You are just trying build a case in advance to bash Mack when next season doesn't go well by implying he has better talent than what he actually will have to work with.
What Are Your Expectations For Coach Mack And Team This Season?
- Thread starter shadow force
- Start date
You are just trying build a case in advance to bash Mack when next season doesn't go well by implying he has better talent than what he actually will have to work with.
And you're trying to feather Mack's bed in case he lands hard. See how the non-quantitative approach works?
Last edited:
Speaking of quantitative...
I looked deeper at Pitino's incoming roster in 2001 vs. Mack's next year. It's hard to draw any conclusion about one being better than the other.
Pitino brought back 69% of the minutes played and 62% of the scoring from Crum's final year, an S/M ratio of 0.897. Assuming no one else leaves, Mack will bring back 44% of the minutes played and 40% of the scoring, a ratio of 0.927.
Mack's defenders will say A-HA!!!...Pitino had the advantage. But I don't see it. More players simply returned--they weren't better. In fact, the ratios skew toward Mack's guys. They're better scorers with respect to minutes played, that is, a higher ratio. And they'll get more minutes now that last year's guys have departed.
I did a similar check after Pitino's first year to appreciate the contributions of Pitino's incoming guys. The returnees in 2002 logged 76% of the minutes played and scored 81% of the points, a ratio of 1.071. So, Pitino's returning guys contributed much more than his incoming freshmen in 2002.
These numbers indicate simply that Mack should be OK once the returning guys get more minutes, at least as well as Pitino. It does indicate that their minutes will go up significantly unless a couple of new guys are brought in...
I looked deeper at Pitino's incoming roster in 2001 vs. Mack's next year. It's hard to draw any conclusion about one being better than the other.
Pitino brought back 69% of the minutes played and 62% of the scoring from Crum's final year, an S/M ratio of 0.897. Assuming no one else leaves, Mack will bring back 44% of the minutes played and 40% of the scoring, a ratio of 0.927.
Mack's defenders will say A-HA!!!...Pitino had the advantage. But I don't see it. More players simply returned--they weren't better. In fact, the ratios skew toward Mack's guys. They're better scorers with respect to minutes played, that is, a higher ratio. And they'll get more minutes now that last year's guys have departed.
I did a similar check after Pitino's first year to appreciate the contributions of Pitino's incoming guys. The returnees in 2002 logged 76% of the minutes played and scored 81% of the points, a ratio of 1.071. So, Pitino's returning guys contributed much more than his incoming freshmen in 2002.
These numbers indicate simply that Mack should be OK once the returning guys get more minutes, at least as well as Pitino. It does indicate that their minutes will go up significantly unless a couple of new guys are brought in...
Last edited:
Dude, when are you going to get off of Pitino and Jurich's scrotum? You have a creepy picture of Jurich as your avatar and probably a picture of Pitino on your ceiling above your bed.....how old are you?
PITINO and JURICH are gone FOREVER
Again, I'm not bringing Pitino's name into the discussion. It's Mack's defenders who do/did that. I'm simply responding to their comments. Assume it's OK for me to reply?
As far as my avatar, he's the best AD in the biz. I like backing the best.
Thanks for asking...
Agreed. It's just that I'm willing to give him more than just this one upcoming season to prove himself.
I don't disagree, and I'm seldom the guy to recommend quick action on anything. That said, Mack's being paid $4 million to hit the ground running. It will be in his best interests to look like he's doing that...
If the issue is paying coaches based on their performance, then you would have to agree Pitino was grossly overpaid. Did you ever complain about it? Also let's not forget Mack is coming in to clean up a program that was hammered by the NCAA. What Pitino had to contend with in his rebuilding effort was nothing in comparison.
This is a fair analysis. By what you’re saying here it means that Mack gets about 2 years to show his ability IF he gets guys to return for their junior/senior year and he compliments that with a solid 2019 class. This seems like you’re giving him a fair shake. However, it disturbs me that you keep using this phrase Mack defenders. It sounds like you’ve already put him in your collage of clowns when he is simply the new guy on the block. We should all be on the same team here.
You're changing the subject, but Pitino was paid in line with the best coaches in the game--which is what he is/was.
I'm not defending the compensation for the coaching profession--they're all overpaid compared to the value they provide. But that's the game you're in, and you can't change that without being at a competitive disadvantage.
By comparison, Mack's being paid more than John Beilein, and the latter has accomplished far more. Mack's being paid sl. less than Izzo, and Izzo's won multiple championships. Not that much less than Bill Self. That's what I'm talking about...
Actually, I'm not quite saying what you're concluding I said. My remarks were to set the bar for next season. More than one person here thinks Pitino had been dealt a better hand to perform immediately in 2001 or in the short run. I don't agree with that--the numbers don't say that. To continue the analogy, Pitino was perhaps dealt five "cards" and Mack was dealt four with an opportunity for another card. He has to go out and get that card.
And maybe I should define my terms better... If you're speaking about Mack optimistically that is rooted mostly in hope, I'm calling you a "defender". I'm esp. using that term if you're trying to support him in a debate like this one--arguments like "Pitino had an advantage." That's unfounded IMO. And if you keep beating that drum, you start to look less objective and credible.
It's OK to not have a strong opinion about Mack. And I'm not being biased by the clown show and Tyra. I love having Petrino here, but I didn't have a strong opinion about Peter Sirmon, and I don't now about BVG as coordinators. There are too many optimists here because you're fans. That fact alone, however, shouldn't trump your better judgment. You pull for these guys to succeed, but you don't predict it...
Mack has had nowhere near the resources the coaches you named, especially Pitino. His salary now is probably a minimum of what we would pay someone. He needs to now step up and earn it. Yes, Pitino was considered upper echelon but his performance was far from it. He was even owned by a guy down the road whose coaching skills we mock. Bottom line is Jurich paid Pitino because of the amazing amount of revenue we brought in. His compensation was obviously not linked to performance in terms of achievement on the court.
The analysis omits the impact of the scandal Mack must follow opposed to Rick having no scandal to follow.
Amazing stuff. Truly.
Scandal? What Scandal? Amirite!?!?!?
Amazing stuff. Truly.
Scandal? What Scandal? Amirite!?!?!?
The last sentence sums it up well. The only thing I’ll say is to take the wait and see approach is appropriate, but given the situation we are in have a long leash. We are in a much tougher conference than C-USA and even though we have a talented nucleus, we are more than one player short of a contending team. I’m not gonna speculate on who had a harder situation coming in because I was about 5 years old when Rick got the job, but I think Mack is an important piece in our future. Let’s not fire him if he fails to make the tourney year 1 with a small roster and momentum against U of L basketball. 2 years, maybe fire him if he can’t make the tourney, but i think it would benefit us to ride out this rough time with some consistency and a guy who has proven he can make a school with few prospects a contender.
The term is pay-for-performance, and not how-we-expect-you-will-perform. According to my info, Mack is now the 6th highest paid coach in college basketball.
Pitino won multiple championships at different schools and went to Final Fours and THREE different schools. No chance his performance was not "upper echelon". The latter sentence is just your little-brother-itis problem resurfacing.
Actually, Pitino was paid for both...
Pitino inherited a losing team in Conference USA that couldn't beat Charlotte and Alabama-Birmingham. That's the REALLY amazing stuff...
That analysis cuts both ways. Padgett went 9-9 last year; Crum went 8-8 his last year in CUSA. Now tell me which guy you think left the better team for his successor?...
For those who only read that sentence out of context since I'm sure that wasn't your intention...
"It's OK to not have a strong opinion about Mack. And I'm not being biased by the clown show and Tyra. I love having Petrino here, but I didn't have a strong opinion about Peter Sirmon, and I don't now about BVG as coordinators. There are too many optimists here because you're fans. That fact alone, however, shouldn't trump your better judgment. You pull for these guys to succeed, but you don't predict it..."
And... you contradict yourself with your post.
Since you say those programs aren't so amazing, it wouldn't take much of a turn around to beat those teams.
Good to see you're coming around and you're going to be patient with Mack - since he inherited a program slammed by scandal.
Do the conferences Crum and Padgett played in matter?
2001 CUSA membership:
Cincy
Charlotte
Marquette
St. Louis
DePaul
So. Miss
Memphis
So. Florida
UAB
Houston
Tulane
8-8 against that murderer's row.
Everything's relative. The program Pitino inherited couldn't consistently beat those teams. "Pathetic" is an apt descriptor for what Pitino inherited. That's why a HOF coach was canned...
Again, contradicting your point with the information you share.
The teams Pitino got to compete against were terrible meaning it's an easy turn around for a HOF coach.
It's not like he had to go up against the ACC and Coach K from the jump... like Mack does. Fresh off a scandal.
I've said this before... I AM NOT the one you have to worry about because I seldom over-react without cause. It's the fans who sit mostly silent at this point waiting to see what happens. Even if Mack stumbles outta the gate, I won't be calling for his head...
What are you not understanding about "everything's relative"? Blows my mind...
I said I wasn’t going to speculate on which team was better, but I wanted to point out that Mack has an uphill battle and a tougher conference. Not sure which team is better, but we are losing 4 key players from that 9-9 team. I don’t care about Rick vs Mack discussion. Just trying to temper expectations for Mack year 1 because of what we have coming back and what our competition will be like. We need to give him time. 2-3 years minimum.
I'm OK with discussing how the situations compare, 2001 vs today. Usually, it's Mack's defenders bringing up that comparison to make things easier on him. That's not a concern of mine.
I can't understand how inheriting a losing team in CUSA is an easier situation than what Mack is facing. I understand that the FBI thing is looming, but that's true of Miami and OK State and NC State and other programs signing grad transfers. If a kid wants to sign with a guaranteed clean program, he needs to look outside the Top 30-40...
none. simple math:
Happiness = Reality / Expectation
Happiness equals Reality divided by Expectation.
For those of your bad at math expectation is inversely proportional to happiness. the lower your expectation, the greater your happiness. the higher your expectation is, the lower your happiness. reality doesn't change
try using that everywhere in life. it helps from being upset that you wished for something that in reality was not going to happen
Happiness = Reality / Expectation
Happiness equals Reality divided by Expectation.
For those of your bad at math expectation is inversely proportional to happiness. the lower your expectation, the greater your happiness. the higher your expectation is, the lower your happiness. reality doesn't change
try using that everywhere in life. it helps from being upset that you wished for something that in reality was not going to happen
I think am 18 game win season would be acceptable for this year. He doesn't have much to work with this year and I think he will bring in a really good class for 2019. Mack will consistently bring in high caliber 4 star players and flirt with a few good 5 stars. You made a great decision hiring Mack. It will take time but he will build that program back to where it needs to be.
