'd have to hear "we'd have won this year!" forever. Regardless our record.